Embracing the Waves of Grief: A Journey of Loss, Resilience, and Mental Fortitude with My Mother

Walking alongside someone through their darkest times can reveal the profound impact of empathy and understanding. In a candid and moving conversation with my mother, we navigate the tumultuous seas of grief and mental fitness, sharing our deeply personal experiences of loss. This episode isn't just about sorrow; it's an invitation to comprehend the silent battles many face and the remarkable resilience of the human spirit.

We begin with a raw look at the moments that can break us and the decisions that define us. My mother's poignant recollections of my father's passing, coupled with our family's journey through the haze of bereavement, lay bare the importance of embracing a 'warrior mentality.' Yet, amidst the trials, we find solace in togetherness, in simple gestures and shared memories that help us construct a new normal. Through her eyes, we examine the unpredictable resurgence of grief and the cultivation of gratitude, offering listeners a beacon of hope and connection.

Whether it's through understanding the societal stigmas that often shroud mental health or exploring the dynamics of support groups, this episode holds space for the multifaceted nature of healing. We uncover the need for honest conversations, the personal touchpoints of offering solace to a grieving friend, and resources that can light the way forward. Join us, as we not only share our story but also weave a tapestry of compassion and camaraderie for those walking this path.

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Transcript

Nate Scheer: 0:31

Howdy, I'm your host, Nate Scheer, and welcome to the show. This is Mind Force, the podcast for love, life and learning where your mind matters. Today, we'll be covering the topic of grief. I somehow lured my very own mother to be on the show. Say hi, mom.

Tina Scheer: 0:50

Hello, glad to be here.

Nate Scheer: 0:53

I'm your mother, so we're going to open up and have mother tell us a little bit about herself and how she got interested in the topic of mental fitness.

Tina Scheer: 1:03

Mental fitness. Well, I always wanted to be a school counselor many years ago, and it's something I always wanted to do, but I never saw what was up ahead, that I was going to have to maneuver mental health at the most severe level of losing a loved one that was just so dear to you. It put a whole different perspective in mental health. Yes, I got in it at that particular deep level, not on a journey that I was wanting or they always say, you don't want to be in that club or that group but I found myself and, by the grace of the good Lord, I feel like I have done the best I could and hopefully been there from my children and grandchildren. So it's definitely something. That grief is definitely a journey and to each and everyone their journey is different, but hopefully we can come alongside of each other and be supportive because you'll get through somehow.

Nate Scheer: 2:18

Absolutely. Sometimes you're thrown into it and it's forced upon you. So we've had some great conversations on the show so far, and sometimes I don't get to pick and choose or choose what happens, so this is definitely one of those situations. We're going to start off with a question for me, to make sure this is conversational. So, mother, what's your first question?

Tina Scheer: 2:37

My first question for you, son, is what tools and strategies have you used in your grief journey, as we went through that really tough season in our life and we're still learning and growing from it and healing from it. So what tools and strategies have you used in your grief journey?

Nate Scheer: 2:58

So for me, I think the biggest thing is probably perspective.

Nate Scheer: 3:02

It's pretty easy to get down, but trying to keep everything in perspective and realize there are bigger and greater things that are going on at any given time, and so talking to more people, being more social and understanding what everyone's going on We'll talk later in the show Mother's going to talk a little bit about you never know what people are going through and I think that's a really important thing for me, being a social person.

Nate Scheer: 3:25

Getting out and talking to more people, realizing not that things are better or worse for anybody else. It's not a comparison, it's not a competition, but understanding that there's a lot of different things going on in the world I think really helps you understand that it's not as bad as it could be or things like that, even though that does kind of sound like a comparison but really just understanding there's a lot of things going on and just having that perspective, where you could be without power, you could be in a third world country. There's a lot of different things. You could be going through war and poverty and a multitude of different things. So just trying to keep a perspective of the greater, the greater things going on. So the first question we have for you, mother, yes.

Nate Scheer: 4:09

Where does this journey begin? Tell us the origin for this particular story.

Tina Scheer: 4:15

Well, it was started in, I believe, 2013 because we got the final diagnosis of cancer for my best friend, my husband of 20 years. Nate and I. We were just him and I for a long time and weathered all the storms and I went to college and we kind of grew up together. So definitely have a special place in my heart. And then I got remarried and then, 20 years later, my husband was in the Air Force and then we moved from Clamah Falls, we moved up to Vancouver, Washington, and he had a career at BPA, Bonneville Power, and we were just living our lives and Nate has two younger siblings and so he was kind of out the door already doing college and different stuff and he was in the Air Force. So that was really cool. We got to experience that together. But we get the diagnosis of cancer.

