MindForce: Mental Fitness & Life Stories!
Join Nate on MindForce, a podcast exploring the intersection of love, life, and learning. Through authentic conversations and personal stories, we dive into the complexities of mental fitness, self-care, and personal growth. With a focus on empathy, resilience, and inspiration, MindForce is a safe space for listeners to reflect, learn, and connect with others. Tune in for thought-provoking discussions, heartfelt stories, and practical insights to help you navigate life's challenges and cultivate a stronger, wiser you!
*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individual(s) involved and do not reflect the official policy or position of the United States Air Force, the Department of Defense, or any other agency of the United States Government. *
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MindForce: Mental Fitness & Life Stories!
Redefining Balance: Seat 41A on Work-Life Myths, Mental Fitness, and Battling Imposter Syndrome
What if achieving the perfect work-life balance is just a myth? Join us as we challenge conventional wisdom and propose the idea of a "work-life average," where flexibility and communication take center stage. Dive into our lively debate on the self-help industry, where Chris questions its repetitive nature while Greg argues for the diversity of perspectives. We also share our personal journeys, from navigating relocations to reintegrating post-deployment, adding a relatable touch to our broader exploration of life's unpredictable challenges.
Imagine forming your own advisory council featuring legends like Kobe Bryant and Gandhi. Our discussion ventures into the significance of drawing wisdom from both historical and fictional figures to guide us in motivation, finances, and more. We also discuss the power of strong social connections in strengthening mental wellness, focusing on how nurturing relationships in our fast-paced digital age can be a challenge, yet immensely rewarding. This episode offers practical insights on maintaining mental fitness, highlighting the benefits of physical activity and mindful reflection.
Finally, we take a hard look at the pressures faced by IT professionals and the widespread presence of imposter syndrome. By fostering supportive environments that encourage collaboration and open communication, we aim to combat these issues. Listen in as we tackle the stigma surrounding mental health, emphasizing the need for expanded resources and more open conversations. This episode is packed with strategies for personal growth, mental resilience, and the profound impact of human connection.
Okay, I'll start it. That's not the way I thought this was going to go, but, howdy, I'm your host, nate Shearer, and welcome to the show. This is Mindforce, the podcast for love, life and learning where your mind matters. Today I have Seat 41, alpha. The whole trio, chuck Taylor, is back from deployment. Manoj has moved. There's a lot of things going on, but we're hanging out. We're doing some fun things, so let's introduce the guests around the horn. We'll start with Christopher.
Speaker 2:Tell us who you are what you're up to and why you're here. I'm Chris, one of the co-hosts for the Seat 41A podcast. I'm not really up to much getting ready for a PCS coming up playing a lot of golf. Uh, I'm here just to have some fun and enjoy the conversation perfect greg everybody, I'm greg, also known as chuck.
Speaker 3:I am still trying to reacclimate myself to my original life, which continues to be strange, and I've been back for about three weeks, although one of those weeks didn't really count because I went TDY before I even checked back in from deployment. That was a bit strange, a bit unorthodox, but it was for a good cause. So, yeah, excited to be back in the same time zone as the rest of my mates here and um, ready to get after it, although, nate, you went, uh, the opposite direction while I sure did, I was over in the middle east and and now in the uk at uh, our old stomping grounds, the lake and heath mildenhall area, which I know we all miss a lot.
Speaker 1:Oh Bridge Farm, Close Manoj. What are you up to?
Speaker 4:Reba? I think no. I'm currently doing an affidavit at Syracuse University and what I'm up to is homework, which is something I definitely did not miss, especially two versions of accounting, and I've never taken an accounting class in my life, so taking a grad-level accounting class has been fun, but not really. Yeah, just ready to have a great conversation with y'all.
Speaker 1:How are things going with the orchestra?
