MindForce: Mental Fitness & Life Stories!
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MindForce: Mental Fitness & Life Stories!
Rising from the Ashes: Mariah Pettry on Overcoming Addiction, Embracing Healing, and Building Healthy Relationships
What does it take to rise from the depths of addiction and homelessness to a place of healing and purpose? Join us on Mindforce as Mariah Pettry candidly shares her story of resilience and transformation, marking seven years of sobriety from heroin. Mariah offers powerful insights into the importance of healthy relationships, both in her recovery journey and in her aspirations to become a therapist. Through her eyes, we explore the harsh realities of addiction, the impact of trauma, and the unwavering courage required to build a new life.
Listeners will uncover how trauma subtly weaves its way into our relationships, often going unnoticed until it surfaces in our behaviors and reactions. With a focus on emotional maturity and communication, I, as a trauma coach, share key strategies to navigate these challenges, including the "love sandwich" approach and Simon Sinek's advice on confrontation. This episode provides a compassionate exploration of addiction's intersection with trauma and codependency, offering a roadmap to recognizing and overcoming these patterns in pursuit of healthier dynamics.
Reflecting on personal experiences, we acknowledge the struggles of supporting loved ones through addiction and the necessity of loving from a distance when needed. Amidst stories of adversity, we pivot to the positives, identifying the green flags of healthy relationships characterized by trust and mutual respect. The conversation wraps up with a reflection on balancing life’s responsibilities with spontaneity, urging listeners to seize opportunities for meaningful experiences and cherish their relationships while they can.
Hi everyone, I'm Nate Shear, your host, and welcome to Mindforce, a podcast where we dive into love, life and learning, because your mind truly matters. Today we have Mariah Petrie and we'll be talking about trauma, addiction and, most importantly, healthy relationships. So, mariah, I'd like to give you the floor for some opening comments. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, sure. So I am Mariah and I'm a wife, a mama of two. I'm currently going to school to be a therapist and I have some minors in marketing and sales, and I have seven years sober from heroin. I was homeless and lived on the streets for about five years and lived on the streets for about five years. I went to 26 rehabs, 12 overdoses and I'm still alive and kicking.
Speaker 1:Wow, those are some impressive numbers, but not quite in the right way, but impressive all the same.
Speaker 2:So I'd like to open the floor and see if you had any questions for me before we start on the interview. Hmm, so before we kind of began we were talking about how you've moved around and I kind of want to know what that did. Has it built you up like mentally and has it helped you, or has is there times where it gets like a little bit hard to move every time?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's a really good question. I think the military as a whole, being active duty and moving every couple of years, has really built up a lot of resiliency in me. One thing that me and my wife joke about quite a bit is so we landed in Washington Seattle, Washington, from Japan, from our last move, and then had to pick up a car from my sister and take that car from Seattle all the way to Florida, all the way to Fort Walton Beach, and so along the way we had this trailer that had eight large luggages across the back and we stopped at different hotels and you know people like to steal stuff and, you know, not as trustworthy as it used to be. So we had to take these eight luggages in every night to each hotel, at every time we stopped, and every time we seemed to do it there'd be someone in the parking lot and every time it seemed like I don't know if it was a hundred percent, but it sure felt like it Somebody would say how do you do it?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We both looked at each other and was like we have to, there's, there's no option. So it was always interesting to us because they were making it seem like you know, you, you, you make that choice, or you get a choice, or there is a say in the matter. Um, we get orders, we get directed to go somewhere and we figure out the best way. And you know, maybe we scream at times or cry at times or whatnot, but like you just take the next step forward and you keep going. So I, there's some power no-transcript getting your utilities set up in a foreign country and things like that. So, like we were talking about before we started.
Speaker 1:But resiliency comes on the other side of something difficult. You don't get to have the badge of resiliency without doing the hard stuff. So I think, going through all these different things, you get to the other side and you know we'll have done something before. Maybe it's not that, maybe it's adjacent, maybe it's you know, a parallel thing, but we've gone through difficult times and look back and and gotten them done. So that was a little longer than I think, but that's a great question. I think it really builds resiliency getting through those things. No-transcript. I was somewhere and they said can I have your number? And I have to look it up, my phone, and every time they kind of look at me a little goofy why do you not know your own phone number? I'm like if you knew I had six phone numbers over the last you know 10 years, you'd understand like I have to go into amazon to look at my previous addresses to figure out where I could live sometimes. So yeah, it's definitely funny pretty interesting.
Speaker 1:Uh, we have to do our security clearance every 10 years and every time you do that you have to say everywhere you've ever lived and every phone number you ever had, and so you're like oh boy it's funny because we commonly use amazon. Now everyone's like check your addresses. Oh, all your addresses are still in there. Where did I ship stuff before?
Speaker 2:that's a good tip. I never thought of that. That's good.
Speaker 1:That's a good tip Amazon your addresses and they should all be there, unless you deleted them, but they should be there.
Speaker 2:I did want to ask before we started.
Speaker 1:the show has nothing to do with weather, of course, but you are in Georgia, so could you give us a sneak peek into kind of how things are going there? And I'm sure it's pretty rough, but how are things going?
