MindForce: Mental Fitness & Life Stories!
Welcome to the show! We're on a mission to explore diverse perspectives and topics through podcasts and social media accounts. Tune in to 'MindForce' for insightful discussions on mental fitness and self-care strategies. Join us on 'Carer Stories' as we delve into the fascinating world of the Air Force, learning from professionals across various career fields and various other career stories. Follow us for engaging content and stay connected to broaden your horizons!
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MindForce: Mental Fitness & Life Stories!
Military Leadership and Healthcare Synergy: Colonel Gloria Walski on Adaptability, Resilience, and Excellence
What happens when you combine two decades of military leadership with the nuanced world of healthcare administration? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Colonel Gloria Walski, an Air Force officer whose career spans supporting the United States Space Force, handling disaster response, and homeland defense planning. Gloria dives into her extensive experience, emphasizing the importance of adaptability and continuous learning in leadership roles. She also shares her favorite influential books, such as John Maxwell’s “21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership.” She discusses the pivotal role of self-love and self-care in shaping personal and professional relationships.
Ever wondered about the complexities of military contracting and the transition to broader responsibilities? This episode sheds light on the initial shock of managing high-stakes programs without direct personnel control, the importance of clear communication, and structured timelines for accountability. Gloria recounts her journey from intelligence officer to the Medical Service Corps, highlighting her background as a Chinese American officer, and how diverse experiences and comprehensive training enriched her understanding of healthcare administration. The conversation also touches on the unique challenges these roles face and the strategies for balancing critical readiness missions with everyday demands.
Leadership isn't just about making decisions—it's about building resilient teams and effective communication. Gloria shares invaluable lessons from her time as a commander, including the importance of fostering social engagement, building resilience, and managing stress in high-pressure environments. She discusses the persistent challenge of effective communication within military units and offers insights into maintaining mental fitness amidst the fast-paced demands of military life. For current and aspiring leaders, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom on command principles, decision-making, and the importance of putting people first. Tune in for a compelling exploration of leadership from a seasoned military professional.
Welcome to the show. I'm your host, nate Shear, and this is the show Mindforce the podcast for love, life and learning, where your mind matters. Today we have Colonel Gloria Walske and today we're going to be talking about being a commander. Welcome to the show, Colonel Walske.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Okay, so we're going to start with the baseline stuff. Who, what, why? Who are you, what do you do and why are you here?
Speaker 2:All right. Well, as you introduced, I am Gloria Walske, I am an Air Force officer and I'm a health administrator, such as yourself. Medical Service Corps is what we like to refer to ourselves, so MSC Command, and we also support the United States Space Force. It's pretty cool. We get to support deployments and global contingencies, disaster response. We also work with medical emergency management and homeland defense planning. But I haven't done readiness my entire career. I've been in the Air Force for a little over 20 years. I've done quite a bit of readiness, emergency management for the civilians, but I've also done a lot of group practice management, health plans. So kind of a good balance in our career field. And then, as you mentioned, with command, I did five years of squadron command at two different methods that's good stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as mscs we gotta kind of adapt and overcome and we get thrown in. We gotta do all sorts of different stuff. I remember my first commander, colonel hinker. Um, he had talked about that, how once you start to feel comfortable, you kind of move on to the next spot. And one thing I always kind of found funny is uh, maybe it's not funny, but he was at the Pentagon as Lieutenant Colonel and he was like you know, the joke was getting coffee and things like that.
Speaker 1:So just when you start to feel comfortable, you move up to a higher level of responsibility where you know all that stuff kind of moves up a notch, which is interesting. If you command 10 people, the next time you command 100 and kind of keeps going up from there and there. So that's good stuff. Well, thank you for coming out. We're going to start with the warm-up kind of get to know you as a guest before we jump into the interview. So the first question in the warm-up is what's one app you're using, one book you recommend and one thing you are listening to, listening to, like to see how you're using your time to understand you well, I read a lot.
Speaker 2:I think I'm up to 60 books this year and I and I don't. I don't usually listen to them, so I'm not really listening to anything, uh, but the one book I do like to recommend is 21 irrefutable laws of leadership by John Maxwell. I've read that probably three or four times throughout the course of my career. Each time something different resonates, so it's very applicable, no matter where you are in your leadership journey. One app if the Kindle app counts, that would be the app.
Speaker 1:Nice. So reading and more reading yes, that's good stuff. I like that. You recommended rereading the books. One of my favorite books is Fierce Conversations by Susan Scott. I've read it two or three times and it's interesting how you can pick up different stuff. I have many quotes from that book, but one of the things that's really nice about that book is not only can you apply it at work, but you can apply it at home, and I'm assuming the book that you referenced as well. A lot of those principles you can bring back to relationship building, other things at home, which is good, definitely. Next question in the warmup, what's one lesson you think or one lesson you have learned that you think everyone should know and live by?