Tina Scheer: 5:26

You just I think it was kind of strange for me because we're fairly healthy and active, you know, don't smoke or drink. You think you're doing all those things. And then we were at home and my husband came out of the office and he said the doctor was just wanting to check. You have some lymph nodes and things that were inflamed and he had had a benign tumor in his lung when he went into the Air Force when he was 20. So 20 some years later. Then he gets diagnosed with well, I'm jumping ahead of the game. He comes out of the office at home, at our home, and he said the doctor says I have cancer. And I always thought in the movies and stuff, if you have something really severe, that the doctor is going to say, hey, you guys need to come in and we need to talk to you. But telling somebody over the phone you have cancer just kind of set me back and I just looked at him and I said what are you talking about?

Tina Scheer: 6:31

And yeah, that was the part of my journey that affected my whole life and my children and my grandchildren and future daughter-in-laws to come and son-in-laws. So that's where that started and I had to make a decision Are you going to fall apart? Are you going to be a warrior? You know, because my relationship to the Lord is the most important thing to me and we, you know, anyway, we had prayer and we prayed over my husband and we had people come over and pray over him. So the journey was are you going to trust and you're going to continue to be brave. So I feel like I've had to keep moving even when I didn't feel like it or I was afraid. So that's where that started and that journey took two and a half years and then two and a half months in hospice and that probably is a whole nother segment there.

Tina Scheer: 7:29

But we had the Red Cross bring Nate home twice and yeah and so there was the hospice care in the home so he could be at home when he passed. So that was a long journey and now it's been seven years. So that's what put me in this particular you know club that you don't want to be in, but now I can be there for other people and I have been feel like God's bless me with being able to talk to other ladies, and I think it's important to be able to share your story and be able to share your loved one too, because you're still living, you're still here in the land of the living, and I think you need to do that for yourself and for your family.

Nate Scheer: 8:15

Yeah, I do find it very interesting how things are different than movies and TV shows and things like that. You see a certain situation play out and you think it would be that way. It's pretty interesting that the people that deal with cancer on a normal basis must become catalyst and things like that Be able to make that phone call and just kind of conduct business that way and move on with their day.

Nate Scheer: 8:39

It's kind of interesting that they see so many cases that people almost stop being a number or just another situation, or maybe, in the amount of time you know, they're multitude of different things that were going on, so I guess there's no way to know what that doctor was going on.

Tina Scheer: 8:53

Yeah, that is true.

Nate Scheer: 8:55

But that is very interesting. So a robo collar Mother, what's one lesson you've learned that everyone should learn in their life?

Tina Scheer: 9:17

One lesson. You only get to live once and I think that I have experienced that, that the times that I've been sad or discouraged. I think of what? What do I want to do with the rest of my life? I get to make new memories. They always talk about the new norm, and early on, that really kind of bug me. It's like, oh, your life is never going to be the same. Yeah, yeah for sure, it's not going to be the same. But what's the new norm and what do I get to do about it? Make new memories. So if there's a holiday, do your traditions that you always have done. Make new ones Anniversaries and birthdays.

Tina Scheer: 9:57

They say that that first year is just really hard. Well, they forget to tell you that it, you know. Maybe the third year, or maybe the fifth year, because now things there should be back to some type of normalcy, but it'll never be the same. So make it your own. Find things that bring you joy. Go do things.

Tina Scheer: 10:16

I've been traveling, even though I was afraid to travel the first time. Or, nate and Adriana, they got me to skydive. I never thought I could do that, so I have a bucket list that I need to get back to. I'm checking things off because truly I'm living not only for myself but for the memory of my loved one that's passed on and to be there for my kids and grandkids and my friends. I mean, I have just been blessed, god has just blessed me and blessed me, and I saw that so much over the course of my life that you know, as I said, my relationship to the Lord is important. So I look for him and the blessings and what he's trying to teach me in something and again, live your best life, do things you enjoy.

Nate Scheer: 11:05

Yeah, I think that's something that's super important and I think people say it a lot of times, but I think when you get to a point where you're able to reflect back on that, you know live for the person and live the way that you believe they you would want you to. I think that's something that's super important because you can imagine. You know, as people that wanted the best for you wouldn't want you sitting around and having terrible days, weeks and whatnot.

Nate Scheer: 11:30

So there is a time to process, a time to grieve and move through that. But staying in that position for too long I don't think any of these loved ones would want you to stay there for too terribly long. So definitely got to figure out a process and be able to move on, which is easier said than done, of course. Yeah, got another question for me.

Tina Scheer: 11:50

Yes, your other question is what got you into wanting to do a podcast?

Nate Scheer: 11:58

So I really wanted to write a book, but I don't feel like I have the best writing skills, and so I'm gonna go with the play to your strengths. I've been talking my whole life, stumbled across some report cards while we were home recently, and every single one of them said I talk too much.