Speaker 2:Man. So we're good now. I mean, helene rocked us as a community, like as a whole. It was really I've never been through. I'm originally from West Virginia. We moved down here like right before the pandemic, like January 2020. And so I've never been through like a tornado or a hurricane. And whenever they said this was coming, it wasn't supposed to hit us like it was supposed to kind of go away from us, but it shifted and um, the there was tornado outbreaks like everywhere. A tornado went around our house like you could see where it went. I mean the whole. Like the kids clubhouse that was attached to a tree got picked up and thrown. My greenhouse was done, the chicken coop was done, but the chickens were safe and the ducks so like they stayed grounded. I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 2:Just little things like, but it didn't touch the structure of the home, thank God, like that was the biggest thing was the wind. We didn't have the flooding like Tennessee and North Carolina did Like. I keep seeing videos pop up on like Instagram or Facebook and it's just so devastating to watch. I couldn't imagine my home that we own that we worked so hard for, just like washing it or watching it wash away. There was no gas anywhere. There were no generators.
Speaker 2:Price gouging was happening. Gas prices were like $5 a gallon because you couldn't have like regular or plus, there was only premium. They were out and no gas trucks would come. All of the grocery stores had no, like you know, like the outer edge of the grocery stores where there's all the fresh produce and freezer and fridge stuff, meats all of that was gone um. So it was interesting. We had to drive like an hour or two away to get what we needed and then, thank God, my husband, like my father-in-law, he met us like three hours away to give us a generator. So that's how we got one to make sure the kids had what they needed. Food wasn't spoiled.
Speaker 2:It's been a journey, it has but, we've got everything cleaned up and we're good now, like we're kind of back to life. We didn't have electric for about a week and a half, um, so yeah, it was interesting, but we uh, we made, we made do so.
Speaker 1:That's a while. That was out in Guam when typhoon dolphin came through and I lost power for like nine days. So that's my only experience without having power in that tropical environment where it's like high humidity and high heat. I think I ended up dragging my mattress out to the back patio just to get some fresh air and I woke up covered in bug bites. So it was like one of the other covered in bugs, or. But I did want to ask you had talked about like that survival instinct and things like that, or people coming together to help each other and thing like stuff like that yes, so we have, like, I highly recommend that, even if you don't have like any um, you know, like natural disasters that have happened.
Speaker 2:There's facebook groups for these small communities and I went and like everybody's updating you for one, for two. There's people like, hey, they're giving out. There's people like, hey, they're giving out MREs, they're giving out tarps, they're giving out water and ice, and so that was extremely helpful. The National Guard, I believe, came down here, but they were really busy and they couldn't take it to these really small communities where some people couldn't afford, you know, gas to drive two hours away to go get gas or to go get food. And there's children there, there's pregnant women, elderly, disabled, you know.
Speaker 2:So me and my friend and a bunch of other people it wasn't just me and her there was a bunch of other people saying like, hey, does anybody need anything extra? We can bring it to you, we can drop it off, and um, so, yeah, we all, really it was, and I didn't really know my community before this to be honest, I'm kind of a homebody so, um, we I got to know a lot of people in the community really came together. It was, it was. It was pretty amazing.
Speaker 1:That's good. It's good to hear they're coming together. So we'll transition over to trauma. We'll move on from hurricanes, but it is really interesting to hear all that's going. Hopefully everyone's safe through this next one as well. Hit Tampa pretty hard. But the first question I had for you in the realm of trauma how do you think trauma can sneak into a relationship without us even realizing it?
Speaker 2:Good question. So first of all, something that I have found I was a trauma coach for three years and then, you know, I kind of pivoted to like business and trauma. You know I kind of pivoted to like business and trauma. But something that I've noticed within all of my clients and based off of all the research that I've done, is that our emotional maturity so not our maturity or like obviously how grown we are, but our emotional maturity, our reactions and our behaviors are stuck at the age where we had our first big T trauma and so our reactions in our relationships, the behaviors and you know, certain things that we can't control, almost like temper tantrums in our own little ways. I think that is what really happens in relationships. If we get into an argument or just little nitpick things, I think those things after a while can kind of build on top of each other and really eventually do some damage, especially if one or the other one, like the husband or the wife or the friends, aren't willing to work with each other. Does that answer your question?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. I'll kind of expand on it a little bit. How have you noticed that unresolved trauma? How does it shape the way people act in the relationships? Do you have any examples that aren't obviously sharing anything? But? Yeah, so wait so say the question again so that unresolved trauma, how does that show up? And how they act to the relationship, the things they do to their partner, um, can you give any examples of that?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, um, I I think that the way that we're raised, sometimes we don't recognize that things are wrong, sometimes we just it's the culture. We were talking about cultures earlier and even though, like America has its own culture, the UK, japan, like everyone, has their own culture, each family has their own culture and their own way of doing things and maybe the way that they're acting or responding, they don't recognize that it's wrong. Not that it's an excuse at all, but sometimes people need to be aware and need to be told hey, like this, this is bothering me, this is hurting me. That's how I would kind of see it, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. I'm curious what your advice would be for that first step, because it feels like when you go to church and you hear a good sermon or you hear certain bits of information, you're like everyone else could use this. It always seems like it's like everyone else, so you wouldn't want to say like you always do this to me. So if you were having uh things like that, what's the first step to try to get through that?