Speaker 2:I think everyone needs to learn to love themselves, especially as you're starting out as a young adult. A lot of times we are so excited about moving on with life, but then we are also scared about what that means. Maybe we second guess ourselves, we fail to take care of ourselves the whole point of your podcast taking care of yourself mentally, physically, spiritually, whatever the case may be and I think we often forget to do that. But a big step of that is to love yourself, to take care of yourself and respect yourself.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I wonder why we do that. It must be a human nature thing. I remember as a kid I wanted to shave so bad because that'd be so cool. And then grew up and, you know, had skin problems and that was like the worst thing ever to run, you know, this super sharp paper thin razor over my skin. But as a kid that's so cool. So you're going over with like the one little hair that's there, hoping that it'll multiply. It's like why did I want that to happen? You just think it's cool. I remember I had a girlfriend in high school. She actually wore prescription glasses because she wanted to wear glasses and by wearing them ruined her eyes. So then she needed glasses.
Speaker 2:So it's funny how we want to move on with our lives and really we probably need to slow down and cherish the moments that we're at and I would say that's very true of people who desperately want to be in a relationship, they want to be married, they, and sometimes they end up settling for someone who's not right for them, who does not treat them the way they deserve to be treated. And that's another point of love yourself, because that way you know what you deserve. But yes, and especially, at least speaking for myself in my early twenties it's I'm never going to find anyone, no one. You know, I'm never going to get married so desperate to get into a relationship that that, and maybe that's part of the learning process. Fortunately they were not permanent relationships, but you know, I had a couple that were just like. This is not right for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. I was talking to my wife about this a couple of weeks ago, but that phrase there's not too many phrases that kind of bug me, but one that does a little bit is like I can't live without you, or you can plead me, and it's always one I've kind of struggled with, like you should be whole as a person, and then when you find somebody, it's an added bonus and you do more good things, it's a multiplier, it's even better, but you shouldn't need someone to complete you. I know that it's on the Hallmark card and it's meant to sound good and sound romantic and things like that. So I hate to shoot it down, but I do wish people would think about it. You shouldn't need any other human to complete you. Um, you are whole by yourself. So, yeah, that's a very good point. Be, be complete yourself, um. So we're going to move on to the next question. Uh, this is a fun one. We'll see what comes out. If you could describe yourself in three words, what would it be?
Speaker 2:Well, I heard this described about me recently kind firm. I know that's only two.
Speaker 1:Maybe double down on the kind or on the firm.
Speaker 2:Either one yeah.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Okay, so we're going to move into the interview. I want to make sure we're keeping this a dialogue back and forth, so we're going to open up and give you a chance to ask me a question what do you got?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I understand that you were prior enlisted. You started out as a traffic controller, is that correct?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then moved into the contracting career field. Before you commissioned as a medical service corps officer, so you were an NCO, a non-commissioned officer. So you had already gone to an airman leadership school. You were already a supervisor responsible for projects, programs and other people. And then, when you commissioned as a first or second, first or second lieutenant, Second Second lieutenant I. I imagine that there was a learning curve going from NCO to officer, and what was that like from a leadership?
Speaker 1:perspective? Yeah, absolutely. So it's kind of funny. As a senior NCO, as a staff sergeant, I tested once for tech and then got picked up after that, and so I did have on average, between three and five troops and so kind of a funny story with this. I got put at Edwards Air Force Base where there's only just over 200 people in the clinic so relatively small clinic and I was all excited to get all these people because I thought I was going up in responsibility as I crossed over and I had one troop that was a senior airman, so it's just me and her kind of what felt like at some points against the med group.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that's not how it should be, but yeah, it was really interesting to have that kind of sticker shock. I kind of tell people and when I help people with the commissioning process I try to jump on some of the pages and help them as they get selected and things like that Try to prepare them. I hope that it never comes off as like a negative type thing. I don't want it to be that way, but I was really surprised and kind of shocked at how much I didn't know. So I was in small units and contracting. Usually there are 30 to 40 people, half being civilian, half being active duty, and so I went to a lot of the staff meetings and I thought I knew all the things that were happening because I was included in what I thought was most of the things. But a lot of the decisions that are being made are a lot higher level than a staff sergeant. So more closed door meetings, side you know, side conversations and different things like that. So the first year was really difficult for me. So my best friend, captain Guthrie, kyle Guthrie, he's out at Spangolum right now. We started at the same day there at Edwards and hopefully I'm not speaking on his behalf.
Speaker 1:But the first year was a little rough for us. I think we thought we knew what we were getting into, but we didn't. So one challenge I really had, I think, was the level and scope of responsibility. So I didn't have people and so I think in a lot of cases, from what I've seen, the responsibility comes from people or programs. Those are kind of your two and, not to oversimplify it, but usually you have larger flights, your TOPA, which is your insurance, and other things. But to summarize, or logistics are usually your larger flights, you know. And so, like Kadena, I had a hundred people out there but Edwards only had the two people, but a lot of programs.
Speaker 1:When I came back from HSA I got handed I think I'll remember this forever 28 blue folders.
Speaker 1:I was like, what are these blue folders?
Speaker 1:And it was my name on 28 different appointment letters where I was now the expert and most of those programs and readiness report directly to the group, so not even at the squadron level, but unit deployment manager and a long list of other things anti-terrorism, security, other things that I had to have routine meetings, different stuff with the group commander and you can't really I mean, at least personally I don't feel in a lot of cases it's you know appropriate to be like I don't know unless I really don't, and got to go track it down but you don't want to say I don't know over and over. And so I think you know I'm kind of drawing this out, but I think that was the biggest change. Just the scope of responsibility was so big and it went in a different direction, I think, because I really thought it was going to be people and really it was all those programs that were integral to the group feeding into the wing and so that really threw me off and it was a pretty stressful first year. But yeah, does that get after it?
