Transformative Fitness: Joe Rodonis on Career Transitions, Mental Resilience, and Holistic Health

How can a career in fitness transform not only your body but also your mind? Join us as we explore this fascinating question with Joe Rodonis, a fitness coach who made the bold move from a successful career in healthcare sales to follow his passion for human movement. Joe shares his inspiring journey, deep insights into preventative health, and how physical fitness can significantly elevate mental well-being. Discover how consistent physical and mental training can build resilience and leadership skills in personal relationships, and why earning resilience through dedication is so crucial.

Curious about how small, incremental changes can lead to big results? Joe dives into the Japanese principle of Kaizen and the importance of loving the process rather than just aiming for the outcome. From practical tips for weightlifting beginners to the necessity of mental toughness in achieving fitness goals, Joe's experiences offer invaluable lessons on holistic coaching that addresses both mind and body. We also delve into the challenge of teaching children the importance of practice and effort, shedding light on how to instill a growth mindset from a young age.

Balancing career transitions and self-care is no easy feat, but Joe has valuable advice to share. He recounts his transformative move to Cape Town and how it shifted his perspective on life, offering practical tips for finding mental escape in a fast-paced environment. From weekend getaways to the therapeutic benefits of float tanks, learn how to slow down and appreciate life's simple pleasures. Whether you're contemplating a leap from the corporate world or seeking to integrate your passions into your daily routine, this episode provides a wealth of wisdom on building a life that's both fulfilling and balanced.

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Chapters

• 0:48 Mental Fitness Training With Joe Rodonis
• 8:28 Earning Resilience Through Training
• 11:36 Exploration of Career Transitions and Self-Care
• 18:50 Building Confidence Through Weight Training
• 31:53 Building Confidence Through Fitness Training
• 37:37 Overcoming Mental Health Challenges Through Fitness
• 48:30 Exploring Passion and Balance in Career
• 51:27 Following Your Passion and Purpose
• 57:42 Discovering Purpose Beyond Societal Expectations
• 1:05:34 Authentic Podcasting and Self-Expression

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:48

Thank you, hey. I'm your host, nate Shearer, and welcome to the show. This is MindForce, the podcast for love, life and learning where your mind matters. Today we have Joe Rodonis, my coach. I shot off a random message in the survey after I've been working on Tonal, the wonderful workout mirror resistance band system Shot. This shot had no idea if it would work or not. A couple weeks, or maybe a couple months, have gone by. I didn't think anything of it. I'm like this guy is not going to reach out and sure enough, in my Gmail inbox there's an email saying yeah, let's do it. I was completely shocked. And so here he is. Today we're going to be talking about training, some of those lifting strategies for the general population, developing confidence through action, how we really do that in weightlifting and how we can achieve things as a team and together. I think we accomplish more together. But, joe, thanks for coming on the show. I'm going to give you the floor for opening comments.

Speaker 2: 2:22

No, it's a pleasure, brother. I appreciate you reaching out man and rocking with me on Tonal dude. Which program were you taking when you wrote that message in the heavy one?

Speaker 1: 2:30

House of Volume, house program were you taking when you wrote that message in the heavy one? House of volume, house of volume there it is my man, yeah that's a good one.

Speaker 2: 2:37

Yeah, that's like a personal training style of my man. That was like very, that was very near and dear to how I, how I like to get down I love when my legs shake so much I can't get up the stairs.

Speaker 2: 2:48

You know, it's great, it's you know you trained, you know you got some good work done, if that's the case, right, I had that happen yesterday. Yeah, dude, it's an honor though, man, I'm glad to be here. I appreciate you reaching out. I'll share a little bit about myself, just like background wise, that people know where I'm kind of coming from. Um, cause I think I think where I'm coming from with training is a slightly unique um with my perspective, cause I've been training professionally as a coach since 2018, when I came to New York city and before that.

Speaker 2: 3:15

You know I'm 38 years old now and before I came into coaching, I was working in healthcare sales. Um, I did finance um financial analysts for a good number of years product management and then sold nuclear medicine um and managed the sales team within pharma distribution for a very large fortune 20 healthcare company. So, like, my perspective with training gets anchored to that. So I'm very passionate about helping the general population just because I was that guy that was looking to get in shape when he was working and had different priorities Like that's where I came from and I was like looking for the right plan. Um always had a really strong work ethic and wanted to put my head down into something, but I could not figure out at that point in time, when I was like 23, 24, um, what the plan was, who I should listen to. People seem to be contradicting themselves constantly with with training advice and nutrition advice and this is before social media, you know. This was like magazines and website articles where you're trying to figure this stuff out. So I just followed my passion. Man made it, made a radical shift, ended up quitting my job and followed it to this obsession that I have with human movement and just energy levels and showing up for yourself and being your best.

Speaker 2: 4:27

So training to me is a one. It's preventative right Understanding my side of healthcare and understanding the hospital system in America. It's reactive right. We could. There's no need to sugarcoat it. You get in there and it is because you are sick already.

Speaker 2: 4:43

And I just kind of vowed to myself why would I want to get there? Why wouldn't I try to do everything in my power to be as healthy as I can for as long as I can and mitigate these risks, but then take it a step further, like I can just maintain my health, but why not elevate it? Why not raise the standards to where I can feel my best and become my strongest and see what I'm capable of, and I think that translates into who you can become as a human being. You can just become stronger mentally, physically, and be a better leader within your household. It doesn't have to be some big, extravagant thing when we talk about leaders. It could just be like how you are with your partner, with your significant other, with your friends, with your family, things like that. So that's kind of where I come from too.

Speaker 1: 5:32

I mean, I really started this podcast Focus on Mental Health or I like to call it Mental Fitness on this show because it's an ongoing thing, that's always going and mental health kind of has a negative connotation it's either a building or a psychologist or whatever Mental fitness is like, always working and continue to work on that, and so I love that you mentioned that, because we should always be working on that. You don't check in to mental health when it's your worst day, you know you. You minimize things and talk through things as they occur and I think that's great. As we talked about this mind body connection. You don't walk in and like one run on the treadmill one day and you're like I'm good. Then you just walk out and like that's it. Never like that's how it works.

Speaker 1: 6:06

It's consistency so so if we're gonna apply that to the human body, right, the mind and your brain and mental health is a part of that body. So I want to give you an opportunity to fire a question off to me before we get into the warm up for you.

Speaker 2: 6:20

Yo dude, this is this is always my question, man, because this is what I'm obsessed about and I, just like what we were talking about earlier, I told you I'm starting my podcast back up. It's called Athletes Pursuit, and this is where I come from. Man is understanding what training means to you, and I'm more obsessed with, like people that are not in the industry, that are doing something else with their careers, and how they use training to make themselves better in their life. So what are you training for? How do you train and how do you use exercise to help yourself get better with what you do?

Speaker 1: 6:52

I think the biggest thing for me is building it into the routine and kind of like what I just talked about, that consistency. So my workout right now is in the afternoon, so me and my wife have to pick up the kids and so we've kind of distinguished who's picking up who. So she drops them off now and I pick them up. So my routine is to go to work, work the whole day and then drive over, pick up the kids and then they kind of work on reading, a little bit of homework, and then I jump on tonal and so that hour they're working on their thing, I'm working on mine.