Nate Scheer: 12:16

So I've been talking my whole life. Figured I put that to some good use. It's kind of funny. They try to move me around to different locations, try to get me to stop talking. Just saw a show recently. It was pretty funny. It said it doesn't matter where you put me on, I'm gonna keep talking. So you move me in the classroom, but I'm gonna find a friend and continue my conversation, no matter where it is so really wanted to try to help people.

Nate Scheer: 12:38

I think one of the most difficult things with losing my grandmother and losing people on the way is kind of that feeling of not being able to do anything. So this is something you can try and encourage and help people on the way and being able to help people instead of feeling like the opposite side where you're not able to really do anything.

Tina Scheer: 12:54

So maybe one day I'll write a book.

Nate Scheer: 12:57

Hopefully I'll look back and listen to this recording and this will prompt me to write the book. That'll probably be the next hill to climb, but for now we're just gonna be having really deep and important, very serious conversations and hopefully we'll help some people along the way. So first section of this episode is gonna be understanding grief. So, mother, can you help us define grief and how it connects to mental fitness?

Tina Scheer: 13:24

Okay, let's see. I took some notes because I kind of wanted to remember what I wanted to say, because I think it's so important that, depending on the intensity of the loss, I think that's important as well, because when we think of loss, we think of okay, you lost a spouse, you lost a grandparent, but other losses are included. Right, you lose a job. You could mourn that, you could transition from a divorce, you could. That could be a loss too. That could be something that you're grieving.

Tina Scheer: 13:57

Relationships, so they play a very key aspect in your life and when you have a loss like that, it affects your whole life. It affects your internal dialogue, what you're feeling inside. It affects your physically. That could be anywhere from just feeling achy or a headache or just numb or shocked, and I think those changes affects your whole person, like your emotions. You're kind of like on a roller coaster and how to balance them. So it's impacting not only your home life and if you have a family, you're a mom or a dad, you have to go to work and you have to have those relationships and then your relationships with friends and family. So the mental health part of it is your whole being being able to have that self-care to kind of get back into some type of balance.

Tina Scheer: 14:56

So it's important to discuss the importance of mental health with grief is to get that healing that you need. It's how you perceive it, it's how you process it, and processing is different for everyone. No one should ever tell you you should be over it, because everyone processes differently and coping with it and accepting it takes is different, is different for everyone. It's okay to feel the way you're feeling because grief that's a natural response to how you're feeling, and so let people come alongside of you. Never go it alone and take one moment at a time. I think that's important.

Tina Scheer: 15:42

Even just getting out of bed, just give yourself a time limit. It's okay to have a good cry. Maybe you're gonna cry three or four times a day for a while at the beginning, but at least know that you're getting that out. Speak of the person. Work on the things that with your mental health. If it's something that you can do, even if you're going for a short walk or you're just going out to visit one friend, or just make it. Make it your self care, make it your own, because and don't keep yourself a timeframe just take it one thing at a time, and it will get better, I promise.

Nate Scheer: 16:27

Okay, so you touched on some of the common emotional, physical and cognitive responses that grief, and also a little bit of a connection between grief and mental fitness. Kira, what are your thoughts on how society and culture influence this grieving process?

Tina Scheer: 16:45

I was thinking about this when we were talking about this and I don't think we talk enough about it. And then, when we do talk about it like I'm a school counselor, but even prior to that, when we go to the doctor for all these different things, we go to the doctor when we're sick you know, we sprained our ankle or we have the flu or whatever it is. We go to the doctor to get relief, right. But when it comes to mental health, it seems like it's harder. I think it's harder to jump through the hoops, because even some insurances, when you do try to jump through the hoops, it's harder to. You know, they want a screening and they want to check this.

Tina Scheer: 17:23

And I'm thinking sometimes people just really need to be heard, they just want to be listened to and they don't want the stigmatism that, oh, you're unpredictable or you know, we don't know how to handle that. So I think we need to be comfortable with with people going to the doctor to get mental health, because that's a routine, that's a regular thing and it's okay to seek help or treatment. So I think that that's important. I think we need to embrace it a little bit more and and see the science and maybe co-workers and stuff, and just ask the questions how you doing. Is there anything I can do?

Nate Scheer: 17:59

I mean, ask those questions to seek a little deeper, so yeah, yeah, it is interesting how we've gotten so disconnected, where we're involved with other people's lives to a certain extent, but there's a large portion where it's taboo and you can't pry and you can't ask about things and you can't talk about things, which is really odd because, like you had mentioned, you have the appointments that you have a medical. I mean, if you rolled your ankle or something you'd openly be able to talk about that.