Speaker 2:I think so, and having been there as a young officer in readiness, responsible for a ton of programs that are high impact and having no direct control over the people, if you will, who? Have to do all the training. It was definitely a lesson in leadership leading people who aren't under your responsibility, getting people, influencing people to do something they may not want to do, so that you can have a successful program.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And one thing I remember is that term like running the bus over people, and so that's one thing I try to remember. There's a difference between that and holding people accountable. I think that's really difficult because you go to the MRC, which is the Medical Readiness Committee, and you have to show deficiencies and different things it may be training or whatever it may be and so some people will be like, well, that's unfair, you put me up there.
Speaker 1:But what I did was and I'm, I think, a nice person and I think I'm more on the people pleasing side so that is difficult for me. But what felt comfortable to me was I had time hacks that ran up to the MRC, so it was like two weeks out, one week out on the MRC, and so I'd send out the report from MRDSS try not to use too many acronyms on here, but the system we use for tracking things and I gave them the heads up that they were going to be highlighted and then highlight in them and I think that is, you know, holding people accountable as opposed to running them over. You had the chance and then at that point I have to highlight it. So I think, if you build in the right timelines and you give people the chance and communicate. I think we'll probably talk about communication here later, because it's always a big issue, but if you communicated what you can, it's not the bus. At that point, you just have to do what you got to do.
Speaker 2:You told them the bus was coming. You gave them a chance to get out of the way.
Speaker 1:They got run over.
Speaker 2:It was their own fault Absolutely, if they got run over.
Speaker 1:It was their own fault Absolutely. But I definitely agree and I remember coming home and talking to my wife a couple of times where I was a little discouraged being readiness and sometimes feeling like I was in the way which is a really odd feeling Because I'd run training day or set something up and then I'd hear comments off to the side where the providers weren't being able to keep up with their admin notes or you know something. And so I did have a little bit of turmoil the first year or two and I did almost three years at that first position there in readiness and so I did get discouraged, sometimes feeling like I was a distraction. It kind of felt like. But yeah, what are your thoughts on? Kind of the distraction there? We know it's necessary but there's so much to do there in health care.
Speaker 2:There is, but if we remember that the reason we wear the uniform is for the readiness response piece of it, that should be the priority. Yes, we have to take care of patients, but they chose to volunteer to serve. They could have, as providers, done this in the civilian sector sector, not have to worry about their extra stuff that we're making them do. But the extra stuff is why they joined that's why we wear the uniform.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, it's always good to remember. I remember being a little discouraged and disappointed when I planned all these events for training day and then I see like someone walking up to their car. I'm like, hey, where are, where are you going? And they're like, oh, the DMV Training day is the day I run my errands, run your errands. That's not what training day is for. But we'll move on to this, the topic of the day for discussion. So let's give a foundation of yourself. So can you give us your origin story, your background?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely so. My parents, or my dad, was in the Air Force. He retired from the Air Force. Actually. He immigrated from Taiwan. Both my parents are from Taiwan, so from that perspective a little bit unique.
Speaker 2:When I was growing up I was the only Chinese American military Air Force brat, but we mostly lived in the Midwest. When it came time for me to apply to college, I applied to a school in St Louis, which private school cost a lot of money. My dad's like well, I hope you find a scholarship to pay for that. By the way, the Air Force offers scholarships. So I applied for an Air Force ROTC scholarship, ended up getting that majored in Chinese because that's what they said. They'll pay for me to go to school to do so. I knew at the end of graduation I was going to commission, and to what? Afsc? That was a big question. I was not really interested in being an intel officer, which is what they had matched me to.
Speaker 2:I went to Scott Air Force Base to do a to a career fair and met this nurse who said hey, have you heard about the medical service corps? Um, apparently I had, I just forgot. But at that point I was like, no, I never heard of it and, um I I got to talking to some of the medical service corps officers. I was like, oh yeah, I do remember this from like five years ago, four years ago. Uh, I thought that was a really boring career field, but I think I'll apply. So I applied, got picked up and had no idea what I was getting myself into absolutely no idea. Don't know why they picked me, but they taught me everything I needed to know. I still continue to this day. The air force taught me everything I needed to know about Air Force health care. So that's kind of my origin story.
Speaker 2:I will say I did an education with industry. So it's an opportunity where you go into the civilian sector to kind of learn the latest and greatest and see if you can take some of those lessons and bring it and apply it to the military. So my education with industry opportunity was for practice management. I did this at the Barnes-Jewish Hospital in St Louis, which is associated with my undergrad university. So it was really exciting to be back in St Louis and I did not know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid.