Speaker 2:yeah. So the being comfortable, I mean you being able to be comfortable you should be able to be able to talk to your partner or your friend in a comfortable way, without thinking, oh God, this is going to escalate. Oh no, this is going to be bad. If you don't feel safe and secure in that situation and speaking to them, there's a red flag immediately, like you know, but it is.
Speaker 2:It's not always good to point the finger and say like, say it in a mean way, way, there's a loving way to go about everything, like you, there's, there's a way that you can work things out in a way that doesn't escalate the situation, it doesn't hurt the other person, it just makes them aware of it. And so, maybe in a like a, like a, like a love sandwich, you like this, this is. Or, hey, you know, the other day, whenever we were doing this, I remember you said something to me and it may not seem like a big deal, but for me it was and it hurt me a little bit. But, um, you know I love you. Is there any way, I don't know like some kind of like you got you gotta like love on top.
Speaker 2:Let them know the issue love right after? Does that make sense and there's a way to go about it, instead of trying to point it all at them and make them feel because a lot of people will shut down if they feel defenseless or like they're a problem people. My husband's kind of like that it'll take things personal, and so our relationship is kind of different, though, in a way that we we joke a lot and we may argue, but we'll blow it off for a little bit, know that we need to go our separate ways for just some, you know, just a few hours or something, and then we'll come back together and we'll like laugh about it and everything will be fine, but not ever. I recognize not everybody's like um, so yeah, that kind of went that way. Sorry, but that's kind of what in my mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that makes sense. I heard Simon Sinek. He talked about it once and he said if you mention three things, no matter what the order is or whatnot, if you mention the three, confrontations will always be better, I guess all the science, the research or whatnot, and it's what you've done specifically. So you got to avoid the always and the nevers, because that's not specific. You never take out the trash and things like that. You just like you said, like hey, last Wednesday this occurred, so you could be specific with that, how it made you feel, which you just touched on as well. So that brings it back to the person instead of kind of pointing it the other way.
Speaker 1:I felt this way and there's really nothing the other person can do too much with that, because it's how they feel. And then the last thing he says is what will happen if it continues? So he ends with you know, if you continue this, I'll, you know, drive farther away, I'll lose respect, you know whatever that impact is. And then you just stop and he said you can repeat it again, but don't say anything else, and then let it be. And then the person has to, you know, identify and process that and they could either you know change what they're doing or they keep doing it. But the boundary of you know saying what would happen if it continues, then unfortunately that outcome has to come. But I like that it uh, two of the three were definitely there, uh, in your answer.
Speaker 2:So that was really good, really good.
Speaker 1:I don't think I've ever heard that that's good yeah, being specific and how it made you feel I think are super important, and the last one's just there. Hopefully you know the person does try to help, but if not, I mean you have to continue that boundary. So which leads us into the next question. The question I had moves into the my lost custody of my mom and my grandma around.
Speaker 2:That's mainly who I had in my life during you know my like 10, 15 years of, or 10, 11 ish years of addiction and I would steal from them. I would always ask them for money and whether I said it was for gas, whether I said it was for cigarettes or whatever, I would go and run and go buy dope with it. So you can never, first the first thing, first and foremost never, ever, ever, ever cash, never give money. That is the first boundary, absolutely, because it doesn't matter what they say it's for. If they need a light bill paid and they have children, their children, with them still, then okay, I can pay it for you. What's the name of the company? What's the? You know? Things like that? But even that to it, if they're asking can you pay my light bill, can you pay my water bill, can you give me gas, can you?
Speaker 2:Do these constantly is totally unhealthy and they're taking advantage. What needs to happen, ultimately, is they really need to fall flat on their face and I know that sounds so harsh. It does, but it's the absolute truth, because as long as they're comfortable and as long as they have everything that they need, they're not going to have any reason to turn around and change. This is comfortable. I can keep doing this Like I have everything that I need. I have shelter, food, water, whatever.
Speaker 2:My family and I was not allowed at their homes because I kept stealing from them, even sentimental items at one point and it breaks my heart looking back on it now and I don't even recognize that person that I'm talking about whenever I talk about that. But anyway, so they eventually never. They didn't give me money, they didn't really help me with much. Sometimes if I said I was really hungry, they would send a pizza to the abandoned house I was staying at or wherever I was occasionally, and then they moved away. So I was there by myself and rock bottom hit and the trap door fell through. Another rock bottom hit, trap door fell through, fell through. Another rock bottom hit. Trap. Trap door fell through.