Speaker 1: 7:20

But I think the biggest thing is resiliency and in the military we use it a lot and sometimes, unfortunately, I feel like we've become a buzzword and we use it more than we should, or maybe not when we should, or maybe just overuse in general, I'm not sure, but it seems like it's too buzzword. But you've mentioned it in a lot of yours and you even had an opening one on on one of them where you talked about, you know, resilience and it comes from doing a difficult thing and realizing you got to the other side. So those ones where it's not fun, it's difficult and you're pushing, think that's just so important um, throughout your whole life. So when you do have the difficult thing at work, or you know you have, you know someone pass away or you know fill in the blank these bad things that are gonna happen, it's not if, but when you're able to push through those, even though they're not directly related.

Speaker 1: 8:04

Um, so I think in those sets where you're in, the, the longer sets, that the 10th or 11th or 12th, uh, rep there and you're just kind of over it, but you have to, you just got to push through and you feel good on the outside. So I think that's the biggest thing for me is that resiliency. To be able to push through and then feel good is, you know you got to hit the shower or I hit the pool or whatever to be able to cool down, but being able to accomplish things is really building that resilience. I think sometimes people want resilience by, you know, for free. It's like, oh, I just want it.

Speaker 1: 8:34

Well, yeah, that's cool, but you don't just get it Like you got to earn it, you got to put money into the bank, you got to put those reps into the bank or you know whatever the metaphor may be, but it feels like too much now, like, yeah, I want that, we can't just want it. You got to, got to, got to trust the process. So that's what I would say resiliency.

Speaker 2: 8:51

I love everything that you just said, man. That's everything I relate to. That heavy, you have to earn it. I say that all the time, man, like confidence is earned, like this idea that you can fake it so you make it or get some type of result without putting in some kind of effort. That's what I love about training is that it's very black and white, right, you're either doing the work or you're not. And even if you're doing the work but you're not getting the right result, then that just your body doesn't lie to you, right, you can't lie to it Like we lie to ourselves, we say things to ourselves, but like you're, what your physical ability is is exactly what you deserve. Like you get what you train for and I cannot love the clarity of that more than what you get in your training. It's like this micro chasm for everything else in your life and there's nothing perfect about it, man. Like you said, the resiliency of it, that's the whole game. It's like maybe I didn't have a great session today, same as maybe I didn't have a great day today, maybe I didn't produce the best in my work, but what do you stop? So we attack it again tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 9:51

Like learn, make a small improvement I was just reminded of, like a Japanese, basically like value, kaizen. Like you know, we we hear the word Kaizen and I just saw something about that and reminded me the meaning of what that word actually means, and it's it's not thinking about things in terms of perfect or perfection, it's about small improvements that you can make every single day. So it's these small steps that you can take that lead to a bigger picture, and that's how I see training. You know, like when I first started, my form was terrible. I don't know what I'm doing with programming, I don't have structure right, it's random chaos, but you have to start somewhere, and so you just stay in the fight and you just learn and make adjustments, and it is that simple. But you have to have like this coachable, curious mindset where you just want to continue to learn and make these small adjustments over time.

Speaker 1: 10:44

I think the most difficult part is you have to love the process, but people want to love the result. Right, that's a completely different thing.

Speaker 2: 10:52

But that's the whole point, man. Teach yourself to not do that. Like it's a mental training that you have to teach yourself. I get the need for a result. I mean, I want that too, like I want to launch a business and have it be perfect right now and like everything exactly the way I want it. But in what world? It just doesn't exist, man.

Speaker 1: 11:10

Yeah, I think it shows up a lot in kids, because I see my son, you know he's six and he's working on stuff and he wants to be, you know, perfect at kicking, you know the ball or whatever it is on the very first kick. And you know, we know, because we've been around long enough like that's not how it works. But it's like so hard to articulate that and get that into him. Like, oh, you got a workout. He's like, no, I want to be good. Like oh, like you got to put in the time. But yeah, let's move on to the warm-up. Try to fire off a few fun questions. What's your favorite and least favorite tonal move?

Speaker 2: 11:42

it's probably more than the same. It's the same as everybody else, very, very in split squat. Everybody hates it, but you know I have this love for it. If you take my programs, you know I do it in almost every single program because it's hard, it works.

Speaker 1: 11:58

I wish you wouldn't. Yeah well, just kidding, it's good stuff. I ain't going nowhere. I'm a hospital administrator, so I'm healthcare administration. It's awesome that you had some healthcare in there. So I wanted to ask you, being from the healthcare industry, how did you kind of make that leap from personal training or over to personal training? You said it was kind of that thing that you love, but how did that actually come about?

Speaker 2: 12:22

It kind of started with just a natural curiosity of things. Man, I think I studied finance in college and I did that because, honestly, I didn't know what to do. My father was encouraging me to do that as a major. He was truly his logic Cause I didn't know what my passion was at the time. And he, he worked with his hands, he was a contractor, had his own business and he was like look, you can do this your whole life, but I'd rather you figure out ways to understand money, understand investments and get more into the office where you don't have to rely on your body, which, like fast forward. It's hilarious that I'm a coach. They use my body for my work. But he was like, if you learn finance, you can do whatever you want, like you can create your own business in your own life was kind of his logic and so I followed that. But I always had this passion for human movement. I just didn't know how to make money off of that At the time, in like 2006, 2008, when I graduated, I thought it was a hobby.

Speaker 2: 13:19

I didn't understand that I could really monetize that into a true career, to be honest, and so I started to try to get in shape when I was doing sales and doing my work in corporate, and because I couldn't find clarity, I just decided to get certified as a personal trainer in my part time. So I wasn't trying to do it as a profession at that time, I was like maybe 25 and I just got certified to learn for myself. But I ended up quitting my job. I got this opportunity to move to Africa and you know, that's. That's the whole story in itself. But I was like let's just take this leap and it was the right time and I just followed my excitement. To be very honest, that was it. That was what I use as my North Star man and everything led to the to the gym and I just chased huge.

Speaker 2: 13:59

I mean talking about a kid from Chicago, illinois, who's never lived, you know, anywhere other than America. So it was culturally different. The way of life is different. It is a third world country. I was in Cape Town but it's very much a third world country. Like you prepay for your electricity, we were there during a water drought. There were threats of even drinking water being tapped out for a period of time when I was living there.

Speaker 2: 14:33

Like seeing the political challenges and things that they do is just very different. But also the upside was dude. Seeing how they live, they're so much more in touch with slowing down and appreciating the things around them. They're very in touch with nature. Cape Town is a beautiful city because you got the beaches, you got the oceans next to you and the mountains behind you and you got vineyards and wine country. It's all very close by. So they're they love to just like wake up in the morning and see the sunrise and stop work early so you can go enjoy a sunset and enjoy a glass of wine and like. In that way it really made me like appreciate more just the little things in life, man, just like slowing down and appreciating what's around you a little bit more that's interesting.

Speaker 1: 15:15

It makes me think of a question I've asked in the show before, so I'll ask you since you, you've lived there and had that slower, I feel like in the us you know we're into, you know fast food you can google and answer and receive an answer in seconds everything's faster, faster. What are some actionable things that listeners could take and do right now? Do you journal or what do you do to find ways? Living in New York another fast place city what have you found ways to slow down, not go faster?

