MindForce: Mental Fitness & Life Stories!
Welcome to the show! We're on a mission to explore diverse perspectives and topics through podcasts and social media accounts. Tune in to 'MindForce' for insightful discussions on mental fitness and self-care strategies. Join us on 'Carer Stories' as we delve into the fascinating world of the Air Force, learning from professionals across various career fields and various other career stories. Follow us for engaging content and stay connected to broaden your horizons!
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MindForce: Mental Fitness & Life Stories!
The Power of Vulnerability: Jason Lookabaugh’s Insights on Leading with Heart
What if you could transform from a rebellious young adult to a respected leader in the Air Force? Meet Jason Lookabaugh, the Enlisted Optimist, who shares his transformative journey and the lessons he's learned along the way. From his early struggles with authority in Dayton, Ohio, to finding a mentor who shifted his perspective on leadership, Jason's story is a testament to the power of resilience and empathy. Christopher Yannion, the mentor who taught him the importance of being good with people, played a pivotal role in shaping Jason’s leadership style and personal growth.
We also explore the emotional and psychological toll of leadership in the military, particularly when dealing with setbacks and disciplinary actions. Jason brings to light the concept of the "success tax," where struggles and failures are necessary steps toward success. He emphasizes the importance of understanding individual motivations and how legacy shapes actions and reputation. Inspired by Simon Sinek’s philosophy, Jason underscores the value of asking "why" to truly comprehend people's goals and motivations, making mentorship a more effective and empathetic process.
Lastly, we uncover the profound impact of vulnerability in leadership. Jason discusses the balance between maintaining structure and fostering meaningful relationships through raw honesty and self-reflection. His personal experiences of trauma and hardship underline the importance of sharing vulnerabilities to build deeper connections and support others. We also delve into methods of self-care and the benefits of slowing down in a fast-paced world, providing practical tips for self-reflection and mental well-being. Join us for a heartfelt conversation that aims to inspire optimism and positive change within the Air Force community and beyond.
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Thank you, welcome to the show. This is Mindforce, the podcast for love, life and learning, where the progression and development of your mind is key. Today we have Jason Lookabaugh, or better known as the Enlisted Optimist. Hey, jason.
Speaker 2:Hey Nate, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. I'd like to give you the full and give us a little bit about yourself. One of the best parts about podcasting is getting to meet all these people I would never have the chance to talk to, and really allowing people to know you more. You do short format videos, which are amazing, but now people will get to know you a little bit more, so tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:So a little bit about me. Like you said, I do the short videos. Once upon a time they were a little bit longer, and then I had a couple of people that was like, hey, so average attention spans like 10 seconds, maybe we cut them down from 10 minutes to three minutes, and I was like I'm sure I could do that. But yeah. So for those of you that don't know me, jason Lickleball, I go by the handle the Enlisted Optimist when I do speaking events videos, things like that.
Speaker 2:I've been in the military for about just shy of 15 years now. Prior to that, I grew up in Dayton, ohio. I graduated high school at 16 and just hit the ground running, went to college for culinary arts right out of high school. So I was like the youngest person on campus. And then I went on to do that for about a year, ran out of money for that, Uh, cause I was working a job full time, going to school full time.
Speaker 2:Sister Amy, who is six years older than me, was in the Air Force at the time, and so I went to her. I said, hey, amy, this Air Force thing seems like it might be the best fit for me. What do you think? And she goes well, yeah, it'll definitely give you money for, for college and all that stuff. She's like Joey, I don't think you're a good fit. Um, my biological name is Joseph Wesley Perkins, so that's what most of my family will call me. So, uh, she goes all right, cool. So why do you, why do you think this would be a good fit? And I'm like I don't know, I just it can't be that hard it. She's like yeah, joey, I don't think it's going to be a good fit for you. You kind of have a problem with authority. And I was like I don't feel like I have a problem with authority. I feel like I have a problem with people who don't know how to utilize their authority. And so, while that sounds super insightful at 18, that guy was not this guy. So that guy was an anarchist, I'm 100% convinced. Like I don't know how I went from like the brink of insanity to like slightly put together. Um, but if that guy was doing videos y'all, they would be all over the place.
Speaker 2:Um, because so when I was younger in my career, it was definitely one of those things where you couldn't tell me anything. I felt like as the brand new guy. There was just something about me, to where my work ethic alone was going to solve all of the world's problems, all of the military's problems, world's problems, all of the military's problems. And because people were willing to follow my craziness and just like drive right into the abyss with me, I thought that made me a fantastic leader. And it definitely it didn't help, because lots of things continue to like flood that persona of me of like I must be doing everything right.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't until, like, I got to my second base and I ran into somebody very, very big impact on my life and my career Christopher Yannion Still friends with him to this day, absolutely phenomenal human being and phenomenal leader. And he kind of sat down with me and he goes hey, so, jason, you're really good at your job, but you're really awful with people. And I was like, how dare you? I'm great with people. He's like, no, no, you're, you're good, you're a people person, you're not good with people.
Speaker 2:And it was one of those things where, like, I just kind of started to mold this over. I'm like, who does this guy think he is? Does he just not know me? And I was just so full of myself I felt like I had all of the answers. I felt like I had to be the guy that had all the answers. I felt like I had to be the smartest person in the room and you really could not tell me anything. It was such this toxic behavior that honestly, I'm not really sure how I even became an NCO, with that being the forefront of my mindset.
Speaker 2:But after meeting him and really kind of getting knocked down a few pegs and he didn't just it wasn't just a one and done conversation, he really continued to be alongside me and mentor me and just he was just a really close like. He was a higher ranking individual but he's very, very close, somebody that I could confide in as I was going through a tougher time in my life, and really took the time to mentor me, talk with me. He's also from Ohio, so we had a really easy connection and for a year of my career I just continued to learn from this man. Small little things here and there and like a lot of like the weird one-off leadership expressions that I'll have.
Speaker 2:I wish I could claim full credit. I'm sure I've changed them a little bit, but I would definitely give him a lot of credit for some of the more unique quotes that I do have when I do videos and talk with folks and things like that, and really I took a lot that I learned from him and just realized it's okay to be a completely unique human being and to have all these different things and to look at folks and go you know what, if they can do it, I can do it, not because I'm better than them, but because they're facing some of the same challenges. So if I face those same challenges, it must be possible. And so with talking with him, that's kind of where I developed that, the basic of this. I'm just kind of like changing people and that's why I'm just hearing the.