Speaker 2:So the boundaries are no money, absolutely not. You can love them and you can talk to them and you can support them. Let them know that they are loved because in that moment, no matter how angry, frustrated and like they've lost, like all respect for themselves, so no matter how they're acting like you can never go wrong with um answering people in love, like you can never go wrong with that. So all they really need is like encouragement, support and other than that. I think that that's all that it needs to be, because if you keep giving them things like I said, the comfortability is going to stay there and you know they'll run with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. I have to ask hopefully not too personal, but listeners that are out there like I would never do heroin, that's too far of a bridge. But could you walk us through how you know the trauma and how you got to that point?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, so I was. My mom was married about six times because of, like the men were, either they didn't act appropriately towards me or they were abusive towards my mom. So she, she married a lot and then, like through no fault of her own, and we moved around a lot as well. So, one of so my dad remarried once, and this my stepmom was extremely abusive from three to nine. And then, during my one of my mom's marriages, I had an older brother who also began to abuse me from about 10 to 15. And I held that in. I didn't tell my mom until 15.
Speaker 2:Whenever, you know know, something bad was really going to happen and I knew that, like because it almost did.
Speaker 2:So we moved back to west virginia, um, but from 12, like at 12, I started drinking and smoking, like just you know, uh, with my older brother and or stepbrother, and so whenever we moved back to west virginia, the people who were smoking and drinking were also doing small pain pills at parties and things, and so I would do it and I got addicted around 16, maybe, and I was doing them and I had to have them at this point. Well, you build up a tolerance to the small pain pills and then you need a stronger pain pill and then they start getting really expensive and, um, I remember at the time the pain pills that I was doing costed like up to 180 dollars for one pill, and I was a waitress at the time at two different places and I couldn't keep up with it until I met a guy. He was a drug dealer and he became my boyfriend. That's the father of my son and he passed away two years ago, unfortunately, but anyway. So he was like well, you know, the pills are this much, I'm gonna quit selling them.
Speaker 2:But there is heroin and it's the same thing, it's cheaper, it might be dirtier, but it's cheaper. And I'm like, okay, I'm sick right now and I'm not paying $180, I'll just pay $20 for this right. And so that's kind of how that escalated.
Speaker 1:So is your thought process like trying to escape and not feel, or can you kind of explain what that thought process is, or is it just kind of chasing the next thing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so during my addiction I could have used all of the reasons in the world to use for trauma, like, oh, I've been through this and I've been through this, and then on the streets and in the addiction world, traumas happen to you left and right. You're always on edge, so I could have used that. I honestly wanted to be like the bad girl. I had a pretty decent life, you know my mom like I had everything that I needed. But do you remember that movie 13 coming out?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I was like, yeah, like I want to be that girl, and piercing my belly button in the school bathroom. I mean, I really craved that. But then I also kept using for two reasons, nothing to do with my trauma. First of all, I I like the way that it made me feel and it could, like it opened me up where I was kind of shy, and so I liked the feeling. I like the way it made me feel.
Speaker 2:It made me feel warm and you know, like this fuzzy feeling for maybe five hours and also I use for so long because the withdrawals are absolutely horrendous. I mean, like I, I would like you're. It's like the flu times, like a thousand, you're just shaking and you're cold but you're hot, but like the feeling of the wind brushing off your skin makes your skin crawl, like you're throwing up, you've you're. You're in the bathroom constantly, your eyes are watering, your nose is water is running, just everything it's. It's absolutely awful. And then if somebody told you like I have this and it'll make you feel better instantly, you take it or you can feel like this for about a week and a half.
Speaker 1:Dang. Yeah, that's rough.
Speaker 1:Yeah that is rough. Um, so I I had a question in the military, I think you know there's probably a widespread issue with alcohol and so you have a lot of people that are drinking, um, and a lot of times just chalked up to socially and things like that. What are some of the ways where you know that addiction has, you know, passed a certain boundary or whatnot? Because I feel like a lot of times like, oh no, you know, it's fine, it's fun, I just do it. Um, are there key things where you're like maybe I need help? What are those?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, um, deep down, whether anybody wants to admit it out loud or not, the first thing is is they will know, like they will know, that they take things too far. Um, but it's like the person, like whenever we first moved down here, and I thought that I was like a normal adult and like oh, I can function now, like I've got my kids, everything's good.
Speaker 2:Like, um, I thought I could drink a glass of wine as like a normal person you know, using quotations and um, it went from literally a glass of wine to two bottles of wine within a week and that lasted for about a month, every single night. And there's people who just take it way too far, like I'm not just going to drink one or two beers, I have to keep going. That's an addiction side of things. I have to keep going. That's an addiction side of things. But also, if you're drinking every single night, if you're drinking, you know, if your weekend, if you cannot go through a weekend or a week without alcohol because you just you can't be yourself or you feel like that's just what you always do and it could turn into something else. But then again, like I said, there's an aspect of how much do you drink. So are you just drinking like two or three beers on Saturdays and Sundays, or are you drinking like cases of beers Saturday and Sunday and you feel like crap Monday and Tuesday, right? So does that answer?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's perfect. Do you think there is people, personality wise or whatever, that have those more addictive personalities where they just need to do all or none?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's in our genes.