Speaker 2: 15:43

It's a really good question. It is tougher here. We're more fast paced in. New York is the Mecca of that, you know, and I'm I'm in a fast paced environment here with what I do for work, so it's more of a mental escape for me. Um, I don't have to physically remove myself all the time. You know. It's not just about like going on vacations and trips, which sometimes is great. Sometimes you got to leave the city, go upstate. So we'll do a couple of things If it's. We've been in the city too long, we just need a break. We go upstate, run a cabin, my fiance and I with the dogs. We just slow down and we just get to a quiet place for like a few days and sit in silence and just move at our pace.

Speaker 2: 16:18

But if I need something to recharge, it goes to meditation. Man, so like I've been going into float tanks recently. So at least once a month I do a float tank, which is it forces you and helps you. It's like a guide into a deep state of meditation and you can be in there for an hour and it really helps you like unravel your thoughts and get very still and silent and you walk out of there every time I walk out of there feeling incredibly refreshed and just rejuvenated. It's like I just got done with this beautiful vacation, in a way. So that's the kind of thing I do.

Speaker 2: 16:49

How long do you float? Just an hour, but it feels like 15 or 20 minutes. You don't even realize because it's sensory deprivation. So you go into this tank and if you do it properly, the lights go completely out. It's fully dark, there's no music. You can use music, but if you do it right, there's no music and you float in absence or absence salt. So you feel weightless and you lose, uh, sense, senses with your eyes, with your hearing, with your smell. So it feels like you're just lost in this floating space. Man you're, you hit theta waves in your brain, which is a, a dream state, so you feel like you're literally just floating in and out of consciousness in a way. But you're awake, but you're awake, but you're not. It's really wild. You know that when you start taking a nap and you start kind of floating into that sleep, but you're kind of like twitching. Yeah, that's where it's at man.

Speaker 1: 17:44

That's interesting. I wanted to ask you in one of your lessons.

Speaker 2: 17:55

You had said it'd be hilarious if they asked me to teach yoga. So have you ever taught yoga? Not professionally, man, not professionally. Would you I? I don't, I don't, maybe maybe never say no, I love the discipline, I love learning about it, but I would have to uh, knowing myself, man, I'd have to go somewhere like Bali and really study this stuff. I can't half-ass this stuff.

Speaker 1: 18:15

That's awesome. And the last warm-up question I have to ask. It's completely off-topic, but what would you say is the biggest misconception about modeling? That is glamorous.

Speaker 2: 18:27

It is a ridiculous industry. It is not glamorous at all. It's really wild and it's a hustle man. It's not what people think it is. I will tell you that right now I would not recommend it as a career. To be quite honest with you, it's a fun hobby and some people really make it, but generally we're talking 90%, 98% of people Yo, it's a hobby man.

Speaker 2: 18:50

What was your favorite shoot? Did you have one? Yeah, I've had. I've had some cool opportunities. I will say when you're young it's a cool experience, like I almost wish I did international modeling modeling when I was younger, because it is a really cool way to travel and see the world. There's more opportunities there, um, so I didn't take it more as like a career at that point. I would take it more as like an experience, like a way to go see the world, world. So that's how I did Cape town.

Speaker 2: 19:12

Um, I've been on a shoot with David Gandy. That was personally my favorite shoot that I've ever been on. Like David Gandy is, if you don't know him, he's like the face of Dolce Gabbana. He's, you know, mr GQ in the UK. Uh, very suit and tie kind of guy. So I've always respected that and meeting him. He's nothing but a class act man Like in real life. I was not disappointed. I was like this dude is, he's humble and he's the top model in the world he has been for his time, so he has every right to be, you know, you think, maybe arrogant or full of himself, not even close. He's very grounded, smart businessman. Like there was a lot to learn from that guy. So it was a cool day, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 19:50

Okay, we're gonna get into the meat of it. So, introduction to weightlifting Can you share some weightlifting strategies tailored for the general population, emphasizing that safety and effectiveness for beginners? For the beginners specifically?

Speaker 2: 20:02

Yes, for the beginners specifically, I simplify the entire thing. I think one is simple, works and just get very, very basic with your movement pattern. So you start body weight, like it's really that simple to me, there's no need to overcomplicate it. You master a pushup, you master a body weight squat, you master like a hinge pattern, like a single leg RDL, with just your body. You learn how to hinge, you learn how to push, pull and squat and lunge. It's that simple.

Speaker 2: 20:30

Because, if you think about the basis of weightlifting, the only reason that weights exist is to add resistance to what we're doing. Once you master a pushup, well, you can do 50 in a row. Well then, to make it more challenging, we need to add resistance or velocity. So people move into plyo pushups or you move into a bench press to add weight. That's all that we're doing with the squat. You're just putting weight on your back.

Speaker 2: 20:53

So doesn't it make sense? You got to master these movements before you put weight on these things. So that's number one. Might take you a week, might take you two months, but like, just work at your pace are slow. Build this foundation with strength first and then move into more specific niches later. So master general things first. So squat niches later. So master, general things first. So squat bench, overhead press hinge, which is like your deadlifts and lunges, strength training. That's what you do, and you started a very light weight and you can deadlift. As a beginner, you start with a weight that you can absolutely control, lighter than you think, and then over time you add volume, which means you add repetition, start at like three sets of 10 for all these movements, and you slowly increase the reps and or increase the weight just in a manageable fashion. It can be that simple.

Speaker 1: 21:44

And the nice part is some people are like, oh, I don't need to, my work doesn't require it, or different things like that. But these are all functional. You have kids or dogs or fill in the blank. There's so many different functional movements where it's going to help you bring groceries in or whatever it is. So it's awesome that you can start with that body weight and start advancing from there. It's going to help you throughout your life. It will.

Speaker 2: 22:07

It will. This is how we move. If we can't master a basic human movement, like life is going to, it can get challenging as you get older and you got to think that'll compound with time. So, like when you're young, you can get away with a lot of stuff, but as we get older, it's like investing in a 401k or like investments the earlier that you can start, the more compound interest that you're going to get when you're older. So but if I start when I'm 50 with strength training, it's going to be very it's going to be much more difficult, like it just will. But if I started building a base when I was 15 or 20, and I continue to do this consistently at a steady pace, three days a week, four days a week, whatever you can do, but you stay consistent for weeks on end, by the time you're 50, 60, it's you know. You're just kind of you're in a groove already. You're not starting something new, you're just maintaining something.

Speaker 1: 22:53

Yeah, one of the things I love that you say it's a non-negotiable, which is such a great thing. You know those days where you know you're putting your shoes on, not feeling it, the energy's not there or whatnot, and so that's a nice mantra short in the back here. You know my head at least it's like it's not, it's not a choice, like it is gonna happen. Um, let's just get in there. So non-negotiable is a good thing to just kind of repeat in there, it's, it's gonna happen. I think you keep the habit nate.

Speaker 2: 23:20

but when people say, like yo, I don't feel like it today, my energy is low, look, sometimes you, sometimes you take a rest day, right, there's self-awareness in that game. But, like, honestly, you keep the routine. Like if my routine is lifting four days a week but I just feel tired on a week, you still go. You just reduce the intensity. I don't have to go as heavy that I did last week when I felt great, keep the movements, but reduce the weight and just keep it light and feel good with it. But you don't stop.