Speaker 2:And you know they're looking at me and they're like are you a health administrator? Yes, I am. Well, what's your payer mix like? What's a payer mix? And in the military we don't have a payer mix. It's TRICARE, it's a one-payer system. I didn't really understand that, but I learned quickly. Okay, now I know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid, and now they know the difference between the VA health system and the military health system, because they often got that confused and thought it was one and the same. So it was a great opportunity to learn from each other.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I think that's actually one of my favorite things. I love many things about being an MSC. I mean that first year was a little rough but after that it's been really good since then. But I love how diverse we are. It's so cool. So at this point I've worked with a professional softball player, you know someone that worked at Bank of America, people from private health care, people from a long list of prior enlisted career fields com finance. The list goes on and on, and so I think that's awesome.
Speaker 1:When we get given these problems and these uh things we got to tackle, we don't tackle it from one solution, we tackle it from a whole bunch, because we have so many different things. And I also want to touch on I find it so funny that everyone stumbles across msc. It feels like I was just randomly in a cubicle, was eavesdropping when maybe I shouldn't have been, and like it just goes from there. So it's kind of funny, like either forget or you don't remember, or someone just drops in your lap. It's kind of crazy, but I'm glad we're all here and getting after it. So move on to the next question. So let's lay down this foundation, let's lay down what we're talking about today. So can you give us a quick elevator speech on what you would say if someone says what is being a commander?
Speaker 1:How do you drum that down?
Speaker 2:The military. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Oh, go ahead, Go ahead.
Speaker 2:A commander in the military is charged with organizing training and equipping the personnel to be ready to deploy and support our nation, and a commander is also responsible for the morale and welfare in the discipline of the unit Air Force and specifically, the medical service. A lot of people like to compare it to a VP of a hospital or a health organization and in many ways it is like that, but in other ways VPs don't have the responsibility of the people with making sure that they are doing what they're supposed to in terms of the law right. So I'd say from that perspective it's a little bit different. We as commanders have legal authority to administer certain levels of discipline. I don't think of you who can do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting between the civilian sector and military there's like some things we want to try to make equal and just are. And I want to make a quick note here. I wasn't sure if I was going to jump in on it, but I feel like it's been kind of weighing heavy on my heart. We had the CV-22 crash a couple of days ago and this will come out in a few months, so time sensitive is not really too relevant. But I just want to touch base on some of the articles and some of the things that have been coming out.
Speaker 1:And one of the things is kind of a pet peeve of mine and I would say I don't have many, but the routine training thing drives me nuts because the things we do in the military are high stakes all the time and so routine just feels like it's trying to drum it down to something that's ordinary, that's basic, and there's really nothing routine or basic about what we do. If there's any time, any given day, you can lose your life or be seriously harmed or injured. I mean that's not a job where you're at a cubicle or you're. You know, that's what I would consider routine, like a normal office job, and so I hope there's prayers out for the families of those people, especially during the holidays Terrible time. I don't want to derail but just have to say that the military, as much as we want to try to associate it and connect it to a civilian sector type thing, they're just some things that don't translate, sorry.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, thank you for saying that or mentioning that. It's like saying there's a routine surgery. I don't think there's any surgery that is ever truly routine. There's always a risk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is so odd, I actually lost my grandma. Not to be super negative in this one, but and I remember I was younger and they said it was routine heart surgery. So I remember I was like, oh okay, it's routine. Like why did I think that? Like they're cutting on a heart, there's nothing routine about that. So very interesting, um. But I'm glad you were able to kind of highlight the primary responsibilities and the objectives of a commander and how. There's probably not too many jobs in the normal life out there that are the same. But to move on, first big question is how has your experience as a commander shaped your approach to leadership and personal development?
Speaker 2:I'd say it's influenced it a lot. I think, if I back up to when I was applying to be a squadron commander, the MAJCOM administrator asked me why I wanted to be a commander. Why should she advocate for me to be selected to be a candidate to be a squadron commander? And I said, well, I feel like I've been training my entire career, preparing my entire career for this, and it really is truly how I feel about that, because every job that we do yes, we have a job to do, but we're also preparing for the next thing. We're trying to increase and improve ourselves. You learn from everything you do. You improve yourself as a leader.
Speaker 2:I've had good squadron leader. I've had good scoring commanders. I've had bad ones. Of course, I wanted to learn from both. It was an honor to get matched to a scoring command.
Speaker 2:I saw that as an opportunity to influence and grow other leaders. I had a captive audience. The thing about scoring command is you're right there, front and center. Everybody is looking at you, Everyone's judging you Before you arrive on station. Everyone has researched you and I think even now, with social media, it is even more. If you're out there on the internet, they've found it, so you could either waste that opportunity or take advantage of it, and I did what I could to take advantage of it.
Speaker 2:At the end of each of my staff meetings I would give a leadership moment five, ten minutes to discuss a topic, an article I read, or maybe a hands-on exercise or something to kind of help people improve their approach to leadership. Even if they're not engaged. I know they're listening and maybe they can apply that to where they are. And it didn't matter to me who was in the room. They could be flight commanders they're enlisted leaders or it could be the airmen who happened to be there that day. Everyone could benefit.