Speaker 2:The whole vibe of your podcast of like mindset and things like that. That's really the goal of the enlisted optimist is, even if it's just one person, is to change the mindset of one person, generation after generation, as they move forward, and really kind of hinging that on. The human in me sees the human in you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That's some good stuff. So I'm kind of curious, I think a lot of times in the military, sometimes we're hesitant and we don't want to have that difficult conversation with someone. So in that particular case you're going on this trajectory If that person doesn't sit with you. I mean, where do you end up? I mean I guess we'd have to, you know, try to predict. But I think that's a good point to make. Right, like we're, like, oh, we're not going to talk to them, we're not going to tell them, but if you allow that person, you know, to keep going, they're going to go down the right path. So, even though that conversation might be difficult, so could you touch on, you know, maybe, how you think you would have gone? You know, having difficult conversations Dealing with that.
Speaker 2:Right now we have a younger airman so full of potential, so much of like I see all of the essence of really where I was at and I'm kind of like looking back and going all right, so what would he have said to me in this moment to do that? And I had had a conversation with that person and kind of talking with them of like, hey, kind of the direction that you're going, I get it, I know where you're coming from. Of like, hey, kind of the direction that you're going, I get it, I know where you're coming from. I recognize the emotions and the things like that that are driving you to feel like this is the best possible action to take. The individual got paperwork, which I am no stranger to paperwork, I've gotten it. At all different types of levels, we make mistakes. It is what it is. It's what you do when you meet those barriers. And I was talking with this individual and it was well, I don't really feel like I need to do a response or anything like that. And it's well, you've got to be able to tell your side of the story. You've got to be able to show people that you care. Well, you can tell that I'm upset. You can tell that I care, no that's. I can tell that you're upset by this, that you're going to make a change or anything like that. And so, as I talked with the individual, like it was just kind of like a an ebb and flow and I didn't really know really where the conversation laid at the end of it. But I was kind of like hey, like, as you move through this, if you need to continue to talk, just let me know. Well, when I was talking with their leadership, they were like I don't know what to do with this person. They have so much potential and it just seems like they're wasting it. And I was like well, once upon a time I had a whole lot of potential and somebody thought I was wasting it. I was like now there's two different paths here. It's like the individual has to be able to see that there is another choice to take. I was like but on the other hand, that person is the one that chooses. I had to choose and, like you said, I don't know where I would be if I didn't make the choice. To put my pride aside, maybe it was just the right person at the right time.
Speaker 2:When the student is ready, the master appears and so it's the timing. I believe timing and proximity is one of the biggest things that I tell folks. I'm like it's everything when you're going for awards, when you're going for rank, when you're trying to accomplish a goal, when there's a certain thing in your life that you're trying to get to. Something as simple as buying a house, timing and proximity it just plays into so many different things and as I was sitting there talking with the two of them, I was like she's got to want it. The individual has to want it and want this change and see the need for it. There has to be a felt need for it, otherwise it is what it is Now.
Speaker 2:The person does have a lot of indicators of like they do want to improve, they want to progress in their career, said that they want to do this as a career and have a lot of personal goals. They want to make E9. Like. It's a huge deal for them and I'm like, ok, let's do that, but this has got to be tempered. It's an admin career field, so there's a lot of professionalism, which obviously means different things to different people, but there's a lot of things that have to be kind of tempered down so that you can do this.
Speaker 2:And it's just something I was talking to my daughter about earlier. Like we all get upset about things all the time, like life's not fair, careers aren't fair, like things just aren't going to go the way that we want. But this is the only life that we have. We can either sit here and be upset about it or we can go. How do I make the best of what I've got going on? And that's kind of what the advice I gave her.
Speaker 2:I was like you can't give up, but she can. She can literally say that's cool, I'm done with this, I'm not going to reenlist, I'm not going to do this anymore, I don't care, and she can begin the spiral. I was like but all we can do is be there for this member, make sure there's no deeper thing going on and make sure that we're there for them in every way that we can without enabling negative behavior. And seeing us be there for her could be the thing that helps change her trajectory and really sets that example for her of yeah, this stuff sucks from time to time, but here's how you handle it instead of that. It's a hard lesson for some people to learn sometimes and I'm trying not to get into specifics, obviously to protect the member themselves. But yeah, it can get really really tough when you have those potentially difficult people that have so much potential because obviously you have so many different emotions of yourself that you're, you're mixing into this because you're conflicted, and so I yeah, we've navigated that, even recently.
Speaker 1:So to follow up on that, I mean as leaders, ncos, senior NCOs, you know CGOs across the board. Have you seen any? You know specific tips or tricks to set the room, or how do you go through those difficult conversations with the paperwork and things like that? Because it feels like in a lot of situations you have, you know, kind of over simple family guests, but two brand categories a person that receives it and moves on, it's awesome or it feels like, more often than not, the person shuts down. So how do you kind of avoid that shutting down and working through that?
Speaker 2:Well, first, I like how you said that there's two broad categories because, that being said, we also know that there's a lot of different gray areas in between. So we'll focus on the two broad categories for advice that I would give folks. For those folks that take Well, I'll just put it out there the individual that's going to get that paperwork and that you have destroyed their entire world because they can't recognize that this is a turning point. With those people you've really got to do that additional legwork. And some folks may say, oh, I don't want to do that, I don't think it's worth it, or something to that effect. It's worth it. You have to have that chance to talk with them, because they're not going to see one month from now, three months from now, six months, a year from now, they're not. They're not going to look at that paperwork and go thank you so much for giving this to me. They're going to go. Well, this really sucks. I can't get this now. I can't get that.
Speaker 2:None of that stuff really matters. I tell people every day. I feel like when we come into work for the military, we just re-enter the matrix. None of this is real, it's all a figment of our imagination. We go home and we're like what was that thing that I was so stressed out about at three o'clock? I don't even remember now because it doesn't matter anymore, and by no means am I dismissing what anybody does in the military. It's just that reality sometimes that we get so spun up in things that we make something that really is only consequential to this moment or this situation and we stretch it out to be like the end, all be all. So with those folks. You really have to remind them like I get it. This sucks.