Tina Scheer: 18:29

Oh, I rolled my ankle, they gave me some motrin.

Nate Scheer: 18:31

You know I'm going to start doing physical therapy and then I make sure I stretch myself out and make sure my ankle's good and I'll be good Like you'd open to be able to say that. But when it comes to the building of mental health, you walk into that building or drive anywhere near it. It's like, oh, you don't want to tell anybody, you're going, you don't really want to be seen there.

Nate Scheer: 18:48

You don't want to park there or have anybody you know catch you walking in or out. Unfortunately so, but that's really why we're here.

Nate Scheer: 18:57

I mean, really that's the ultimate goal of these conversations is to just keep having them and hopefully it gets less and less weird and you know, we'll get it all squared away and it can be a part of our lives. Hey, I got my appointment. I'm speaking by the therapist, I'm heading home to talk to this person or that person and really be able to be able to have those open discussions, as long as it doesn't get abused. I think that's another thing we haven't really talked on the show yet. We talked about it briefly with Senior Master Sergeant Arnold, retired, but that's another thing that could be an issue where someone's using it to have a mental health day, to get out of work or different things like that. You need to make sure that we're using it appropriately and things like that, because all it takes is one person to ruin it for everybody.

Tina Scheer: 19:44

So, that's a good point.

Nate Scheer: 19:47

Yeah, you need to be able to take those knees and take a break, but hopefully we're not getting a point where it's getting abused. So the next person or sorry, next part we have is the personal grief experience. So can you share a little bit about your personal experience of grief and how it impacted your mental fitness?

Tina Scheer: 20:06

Yeah, I think I kind of said that I already touched on it a little bit about my personal experience.

Nate Scheer: 20:14

Can you share your personal experience of grief and how it impacted your mental fitness?

Tina Scheer: 20:18

Yeah, I kind of mentioned that earlier a little bit about that personal experience. Kind of what I was thinking was that my experience with grief and mental health was that, being the youngest out of five, I had older siblings that are quite a bit older. So I always experienced like different things. Like I didn't know my grandfathers they passed early when I was young, and then my grandmothers too, so that didn't really. I wasn't close to them and so I didn't have like necessarily close friends or anybody really close to me Experience, maybe from a distance. So I thought I was doing really good, like okay, and I've really experienced, haven't experienced that deep intensity of loss and grief, you know, with the mental health part of it. And then my mom, when she was older, she passed away at 76 and she went in for open heart surgery. So that was the beginning of my mental health with grief. It was something that okay, she went in, she, you know, didn't come out, but it didn't. The procedure didn't work with the open heart surgery and I feel like the good Lord blessed me with giving me peace that she was going to go home and she's going to be in heaven, you know, because I wanted her to go home.

Tina Scheer: 21:41

So I worked through that one and we went to Hawaii that same week because we'd already planned it for a year, and my siblings said go ahead and go. So I had to work through that. Like you get to go on a vacation and I'm numb, you know, it's like I'm in a fog because you know I was close to my mom and so that was that was very interesting. But I had my husband at the time and I had my family and the kids and we were over there. So I was relying on my relationship to the Lord again and just quietness. We would just go walk on the beach. I wouldn't even have to say anything because I just I was processing. So that was the beginning of it.

Tina Scheer: 22:24

And then then I kind of had compound grief a little bit because then it was my. My knees passed away, which I wasn't close, so I helped my sister through that. But my husband at that time had cancer. My brother passed away, so then and that was coming because he had been sick for a long time and then my husband passed and then my dad passed. So do you see where I'm going with this? I mean the compoundness of I've had to work through many different things, but the hardest was my husband because he was younger. I think that it was hard to accept a little bit because it affected my children and grandchildren. And so, yeah, I have been on a journey and I feel like just one day at a time and letting the healing process take its place and not be afraid to cry, no matter where you're at, people will handle it. You just say I'm good, I'm just working through it. Go through the natural responses because it's part of your healing.

Nate Scheer: 23:28

On grief and since we're talking about insights gained from navigating grief, I think that's interesting that you'd prefaced it before, and I don't know if you knew you're going to come upon it or not, but you said earlier that every grief is different, and so it's interesting because you mentioned four different ones in that situation and all four of them being different.

Nate Scheer: 23:50

So I think that's a good reminder. I like to foot stomp things when I can, and so that's a quick foot stomp here to remember that they're all going to look a little bit different and so that response to it should be a little bit different as well. So that is good. What are some emotional coping strategies you have?