Speaker 1: 23:47

Yeah, that's one question I did have for you. I guess it's everybody's personal, you know awareness and things like that. But I have heard, you know David Goggins or whatnot. You know some people are like run through it or you know whatever. And I think that you do need to push through things and you can accomplish a lot more than your body or your mind believes you can. But at what point? Like hey, I'm hurt, or like how do you? I mean, I guess that's just you know fine tuning and really listening to yourself on when you don't push.

Speaker 2: 24:15

Yeah, it is. That's a consistent program. This is like what I do. And then one week where it's like a deload, so I'm still lifting but it's such a much lighter percentage. You know it's less volume but you keep the habit, habit as you are seasoned.

Speaker 2: 24:46

I think there's like two types of people, man. There's people that are like like me, where you're like obsessed with the gym, like you're going, this is something that you do. And then there's people that are getting into it and they're finding their way in the gym right and it almost feels like a task. For people like myself, it's more difficult to get me to take a rest day. So I have more of an inclination to be like dude, stop, like I need to tell myself actually more to like take the day. Like if you feel sluggish and tired, stop, cause I'm in there probably six days a week, so it's like chill.

Speaker 2: 25:14

But the reverse usually happens. Where people are getting into the habit. Where it's not you taking an appropriate rest day, it's more. Is it you making a mental excuse to not go in because you're just dreading something. That is a very different thing than being like I need to not go in today because I need my body to recover, and that's just smart training versus making an excuse to not go Cause you're dreading the action that you have to push through. That's where you use the physical to strengthen the mental. So there is for four people, on a certain point in their journey, there is something very much to be said to push through those days where you're like I don't want to do this, that's when you absolutely go in and do this.

Speaker 1: 26:00

Yeah, that makes sense, which is the perfect segue to the next question how does engaging in weight training help individuals develop confidence not only in their physical abilities, but also in other aspects of their lives? So this is really that mind-body connection. It goes back to what?

Speaker 2: 26:15

I think we were talking about earlier, nate. It's like you need receipts, man, like confidence needs receipts. You know I've said this before in some of my classes receipts. You know I've said this before in some of my classes. Like, I think you talk about confidence. You talk about discipline and consistency. And how do you develop the self confidence? It's earned, like you said that today and I love that. It's the absolute truth.

Speaker 2: 26:41

Discipline, to me, is a skill. It's not something that you're not born with it. You're not just born with strength, you create it. So you have to demand it from yourself. And how can you do that if you're not consistent? How can you develop confidence with nothing to look back on as proof?

Speaker 2: 26:59

So if you were just appearing to be confident without anything to back it up, without anything in your own mind I'm not even talking about how you talk to other people, but in your mind you know that you've not done these things, but you're carrying yourself in a way as if you did. That's not confidence, that's arrogance, that's delusion. So you can fool yourself and you can walk around with that, but you're not fooling anybody else, because that's a different kind of energy, because confidence is silent. Arrogance is loud and it seeks attraction and validation. And confidence is something internal, man. You walk around silently and just like with, with a strength, because you're like I don't need you to validate me on what I know that I've done, you can't take that away. Who can take that away from you? That's what confidence is. Yeah, that's a really good point.

Speaker 1: 27:54

And I think you've mentioned that on one of them too like be quiet, be confident, because the loud person's probably the one in the wrong.

Speaker 1: 28:00

And I'm like, oh yeah, I've seen a lot of people the loudest person at the meeting and whatnot, and just because they're the loudest one doesn't mean they're right. Most of the time it feels like they're not right and the loud voice stress is really to overcompensate for the lack of knowledge or lack of something, and I think that's something that's really important. Like I'm super appreciative of all the opportunities I've gotten in the military to go through difficult times. You know, even back to basic training and waking up at 4am and these different things, and you don't value them at the time. Of course you're like this sucks, I want to move on, but I've had to move and pick up and take the family and you know, gone through a lot of these things. But you get to the other side after a difficult time and things never go right and your stuff's missing and you know the. You know moves aren't aren't fun in general, but you know.

Speaker 1: 28:43

I've lost you know my grandparents and you know my dad and you know I go through some co-parenting joys and you know a divorce and some other things, and I just don't think that I would have been fully equipped or as equipped as I was. I mean, you're not fully equipped, that's probably the wrong word but as equipped as I was to be able to handle those things. And so sometimes people like, oh, it seemed like you took that too well or whatnot, and it's like not that I took it too well. You know one, I'm going to be an optimist, I'm going to be positive, but I've gone through all these difficult things so I'm like this too shall pass. I mean, I guess that's oversimplifying it, but it will. You know it will come to a close. You know good or bad.

Speaker 2: 29:21

So yeah, I mean, it's it. That's what confidence is, is a faith in your own ability to figure it out, because life is very uncertain For all of us. Man, if you think that you know what's coming in the future, it's you. You don't. You're lying to yourself Like I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. You know, I have an idea, I have a vision, I have things that I'm working towards. Right, you have, you can piece together this probably will happen. It's probable. Right, things pivot constantly.

Speaker 2: 29:46

So there was a quote that I remember that stuck with me, man, when I was going through this stuff and I was trying to develop my own self-confidence and I struggled with that when I was young and I struggled with battling with moments of uncertainty. I really struggled with that young Um. There was a quote of a bird sitting on a branch does not worry about the branch breaking because it has faith in its own wings. So you're sitting there in life and I'm not worried. You know that's what true confidence is.

Speaker 2: 30:17

It can go wrong. You're sitting where you are, and even things that are outside of your control can and will go wrong, like I'm sure you can pull examples in every single one of our lives where that has happened but you figure it out. And the more that those types of things happen and, like you mentioned, you get to the other side, that is also a form of developing confidence, because it's like, yeah, this was really difficult but we got to the end of it, and so the more examples you have of that, you're like I can figure this out, I got. I got a faith and an ability.

Speaker 1: 30:48

Absolutely. And it's funny in the military. In another episode we had talked about, we referenced the rebel band, which I never really understood. It's like, oh, you bounce back, and whatnot. But another guest came on, laura. She gave an awesome metaphor that I'd never heard. But she went through some mental health stuff and actually went inpatient for a while, and so they told her the paper plate method. And so if you have one paper plate, that means you've been through one difficult time and you put a big thing of spaghetti on it. That spaghetti is going to the floor. But you've been through a whole bunch, you've built up multiple paper plates and now, okay, give me a big piece of meatloaf or whatever. I mean weird reference metaphor. But the plates are those difficult times and so, like you want a fat stack of paper plates so you can weather the next, you know, big heaping meal. So I thought that was better than rubber band, because the rubber band never made sense to me.

Speaker 2: 31:37

But yeah, paper plates you got to build those up.

Speaker 1: 31:40

You only get them from those receipts. Like you said, you got to earn the paper plate. You're not going to be handed one.

Speaker 2: 31:45

That's a cool way to put it. Man, I've never heard that and I do. I like that. It makes sense.

Speaker 1: 31:51

I love me a good visual. So yeah, the next question I had for you is someone who has achieved success in weight training, even though you went through some of those difficult times. How do you approach helping others achieve their fitness goals and build confidence in them now?

Speaker 2: 32:04

Yeah, by doing difficult things. That's the whole reason why I coach the way that I do. On Tonal and my background too. Before Tonal was I trained at a gym called Tone House in New York City and it was voted the most difficult workout in America, and so I learned a lot from the founder of that gym, alonzo Wilson. He's a great friend of mine, he's a mentor of mine. I think he's a brilliant program. He programs very differently than I've ever seen. It's very creative and it's meant to be incredibly challenging. So it physically pushes you and I saw when I was teaching those classes for five years, I literally saw hundreds of thousands of individuals take these programs.