Speaker 2:You may lose this opportunity. You may not be able to apply for OTS now. You may not be able to apply to be a first sergeant. I'm actually speaking about my own personal experiences here. You may not be able to put on that rank as early as you thought you would. You may not be eligible for BTZ. You may not be able to get that promotion at work. You may not be able to go on that trip. You may not be able to do that thing, but maybe there's a reason for it. Maybe you're not ready, maybe you thought you were ready but you're not, and this is an indication of that.
Speaker 2:Now the thing is, is nobody has to accept that and go. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for doing this negative thing that I know a year from now is going to have such great results for me. We've got to learn lessons and, honestly, at the end of the day, you've got to pay that tax. The success tax is in those moments too. If you want to be at the tip top of it and you don't fall on your face, then that's when you're going to fall. You're going to fall when you're at the top instead of along the way.
Speaker 2:And if you don't pay that tax along the way and get those stern talking to's and have your moments where you bump into those guardrails and you have to be remit, then what's it all for? You're going to be that person that thinks they can do nothing wrong, that doesn't make mistakes, and then, when it finally happens, you're just gaslighting everybody else and pushing the blame on everyone else and going I didn't do anything wrong. Years to prove that I've never done anything wrong. It's like no, you've got years to prove that someone that should have stepped in and stopped this from happening didn't do it, and so that's what you've got years of. And it's the other side of that coin, the people that are just like I don't care about paperwork, whatever, okay, well then, what is it that you do care about, like, how can I give you this feedback in a way that you will accept it? And that's a hard question to have, especially when you're trying to be so stern and just be like this is what you did wrong, this is the standard, and if you do it again more like terrible things will happen. How do you have that conversation on the other side of the coin? Go Now, why isn't this making sense to you? Because you can tell, like, when you slide a piece of paperwork across the desk for somebody to sign and they kind of give you that look of like it's something here, you go Like whatever, cool, thanks, but it's like. But do you understand the ramifications of this? Do you understand why this action is not okay? And maybe it's not a paperwork thing? Truly, I am a big proponent of I call them unique consequences because they are driven in those moments of because, yes, there's two broad categories, but I would say, in the category of people that aren't driven by like paperwork and things like that, that category is exceptionally gray, more so than the other one.
Speaker 2:This one's pretty easy when you get this character. You're kind of like all right, I gotta go into the playbook here. I gotta figure out how we going to get this one across the finish line, because you've got to figure out what drives that specific person in that specific situation and what's going to make them successful. What do they even care about? Because I've got some people right now that work for me that I know for a fact. 20 years is not their goal. Two years is Two years left and it's like cool. So what do you want to do with those two years? Two years is two years left and it's like cool. So what do you want to do with those two years? You just want to. This is how you want to leave. You want to be that guy or that gal. You want to be that person that this is what people think of.
Speaker 2:I'm huge on legacy. I think even my recent video that I did talks about that. Like I am so big on. What does your name mean to you? Um, it's only fitting that I've got like 12 different names but going through foster care, being adopted, like I got so many different names. But my thing is, I have so much pride and when I put my name on something, it must mean something. It has to be. When people go, you know what Jason must've done that, or Sergeant Lookaball must've done that, or this must be from this particular person. I have so much pride and ownership of that that I talk to people about that. I'm like what do you want people to look? And some of them literally have told me I really don't care, and in those moments I go cool.
Speaker 2:So when you transition out, what's our plan? How can I at least give you something now to where, when you do that on the other side of it, you can feel better prepared? When you do that on the other side of it, you can feel better prepared. And then that becomes the carrot. And I'm not like bargaining with people for good behavior, but realistically that's what we got to do. Sometimes that sucks, but I can sit here and be upset about the fact that I've got to bargain with people for good behavior. I can accept the fact that that's the reality. You just can't do that with everybody because then you're just that person that's people pleasing. But yeah, every once in a while they'll be like well, when I get out, I want to go start a business I want to do this, I want to do that Cool Then one of the most important things to that person is their time.
Speaker 2:Your behavior improves. How do I give you more of your time back? And so it really is. And sure, it's conditioning to an extent, but that's what paperwork is. I'm conditioning you to not do the bad behavior anymore. It's like when we put our kids in timeout or whatever the case may be. They get grounded. What we're hoping is for them to stop doing the bad thing. It's no different with people.
Speaker 2:One of the things that I talk about and you've got to be really careful with this, because it can come across as manipulative depending on how you do it it's a pressure point. People don't move unless there is a pressure point being applied to them to make them move one way or the other. You're walking down the road. One of the pressure points that's going to be applied to you is if there's a car coming directly at you. You're going to move because the pressure tells you I don't want to get hit by this car.
Speaker 2:You're $30,000 in debt and you realize that you're about to lose the house. That pressure point being applied to you is I could come home tomorrow and I will not be able to get into this home. What can I do right now? And so things like that there has to be a pressure point to get people to do what they're supposed to do, and you can do that in leadership as well. It's like I'm giving you the stern guiding hand because you're going this way and you need to go this way. That's why we do deadlines, that's why we do the awards programs, all that stuff. There's incentive, and then there's the other side of it, where this is the stern guidance that's interesting.
Speaker 1:I like how you mentioned the kids, because I was thinking of my son. He's six and it's funny because he'll do something wrong and we, you know, try to threaten like spankings or whatnot, and he is so ready so he'll just like give you his butt and he's like I'll do that and then I'll go back to the thing I was doing that he doesn't care, he'll just take it. He took the last year and then he'll press on like that's not, this isn't what this is for. It's my own sister. Don't just take it like it's so funny, it's different than the other two, I guess girls versus boys or something, but it's like that's not the point. So the creative solutions I guess I get them. This isn't supposed to take it and move on.
Speaker 1:But I had a question for you for goals, because I've experienced in my personal life, when I switched from E to O, my first commander. His goal was to be a commander and it's just something that's always resonated with me because I would love to be a commander and I would love to do it for you know the right reason to take care of the people and be there. Because my first experience, you know I had some negative things that happened inappropriate behavior and some other things. But it just made me kind of think about it because you said you had a young troop that is shooting for E9, and so I'm curious what your thoughts are like. I like the idea of long-range goals, but then at the same time it makes me wonder like should that be your goal or should it be your goals already? And that gets you to the end result what are your thoughts on kind of those long term goals?