Speaker 2:So that was kind of my big thing. I wanted to grow good leaders, because we also have our share of not so good leaders and they don't. I don't think they purposely want to be bad leaders, but I do think part of it is no one holding them accountable, no one's showing them the way it. Just they are allowed to continue to progress and promote and then they're in a position where they hold a lot of authority and power over other people and if you wield that power poorly you could ruin a lot of lives or people just quit. They quit bad leaders, not jobs.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I want to go off script and ask a quick question, maybe more from a personal standpoint, but I'd like to know. So when you were about to publish your first episode, wow, your first I don't know what they're called your first article?
Speaker 2:Is that an article for the? Blog Blog post I think, yeah, blog post.
Speaker 1:I think yeah, okay, so blog posts. What was your apprehension on going into this space that is now public and, like you said, there's research of social media. What were your thoughts and feeling? Like? I kind of had a lot of them as I was about to go out there, but I'm curious, like you have now put pen to paper or finger to keyboard, I guess, in this case, and putting it out there on the internet, and so when you're inbound, are you worried that people are going to say, oh, she said this, or I mean, what was that thought process as you went to publish the very first one?
Speaker 2:It. It was very scary and I had to force myself. Okay, I am going live and it's going to happen, and I don't have to tell anyone about it. But then what's the point of doing this if I'm not telling anyone? So, yeah, it was terrifying. But then I also told myself nothing that I have published is anything I haven't already talked about in my school order. It's nothing I haven't already presented in a lunch and learn somewhere, and everything I talk about is truly what I've done. And so, yes, there are times when I'm like, okay, I'm going to sit down, I'm going to give feedback to somebody. Are they going to point back? Well, you said this. There's absolutely nothing they could possibly say that. I said that I don't really do so does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. Have you ever had that backfire where you said be nice to people or something and they're like, hey, you're not being nice to me or I don't know?
Speaker 2:I haven't. I've gotten very positive feedback on this. I don't generally talk about my blog at work, to be honest, but a lot of, like I said, people find it. They do their Internet research and then everyone's so awesome they're like, hey, I saw your post or they'll mention it, but yeah, Okay, cool, let's move on to the next question.
Speaker 1:So I want to steer away from you know, generalities and things like that. I really want to give listeners specific, actionable tips. Can you share a specific challenge or situation from your commander days commanding days and kind of walk us through what happened and what the valuable lessons were about that?
Speaker 2:As a commander, you know it's people, who people is always going to be your biggest, where you invest most of your time right, whether it's you're trying to grow them to be a better human being or better leader, or if you're just trying to redirect them from a bad mistake that they made. So I'd say, every time I've had to issue paperwork or sit down with somebody to kind of talk through a life event that may have turned their world upside down, those have always been challenging. But you can't shy away from confrontation if that's what the situation is and but you have to be firm, you have to be fair and you know you don't have to be like oh, i't believe you did this, you suck. That will never get you anywhere. People stop listening after that.
Speaker 2:What's worked for me is to say you know, I know that sometimes we don't always make the best decisions spur of the moment, whatever the situation may be. I'm sure you're disappointed in yourself, I am disappointed in you, but I think you can do better and we move on. But the biggest challenge as a squadron commander honestly was um, in yourself. I am disappointed in you, but I think you can do better. But the biggest challenge as a squadron commander honestly, was trying to make that grow that network, and you may you probably experienced it at every level in the Air Force. Yes, teamwork is highly valued, but then it's also a very competitive world, right. We're always getting stratified on our office performance reports and who doesn't want the number one right? But there are some people who make it very known and and it can be really challenging. And so, yes, I experienced that not just as a scoring commander but at all levels, as a CGO, as an FGO.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. Next question is decision-making can impact people's lives. What principles of decision-making and risk management have you learned in your your time so far?
Speaker 2:Well, the thing about decision-making is you, uh, have to be comfortable with getting you know 80, not you know making a decision without 100 of information because sometimes you're just not going to get that, yeah, and you just don't have time to to get all of the information because by then there's almost no point in making that decision.
Speaker 2:But you have to consider everything you can. I had several squadron enlisted leaders, but definitely relying on their suggestions, their advice, what their perspectives are. Same thing with the first sergeant, if there's a supervisor involved, just talking to everyone to say, hey, what am I missing? Is there anything else I need to know? And then you can make a decision. If it's about a person, and knowing that, yes, if I issue an Article 15 where somebody is going to get demoted which impacts their pay, which could impact their family life, which could impact their family life, I've had people write letters, like family members write letters, begging me to not make a certain decision. So all of that is considered. But you also have to weigh. You know what is the outcome, what is?
Speaker 1:the desired outcome Absolutely and you don't want, you know, paralysis via analysis where you just sit and kind of mull over it forever. But have you seen, you know, positive results from sleeping on it? Or what's some of the things you do where it kind of makes you feel more at peace with it? Other than touching to the SEL and first sergeant, Is there other things that kind of make you feel more concrete in your decision?