Speaker 2: 32:47

And so if you think about it almost like this experiment where I have a control group with the programming, it's consistent, and then through that program and I would see different individuals at class times take the same thing and you see how people respond to difficult moments. And it could be very, very simple. It could just be like a sprint down and back, but you're super tired or I'm making you bear, crawl down and back and I'm like touch this line. You would see certain people that would not touch that line, that would cut before, and if they weren't doing form correctly or it was difficult, they would start to stand up and walk or cut the lap. And I'm like. You are telling me something about yourself right in this moment. And peace, the right, the wrong. Certain people would look at that and just wash it off. They just be like, no, that's not true, I'm a. I'm like you. You're not listening to yourself like. This is a small moment, but I promise you and this is true how you do anything is how you do everything. It is completely true. So you have a chance to change the tempo in your training. You you have a set a new tone in your training If you start to recognize that with yourself.

Speaker 2: 33:48

The strongest people that I ever saw in these classes had nothing to do with physical ability, because physical ability came. That's a skill we can teach that. You can learn that Some people are more naturally gifted than others physically and have more of a body awareness. That is beside the point. We can learn this stuff. I can teach you a deadlift. I can teach you a bear crawl Enough time. But it's up to you. Are you mentally tough enough to stay in the fight or do you quit on yourself? That's what I looked for. So in the training and how I coach at Tonal is exactly like that. It's like this is tough, but are you just going? Are we going to back down so you don't do great at it today? Who cares? Why wouldn't you attack it again next week? And why wouldn't you small steps and attack it again the next week and the next week? And that is what develops confidence.

Speaker 2: 34:43

So if I've had a great example of someone on Tonal, her name's Katie. Strength in numbers is her handle man. She takes a lot of my classes and programs and she could not do a pushup really properly when she first started training with me. She just stayed in the fight. She would hit me up constantly. What's the form? Look at my. Does this look right? What do I need to work on? Dude? She just chipped away. This woman is doing plyo push-ups now like just smooth as butter, just boom, boom, boom, rocking these things out. And I'm telling you, a year and a half ago, two years ago, kneeling push-ups, struggle, but it's like that's the point. She didn't quit, man, and it it can be that simple.

Speaker 1: 35:20

It's like I gotta want this until until I get it, you don't just stop yeah, I think a great example of that is the Navy SEALs, cause you see, in Simon Sinek or Jocko's books he talks about the Navy SEALs and a lot of people are assuming it looks like you know Captain America and whatnot. But most of the Navy SEALs are fairly normal quote unquote looking and they're super humble and so it's funny. You think they'd be like really arrogant and whatnot, but they have just a completely different mindset and mentality. So they're not necessarily overly athletic and rip, but like they will sit in this stuff when they're cold, wet, when the water's washing up, and they will sit side by side with their teammates and make sure their teammates make it through those events. And that's just something you can't teach. I don't think so.

Speaker 2: 36:09

Uh, sometimes I think that mindset is you can teach it, but they go through some to get it.

Speaker 2: 36:14

You know, that's kind of my point like they, that's, that's kind of I do I have. How can you not have respect for navy seals first and foremost? And they're like what they go through is unbelievable, like that's the ultimate level of using the physical to create the mental disciplines that they do, at the highest level that I can even imagine. So the confidence, the reason why they're so silent, they had to go through that to get there. So it's anchored in the humility of they know how much it sucked to achieve that. But arrogant would be like loud and be like, ah, it's easy, I can do this stuff all day, but it's like you don't see that man. They're like, yeah, this is, this is hard, this is uncomfortable. I've been through this. So there's like a respect, there's a respect factor for it.

Speaker 1: 36:56

Which I think goes to your point, is they don't have to answer to anybody. No, they've done it. So you started to touch on it, but I don't know if you have another one. I wanted to see if you could share a memorable experience of having someone achieve their fitness goals, and how did it impact not only them, but also impact you as the instructor. Sometimes it's interesting to see how the impact comes back to the teacher.

Speaker 2: 37:21

I've had. Well, I've been blessed to have several a ton in my career and it's what keeps me staying in as a coach man. It's like the reward of seeing other people reach a new spot in their life or achieve their goal, or just take what you've been teaching and carry it forward. One of the earliest memories of me doing one-on-one like I was very new to the game at this point there was this woman, maddie, who I met in a class and we started working one-on-one. She had a dancer background so I noticed like this huge mental toughness with her. She was taking classes, she would not quit, just like I was talking about earlier but she wanted to compete in some of these events and she was struggling to keep up with pace with like the speed of the other competitors. So I was like we need to introduce strength training. So we started doing one-on-one work. She was not lifting at the time, so this was like a new experience for her and we had to go through all of it and she was one of the best clients, truly to the day, I've ever had. This woman would run through a wall If I told her to work through failure. She would not drop the weight until, like, her arms fell off. I had to literally tell her to drop. I've never worked with someone like that.

Speaker 2: 38:32

The toughness that she had was just one of the highest I've ever seen. But she got so, so good at lifting. She was just coachable. She was hungry. Everything I said she was just do.

Speaker 2: 38:44

She got to a level where she started winning these competitions, getting in the top three, four every single time, and when she got better, it just made me a better coach. Because I was like, at that time especially, I was like I need to learn new things and push her in different ways and get even more intentional with my approach. As we're training for an entire year together, coach, as we're training for an entire year together, because now it's like it's not just one month, right, I need to think about how I'm setting her up with month one into month six and then how month six gets us ready for month 12. Like you're very connected to there's a lot of thought that goes into that. So I love those relationships where who I'm working with pushes me just as much to be better and back and forth. Like I love that relationship, man, you know you, you pull out the best of each other.

Speaker 1: 39:32

Yeah, that's awesome. Her getting better made you better. Um, I'd like to ask you a question. Um, so what do you think in your life has been your biggest obstacle? Uh, fitness or, you know, mental health, like just in your life. And how did you overcome that? How did you work through?

Speaker 2: 39:49

it? It's a good question, man. If I'm being honest, the biggest thing that I've battled truly is my mental health. I have struggled with that. I struggled with it for a long time when I was young. So when I was like young, going through sports, you know, I had such a tie to like performance and everything was very outcome based. So when I played baseball as a kid, you know, when we review the game it was always about the stats, how I hit. If I went three for four, the question was, why didn't we go four for four? How could we have done better, which is fine. But I became obsessed with that outcome-based type thing and then carrying my worth to some level of performance, and that was hard. So I struggled with some self-acceptance and self-confidence when I was young. I was a pretty insecure kid. So I started going to therapy when I was 26 consistently, and I've been seeing the same therapist now for, uh, you know, almost seven, eight years still still talking to her to just develop that uh acceptance with yourself. You know, um, I think it's incredibly important. So that's why. That's why I coach the way I do, man, because I didn't have someone that Everybody coached me on physical disciplines, how we lift sets and reps, skill behavior.

Speaker 2: 41:16

Here's how we hit a baseball, here's the technique and the mechanics. Nobody was talking about the mentality when I was growing up, man. Nobody talked about why you're so hard on yourself. How do we calm down, how do you develop a self-confidence in your own mind, your self-talk. Nobody brought it to my attention, not a single coach. Nobody in my family was never, never discussed.