Speaker 2:I always ask people why. I guess that's the millennial in me why is my favorite question in the whole world? I feel like that was just kind of like pumped into all of us Like you were born like 1988 to 2000. It was kind of like you into all of us, like you were born, uh, like 1988 to 2000. It was just kind of like you're going to ask why a thousand times a day. And so I always do that Like cause.
Speaker 2:I one, I'm very curious about people's goals. Honestly, I've I've kind of made like a sort of kind of additional career on wanting to know what makes people tick, what your goals are, how, how, in any way, shape or form. I can either find something to help you accomplish it or not. And I recognize this from my very first troop. It was, I was a brand new staff, she was an A1C and it was cool what do you want to do? I had. And me, when I first came in, I was like I also want to be an E9. I want to be a chief. And along the way I was like love to be a senior NCO. That's just give me, just give me a roof and we're good. We'll see what happens after that. But I was talking with her and she was just like no, I just want to be a veterinarian. And I'm like what? And I have a maintenance trade in the Air Force. So I'm like you want to be a veterinarian? Like why? And she's like, well, I love animals. I did like a. I think she'd done like an internship or something when she was in high school 4-H stuff like that and I was like, okay, well, this is new for me. I'm not a veterinarian, I don't know any veterinarians, let me see what I can do. So I spent like the better half of a day like researching the best programs.
Speaker 2:We were in Alaska at the time so I was like what do we have nearby? I talked with a couple of my peers and a couple of my supervisors that I had and I was like anybody know anything about like veterinarians? And one of my supervisors goes well, my wife actually works at a vet clinic. And I'm like, oh, sick, Like can she go work there? And he goes, well, yeah, she's always looking for help. And so I went to my troop and I'm like, hey, I did all these things. Here's the place that I found that you could do this Again. Like just gave her a whole bunch of stuff that she did not ask for and I was just kind of like all right, cool, so we could do this this, this, this, this. And then she's like I'm not interested in the school stuff at all, but that opportunity, that sounds great. And I'm like all right, cool, whatever.
Speaker 2:And that was like one of my first lessons of like one, you don't need to overdo it. You probably need to ask more questions. And then two of like I don't have to be the guy that knows all the answers. I have to find the guy that knows all the answers. And that's one of the things Simon Sinek says is he's like I'm not really interested in being the smartest person in the room. He's like rarely am I the smartest person in the room. I find the person that knows the most about a subject and I have them explain it to me in the most basic way so that even I can understand it. He's like cause, then I can go and explain it to other people and they think that I know what I'm talking about and that concept made so much sense to me. I'm like but it really you do have to be so humble and modest to take on that mindset of you're not the smartest person in the room. You should always be looking for rooms with smarter people than you, and if you are, you teach people and you leave and you find that room that I just referred to.
Speaker 2:But it was just this was her goal, and so I'm always asking why? And even with the airman I'm like, why do you want to be a chief? And she's like well, first off and this is kind of what let me know that this airman has so much potential. If we can just soften the edges and round things out and get her on the trajectory because she goes well, realistically, first I just want to be a senior airman Because her dad had been in the military but, honestly, had gotten out. Before he ever even put on senior airmen, things happen, what have you, whatever? But she's like first go with senior airman.
Speaker 2:When she made senior airman, we threw a huge like. I was like a little jealous and envious because I had never seen a senior airman get this kind of promotion party. Like it was like the same vibe as like when you have like all of the staff selects come out for their selection party and I was like what is this. But I was happy for her that people were giving her this much joy, cause I'm like this is what it looks like when people support someone's goal and they let them know. We knew you could do it. You did it. Let's celebrate it.
Speaker 2:And then what's the next goal? And that's what she said. I want to make staff the first time, and so we broke it down. But the whole time, the why has always been I just want to do something that actually means something, and so each step of the way, it's always been that reminder of yes, sure, when you get to cheat, that will mean something, you'll be able to do something. But you can always do something every step of the way. And I always tell her, and I always tell most people control what you can where you can, when you can, because at the end of the day, if you don't take advantage of that opportunity, you're always going to be frustrated that you didn't do enough, that you didn't take advantage of that opportunity and that you can't do anything to fix the current situation. That you can. You can always do something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Everyone can be a leader, no matter where they're at and what level they're in. I wanted to ask a question. You know you have the moniker enlisted, optimist, and so a lot of people might be listening or listen to yours and say, oh, it must be nice to always be optimistic, but you have to balance reality and the things that actually occur in your life. So what would you say are your ability to balance real world and optimism?
Speaker 2:I've always been a huge. This question comes up a lot, especially when people are like, why'd you pick that name? I'm like, well, because I'm enlisted and I'm a pretty optimistic guy. It was pretty straightforward. But, um, I think that the most optimistic people are probably the most realistic people. It's all about how you take that lens and look through it. Simon said it's one of my favorite people.
Speaker 2:That comes to so many different ways because he just has such a conventional and unconventional way of looking at leadership at the exact same time. It's so just everything's kind of rooted in, like this just makes sense, and so I've always appreciated that. And he has this kind of thing where he's talking about autism I'm paraphrasing harshly because I can't remember all of it, um, but he talks about walking through a tunnel and he's like autism is like walking through a dark tunnel and looking all the way down the tunnel and seeing the light and still recognizing that I'm walking in a dark tunnel, but knowing that that's what I'm walking towards and and sure life. We never seem to be able to do the things that we want to do when we want to do them where we want to do them, the goals that we're doing, for we're constantly running into challenges. We make plans, everything falls apart, like life is beautifully messy and at the end of the day I can sit. That's the other thing. It's like one of the quotes that I heard the other day was at the end of the day, I can sit. That's the other thing. Is like one of the quotes that I heard the other day was at the end of the day, it's the end of the day, and I was like there's just a very peaceful vibe about that.