Tina Scheer: 24:14

Well, I wrote those down because I thought I want to make sure I can remember everything, because I think it was important that what did I do when I lost my husband? I think that I think the most important thing is I always remembered growing up or whatever. You know you could have a good cry, you know, just don't stay there too long, and what I mean that? I literally mean that give yourself a time limit, you know, and that particular one probably was a little longer, different. You know periods, but get out of bed every day, you know, put two feet down and even if you go to the grocery store or you take a walk around the block, but the things that I did, I know I did too much retail therapy and they that is a thing because they kept saying, oh yeah, people do that and I'm like, okay, I don't need any more shoes or purses or jeans or anything.

Tina Scheer: 25:08

So I finally, you know, cut myself back on that, but getting fresh air, get out and get fresh air, and I'm a light person, so I just needed to have the shades open I need, and every time, I really sometimes felt depressed or just discouraged. I really did feel like the sun would come on my face and I feel like, literally, I feel like the Lord was blessing me, because that was the one thing that I just thought I'm gonna be okay and just take a deep breath. I know that sounds like silly things, but just take a deep breath and let it out and enjoy the sunshine, get fresh air. Friends and family. People would pick me up for lunch or they would go for a walk with me. They would call me. We had some meals and we had people bless us and bless us with just financial, just gifts and whatever it was. I was just, we were blessed. So keep busy, fresh air walking.

Tina Scheer: 26:07

Look forward to something. I think it's important to have something in the future that you're looking forward to, so that's important. Get out of bed every day. Good, cry. Watch a funny movie. I mean, my kids would say you're watching that movie again and I'm like, yes, I'm watching it again. It makes me laugh. You know, if Instagram makes me laugh, because people do silly things and that's what I need to do I need my heart to feel again and laugh again. So that's what I did, and grief just takes time. One moment at a time. Go through the process. What works for you may not work for someone else, and what comforts? You may not comfort someone else. So to kind of be aware of that, does that answer that's pretty good, or what do you think? Absolutely?

Nate Scheer: 26:53

So I do want to know. Mother has bought three pairs of shoes with mom so she said she sticks her.

Tina Scheer: 26:58

Intel therapy, but might as well be working on it. I'm still working on it, nike man.

Nate Scheer: 27:04

Nike hits her hard, so she's got to have good walking shoes.

Tina Scheer: 27:08

Yes.

Nate Scheer: 27:09

And I love the office. Speaking of, you know watching things over and over. So I've watched the office through and through two, three, four, I don't even know how many times, but it's one of those things where you just leave happier and just one of those things is so good, you can watch some scary show or some other show where you feel you know, like one example used to love the walking dead, but it's depressing, they walk and they hide For sure All that stuff, like they're never good.

Nate Scheer: 27:35

now you know it kind of puts you in a weird funk. So find some shows or things where you're going to end feeling happier than when you started Always a good time. I want to touch on one last question in this section. I'm sure it's mentioned. In said a lot, but I want to hear your thoughts. So what are the importance of seeking support during the grieving process? You know, you're supposed to seek support, but what are your thoughts on the importance, how important that is to seek support?

Tina Scheer: 28:06

Well, I think it's important because, like I mentioned before, don't go a little alone. It's just your internal dialogue. You know you can trip yourself up pretty good, you know just being sad and you know this is never going to change. But if you have a different perspective, and sometimes that needs a little bit of a boost, you know what I mean. So I definitely think that's important to.

Nate Scheer: 28:41

Yeah, that's definitely important, those social environments and things like that. I think some of us, you know, will say we're introverted or extroverted, but I think as humans, as animals, we're just social animals in general. So I think there are some times where you got to recharge if you are the introvert, but there's certain element where you have to get out and be able to communicate with others. I know Kyle helped me get through my first assignment. It was a little rough but we had our aft calves where we drove over to Starbucks, got in the car, you know, word vomited and kind of got out a bunch of stuff and a bunch of bedding and then, you know, the car doors open. We got back and got out and we were good to go, but it was just having another human to either bounce ideas off or vent and things like that. So even if you are more introverted, you still need a social environment to some extent.

Tina Scheer: 29:28

It might look different.

Nate Scheer: 29:29

It might be a shorter amount of time, but I don't think you can skip the social interaction altogether. It's not healthy and it's not going to help you, you know, be able to process and move on. So sounding board is definitely important.

Nate Scheer: 29:44

I think that goes back to what I was talking about earlier, a little bit of that perspective. Yeah, someone might be able to tell you some other things that are going on and give you a better world view. I think that really helps. We're going to move on to our next section, which is supporting others through grief. So what are some coping strategies that helped you navigate your grief journey?