Speaker 2:I think that, uh, I think that alcoholism and addiction, which you know, addiction, alcoholism, it's the same thing. Any addict can become addicted to anything, and so it comes down, like from the generations. I really do believe that it's just something where we don't get enough dopamine. That just runs through our genes and as soon as we feel that rush of dopamine that we've never felt before, that like neurodivergent people maybe have, from simple little things, I think that's. I think it runs, runs in the veins, and you've got to kind of like a generational curse, kind of you've got to you've got to stop it, or a generational curse kind of you've got to, you've got to stop it. Um, or it's going to continue down the line that makes sense.
Speaker 1:So when you were, you know, going through that process and things like that, you started to talk about the trap door. Um, but what was the actual pivot point where you were at the bottom and needed to, to get help?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, um. So I was homeless, but I was also a prostitute for about five years during my homeless stint and I lost all dignity. I couldn't even look myself in the mirror. I weighed like 98 pounds, soaking wet. I'm'm 140 now, so like nine. I mean I was skin and bones. I was doing heroin and meth. So I was, like you know, doing that to stay awake to make sure that I could pay for my dope for the next day. It was just a really chaotic cycle and, like I said, I mean I had overdosed 12 times. Each time I overdosed I reached in my pocket looking for my dope.
Speaker 2:Each time I went to rehab I would run away, um, and I hated God like I did. I absolutely hated God, um, because I thought he was the cause of everything that had happened to me, of everything that had happened to me, and I had went through something which I don't you know, I don't want to trigger anyone, but I had met somebody who had set me up, basically, and it involved like multiple people, and they left me for dead and I went, I remember calling a friend and they came and picked me up and let me take a shower at their house and just, you know, kind of clean up, um. So I went there and I remember being um like on the floor on my knees getting ready to get in the shower, on the floor on my knees getting ready to get in the shower, and I was like, okay, god, so if you're real, then you're going to prove yourself to me, because I don't believe you, I don't I. All these people talk about you and how great you are.
Speaker 2:All these churches have shunned me. They've all made me feel like so disgusting, they've made me feel like I am not worthy of you because I judged God through people and so like imperfect people. But I said, if you're real, you're going to get me out of this. You can prove yourself and if you do, I will be a soldier for you. I'll go to war, I'll do whatever it is, I don't care.
Speaker 2:Like just tell me, just, you know, but that's if you can get me out of this. So let's see what you're made of. You know, like it was my last hope, I was so angry, I was so I know I'm like all bubbly and cheery, you know, now, but I was like a oh gosh. I mean, I was just an angry, angry soul for a very long time and I wasn't mad at anybody else necessarily. I don't think I was even mad at God. I think I think I just wanted somebody else to blame than myself, you know.
Speaker 2:And um, so, uh, two weeks later I um, I got a felony, I got arrested and I went to jail for about four months, got out in between there on probation for a weekend and overdosed twice in that weekend. And I she, my probation officer was like it was like you failed your drug test and I was like, yeah, I thought you'd give me a shot and give me a chance. You know it was my, it was my. I just got a deal. No, so she threw me back in jail and then I had a meeting with her and she said so here's the deal I can get you out of jail, but you will be court ordered to a year long faith-based rehab no phone, no cigarettes, no secular TV, no secular music. You don't go anywhere except for church and you're just around a big group of women and I'm like, but like so bad.
Speaker 2:My 27th rehab but I was like it's better than here, like I knew the women in there. I wasn't necessarily like like it's better than here, like I knew the women in there, I wasn't necessarily like I. I wasn't like uncomfortable that there I was actually happy because I had shelter, because I had food and um, all that. So anyway I go and I was really angry at first for the first three months and then everyone was so welcoming, so, so loving, everybody's, so nice to me and I eventually started reading the Bible and listening to what they said at church and the biggest thing was is that they said that there was nothing wrong with me. I thought there was something wrong with me.
Speaker 2:I used to look at normal people and think how do they do life with me? I used to look at normal people and think how do they do life? Like, how do they just like wake up and take care of their kids and like do dishes and laundry? Like how do people do that? You don't, you don't understand that. It was the fear of responsibility for me and so, yeah, I stay. I actually stayed an extra year helping the women coming in and met my husband, got pregnant and got my son back and had my daughter and yeah there you go.
Speaker 1:That's the turning point. So I wanted to ask you, helping out with the trauma section and addiction and things like that, what advice do you have for those family members and things like that? I feel like the family members are there. You said kind of love from afar and you know love can never go wrong. But how you know what advice you have for those family members that are watching, because you said 12 times 26, so someone else is watching and watching you fail repeatedly, like how do they not get burnt out?
Speaker 2:um so watching you fail repeatedly, like how do they not get burnt out? Um, well, so family members and loved ones of addicts and alcoholics go through a worse time than what the addicts and alcoholics do, because they are numb 100 and then they, they. But I also want them to know that they are. That is not them I. The decisions that I made in my addiction are something that I cannot even imagine doing. Now they have this flow around them. That's like literally a blindfold to consequences and what they're doing to other people my mom and them. I hurt, I mean, everyone in my family. I have apologized to them and apologized to them and they're you know, all they wanted was for me to be where I am now.