Speaker 2:uh, I mean, yeah, it's always. If you have time, it's always good to sleep on it. You always want to, depending on what the situation is, seek as much advice as you can from you know, the legal office, or or your, even your boss, or whatever. But at the end of the day, as a commander, it's your decision. You don't want to ever become a point where somebody else has to make that decision for you, because then, in my mind, what's the point of you being that commander? Uh, but yes, you don't want to sit on a decision forever either, because it's unfair to whoever is waiting on that decision, because they, they need to know one thing or the other. You just which is it so they can move on with their life, because otherwise they're not. They're just kind of sitting there waiting, and I can only empathize. If I were to wait on a big decision and each day passes, I'm not going to be very productive. I'm not going to want to do anything until I know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I definitely commend you for thinking of others. I think that's one thing I've seen in my time where certain things have happened to me and they were totally non-intentional. But sometimes people don't think of how other people are receiving things. Even some of the simpler things like report down to my office and you're like freaking out and it's like why didn't you just tell me you needed, you know, this appointment letter signed like?
Speaker 1:I remember I got called from across base one time to the commander's office and I was just freaking out sitting in the front lobby thing and it was legitimately to get an appointment letter updated. I was like was this really this necessary? I thought I was like about to get fired like a second lieutenant. So yeah, I think thinking of how other people might receive is super important. But I do want to move on to the next question, because the perfect segue for teamwork and collaboration with different you know generations and a completely diverse group of people in your flights or wherever you're working, what's some of the ways you've? You know, what are some of the successful ways you've built camaraderie and teamwork in those sections?
Speaker 2:Well, at the end of the day, everybody wants to be valued. They want to know that what they're contributing has value and is bringing value to the group. So making sure that everyone, regardless of where they are in the generation spectrum or their background or anything, that they feel that and they know that. And then being able to leverage people's strengths, what they like. And that takes getting to know the people. But if you happen to know someone really likes doing digital design in their off time and like, hey, we need a new poster to advertise this, do you, would you be interested in designing this? They jump all over it, you know, and and they're not going to do it in a in a vacuum. So you get some people together and hear some ideas and then they see, no, they're putting together a way cooler design than any one of us could have done. So something as simple as that, but just knowing people and knowing what they like to do and what their strengths are.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Strengths are Absolutely. I have a question, and not to pick on anyone specifically, but I've had a few different troops throughout the years that are heavily engaged in video games, and I love video games, love to play some Call of Duty from time to time. But I wonder, when people are driving and going home and kind of being more isolated, if that, you know, creates any problems. So, when the people maybe are more introverted or want to stay at home, or how are you, have you been able to get them out and more social or, you know, be able to fulfill some of that camaraderie?
Speaker 2:um, being an introvert myself, um, I don't know. I would say I would just respect. You know that's what they like to do because I don't play video games, but I understand it's more interactive than when I was a kid growing up.
Speaker 2:You know you're connected to the internet, you're actually talking and interacting with other people, um, but you can even watch twitch or something like that, like you can watch people play videos, like so I don't feel like it's completely isolated, um, not like when when I would just go home after work and sit and read a book and people would try and invite me to go out and I'm like that's just not my thing, I don't want to, and eventually they stop asking. Then I start oh well, nobody's asking me anymore. So, um, but I, I think I, I don't, I don't know, is it really that bad of a thing? If after after a day of work, we want to decompress and the way they do it is now when it interferes with sleep and they're unable to come to work on time, then that's a whole different story.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I guess the example I would use keeping it somewhat vague is vague is some of the events you put together, even on duty times, where you try to do a barbecue or something and you have 10 or 20 percent of people actually showing up. Or even when given the option between doing the barbecue or work, you have the mass majority of the flight Like I'd rather just work, I don't even want to go to the barbecue. Do you have any tips or anything on that, getting them out?
Speaker 2:well, I, I don't know, um, I, I'll say my squadron. A couple years ago they wanted to do a christmas party and they said they wanted to make it jaws for theme because apparently that movie took place during christmas. I never, I never, watched it, but it it came to me in September and they were completely joking, asking if they could do that. I was like, yeah, make it happen. And they thought I was joking. I'm like, no, seriously, when are we doing this Jaws 4 themed party? And so it built momentum and a lot of people got really excited about it and it was a wonderful, wonderful turnout.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, maybe you had some of your, your more quiet introverts off in the corner, or maybe they come by, you know, look at everyone in their their shark costumes and then go back to their office. But, um, everybody was included, everyone was invited, everyone got to see the pictures. We had people from other squadrons trying to sneak in. You know it was I. I think if you get people to actually put it together, be involved in the planning process, then they feel more invested. Nothing against Booster Club, but instead of the five people on the Booster Club, they're like, oh, we put together this thing for you and everyone's like okay, cool, thanks, grab the food and leave.
Speaker 1:That's a good point, I guess. Back to like, uh, project management and whatnot. You got the key stakeholders and getting buy-in. Maybe the buy-in from the beginning is, uh, the important part.
Speaker 2:It's it's not cool if you suggest it, but it's cool if everyone else does exactly, and, and then I mean then they bring their friends in and they invite whoever they know, and then, because their friends are there, then they show up.
Speaker 1:That's good stuff. So next question back to command. In command, you face high-pressure situations. How do you manage stress and maintain a clear focus on your goals, and how can others use that strategy in their lives?
Speaker 2:clear focus on your goals and how can others use that strategy in their lives? Well, personally, I make sure I carve out time for myself, so I'm always reading, as you've gathered. I don't think a day has passed without me actually reading something, a chapter or something out of one of my books. But I also this was something that I learned from my first SEL. He said it was like my first day on the job. He said pick out some time that you want to go work out and block it off on your calendar so nobody else takes that time from you. I was like that's a great idea.