Speaker 2:Saying is that at the end of the day, like that's wrong or I can go all right. Well, what did go good? One, it grounds me and lets me know like hey, man, not everything that happened today was awful. I cannot imagine the people that walk through life with that weight of everything is awful. My heart goes out to them and I just mentally cannot and maybe that is a weakness of mine, because I can't wrap my head around that. Um, cause I try and see things from so many different points of view. I can understand that. It's probably very easy to point out everything. I can look at the things in front of me and go that's not right, that's not right, that's crooked, that's this, but at the end of the day it's like but that's a beautiful picture, and if you can't take those moments to go cool, here's what's going right. I mean, I'm not a perfect person. None of us are perfect people.
Speaker 2:So somebody could do the same thing and look at you and go, this is wrong, this is wrong. This is wrong. You should weigh this much. You should have this kind of muscle tone. Your teeth shouldn't be crooked. Your haircut looks weird. You shouldn't have glasses. You should have contacts, like all of these different things. Oh, your hats crooked and it's like cool. But like what do you like? Oh, you have a really warm smile. When you laugh. It makes people laugh. You're very personable, all of these different things and it's like.
Speaker 2:But you could just focus on the positive things, not in a way that just completely dismisses the things that people need to work on. But yeah, I think through the process of really being all about self-awareness maybe that was when I was a PME instructor a lot of that kind of got instilled in me. But through the process of self-awareness I was able to kind of see that optimism is more than just blind positivity. It's really just a holistic consumption of all of it and just choosing to go sure, this exists, but this is better. Why wouldn't I stay focused on this?
Speaker 1:It's interesting that people believe optimism is rainbows and butterflies and pessimistic is like the world is ending, when we know everything in the world is about balance and spectrums. But I'd like to talk about rawness and vulnerability. Can you share a time or moment when being rough and vulnerable has led to a deeper connection?
Speaker 2:Absolutely Been through a lot of things in my life I've mentioned so far. I was in foster care. I was adopted, survivor of sexual assault Many different things I've been through. This is now my third marriage. I've got children, from 14 all the way down to getting ready to have my newest one here in about two weeks. I've been through emotional, psychological abuse. I've watched people go through suicidal ideations all of these different things.
Speaker 2:And all this stuff starts to stack up and you're kind of like, well, that's a lot of bad stuff and I've kind of like, not in like a martyrdom kind of sense, but I'm like, well, why did I go through all this stuff? You can't help but ask again my favorite question why? And as I went through life, really one of the biggest things that I noticed is it wasn't in that moment, but years down the road. It has allowed me to be a degree higher than most people when it comes to being empathetic with folks, when it comes to being able to truly relate to what people are going through everybody's different. So I can't go. I know exactly what you're going through. That would be me taking like 16 gigantic steps backwards by uttering those words. But I can go. You know I have been through something similar and I know that when I was going through it, these were some things that I was feeling and if you're feeling even remotely close to those things, there's things that worked for me that hopefully might help you. But if not, just know that I'm at least willing to hear what you've got going on and so that that rawness that I've been able to have with people because a lot of people like why do you share that with people? I'm like what's the point of keeping it to myself? It serves me in no way to keep this a huge secret and go. All of these awful things that happen to me are me like? No, these are things that happened to me. Are me Like? No, these are things that happened to me. I've got all of my scars. I can share them with you and go. You know what? We both got them. I made it through it.
Speaker 2:I've watched people that have went through the exact same traumas as me come out on the other side completely different, because they didn't get the help that they need. They weren't able to talk to people about these things. They just didn't process it correctly. They leaned on the wrong types of things to get through that situation and it just didn't work out for them. So being raw has always been something that allows me to be real with people, because I'm one of the more blunt people that people meet, regardless of like the very positive nature of my videos, I'm a very blunt and direct person. The other there's also another persona of me that will be this is your goal. These are the things that you said you want to do. You're not doing them.
Speaker 2:One of the things I'll say with my kids all the time and it's weird because you know like they're, on average, like 10, 11 years old it's like, all right, I'm just going to be real with you. I say that to my kids every single day Because I just feel like there's a level of honesty that has to exist. It's the human condition. We're all going through it, whether you're nine or 19 or 90. We're all going through the process of being human and if we can sit there and pretend and go, we're not all dealing with the same things and to some degree we are.
Speaker 2:I mean, we all sat there and stared at the sky with black glasses on the other day, like I guarantee you a great 60% upwards all stared at the sun, because there were about 600 meme videos afterwards of when you stared at the sun too long. So like there's something about the society that when we can not necessarily just share the things that make us laugh and the cute puppy videos and this hilarious comedian, but we also share the things of like pain and and the the moments of despair that we go through, like we love those transformation videos, those stories of I was here and now I'm here. We love to support those things because it reminds us of the fact that we're human.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's super important too and I love that you bring it up because I feel like in the military A-type personalities you're supposed to be strong, you're supposed to bear all the weight and things like that. So it is awesome that we're moving forward. I know I kind of do similar things and hopefully I'll continue to do that, but when I take on a flight I'll usually do. You know the leadership principles and the things. You know very. You know high-level stuff about me. When I first take over. I don't want to freak anybody out on like the first day or first week, but usually three to six months in, when you know the flight and I did a little bit more, that's when I go in.
Speaker 1:You know I've been through a divorce and I worked through. You know joint custody and co-parenting and you know that's my dad and had to do Red Cross notification from going and you know, move some of my grandparents at this point, and so I do the same thing where I'm like I bring this up not to be this weird negative Nancy and say like, oh my life, you know woe is me or anything like that. But I hope that hopes bridge the gap, you know, sometimes I think between the E and O and things like that, where the pedestal is maybe bigger than it needs to, there needs to be structure and respect and we can't drink and you know first names and do certain things. You know because there is that structure to a certain extent, but to your exact point, we are all human and so I would rather you be able to talk with me and move through some things, as I know, a lot of times we have the open door policy but if there's no connection, the door doesn't matter if it's open or closed. Like I'm going to come and talk to you.