Speaker 2:But just like I have a friend whose son he just keeps going to jail and he keeps getting in trouble and he keeps relapsing and they don't know what to do. And she sat down, she asked, she invited me over to come talk and she had pen and paper. And she's like so what can we do to get him sober? And I'm like so here's the thing, we have no control. And that's probably the biggest step that they have to take and it's the hardest step ever is accepting that there's nothing you can do and also accepting that this is not their fault with them, it isn't their parenting, it isn't a result of anything that they have done wrong Because, like I said, I will probably be the only person to ever admit this, but I got high because I wanted to.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed it. So there's, I went through trauma in my life and I was a young child, but that is not the reason I got high. I wasn't even thinking about that. So, yeah, so the you know, accepting that there's not really much that they can do to change them, even though they wish they could just like shake them back into like you know, like just just get it. And until they and until they finally hit that breaking point of I am willing to do whatever it is, I don't care what it is, I'll do it. That's the complete surrender. That's whenever they'll change and there's nothing anybody can do. Unfortunately, I hate that's a bad answer.
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry but it's the truth.
Speaker 1:No, no, I completely agree. I know I've had a couple episodes and we had talked on a person making the choice themselves in multiple different episodes. So I mean that comes up kind of repeatedly. We want to make people do certain things, but ultimately it's the person. The person has to come around, even on completely different topics we've talked about so, not even just addiction and things like that, but making better choices and things like that sometimes or not, sometimes, I think all the time it's up to that person. Especially when it comes from a parent or someone else, that's not cool. When it comes from you or a sibling or whatnot, you don't know, you don't understand. But yeah, it is kind of interesting. I wanted to ask in trauma and addiction, have you seen that lead to codependent relationships?
Speaker 2:A hundred percent Because we're codependent on I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1:No, no, you can go.
Speaker 1:So you mean like trauma and addiction combined and then go into relationships, or Either, or just how that, that dependency, because you had kind of talked about cycles and so another question I wanted to ask was kind of getting out of that cycle. So you have the boyfriend that is the drug dealer and he's supplying and you know that kind of has a whole nother cycle, even though we're talking about the overall cycle of addiction. But how, how does that work, as we're talking about healthy relationships If you're codependent, how do you get out?
Speaker 2:So something I did mention was a very, very abusive relationship. So this is like somewhat embarrassing, but I've already told my story so many times, but it's, it happened. So I was with the drug dealer, but I was also with somebody else, a guy I'd been on and off with for about three years and he was extremely like mentally and physically abusive. The the, my son's father, wasn't abusive, he just, you know, did the drugs and it was like a more like we would argue. But anyway, the abusive relationship that I was in. I used my whole pregnancy with my son and I thought that it was this guy's baby and it wasn't. It ended up being, you know, the drug dealers and so it was a very abusive relationship from start to finish. It always was and I was and I thought that I would be the one to save and change him, because I couldn't save or change myself and I believe that's kind of what like codependency has to do with was. It was like I thought that nobody else would love me or I thought that he was eventually going to change. I never got out of it. He actually hit me so hard that he knocked me out with my son in my arms and that's how I lost Cussie, my son. Then he smashed my phone. He called my mom, smashed my phone, left and they came um and got my son from me, so he left.
Speaker 2:Um, I think it's just like addiction, though you it's. It is an addiction. A codependent, abusive relationship is is something that you know. It's going to get worse and worse, and worse and worse, and whenever it gets to the point where you just can't take it anymore. If I could have gotten out of it sooner, I would. I've never done it personally, so I'm not really that. I'm not the person to say how to get out of it, because I there's more than just like surface level generic answers there. I feel like that would need to come from somebody who, like, has went through a severely or like a codependent abusive relationship and came out of it because there's more to it than just like leave, become aware that they're hurting you.
Speaker 1:You know so yeah, that totally makes sense. So we'll flip it. Then we'll go on the more positive note. That's probably the easier way so we've talked about red flags. Red flags are good. Uh, what are some green flags? How do you know you're in a good, healthy relationship?
Speaker 2:Awesome, okay, I can do that one. I actually have an amazing, amazing husband. Wow, I don't know. Like he is my best friend. I feel like he is a part of me. I call him after everything that happens during my day. I mean, like I can call him. He doesn't act aggravated with me, he'll call me and do the same thing. We joke all the time.
Speaker 2:Green flags would be the comfortable feeling of like I don't have to really impress this person anymore. I mean it's good to get dressed up and get cute, like I love doing that. Like you know, I know that I'm dressed up today, so he's going to come home and be like oh, you know, like you look beautiful, you know beautiful, you know, um, but um, anyway, the comfortable aspect, um, and really like the best friend thing, I really think that's what it is like I can call him and know that he would be there whenever we um talk about things. Also, like, if we're arguing, we have, I think, everybody's so everybody has their own unique personality and so it really just depends on, like, how their personalities get along together. Um, are they constantly clashing? Are you you constantly arguing? Things like that, if you're always going against each other and somebody's too stubborn to realize like recognize, oh, that hurt her or that hurt him. You know, like having empathy for one another? Yeah, does that even I don't know. I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I hope that makes sense. Yeah, I think so. I guess what I was trying to get, after a little bit, is I've been married twice and I remember going through the first one and you have some challenges and things are difficult. And it's interesting because at that point you know you've never been married before and so it seemed like things were, you know, more difficult than they should have been. But I thought they were difficult because that was just the way it is.