Speaker 2: 41:38

So I became very obsessed with human psychology and understanding, like why we do what we do, how the mind impacts the body, because I think for many people those are the barriers that people have in their lives is battling with things like imposter syndrome and being scared to take risks and not trusting yourself. Those are more our limitations, because I think if you can master that, you know the rest are just tactics, man. That's why I say that with training Like, I can write you a program. It's sets and reps. Three sets of this, three sets of that, this many repetitions. Say that with training Like, I can write you a program. It's sets and reps. Three sets of this, three sets of that, this many repetitions. That's easy, but we have programs available for every single person on the planet right now, and so that's not the problem. The problem lies in the execution and with your belief in how you do it. So it's a little bit deeper.

Speaker 1: 42:21

Absolutely Perfectly said. I mean that's why I started the podcast. The original aim was going to be serious conversations to play on my name, but I didn't want to. I didn't want to make it not too unserious, even though that probably lines up my personality pretty well, but I didn't want to downplay. But I think that's what's important.

Speaker 1: 42:41

Like it's so odd to me that the physical body we'll talk about reps and how many and what we're working on. We'll carry gym magazines and you know that's like an open topic and it has been for however long, but for some reason, like we can't say, oh, I'd like to slow down, I'd like to meditate, I'd like to sit in the park, I'd like to. Oh, I saw this new technique on. You know, you know mindfulness or something like those don't get discussed. But you know sets and reps all day. But it's like we need to transition where talking about taking care of your mental is just the same. So I'm curious, what would you say to someone that's listening right now? It's like, hey, I can't go to therapy, for you know the long list of the stigma. Like what do you say to that person? That won't start.

Speaker 2: 43:23

Get over it and start. That's first and foremost. Find someone that you can relate to and do it. I'll talk about some things that you can do if you don't want to go to therapy, but talk to different therapists and interview them and get rapport with somebody. You have to find someone, first and foremost, that you really connect with and trust, or else you're not going to get there. You're not going to believe their advice. So, like, you have to get trust first and respect out of the person that's on the other side. So that's a process just like finding a coach. Right, you got to find it's like finding a mentor.

Speaker 2: 43:57

And then therapy to me was not about. It's got this negative connotation. Sometimes I feel like that's going away. But, like we with my sessions, we only talked about getting better. I just talked. It was more like how can I become a better human? It wasn't this is wrong with me, those weren't the conversations. It was just yo, I want to operate at this level, so how do I get out of my own way? So it was just like this help to so I can be better in business, so that I can perform better, so I could do it peacefully. So I could do it where I don't have so much stress in my own mind, so I could just knock out and live life the way that I want to man. So I encourage everybody to do it. I think it's important for maintenance as well, not just for big issues to come up. It's something that you do consistently, like anything else.

Speaker 2: 44:38

If you're not going to do that, develop self-awareness journal. I know you hear it all the time, but are you and forgive me for swearing Nate, but are you doing it? There's a difference between understanding something consciously and then actually doing something. So it's simple, but are you journaling your thoughts? So this isn't about writing what you think you should be writing. It's literally getting down and being like what am I thinking about today?

Speaker 2: 45:03

I've done this for years, especially when I was battling. When I was younger, I didn't understand the thoughts in my own head, so I would write things down of I think about something like this. I feel this way about something. Then you can start to ask why do I feel this resistance towards something? When I wanted to become a coach or, honestly, I wanted to become like when I was younger a model, an actor and get into fitness I didn't know how these things tied together and I would question myself. I'd be like you don't belong there, man. Who are you? You've been studying finance. Why should you do these things? You've never done them before. So I would write that down. I'd be like, why do I believe that? Like, why can't I do that? And it's you just answer overnight. I struggled with that for years, but you keep hammering and answering the question.

Speaker 2: 45:50

And then three is meditate, which, again, we've heard. I'm not telling you anything new, but have you done it? And so when I've been in Cape Town, for example, I was never doing meditation. I went to a yoga studio, just found it, and I was like I'm going to go in here. They do real yoga, man. There's no like gimmicks with it, it's just like it's a. It's a pure practice.

Speaker 2: 46:10

And the first month I was like I'm going to keep going. I went twice a week, twice a day or twice a week every week for a month. And to start out, at the end of this class they would do Shavasana for 20 minutes. You go through a flow, hot yoga. You would do your practice, which felt like a movie of meditation. At the end they encouraged stillness. They did not rush you out, like in America. They rush you out the studio, they sat you down, silence with the whole group, and you just sit in that meditation.

Speaker 2: 46:36

In the beginning your thoughts are tangled, like if you've never done it. It's almost like Christmas lights, like out of a box. They're just like tangled all over right. So in the beginning it's confusing. It's too loud to make sense of what's going on. But you keep going back. I was like I'm just going to keep going back. Every time that I would sit in there it would get a little bit clearer to where eventually, over a month, it would just become a string, right, like everything was its own thing.

Speaker 2: 47:00

So then your thoughts get very silent and then they can isolate onto something that you're battling with. That's how you get answers for yourself, like things that you're like should I take this job? Do I want to move this city? Should I be in this relationship? All these questions that you battle with. You know the answer it's. Can you get through the muck to get the clarity of the answer? Cause I, I believe that your body has a feeling that it's giving you. It's just are you ignoring it and are you brave enough to answer to it and say this is how I feel, unapologetically, this is how I feel, and then you can understand why you feel that way. But that's how you move and make decisions, man. That's how you start to listen to yourself. So those are the practices that I've been doing for years.

Speaker 1: 47:52

That makes sense. So I've heard journaling quite a few times. So listeners that are out there, I mean, what do you have for setting that stage? Is it a certain time every day? Do you just grab a blank notebook? Do you find prompts? How do you kind of go about journaling?

Speaker 2: 48:05

I kept it more artistic than a set time. I don't like rigidness with this stuff. I never follow things well, where it was like, hey, every Monday at 5pm I'm going to write this stuff down, I kept it more like especially when I was living alone right In my 20s and early 30s, I would spend maybe a Friday night and like I'm home by myself, you know, I grab like a glass of whiskey, whatever to like, sit down and relax and just kind of like reflect. I love doing that. I would sit and reflect. That's when I would like write and I would just write down like how I'm feeling about things. How do I feel about my life? How do I feel about the career? Does it align with me? Is there something more exciting than I want to get into? How can I make adjustments to like get towards the life that I want? I would just like game plan with myself. I would just be very honest with myself and treat it as just like that. I would treat it more like how can I cultivate just the life that I want? And you would just I would converse with myself in that way and you start to get in touch with, like what you really want. I would also do video journals. I would actually like pull up my laptop and I would just speak to myself, as if my future self in 10 years was going to listen to this. So I was almost saying like, hey man, this is where I'm at right now in my life. I'm living here. This is what's going on. I feel like I'm going to be here in five years, or this is what I'm working towards.

Speaker 2: 49:21

And I've you don't have. You can delete them, like the journal entries. You can get rid of them. You can delete them. I've you don't have. You can delete them, like the journal entries. You can get rid of them. You can delete them. I've kept them. You don't have to watch them. I just think it's therapeutic to do that, and then you don't have to share that with anybody. This is for you and you alone, and it's just something where you get to be very raw, I think, with yourself.