Speaker 1:I know I've had quite a few face shirts and things like that and we'll say, oh, swing by and see me at the commander's call. You know there's certain things about them. They don't really want the walk or whatever, not to wear any shirts. But there would be no connection. I wouldn't walk in there and be able to have a conversation in that way. So but I totally agree. Like if I go through something, I don't want it to suck, to just suck, like what's the point of that? I want it to suck so that I could potentially help someone else. Like it wasn't fun for me, that was terrible. No, and another point that I think is great that you pointed out I will never and hopefully I never if someone catches, catches me, let me know. I'll never say I know exactly like I'm for sale. I did that. No, that's never the intent.
Speaker 1:We have been through negative things and so if you need to open up, you need to, you know, cry, you need to, whatever, like reach out, yeah, that's there, we can sit down. I think the biggest thing is trying to figure out what the person needs to. I think that that happens a lot. Like do you want me to fix it or do you want to vent? Because I feel like those are two completely different categories. Like I will start calling everybody I know, like you had said, the veterinarian, I will make some phone calls and we will fix it. Or do you need to downpour, you know, and then we'll come and be fine. Like just let me know. In those two completely different categories, because I think we all need different things Because people are so complex.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. We want cookie cutter things, we want leadership books that tell us step one, step two, but geez, people are completely, completely different. But I wanted to move on to another thing and ask you about self-reflection and growth, and so one thing I'd love to hear your thoughts on are slowing down. We're in a world where you can Google any answer in seconds. You can drive through and get freed in a matter of minutes. Everything is faster and faster right now, but do you have anything that you do or tips for listeners to slow down and self-reflect?
Speaker 2:It's the guy who talks a mile a minute. This is one of my greatest challenges. You definitely definitely found it Things that I try Things that I try.
Speaker 2:I'm huge when it comes to music. I'm that guy that after a long day I will literally just put on. I love this new DJ feature that Spotify has. I promise Spotify does not pay me to bring that up, but it's awesome because it really, just like the DJ just obviously is using AI and all these different algorithms but it brings up songs that sometimes, like I haven't heard and it puts me in very nostalgic kind of moods.
Speaker 2:But music's a big one for me for kind of calming down, because without calming down and it's not because I get like super irate or super frustrated, but honestly like keeping myself at high energy a lot of times, being an extroverted person, it's, it can be draining and I feel like that's the thing that, like not a lot of extroverted people talk about, they just call themselves introverted extroverts. Like no, realistically, it's just recognizing like, even as an extrovert, like eventually the tank runs out, we're not endless wells. I will get to a point where if you put me in a crowd of people at the beginning of the day, I'm ready. I'm like I'm moving around, I'm talking with people, really excited to meet folks. All that good stuff Going around, talking about by the end of the day. I'm like, all right, so we've got about 10 more minutes and it's inevitable that someone will come in and go. Hey, I just need to talk to you about this real quick and I'm like, all right, cool, Jason's still gotta be at full energy, full awareness. I gotta be a hundred percent me for this person right now, because that's what they need. That's why they chose to come to me, because they need the version of me that they're used to. It's the same thing.
Speaker 2:When I was a PME instructor, I had to be all the way turned up every single day, From the moment I opened that door to the moment that I went back into the instructor hall. Every day I had to be 100% on. And so, to my point, calming down can sometimes just be going. All right, giving myself permission to go. Hey, Jason, we're out of it, you can bring it back to its normal steady state and we're just going to chill.
Speaker 2:I listen to audio books. When I finally can say that I'm fully recovered from this knee surgery, I love running, I love just being in my own mind. It's one of the biggest things that helps me slow down. And now I know, for some people like I'm not going inside my own head, that's a very scary place. Meditation is apparently terrifying for a great number of people, from what I've heard, and they're like yeah, that sounds really great.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'll do yoga, Because one of the kids' favorite things is just to sit with you. They're doing whatever it is that they're doing and they're just like will you just come sit with me? My wife's got very good at that as well. She'll just go hey, I don't need 100% of you, because I know that you probably don't have 100% of you right now. Will you just come sit with me? And sometimes it'll be.
Speaker 2:You know what? I just need to go do this. I need to do something that's just going to numb everything out, because the overstimulation that comes from today's society it's just so rampant and and and most days it's unavoidable. That's why we actually have like a whole subculture of people that unplug or go off the grid for a small period of time. They do social media or technology detoxes, Like that's just. If that's what's going to work for you, please do that, Because if you find yourself constantly doom scrolling, you're like what is the point of this? I have the people that I said like I say it's a whole subculture. But the people that do it, they never regret it. They're always like oh, it's great, I got to unplug, I got to unwind. I know some people are like I really don't want to go camping, Don't go camping, Just go do whatever it is without your phone.
Speaker 2:Because, yes, day one anxiety all time high. Because you're like what if I miss this phone call? What if I miss this email? What if so-and-so texts me? What if so-and-so FaceTimes me? I haven't seen them in forever.
Speaker 2:The first day is going to suck a little bit, or maybe it won't, but there's a pretty high chance that you're going to have that withdrawal and that's why we need it. For me, sometimes it's literally. I tell people hey, the do not disturb on my phone is from 9 pm to 5.30 am. If you text, I will not get it. If you call and you are not this person, this person or this person, it will not even go through. Because I have to give myself those moments and I still find myself plugged in, sometimes longer than I'd like to be. So, between giving myself permission to come back to whatever my normal status quo is, music is a huge one for me, running is a huge one for me and then just kind of unplugging yourself as often as you can, to whatever extent that you can, is definitely a good way to ground yourself and kind of refresh and restore, if that answers your question.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I find it interesting how you can be tired mentally and tired physically and they're completely different. And it's funny you mentioned the extroverted or introverted. Extrovert because I'm trying to convince my wife that's what I am, but she's not my name. But I remember one training day for the men group and there would be times where I'd have to run around and do a lot of things. So physically that makes sense for being drained.
Speaker 1:But there would be ones where it was just me maturing and keeping everyone on track for like the medic rodeo, so doing the stations on the radio, just making sure you know 250 people I mean they're supposed to be and I remember coming home and melting into the couch like no energy left, even though physically I didn't move. More steps you know probably have as many steps as I did the day before but the mental gymnastics to keep everyone where they're supposed to and talk to people and be, you know, upbeat and things like that, that's interesting. But I do have one question and it's something that's bugged me from OTS. They had a quote in OTS that said you'll have no bad days and I guess the idea was to not poison the well and bring people down. So to your point or what you had said. You have to maintain that level of energy and things like that. And back to what you talked about earlier with the rawness, can you incorporate, like you meant, having a good day but without dragging people down?