Speaker 4:Ah. So something I have to dip out later for is I'm volunteering with the Syracuse Orchestra and the Syracuse Youth Orchestra. Sadly I'm not playing this time around. I would love to be playing with them, but I'm just going to be scanning tickets as people walk in today. But hopefully that's just my. This is my first gig with them, so hopefully I get my foot in the door and I can keep volunteering with them, because I do have a volunteer requirement for this program, interestingly enough. But I honestly would have done this even if it wasn't for the volunteer hours. I just enjoy local worker shows. They're a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Awesome Good stuff. We're going to move into the warm-up with the unpopular opinion. So the first one is there's a booming industry around self-help and personal development. What's your unpopular opinion on the effectiveness of popular self-help advice or trends? Are there aspects you believe are completely overrated or potentially counterproductive?
Speaker 2:I'll take the first hack at this one. It's a really good question. I think there's a lot of stuff out there that just repeats things over and over. It just seems like you get maybe a slightly different flavor of stuff that's out there. So it's really hard to kind of filter out some of the noise and like how are you supposed to?
Speaker 2:You know, a book can get a lot of marketing right and then you wind up reading it and then it really just like doesn't live up to and I think we've had a couple of those books that we've read or featured on our podcast it just doesn't live up to the hype or it's reframing some things that you hear quite a bit. But there is some really good stuff in the self-help arena, but it feels like lately the majority of the stuff and maybe that's just because you know, as you, as you read so much of it it just all kind of starts to sound very similar I think one thing that's really interesting is we want to make cookie cutter approaches for so many things, and humans are so complex.
Speaker 1:We are just, you know, vastly complex and difficult and we have highs and lows and things like that, and so I think we want these you know roadmaps to go A, b, c and you know, if you follow this checklist especially us being in the Air Force and we do, like you know, the pilots and things like that like checklists, and I think even the civilian world wants to move through these things, like if you do these things, you'll have a good organization, and it's just not the way it is. There has to be more approaches to things, and I think that's too difficult to put in a book. You can't have this scattered roadmap of different approaches. But yeah, greg, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 4:I was. I was gonna agree with chris, but I haven't done a counterpoint to that. So you said, like you know, they're kind of the same thing being said in different ways. But my counterpoint to that sometimes I will, uh, gather that information a little better from one person than than another person trying to reiterate the same thing. Their approach might not be the right way if they're just I mean, this is an extreme example, but if they're yelling at me trying to motivate me, okay, yeah, not the right way. But then if you talk to me like Simon Sinek, okay, I'm going to understand it better that way. So the same information, two different approaches.
Speaker 4:I think that might be a way to reach people that might. Like you said, humans are very complex. We can't have that one roadmap, so we might need to hear the same thing in 20 different ways from 20 different people and maybe one or two people will hear what's supposed to be heard and change their ways to for the better. So I almost like I kind of like it where we're getting repetitive, because even also half these self-help things, you know, practice makes perfect. So if I hear a bunch of times that I get reminded to keep doing that and just instead of hearing it one time from one person and go forth and do it for the rest of my life. I hear it multiple times throughout my life, throughout the year. Maybe it'll stick a little better.
Speaker 3:So makes sense that was, uh, you know, minoja's response there, I think, is what I was largely going to go with. So, since this is unpopular opinion, my unpopular opinion with it is is I think that the entire self-help industry is a net positive, and my reason for that thinking kind of hits at what Manoj said and what you said, nate. It's widely varied in how we, the lens with which we look at the world, our lived experiences, things like that, and different people's messages hit differently, even if they're saying largely the same thing Is a lot of what's in the self-help book, repackaged material, yep, I don't think that that matters as much. Uh, I don't. I think one who sees that the those offerings that way should instead go into looking at the self-help section less as like, hey, am I going to learn something new and maybe am I going to see something that I already know about, but in a different light. I think you might come into it with a more positive or optimistic interaction than in that material.
Speaker 3:A lot of people sell those self-help things as like, hey, this is what worked for me, or this is how I frame our you know communication, like some sort of communication framework for talking with people you know like, well, you have like executive conversation and you have limbic conversation and whatever other like random apply. A thing you know like everyone's either a captain or a seaman in the ship and you know you have to be able to talk to both or whatever. Whatever the analogy is there, I don't know, chris, did that last bit resonate with you at all, or yeah, we're going with no, okay, I'll keep I'll keep working.