Tina Scheer: 30:07

Well, the retail therapy, which I realized I was doing it, or maybe I didn't realize I was doing it as bad. So that kind of needs to. You know, keep an eye on. Don't do any large spending or anything right at the beginning. I'm serious, because some people, you know, if they do get into some kind of money or whatever, just be cautious. You know, have a, like Nate said, a sounding board or run something by somebody, because when you're hurting, don't make big decisions like that. Just take a little bit of time to be processing and I'm just trying to think of the other things that I talked about. But making connections, you know, maybe try to start something new.

Tina Scheer: 30:51

Or I did the grief share at the beginning and that is a group that gets together with people that have lost a loved one, and I have some, you know, friends. I have one girlfriend that I did a Bible study with that lost her husband, and so we had gone to a few of those, and so it was interesting when I went to that one. It's called grief share and it's at a church and they have a video and they have a book and you go through and there's the different stages of grief and stuff. And the first time I went it was so interesting because I was young, because my husband was young, and so these older ladies and even men are in there and they're hurting so bad that I could give back, because I know what it feels like and you know they're tender and I'm tender and you can talk with them and listen with them and you can cry with them. So it's actually kind of therapeutic because you could feel like you could give back.

Tina Scheer: 31:44

And then my, that same friend, we went again not too long ago and it's been seven years and we were in a totally different season. These poor ladies were just going through the grieving process and so we're going. We could help them, we could be there, but then it was a little hard because we've already moved on and not that we can't be there, but it's a. It's a little tough because we're trying to stay in the present and I forgot to say that too. Try your best to stay in the present and look for the good in every day. So that's one thing, yeah.

Nate Scheer: 32:19

Definitely going to meet people where they're at.

Tina Scheer: 32:20

Yeah.

Nate Scheer: 32:22

So I guess that demonstrates the importance of empathy and some of that active listening, doesn't it? Yes, absolutely. So I want to touch on do's and don'ts when supporting someone who is grieving. So you got this group. You know somebody had asked or said earlier, you know asked somebody. If you do identify someone is, or you stumble across it, how do you go about that? What are the do's and don'ts for supporting someone?

Tina Scheer: 32:46

Well, the do's are definitely like you had mentioned.

Tina Scheer: 32:49

Is the listening, like stop talking, don't don't do the talking, just come alongside them, let them talk, because they're going to share, they're going to say you know their emotions, you know, that's that empathy part that you know, you kind of touched on, you know, put yourself in their shoes and let them know that you care and that you're, you're there to just listen and sit with him.

Tina Scheer: 33:16

I think that's just so important and to let them know that you're, you're there. Now, if it's a grief share class or whatever I was in maybe get their number, maybe take them out for coffee or, you know, bring them a meal or it's or something I can do, because people that are hurting aren't necessarily going to reach out, you know. So I think that's important we talk about our mental health is you reach out? If you're in a season where you're kind of in a good place, reach out to the person that maybe won't won't reach out. I'm telling you, those are times where that really helped, where I didn't even want to talk or go out or whatever, but just that they had made that effort I did and then, once I got out, got like I mentioned just get out and make that connection, you start to feel better.

Nate Scheer: 34:03

So those are some great dudes. What are some of the don'ts?

Tina Scheer: 34:07

Oh, the don'ts, yes, yes, the don'ts are things like you know, like feeling like you're one. They don't mean to do that, but share your story and then say, oh, it's just a season, or you're saying something that they may take it as you don't know what my season's like, you don't know how I'm feeling, because every journey is different and you know it's about the but the.

Nate Scheer: 34:34

I think yeah action and the active listening.

Tina Scheer: 34:37

Absolutely.

Nate Scheer: 34:37

You could say a lot of cliche things. Yeah, you shall pass.

Tina Scheer: 34:40

Yeah, yeah, don't say that, uh, or you know, sometimes they want to compare it like, um, sometimes the heaven thing bothered me Well, they're in a better place and well, okay. Well, that doesn't make me feel better now, because, you know, I miss them and maybe they you felt like they shouldn't have gone so soon or something, um, but I think sometimes they they mean well when they say these different things, but, um, it doesn't always feel like it's being well received. So be careful how you you say things, because I, um, you know, I think that's really important.

Nate Scheer: 35:19

Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I just posted a video on the shirrius positivity Facebook page. It was the Brene Brown video, but one of the things she mentions is you can't have empathy if you're afraid. It starts with at least, and so the example is someone lost a baby. It's at least.

Tina Scheer: 35:36

Yeah right, you can conceive.

Nate Scheer: 35:38

Yeah, that's not. That's not the way to go about it no, you just need to be quiet, actively listen. They want to find that connection, another human. They don't want to do comparisons, they're not trying to like, move on at that exact moment, they're just trying to process.

Tina Scheer: 35:53

So yes.

Nate Scheer: 35:54

Uh, the logical will at least this film of blank the logical the logic is not there at that point. The processing needs to happen.