Speaker 2:I'll be honest up until that point I felt guilty for taking time to go work out, even though it's literally part of our jobs to work out and pass and maintain fitness standards. And that was the first time I didn't feel guilty. I was like, okay, every Tuesday and Thursday I'm going to get up early, I'm going to go run and I will do it and I will be in around 9 o'clock every Tuesday and Thursday. Next thing, you know everybody else, they know that's the thing and they don't feel bad working out. So there was that second order effect of people taking care of themselves in that aspect as well.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, I enjoy running. I haven't always loved running, but it helps clear my mind and keep me focused. And then, with goal setting, I think, as long as I can write it down, say, okay, bye, such and such day. This is when I expect to happen. I'm generally pretty good about staying on track. The other thing is being able to delegate, being comfortable delegating. You can't do everything yourself. If you did, you wouldn't have time to do the things that you need to take care of, like yourself and your family.
Speaker 1:That's a good one. I got to jump in on this. We talked about crossing over from NCO to officer and one of those things you do have to do is more of that delegation so that everyone can get done. Do you have any tips on feeling more at ease with that? Because maybe it's when we move from the tactical level or whatever it is, but it always feels like you're shirking your duty, which we know is not true, but I think we all have a little trouble with that. Do you have any advice on that?
Speaker 2:There's a lot of reasons why people are hesitant to delegate, but number one just learn to let it go. People are not going to do it the way you do it. That's just how it is. If you try to get people to do it the way you want them to do it, then you become a micromanager and you might as well just do it yourself.
Speaker 2:But I think, if you empower people to make decisions and be responsible within their scope of responsibility the same thing with the party they feel more and involved and more motivated and engaged in the whole process, and they'll surprise you. Uh, they may come up with a better way to do things than you just didn't see or didn't know. Um, but yeah, it's there. There's a fine line between here's all my work, you take care of it. Thank you, I'll see you when I get back from the golf course. And and then, um, but yeah, it's there, there's a fine line between here's all my work you take care of it.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'll see you when I get back from the golf course and and then there's um here, here's, here's the end goal. Come up with ways to get there. Let me know if you need help. Um, you can do it. Go forth and do great things, you know, but you're as a leader, you're not going to have time to do everything yourself.
Speaker 1:So maybe just the realization is the most important part. Next I wanted to ask is communication. So we touched on this briefly above. But every exercise I've ever ran, every after action report, always list communication as a problem, no matter what's going on. And I've been in numerous units and you know you go to the morning safety huddle but then you're asking airmen out in the clinic if they knew there was, I don't know, tccc training that day and they have no idea. So what are your advice or what have you seen work well on getting information not only up but down and, I guess, out left to right in the communication channels.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, communication has probably always been a problem, no matter when and where you are, I mean in 9-11, that was one thing that they identified when they were responding to the World Trade Center First responders were not on the same wavelength, literally with the radios and they could not communicate with each other, and so something as basic as that is a communication problem.
Speaker 2:So then back to your question of getting information out. I think you can send an email out. You can send it out 20 times and until it matters to that person, they will not receive that message. How many times have we told people that the medical clinic will be closed on such and such day and we advertise it and nobody pays attention to that. That person, I wasn't looking at that, I wasn't paying attention to that, but today's the day that I came in to get my meds and you guys are closed. So we do our best. So now, when we were talking about exercises like responses and stuff like that, I don't or I'm assuming you're talking about like a medical emergency management exercise perhaps.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:That kind of ties back into the 9-11 thing, where you want to make sure that the message is transmitted, it is received. You just have to keep working at it. I don't really have any, you know, 100 answers, um, I think everyone when they have an experience where, oh, we didn't get that message well, we didn't receive it well, we didn't transmit it well, they do better next time. But then you have a different group of people did you see any more?
Speaker 1:you know more positive results from you know releasing stuff at staff meetings or emails or catching people, or you know face to face, or is it just kind of like you said, depending on you know who the sender and receiver are.
Speaker 2:I think you know. When you go to a medical appointment, they ask what your preferred learning method is.
Speaker 1:Is it reading?
Speaker 2:writing, doing, watching. I think that's the same thing with communication. Some people just respond better to you talking to them face to face or an email or a text. So sometimes, depending on how important this message is, that you need to get out there email, follow up with an in-person. Hey, did you get a chance to see that? This is what it was about. It's easy to say, oh, at my staff meeting. I expect all my flight commanders to go out and talk about it at their staff meetings. Well, sometimes people aren't always there. I was asked if I would type up a summary of my staff meetings and send it out, and I'm kind of like I could, but I don't have time really to do that every single week. Do the best we can and if it, like I said, if it's extremely important, you will go back out there in person and, face to face, make sure that that message was received.