Speaker 2:Well, I won't like a hundred percent co-sign what the wall at OTS says, because, one, I'm jealous, I never got to see that wall. But two, I don't think we have bad days. I think we have bad moments. Now, that being said, it could be that I specifically have not had a full on bad 24 hours, and maybe that's the very literal part of me, but that's also what helps me to be optimistic as I go. The whole day was 24 hours, even if 16 of hours of those were bad. I got a good night's sleep last night and eight hours of that couldn't have sucked, and so, hopefully, the goal of that quote is not to what maybe it's like what you're saying, not to poison the well, but I think it helps us to reflect and to focus and really just kind of go, was that a bad five minutes or was that really the whole day? And sometimes it can be the whole day. I'm really not that guy that's going to say, hey, I promise you, if you really look, sometimes y'all we can't, we can't clear up the water enough to see through the mud, we just can't. Because I'll tell you this, that's my overall goal, but there are some days where I'm it's very easy for me to just go. You know what today? Intrusive thoughts, when this day sucks, that's it. It sucks, um. But if, if, if, somebody challenges me and somebody puts me back in that mindset of Jason, did the whole day suck? All right, if you're going to make me go through my whole mechanism, no, the whole day didn't suck. This part sucked, this part sucked and this part was okay. But yes, I mean, that itself sometimes can be exhausting. So for the people that are like Jason, is it really always on like this? No, it's not. I just aim for more days where I can focus primarily on the good.
Speaker 2:Bad days are going to happen. We're inclined, just mentally, to look at the negative thing. It's what allows us to scrutinize. It's what allows us to be skeptical. It's what allows us to scrutinize. It's what allows us to be skeptical. It's what allows us to use healthy judgment. We're going to have those days where we just look at it and go it wasn't my best day. It wasn't my good day. My daughter's not having a good day right now, but she got to go to gymnastics, so it's a good day right. This hour of the day is a good day for her, but I guarantee you the rest of the day while she's grounded not a good day. So, yes, good days, good days are going to happen, and sure you may have days that are not as good.
Speaker 2:But my, my challenge would be is in those moments that you're like, yes, this was a bad day, at least try and give yourself some solace of what was good about it. I'll co-sign it. If you say it's a bad day and you really truly can't find anything good about it, I'm right there with you. We'll co-sign it and call it a bad day and I can put one on the wall and go. You know what? I found? Somebody who had a legitimately bad day. Now, don't get me wrong. There are people that definitely have worse days than me. Like if I'm driving and I've had an awful day and I drive past a car accident and I'm like, well, one, I hope everything's all right with those folks and two, they're most certainly having a worse day than me. So it's just. I think it's really just all that perspective and again, it's, it's messy, it's not perfect. I'd love to say that I look at every day like it's a great day, but not all of them are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know that's tough. I actually released an episode just a couple ago. In my brief we talked about us losing my dad and she had asked me how I process. And it's interesting because it's kind of the same and I don't know if I'm trying to be too rational or what, but I always just think there's other things that happen in the world.
Speaker 1:And the example I used which might be a weird example, but I remember I think I made national news there was a family that had the duck boat thing, like the boat that goes from a car to a boat and it drives in the wind and what? Not one of the members of that phone wasn't able to get on with their family until this. I think it was a girl forget her age, I think it was a girl, forget her age, I think it was a teenage girl lost her entire family in a split second because the thing rolled over and everyone on the duck boat ended up perishing, and so I just think of things that are worse, and I don't know if that justification is healthy hopefully it is but I think of something like that. You went to school and you came home and six members of your family how big her family was are all completely gone. They didn't have any illness and so it was completely a shock.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you imagine how you process all that. Like ours was over the course of years and cancer, and it's not fun for anybody, no means. But you're able to process and kind of track that along the way and I can't imagine one losing a family and two in a split second. It's just so difficult. So I guess to your point like things could be worse and hopefully that's not a terrible way of looking at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you always try to be cautious, to not focus only on silver linings, but sometimes they do help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. So it looks like you got your daughter back. Is she back there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's back there now.
Speaker 1:Now she's stuck, so I have, I guess, one last question. Don't want to keep you for too long, but I'm curious your thoughts on ETBs and strats, and so I guess the final question is trying to navigate comparison, r structure and whatnot, and I think in the civilian sector you still have some type of annual appraisal and things like that, like what are your thoughts when the list comes out and the line is drawn where the person wants it to be, and they're just like I'm better than this person and I'm worse than that person, and things like that.
Speaker 2:But navigating comparison, Okay, well, um, oh man, you got like two one very military, specific and then navigating comparison, very like humanity as a whole thing. So I guess I'll I'll briefly touch on each one EPBs, opbs, strats, all that good stuff. Um, at the end of the day, what I'll say and this is just directly to anybody who might be listening maybe you didn't get the one that you thought you needed to get. Obviously, epbs are a little bit easier to stomach these days without all the extra stuff going on. The people putting undue weight on things you mentioned civilian appraisals and things like that my master's degree is in HR and performance appraisals each year are supposed to have a certain goal. You set that goal with your supervisor. You do the things. If you met the goal, then they go. Hey, we had talked about this at the beginning of the year. You did all these great things, the thing that we set the goal for, we're going to go ahead and push you forward for that. If you don't meet the goal, hey, here's some things that you fell short on. We're going to work on it. Next year We'll see it back. Let's push for this thing, and that's if you have a good supervisor, all that good stuff no different than the military.
Speaker 2:We've taken that process and we're getting closer to it now because the feedback is being kept between the raider and the raidee, but there's still extra stuff going on. It's the what about this block? Did you put the right things in it? And the thing is it's we're still. We just created a new game and that's another reason why I say we're in the matrix. Folks, it's not real. Is we just created a new game and we expect people to figure out the rules they want? I mean, I can't play a game of the new Mario thing without dying at least 12 times before I figure out exactly how it works. And we want people who are playing with their careers, their livelihoods, their way forward and we want them to figure it out in a day.