Speaker 1:But being in the second one, you start to feel that connection and that you know that click and things like that. So, even though not all days are perfect, because there's going to be ups and downs and life is going to be difficult Like I think you said, the best friend in that connection, because there's going to be you know challenges and you know disagreements on how the dishes go in the dishwasher and finances and you know other things. But I think in life there's everything about balance. So I think you can't be polar opposites, because then it's too hard for you to connect or understand where that person comes from. You also don't want to date the copy of yourself because that's weird and so you want like things where you know it's not exactly you but it's not polar opposites.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, I heard, you know, growing up we would say opposites attract. But it wasn't until later, after I went through my first marriage, I found that they continued the phrase or someone else, maybe a different researcher, or whatnot. They said opposites attract, but then they attack because they're so far apart when they'd come into different disagreements and things. They were so far apart. They were attracted initially because that's something that you don't identify with and it was so interesting. It's like I'm not that and so I'm, you know, spontaneous and crazy and whatnot.
Speaker 1:And uh, my first wife you know very, you know list organized and you know the example I always use is going to Disneyland. Like I'll just go to Disneyland and walk around, it is what it is and she'd have like 8 AM, 8, 15, 8, 20, 8, 30. And that's relaxing and good for her to have that list of like what rides you're going on in what specific order, and for me, that drains me and so, um, you want someone to be slightly different, um, but not too far different. So I think, um, as with anything in life, it's all about balance. But, uh, do you have anything else on, like some of the disagreements and things that come up that you know are healthy but uh, you know not too healthy, but you know not too far. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, not everything's going to be perfect right.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, that's right. I know I make my relationship seem like butterflies and rainbows and like for the most part it is, but in the beginning it was very rocky. We are both recovering addicts and so we both got sober around the same time, ish, and so he actually got sober after me he was actually using during my dog, while I was pregnant with my daughter, and so we really struggled in the beginning. So those disagreements are.
Speaker 2:Divorce is so easy to come by nowadays, and I swore that you know, after watching my mom go through relationship after relationship, that I really, once I got married I'm staying married Like you. Like I tell him, I joke with my husband all the time. I'm like, well, you're stuck with, like you're stuck with me now. Like if you leave, like you know, I'll get your life insurance, but I would never. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So, but there is disagreements and there is things that, um, you're going to disagree on. But it's about overcoming that and trying not to make it such a big deal. But that is so true. We look for the things that we're missing in ourselves, sometimes in our partners, and so women crave love and men crave respect. That's you know what psychology kind of teaches, and so being appreciative of what each other does is something that I found really helps our relationship. But if yeah, if he was a complete, he's like super anxious and I'm the calm, annoyingly optimistic one, so we do balance each other out. It is good to have like to balance each other out, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so funny. I used to hear how come you're not worried more? I was like I don't know, is your wife anxious. Yeah, yeah, more so than me. And she sometimes, like, wants me to be more. I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I think that's splitting up responsibilities and things like that. But I don't know, my dad passed pretty young, in his 50s, and there was like a lot of life left before him and so some of those things like I was always pretty upbeat and bubbly and optimistic and things like that. But when he passed and like didn't get to do a lot of the things, he left like a good chunk of money for my mom and gave that to her and like I just kind of dwell on that quite a bit because he worked, you know, 50, 60 hours a week, put the stuff aside, gave it to my mom, which of course super appreciative to. But it's like we wanted to take a trip was one thing we wanted to do. I was like, let's just pick a spot on the map, like rome, let's go see the coliseum or something. But he was so convinced that you know I'll just beat this, beat the cancer, be done. And then you know we'll go and then one year turned into two years and then, uh, so on from there and you know kept deteriorating.
Speaker 1:So you know, money is one thing. You can't take it with you and I wish we would have just jumped on an airplane, went and did something, um, and so that kind of leads me into like you only live once, not like no responsibility, yolo, just like go crazy and get a Ferrari. But there's just not too much. It's going to take down a whole day of my time. You know. There's only so much that. You know, figure it out, bounce back and move on, because you know we don't know when the last day is going to be.
Speaker 2:So I kind of carry that on a little bit so yeah, how long ago was it that he passed away?
Speaker 1:uh, it's been five, six years, I forget the exact time frame um, but yeah it's uh rough.
Speaker 1:My family's still going through a little bit of challenges with that. Like my little brother was in a transitional period, so I think it's interesting you mentioned the big T earlier. He was graduating from high school and so he's supposed to be going to college. His friends were all going to go out and have fun and it happened right then and it just seems like it's really been a challenge for him because my little sister was younger, I was older, had the support system, my family and things like that, but it really just kind of wrecked my, my little brother there in the middle because he wanted to transition and go and do the things, just to do and have fun. And college is, you know, a good, good time, and so that really, um, you don't take your dad in a wheelchair to your high school graduation.