Speaker 1:Makes sense. Next one is core to mental fitness the whole purpose behind this show. So adaptability and resilience are core to the military. It's just in every kind of facet of what we do. How can we learn to embrace change and bounce back from setbacks in our personal and professional lives? Things don't go the way we want them to. Lives Things don't go the way we want them to.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you have to learn to give yourself grace if it's a mistake that you made personally. We're all here to learn. I still make mistakes to this day. It's not anything that ever will go away. As parents, we're not natural born parents we don't know everything. You can read all the books, but that doesn't mean the execution will go exactly how you expect it to. So just learn to give yourself grace on on that um, and control your controllables like if something happened that was completely out of your control. Don't dwell on it. There's nothing there's literally nothing you can do about it. So I think that's a big part of it.
Speaker 1:But you know, from a mental health perspective, it's always good to know where your resources are and to be willing to reach out to those resources, absolutely. So we kind of talked about a difficult time or something you went through and kind of what you learned about. To flip it kind of the other way, what would you say is like two, three or maybe even just one I don't know if it's, you can find one moment, but what would you say is like one of the biggest accomplishments or projects you've worked on and kind of what you learned from that experience as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, boy, any one project. You can mention a couple, I'm sure it's hard to narrow it down, the ones that pop right to the memory.
Speaker 2:Gosh, I don't know. I've done a lot of really cool things in the Air Force. For whatever reason, my deployment, I don't know. I mean, I've done a lot of really cool things in the Air Force and, for whatever reason, my deployment is kind of what comes to mind. You know, I got picked to go to a deployment to be a logistics officer and I had maybe been a logistics officer for about six months, maybe, maybe 12.
Speaker 2:But honestly, most of that time was focused on our medical contracts. So I really did not feel comfortable deploying as a logistics officer and my squadron commander at the time was like, don't worry about it, you've got guidance, you can always reach back. There's AFIs that you can always look at. But it'll be okay, you'll figure it out as you go. And he was right. And actually, even though they said I was going as a logistics officer, I was actually going as an air advisor. My team was responsible for advising the Iraqi Air Force Surgeon General and we helped him stand up like an aeromedical center. So that was pretty cool to do. And then I actually helped one of their nurses apply for a special visa to come to I think it was at Wright-Patt, maybe San Antonio, I don't remember where the schoolhouse was, but to learn how to do flight nursing, and so to this day he's still helping his fellow countrymen evacuate them to higher echelons of medical care.
Speaker 2:So I'd say I feel pretty proud about that.
Speaker 1:That's good stuff. It's awesome when the legacy lives on. That's good stuff. And the final command specific question is what are some of the biggest trends or challenges or things as we move forward? We kind of talked about past experience, but I'd like to know what you see as the future of AFMS, or whatever you want to highlight as we're going forward.
Speaker 2:I wish I had a crystal ball. There is a lot of change going on right now, and I know that by the time this is published we'll probably know what that change is going to look like.
Speaker 2:This next week is the senior leader workshop, so there's a lot that we expect to be discussed and revealed at that point. But I'd say a lot of the changes are at a higher level, which change has been constant in my entire career. But I'd say we've had a lot more of it just kind of back like an accordion, like all smashed together in the last five. You just take it one day at a time. You know I'm learning just like everybody else, and I remember when the Defense Health Agency became a thing and her woman was very nervous about that and it really wasn't. I don't think it was really that big of a deal when they were official. They're still trying to figure out what right looks like. So nothing happens that quickly. Nothing happens that quickly.
Speaker 1:And one thing I find interesting in the military, we say something's going away or something like that, and half the time it's like renamed and it's like the same. And so it is funny. We I guess human nature like to just get so excited and, you know, lose our mind and then really it's like renamed and everyone's coming to work and doing basically same thing. And then the last question I got for you, since the podcast is focused on, on mental fitness um, for our listeners out there, what's an actionable thing someone could take this day, this week, a tip or strategy, uh, to improve their own mental fitness?
Speaker 2:I think if you just take time for yourself, take time to either reflect or do something that you enjoy there's so many demands on us today. If you have a family or a pet, or even a plant, that's depending on you, there's a lot of your attention that is needed. Same thing at work and just taking time to slow down. If it's five minutes. I think that will help.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We just keep going faster and faster and sometimes we need to slow down. The last thing I ask from you is we talked about command today. What's the overall message or key takeaway? If someone was listening about to go into command or was more interested in command, what would be the key takeaway from today?
Speaker 2:Trust yourself, trust your experiences, and you're not doing it alone. You've got a lot of people there to help you and they want to see you succeed. Um, as a squadron commander, it's not about you, it's about the people that you're in charge of, that you're leading. Uh, I've seen a few squadron commanders not do well and it had, I think, everything to do with their ego. They let that get in the way. They made it about themselves and not the people in the unit.
Speaker 1:So don't do that. Yeah, don't do that, Definitely. I think you want to have a goal of you know doing good things and leading people, but sometimes, if your full goal is the rank, the title or the little command badge and your goal might be for the wrong reason, you might need to be doing it for the, or should be doing it for the people. Well, thank you so much for coming out. It was a great time.
Speaker 2:I want to encourage absolutely.
Speaker 1:I want to encourage all the listeners. Let me know what's good, bad, indifferent social media. Please check out the Buzzsprout website or the YouTube channel, depending on if you're looking for audio, podcast or videos, but that's all I have for this one. I love you all and see ya. Thank you.