Speaker 1: 49:44

That's awesome. Yeah, I completely agree. I think with yourself. That's awesome. Yeah, I completely agree. I think there's a lot of.

Speaker 1: 49:49

I know I found in my life I consider myself not an artistic person and so not writing and doing different things like that. But now that I've started podcasting, writing up the questions and researching the person and using that other side of my brain, I think even though I believe that I didn't need it or didn't want it it's been really refreshing and really fun to use that other, more creative, making the videos and putting stuff together. And so it's kind of funny. My wife, I usually say, is the cricket, you know, making crafts for the teachers and doing all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 50:19

I'm like I'll let her do it, but I think that you need to exercise like the other part, and I found like during the week when I'm being more analytical and running spreadsheets and doing, you know, medical admin stuff, like doing the other part is like refreshing. It feels like, oh, give that part a rest and let me work on some more creative stuff. So it feels like I mean, I don't know enough about the hemispheres of the brain and all that, but it definitely feels nice Like use the other other part. So I did want to ask you another question, like I love the idea of you know, finding your passion and kind of taking that leap of faith from the corporate world over there, how, how would you or what advice would you have to someone you know that would be interested in doing that, but making sure they're finding the balance between like their heart and then also practical needs. You don't want to just leap out and you, you know, fall on your face.

Speaker 2: 51:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean there is a balance between it, dude, and like everybody's situation is different, right? So maybe you're in a spot like you're by yourself You're not married, you don't have kids, you don't have a house that you've bought, you're just like just graduated college, so you have all this freedom and autonomy. You like just graduated college, so you have all this freedom and autonomy. Maybe then you do decide just to be like I'm dropping everything and I'm going to go travel and figure out what I want to do. There is that route. I think it's very romantic. People talk about that all the time.

Speaker 2: 51:36

Before you have responsibilities, why don't you just go get lost and see the world and let it come to you? That's what I did in South Africa. Honestly, that was a spiritual journey. If you can do that, I think it's one of the biggest gifts that you can give yourself is allowing yourself a space to get lost and not have a plan and not know what you want to do, but just follow things that you're curious about. Just follow natural curiosity. Now, the other side of that is like now I'm 38, about to get married, we have a house, we got two dogs, there's responsibilities, and it's a very different game plan, like if I were to do what I did back in Cape town now, like it's not, it's not working, but let's. So you have to have a balance between the two, and that's where it's situational for you.

Speaker 2: 52:22

That said, I absolutely believe that every single one of us have something in us that is just a natural pull that you're curious about. This, to me, is the art that every individual needs to find. So when we talk about art, you can think about painting, music, musician, actor. That's art. But art to me is self-expression. Fitness is my art. It's always been my art. So I would do this. I would lift the way that I'm lifting. If there was nobody else on the planet and I wasn't getting paid for it, I would still do this every day. This is how I express myself, man. So what is that for you? And then can you tap into that? And if you have responsibilities and there's a practical nature of me I need to earn a living to meet my responsibilities you do that.

Speaker 2: 53:13

And you do small things to introduce your hobbies, like why can't you like, if you love cars? Like why can't you go to your work and then, at like 6pm, you come home and you work on a car like why not have it in your garage? And just like yo like, tell your wife like, hey, this is like my time for a couple hours to just let my brain turn off and do something that I just love to do, where there's no outcome intended, there's no end result, there's no time pressures, it's just something that you just enjoy doing. I think sometimes we think following your passion has to be this I quit my job and so I need to make money in my passion, so I need to make money in my passion. I say sometimes but maybe you need to do something else to support what your hobbies and interests are.

Speaker 2: 54:00

It doesn't always have to be this I quit my job and I'm doing this full time and taking these massive risks. Why can't it be a slow burn? Why can't you follow some kind of curiosity? You love to cook? Why not cook at home, create some dope recipes and why not keep what you're doing to fulfill your responsibilities and let it evolve what it's going to evolve into and go back to Kaizen small improvements? Why can't I just do small things and let it turn into maybe a business, maybe it turns into something, but why not let it just be something small in the beginning, where it's like let me just keep the fun in this, why can't it be more therapeutic? You know you let it evolve.

Speaker 1: 54:38

Absolutely, and I love that. You said you know what you would do if you you know, no one else on the planet didn't make any money. That's probably a good lesson for a lot of people. Like you said, quiet the mind and, you know, find that thing. Maybe those are the questions that are running through your mind, like what would you do if it didn't matter? You just get up, you're going to do something. What is that? One thing no matter what's going on, you're going to do that. And then, um, I thought it was also cool that you had talked about, um, oh crap, I just lost my train of thought. What was it? But yeah, definitely try to follow those passions and things, for, you know, getting after that.

Speaker 2: 55:17

But the last question, oh, well, I was gonna, I was gonna, I was gonna elaborate a little bit man Like don't. Like when it hits you Accept it. And what I mean by that is like I struggled with that. So, like I told you earlier, I was like I have this interest in fitness. I had this, I had this interest. This was earlier. Let's just say I'm like 20.

Speaker 2: 55:37

Even before that I was in, I was in sports. There was always like little hints of the stuff that I'm interested in, but I wasn't listening. So, like I love comedy, I love a little bit of like performance type things, I love coaching, I love educating, I like to storytell. That stuff brings me to life. I get really brought to life when I'm having a chance to educate somebody, like where I feel like I'm helping someone. That's really where I turn on. I become my best, it's meaningful to me. And then fitness was like my outlet.

Speaker 2: 56:11

So, like all these things that meant something to me, you just start to pay attention and they didn't make sense early on. I was like I don't know how this stuff connects. It makes sense now, like I'm doing all the things that I love now, but it and they make sense, like on tonal, I'm able to educate you in real time. There's a little element of like, some performance and fun. I'm doing work that I love and believe in, it, all kind of lines up. But in the beginning I took improv comedy classes and I was like why am I doing this? But I was like I don't know, why am I taking acting classes? I don't know. Yeah, I'm not trying to be an actor per se, but why am I doing this? But it just felt right. I was curious man.

Speaker 1: 56:47

And that's probably one thing that people need to keep in mind is things take time. I think a lot of times back to like the instant gratification and things like that we're used to quick, quick. But I think over time you do start to okay, that fits and that fits and then it all comes together. The one thing I was going to mention and it finally came back was Atomic Habits by James Clear. He talks about those small, incremental. You're either going to get a little bit better every day or you're going to get a little bit worse. So really he's found in most cases there's not really a way to stay the same. You go one direction or another. So choose your direction, because it's going to happen every day and it's going to get either better or worse. So make those small incremental changes. But the last question I had for you what are some key lessons you learned from your personal journey and pursuing a life you love? Dude?

Speaker 2: 57:32

that's a big one, huh the big takeaway.

Speaker 2: 57:37

That's a big one. I think it's going to tie to what we were just talking about. I think that the biggest thing that I think anybody can do in their life is just find their art or find their sport. Talking about this with my fiance, actually, she calls it, refers to it as a third space and so you have, like, your job, you have your family, your home life and you can have those two things. But usually individuals crave that third space where it could be a sense of community, a form of self expression, and this is like a very unique to the individual.