Speaker 2:You know that's not the way it's supposed to be so yeah, there's a lot of little things that go into as it's. So, uh, I'm so sorry there's a lot of little things that go into it. So I'm so sorry there's a lot of things that it that happens. I'm sure he's watching down on all of y'all, you know, but at the same time it's still really hard. We can say, you know, while he's watching us but he's not there, like if you wanted to call him, you know. So I'm really sorry about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the things that get me. It's interesting how everyone processes it differently. I think my brother, my sister, I got hit pretty hard. My sister just got married, uh two weeks, uh, two weeks ago, and so didn't have anyone to walk her down the aisle.
Speaker 1:And so my sister and brother, I think they have the challenges of the bigger things, but for me, me, it's uh, for some reason, the small things like, uh, we switched uniforms in the military and we went from one to another and my dad was in and, uh, for some reason I wanted to call him and just you know kind of joke about how we changed. I get the new stuff, I got to get the new boots, and so that first day I wore in the new uniform I just had a rough day, um, and that's such a small minor detail, but it's like that'd be fun just to exchange this thing with someone. That's important to me and, you know, be able to do that. But so it is interesting. I think they get hit with the bigger things and I kind of get hit with the smaller things that you know maybe shouldn't matter but matter to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're big to you. Yeah, absolutely. Things that remind you of him yeah, absolutely interesting.
Speaker 1:I lost my grandpa too and I wrote this up on facebook because it was so interesting. Me, I sat in a dirt field with him in this old, I think, nissan truck and he taught me how to drive stick, and so we sat and he would not let me leave. First gear it was roll the car stop, roll the car stop for I think, hours, like an hour, two hours. It was quite a while I didn't get to do second, third, fourth, like none of the fun ones you'll figure out how to roll the car, because that's the hardest one.
Speaker 1:And so, uh, I was living in japan, I got a new car for myself and it was a stick shift and I was driving, uh, on my way to work and just a waterworks. I just started crying and had this huge, overwhelming outpour of emotion because I thought back to him. Spending his time and effort to teach me is now something that I enjoy. I love shifting through the gears and pushing in the clutch and these things, and I wouldn't have had that if he didn't sit on some dusty field in the middle of Northern California, uh, teaching me in this truck. And and so it's interesting, cause, yeah, I do kind of get hung up on those smaller things, but at that point I mean I don't know what the years are, but I mean he had been gone for 15, 20 years, I mean quite a while.
Speaker 2:So, uh, sometimes it sits in in in dormant and uh, you know, I never really thought about it and but that day I just I hit the parking lot at work and, um, yeah, it was rough, it was a downpour yeah the little things like our brain will release, like memories and things, like to process the trauma, um, whenever it feels as though we're in a spot to process it, and so at that time your brain's like here's this, you know, like here, here's this memory, and then, like that was the healing from it, you, you didn't, like you know, shake it off, or whenever you let it process, so that was good. Good, that was good.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:I did not think about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, great people. Um, so last question I got for you where do you see the role of forgiveness either self-forgiveness or forgiving others in trauma and or addiction?
Speaker 2:and or addiction. I think there are two types of people. I've noticed it, you know, whenever I was at that rehab, because that's whenever they were first coming in and they were first really really dealing with some of the most. I mean, they're coming straight off the street, straight from prison. Prison is its own world, but you know, they're coming in and there's a lot to process. Some of them really, which is like me, this is kind of like the first type of person.
Speaker 2:I really struggled with forgiving myself. I can forgive others easily and I've been taken advantage of for that and I'm like I have people pleasing tendencies. However, I struggled with forgiving self. But then there's other people, like my husband, who hold grudges and they really struggle with forgiving other people. So there's like there's two different types. It just really depends and it doesn't matter the level. I mean, I've seen severe levels of uh, like ptsd and cptsd, where they still struggle with forgiving themselves and they don't even care about those other people. You know it's forgiving themselves. And then again there's some people who they, they don't have a problem forgiving themselves. They have a problem, they can do that, that's fine. But trying to forgive other people and what they've done to them is. Is is also really really difficult too. So two different things.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Yeah, I could definitely see see that, so we're wrapping up. I wanted to give you the floor to close out. What is the biggest takeaway for the listeners today?
Speaker 2:so I feel like we um talked on, or we touched on, a bunch of trauma and then addiction. I feel like a big core of it was the addiction aspect and how you know there's family members and loved ones of addicts who really struggle with watching them go through it. That's what's biggest in my mind right now, anyway, from what I'm, as I'm looking back, and I just would love to let them know once again that there is nothing wrong with the way that they did anything. They didn't do anything wrong to them to cause them to be this way and then to try love them from afar but also accept that there's nothing they can do. And then there's also we talked about the relationship thing too, and I feel like I made, um, my relationship beautiful, um, but we have worked really hard to get to this point. So as long as both parties are willing to really work on it and stick together and you love each other and there's that beautiful friendship there, then keep trying and I think that's it.
Speaker 1:Perfect. Well, Mariah, thank you for coming out. I hope you had a good time.
Speaker 2:Yes, I really enjoyed it, thank you, I'm so honored.
Speaker 1:So I'd encourage the listeners out there share your thoughts and questions on social media. I got the Facebook page. There's a Buzzsprout for audio, YouTube and TikTok for videos. I love you all, See ya.