Speaker 2:And then we look at them and we go you're dumb, or you made a bad choice, or this is your fault. And we've got a process that didn't even have updated guidance out for it before we took it off, and you want to say that's our fault because our folks were putting fluff in things. It's like you didn't explain to us what the rules of the game were and you put us on the board and told us to play the game. That process I have a huge issue with. It was one of the big reasons why I had always said like I just want to be in a position where I feel like I can make an impact on something of that magnitude, because I feel like there's some things that we do great and then there are some things organizationally that we just seem to miss the mark on. Just Jason's Jason's thoughts, master started. Lookable is is reports as ordered, but Jason just has some issues with some stuff and I feel like that's okay. It's obviously still remaining professional.
Speaker 2:Explaining this to folks to where again staff sergeant me could have created a whole army of anarchists. I promise you he would have done it. But me going, I get why you're frustrated. Why you're frustrated is a completely normal thing to be frustrated about. That's not wrong. What's wrong is what we do without frustration.
Speaker 2:So EPBs, opbs, when they're used for exactly what they're supposed to be used for, we're able to capture what people did in the year. Tell that story. I always talk to people about their EPBs, opbs, as this is this year's chapter in your story. Whatever it's supposed to say, it needs to say that and at the end of the day, I always tell them be actively involved in whatever your story is going to be. Make sure that this chapter doesn't get written without your input, and so when you can look at it as the chapter of someone's story, I hope people take it more seriously. I hope they realize that this isn't just a tasker or this random admin paperwork that I've got to do. You have an opportunity to capture the successes and, potentially, failures of somebody over the course of an entire year. The other piece of this with the this is just the civilian aspect of it, and what was the word that you used again?
Speaker 1:Navigating comparison.
Speaker 2:Comparison yeah, that's a fun word. It's what we use to literally steal the joy and remove the actual achievements that we have in life. You could do absolutely everything right, but if the guy right next to you or the gal right next to you is doing it just a little bit better, if the guy right next to you or the gal right next to you is doing it just a little bit better, every bit of effort you put into it, every hour of sleep that you lost, every argument you had with your spouse, every bit of blood, sweat and tears that you poured into it no longer means anything. Y'all comparison will take everything from you and give you nothing in return. Very rarely do you get a positive thing out of comparison, because it is just this mixture of so many different emotions. Some people do get drive out of comparison because they will use it to inspire them to move more, but more often than not, comparison will take from you and put you at a lower point on the pedestal than you need to be at. You have done these amazing things. You have done the work. You're still doing the work. If you're going to compare yourself to anyone, compare yourself to yourself so that you can track your growth, you can give yourself feedback and you can track your progress and growth.
Speaker 2:I have this conversation with my children. I have this conversation with my wife. It have this conversation with my wife. It's okay to have high expectations for yourself. It's okay to set high standards.
Speaker 2:Like I said earlier, I'm so big on legacy and putting my name on things and it meaning something. I carry myself to a very high standard, which is why, if somebody tries, if I mess up, I'm going to beat myself up worse than you ever will. You don't have the power over me to punish me more than I will punish myself. You just don't have that ability, which is why I am that person. When you give me paperwork, I take it, sign it and give it back to you. I'll tell you my side of the story, of course, but you can't hurt me as much as I can hurt me. And so comparison you just have to be so cautious with it For a moment, maybe, but realistically, compare yourself to you, not to them. They have a whole different race that they're running, with different rules, different expectations, different challenges, all of that stuff. If you're going to compare somebody to you, it should just be the previous you.
Speaker 1:That is wonderful. There you go. Don't compare yourself to anyone else. You don't know what anyone else is going through. So I'm curious what's in the future for Illicit Optimist? You're about to have that baby. Are you on pause for a little bit?
Speaker 2:So I don't think so. I usually. Last year I had a pretty long stretch of off season. I usually go for about six to nine months for a season of it, with a weekly video and stuff like that, mostly because it gives me chances to recharge, but it also rolls into the holidays and stuff like that, and I'd like to be able to give my family that important time because it's a year that we've designated as very important for our family. Designated as very important for our family.
Speaker 2:So that's usually when I naturally taper off. It'll just be less uniform videos of me in a car and more regular guy like this videos in my car. Maybe I'll be a little bit tired about it. I might skip a week here and there if I really just can't mentally get myself there, because if I'm not inspired, I can't expect to inspire other people. But no, there's a lot of really exciting stuff. And expect to inspire other people, but no, there's a lot of really exciting stuff.
Speaker 2:This year I really wanted to focus on restoration and growth and repairing and things like that, because it's just not really a topic. Yeah, sure, there's videos here and there, but they get so bogged down and by no means do I have an obscenely large cult following. I just want there to be more words out there of like gosh, yes, it sucks, but we can still get through this. So I don't think that we're going to be turning off things earlier, because it'd be even earlier than last year. But yeah, it might slow a little bit, but I've got three months off of work so I figure I've got plenty of time to.
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe Jordan will make a couple of special appearances in some of the videos, but yeah, no, I think we're, and there's not really any like goal for like crazy big growth. My thing when I started this is I was like, if it just helps one person, I would really be okay if I had one follower and one like on every video every single week, because I really don't care and I don't mean to say that I don't care about the people that watch my videos. My goal is not to reach millions of people and impact millions of people, it's literally just one person. If I can make one person see themselves in a different light, be kinder to themselves and just change that mindset from something that's a little closer to toxic and a little bit closer to positive and optimistic, then let's do that, and along the way, all of the stuff in between. I'm here for that too.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah, that's exactly right. It's funny. I posted a link to the podcast on some Air Force-related thing and the number one comment. I think it was something we were doing, voting and whatnot, and it was like I hate Air Force influencers. They're the worst. I was like I don't consider myself an influencer, but I hope that, to your point, I help one person. So it's not fame, it's not fortune. I'm going to pay money to host it because I'm negative if we're talking about money. Yeah, definitely hoping we help some people. Well, jason, I appreciate you coming out. I hope all the listeners throw me their thoughts, throw me some questions. Let me know if there's anyone out there I need to talk to and have a conversation. But we're on Best Buy for audio, youtube for video, and I thank you. Thank you, jason, for coming out. I love you. Al. Well, that was awesome Good stuff, thank you.