Speaker 2: 58:08

But if you don't have that third space, we tend to feel, I think, think empty or feeling like we need to reach for something, and so you feel maybe complacent, and I hate that feeling of complacency. I need to feel like I'm growing into something, but taper it. It doesn't have to mean me. Growing into something means that I need to be a CEO. It doesn't mean I have to be an entrepreneur. This is where societal standards like we're battling what I want as an individual, with no apology, versus what I am being told I should want, and I think there's a lot of pressure of what you see like on social media and what other people are doing and keeping up with the Joneses, that type of stuff, where that infiltrates sometimes and you go, yeah, I want to learn this, but I probably should learn this because this is going to get me in a better position for business, and I'm like, yes, maybe you should, but is that really what you want to do? Yeah, and sometimes you just got to be unapologetic about that, but I think that once you find it got to be unapologetic about that, but I think that once you find it, it's the best thing that you can give to yourself. So for me it's fitness man, and so I talk about that. Find your art and in terms of fitness and training, I operate at a very high level in that space. So I coach people to operate at that level and achieving a balance. But I honestly come from this perspective as a coach too, that not everybody's going to view it the same way that I do and you're not going to do it as frequently as someone like myself trains. That's okay.

Speaker 2: 59:44

This is a huge message for people that I think are trying to get in shape is that when you start getting out in there, people think that we should be training at five days a week, six days a week. This is what people do, so this is what I should be doing, but I'm like that's not necessarily the case. What's non-negotiable is that strength training, some form of human movement, consistently needs to be on our routine. We're talking about health, but I'm passionate about training, just like someone has been, like I was born and I know I want to be an actor. Or I'm born and I know that I want to be a chef.

Speaker 2: 1:00:14

These are your callings. Fitness is my calling. Might not be your calling, so maybe you're following your calling. That's something entirely different, but absolutely training needs to be in your routine in some way, shape or form. But this is where I think it needs to be up to you to figure out how do you want to move your body. It can be a form of self-expression where it doesn't have to be lifting weights, it doesn't have to be CrossFit, it doesn't have to be football style training, it doesn't have to be cycling, it could be hiking, it could be whatever the hell it is. But you just have to find what works for you and then you can get better at that thing over time. But allow it to be personal.

Speaker 1: 1:00:51

Yeah, that makes sense. Two things I want to touch on in there is it's so interesting, like I feel like we're mandated almost to go to college. It seems like everyone you got to get the business degree and things like that, and it's just so unfortunate. There's welding and hospitality and you know a long list of different jobs that are. You know we're going to need for one and two that fill people with these passion, but for some reason we've kind of pushed. I mean dirty jobs. Mike Rowe, I mean he does a great job but hopefully we can, you know, solicit and advertise that better, where people can find the things that they want they're not, you know, look down upon, and things like that.

Speaker 2: 1:01:28

I think it's a huge point. I heard Mike Rowe talk about that and I couldn't agree with him more. That was like we look down on trade schools compared to college and like these other professions like lawyer and doctor. I think it's the biggest mistake that we do. I'm like my dad was a contractor worth with his hands. He was brilliant at it. Like I saw him work. I mean he was meticulous, like that's what that man was supposed to do. He was just damn good at it. And I'm like we do need those skills. So if that brings you joy like why can't you be a mechanic? Why can't you just do it at the highest level possible?

Speaker 1: 1:01:58

Yeah, and I think the other part is kind of you touched on is having those hobbies or setting aside those time for different things. If you, you know, have to do a certain job, you know, for the necessity of it, still try to find and keep that third space to be able to have that time. It's definitely and I think that goes back to earlier. We were talking about purpose. I think purpose we want it to be this grand, giant thing, but maybe it's just something you need to do and need to work on and have that space to to feel better and decompress. Maybe it's not like you're calling live or something you know that's probably there as well, but maybe you just need that thing to decompress and and be able to move on to another thing. Cause I think, like we had talked about the different timelines, like things take a while, and that's another thing.

Speaker 1: 1:02:40

I think that's really interesting with social media, we highlight all the wins. All the wins are there. We highlight the family trip, we highlight anything that's positive. Those highlights are there Like no one ever shows along the way. I always love, love that that picture or meme of like the iceberg or however it's referenced, where you just see the, the tiny tip of that thing, and that's the success. That's where it all worked out, but it's like person was grained in for 10 years before that. You know, I like the reference of wd-40, like they call it wd-40, because there was 39 other recipes that sucked, but then they got to the 40th, and it was perfect.

Speaker 1: 1:03:18

And now, everybody yeah, absolutely yeah. So now you go out to your cabinet. I'm sure every person listening or ever has a thing of wd-40 in their thing, but they had to get to wd or recipe 40. I don't know what the wd stands for but 40 different iterations until it finally came together. It doesn't come together on the first shot.

Speaker 2: 1:03:38

No man. I mean also like success, like going back to your point it was uh, we see success. It's like sometimes it's monumental thing. I think you look at people that are either elite athletes making millions, hundreds of millions of dollars, or I need to open a business that goes like just expands, it goes crazy. But it's like why can't your purpose be more simple than that? I'm like that stuff is great. Don't get me wrong. If that's like your path, like you, obviously you do that and that's a very high level of success within that realm. But if you do that with out of alignment with yourself, then I don't view that as success and for me I'm a pretty simple guy. I view a lot of my purpose now, especially in my life, and these things can change and evolve with your life as you enter different phases. I just want to be great for my family man.

Speaker 2: 1:04:24

I want to spend as much time as I can with my fiance and my soon-to-be wife and our dogs and get quality time at home. And I want to enjoy a great career that makes me feel good, where I can help people. And the scale of that I let go of. Why do I have to? It doesn't have to be some grandiose like I talked to millions and millions of people Cool, if that happens, it's a blessing, that's amazing. But can it be more simple than that? Like can't you have? Why can't your purpose be like I want to be a really damn good father. I want to be really there for my kids, or I want to be there. I want to be a better son, a better daughter. Like that stuff is just as important and just as impactful. So it's like whatever it is for you, just don't apologize for it and put your all into that and that's it.

Speaker 1: 1:05:08

Yeah, I feel the same way about the show. I've had people you know, naysayers and whatnot, that always be the negative thing. Like oh, do you think you're going to fix mental health? Like no, but what if? What if? What if I save some person? One person that makes you know a different choice from making a permanent decision to end their life or something. One, one person. All the time, all the editing, all the conversations that are out here, all the time we spent one person. That's it, all that's worth it.

Speaker 1: 1:05:34

So, it's funny Like, oh you're going to overhaul it Like no, but I'm going to keep trying. I'm going to keep having conversations.

Speaker 2: 1:05:41

That's what you do, and if this brings you joy, going back to the thing man, this may be your art Nate.

Speaker 1: 1:05:47

So it's like that's great man and this can can be a form of self-expression, and you're helping people, so the scale of that. Who gives it? Like that's not the point, right like, I'm about to do my podcast from scratch too. Man, no, absolutely yeah, don't get a check on the numbers or anything like that. Like, oh, you only have you know 10 or 20 like okay, that's cool. Hopefully those 20 liked it yeah so yeah, they're gonna love it.

Speaker 1: 1:06:12

Well, joe, thanks coming. It was an awesome time. I don't want to take too much from you. I encourage listeners to share their thoughts on social media. I've got the Facebook page. The Buzzsprout is for audio and YouTube for video, so check it out, let me know what you think, and I love you all. See you, so, thank you.