Tina Scheer: 36:01

So yeah, like this must really hurt. I'm really sorry that you're going through this. I can't even imagine whatever you're going to say that makes them feel like that they're you know they're being heard, or that you're caring, you're letting them grieve. It's okay to grieve with them, yeah.

Nate Scheer: 36:18

And it's pretty difficult, I know I've tried to. You know, send words to somebody and you know what I normally say is what I'm feeling, which is there are no good words, because I feel like we want to fill in and say the right thing. And so the thing that I'm feeling at the current moment for that person is that there is no good words.

Nate Scheer: 36:38

Um, and so I hope that comes across correctly, because I don't want to try to fill it with a cliche or with something, to try to just fill Just that. It's, it's, yeah, it's too, difficult, the processing and healing will occur, yeah.

Tina Scheer: 36:54

So how do you?

Nate Scheer: 36:54

offer help to someone without overwhelming them. It's like you had said you've gotten to different spots where you just don't want to talk, don't want to do anything. So do you just rip them out of the house and make them go do something, or that's probably? Is that too much?

Tina Scheer: 37:11

Um, I guess I would be for that example. Don't have them, like, where would you like to go to eat or what would you like to do? They don't. You don't want to make any decisions, you're overwhelmed, you can't even think, say, you know I'm going to pick you up, I'm going to pick you up and, um, you know I'm going to take you up for coffee, like I mentioned. Or, hey, I'm going to come over and we're going to walk at whatever time, like I mean, not be forceful, but just. And then they know what to anticipate. And then I think that once you get out the door, you know well, you know your friend or the person that you're trying to support and you don't want to push too much.

Tina Scheer: 37:52

Because I've been in situations where I've tried to talk to a person that lost her husband and she was not processing. It was um aunt Debbie's friend, and we went and we visited with her and it was pretty severe. So you, you, you are more gentle, you're. And she didn't want, you know, no matter what you did, she didn't want to reach out, she didn't, she wanted just to self, um, stay at home, she wanted just to to go away. But it wasn't going away. So we were open when she was ready. So sometimes you do kind of sense that you know make sure the family's watching the person or making the connection Um. So I think you'll know in the situation what you need to do and how to do it. You know what I mean, cause it depends on the person.

Nate Scheer: 38:43

That's a perfect segue for our last question in this section, which are what are some suggestions you have for creating that safe and supportive environment?

Tina Scheer: 38:53

Um, something fun and comfortable. You mean, if it's a friend that lost, um, a loved one like you know, what would they like to do? Would it be just to go um to the waterfront or whatever and get ice cream? And you know you're just trying to get their mind off of it so they can just be in the present for a moment. And I cause people say, well, how do you do it? And sometimes they say, take one day at a time. No, I'd say one moment at a time when you're grieving that severe you know loss or compound loss, um, you need to take one moment at a time. Um, so, laugh with them the best. You can cry with them, um, um, find something funny as well.

Tina Scheer: 39:39

I think it's important to see your senses. I mean, if you get them out of the house, you know, whatever time of the year it is, see what's around you, you know what you're hearing around you, you know the sounds and your the smells, what you're seeing and hearing. The senses I think I think are important that it's the present, helping them stay in the present and their friendship. They'll know that you love and care about them and if you can hug them or, you know, just squeeze their hand or whatever. But you can. You literally. I'm here, I'm not going anywhere. I love you. They know that they can count on you. I think that's how you do it.

Nate Scheer: 40:24

That wraps up that section. That definitely puts a bow on it and we're going to move on to tools and resources. So first question in this section how does the five stages of grief model apply to real life? So we talk about it, people have heard it how does it apply to real life, the five stages of grief?

Tina Scheer: 40:47

Five stages of grief. Well, I've definitely been through those. So let's see, I wrote them down so I make sure I didn't miss them. The five stages are denial you just don't want it to be true. Anger yeah, you're going to be angry. I've done a lot of venting, I've had a good conversation with the Lord and I did. I was, I was upset, and I think that that's okay to. You have to get those emotions out. You have to get them out somewhere and they might not be pretty, but it's okay.

Nate Scheer: 41:19

Processing.

Tina Scheer: 41:20

Processing, bargaining. I don't know if I exactly did this one. I'm trying to think, you know, bargaining, you know I well, you know I would have done stuff different. I think that's more guilt. I think, you know, did I do enough? You know, could I have done things different? And let's see.

Tina Scheer: 41:41

The fourth one is depression. That definitely is in there. You're just going to have your ups and downs and acceptance. And I would say, seven years into it, I do have acceptance. I know the one thing Nate had asked me is something that bugged you.

Tina Scheer: 42:00

People would say, well, my daughter used to say there's a reason for everything. And early on with the grief, that was really a stinger. That really it didn't feel good. I'm like, yeah, yeah, okay, everything has a reason, but the acceptance part of it it's. They would say, well, with grief it'll soften. And I remember the one of the nurses said that too, that it's going to, you're going to whatever she said, but that in time in time it'll soften. And I was thinking at the time when, you know, probably with the anger, and yeah, yeah, it'll soften, yeah, thank you.

Tina Scheer: 42:40

This is a lifetime of hurt. I mean, I never hurt so bad in my life. I never cried so much in my entire life. It just comes. Then you throw in menopause in there and that's just a double whammy. So that was hard. With the it'll soften. But seven years later I can honestly say it's softening. It hurts. I mean I, you know my husband's in my heart, no matter where I go, my mom, you know my loved ones. But it does soften and it just takes time. It might take a lifetime but it softens.

Nate Scheer: 43:24

Yeah, I think it's one thing it's important to remember. Another foot stomp is, whenever it goes away, some people want to say it'll clear out, it'll erase, it'll delete. It never really does that. It just kind of softens. It probably is the best for remember. There was one time I was driving to work it had been many, many years after grandpa Clyde had passed away and wave of motion hit me. It's kind of interesting because they say you don't know when or how it'll pop up. But it's one of those things.

Nate Scheer: 43:53

I was driving to work in my six speed stick shift and it was a random connection back to grandpa Brian sitting in a old dirty field Toyota pickup shifting to the gears, learning how to drive, and it was just very interesting for that wave of motion to come out of nowhere, because I love shifting to the gears and that's something that I'm only able to do because he sat and spent a bunch of time with me.

Nate Scheer: 44:22

Starting and stopping, and starting and stopping. So sometimes it does come out of nowhere. It can be many years later, but it does pop up from time to time. But the acceptance is important, so you're able to process and move on. I'd like to make sure we highlight some online resources books, organizations. You touched on one. Do you have any other resources that are available for people out there?

Tina Scheer: 44:45

Yeah, that one, the grief share that's at the local churches. When I was going through everything, my local insurance agent she had lost her husband to this lung cancer. He was Navy and he was around the same age, so she gave me option B, which I'm a little tired right now. I had that all down to who that was who the author.

Nate Scheer: 45:21

Yeah, I had it all wrote down, but it's really good.

Tina Scheer: 45:24

She was like a COO of Facebook and her husband was SurveyMonkey CEO or something, but he passed away when they were on vacation, so that's.

Nate Scheer: 45:39

Cheryl Sandberg yes please.

Tina Scheer: 45:41

Yes, thank you. So she goes over that and I haven't read it in a while. I probably could read it again. There was another book that I will get back to Nate and let him know it was very helpful, but I'm on vacation and now I must be processing because I'm not thinking about it. I will give him that information on that other book. That was really helpful.

Nate Scheer: 46:04

Option B is by Cheryl Sandberg, adam Grant. A lot of people have heard of Adam Grant, so he is involved in that book, so it looks like a really good one to check out. I did want to make one note the 988, the new suicide hotline. That Lifeline provides 24-7, free and completely confidential support for people in distress, so it includes prevention, crisis resources for you and loved ones and best practices for many people in the United States. So if someone is at the worst part of their life in that depression phase, I want to make sure we put that plug out there, not to bring a dark moment to this episode.

Nate Scheer: 46:43

I just want to make sure people have the resources they need. So thank you, Mother, for coming on the show.

Tina Scheer: 46:50

Thank you, this was a great time.

Nate Scheer: 46:52

I want to give you a chance to provide any lasting takeaways. If you could pick one thing for the listeners to hear and take away and put into their lives today or this week, what would it be?

Tina Scheer: 47:06

Live your best life, because that's what my grandson Zika says. He says live in my best life. And that's what I want to do. I want to have joy. I know I have my moments. I, you know, I still even today. Every once in a while I get a little teary-eyed and I just, I just I feel a little lost sometimes, but then I go no, I'm not lost, I am right where I need to be and I want to live my best life and just enjoy what I can and stay in the present. That's what I'm working on Live each day and find something to be thankful for. So, yes, Absolutely Well.

Nate Scheer: 47:46

thanks for coming on this show.

Nate Scheer: 47:47

Thank you being able to get this out and probably helping one or many people along the way that will be able to jump on here and listen to this. I encourage people to jump on, listen to this episode and any previous episodes as we continue rolling out these important conversations. Please subscribe, rate, review the podcast, let me know what's good, bad and indifferent. Jump on Shereeus Positivity the Facebook page or check out this podcast on Buzzsprout and we will keep having good conversations. Can't wait to see you next time. I love you all.