Speaker 2:I'll keep working on him, perhaps uh, if I can work in the word commodore in some sort of natural context.
Speaker 3:Maybe that'll, that'll.
Speaker 1:I think it goes to the other side too as well, though, like I was talking about the different people being complex and things like that, but as the leader or the person that's delivering, um, the self-help advice, I think we all deliver things differently.
Speaker 1:So even though it worked for that one person, so kind of going exactly what you were talking about, if I deliver something, you and you deliver something could be exactly the same thing from the exact same book, but it's not going to hit the same. We're completely different. You know, and our delivery and how that works. You know, like we talk about communication and tone of voice and things like that. You can say the exact same words, right, but the tone of voice that comes through. So that is probably, you know, a net positive. I think I'd have to agree with you because you know you try different things and you see how they work, but you know you could do the exact same thing as someone else and it's going to come out different. So I think that plays even more into the humans being just very complex.
Speaker 4:It's that old man wisdom voice Like it really just hits differently, like you know. That's the truth. That's not even a joke, that's the truth. That's not even a joke, that's the truth.
Speaker 1:So the next question I have for you guys the concept of work-life balance is often portrayed as a universal goal. Everybody wants this work-life balance. What's your unpopular opinion on work-life balance? Is it an achievable goal, is this ideal for everyone, or do you believe it's time to rethink this narrative?
Speaker 2:so I'm going to go again. First. Looks like greg and minosa are on the fence for answering this one. Um, yeah, this one's, this one's kind of tough for me, to be honest, because I'm kind of on the fence when it comes to work-life balance, because there are some days where I think I really believe that a work-life balance is achievable as long as you are deliberate and disciplined about keeping that and maintaining those boundaries, because that's really kind of what it comes down to keeping that and maintaining those boundaries, because that's really kind of what it comes down to.
Speaker 2:And that can be really difficult, especially when you know those times of the year where we have a lot of stuff coming at us and I'll just, you know, think of that purely from our career field, you know specifically. You know you have demands that are just coming at us regularly. You know deadlines seem to loom and kind of all crash together, and during those times it's really difficult to get that work-life balance. And even if you're, you know, like me, where I'm intentional and deliberate about, hey, it's 4.30, I'm turning this off, it doesn't matter Like we'll get to this again tomorrow or Monday, it can be difficult to turn that off though, even in like after hours, right, because you're still kind of thinking about some of those things that you have to do, um, so I I think it is achievable in that sense, but I also think it is not achievable sometimes in the just in the type of work that we do, and there are some things we just can't say no to.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, things come down that have to be done that conflict right. Maybe I get a tasker from DHA, or something happens from you know that can it happens to come in at the same time as a tasker from the group or the wing, and those two things, just, you know, know, butt up against each other, and we're required to put some things aside or maybe work some extra hours. I will say, though, that it does feel like at least leadership at the local level understands that, and maybe I've been super fortunate that, whenever we communicate that to them like hey, hey, you know, I've got these two things, I also have this personal thing that I have to do, like I can't get to this until tomorrow, and it's like, hey, yep, totally understand, get it to me first thing, or get it to me by this time, no later than this time on the next day, and it's so. So I think there is room for it as long as you're kind of communicating that, but it certainly can feel overwhelming.
Speaker 1:I hope that makes sense I think the biggest challenge I have with it is the terminology, and maybe it's nuances, and maybe I shouldn't think about it too much. But I think words matter right, and I think balance is one of those things that always frustrates me, because I always think of lady justice or you know whatever, and those scales that are tipping and they're supposed to balance out. So the term was integration or, you know, fill in some other verb or whatever fits right there, but balance just never seems to make sense to me. I think that, like you said, we should be able to go and run an errand on a slower day and then stay later on the day that we need to, but I don't know if I'd consider that balance as much integration.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was going to say something similar. Let's put it this way I don't think work-life balance is ever achievable period. Because of the word balance though, like you said, I think it may be probably a better, sophisticated word but maybe average work-life average. Because at the end of the day, you're never going to have like, oh perfect, eight hour life day and eight hour work day. It's never going to happen. You're going to have those days where you can go home early, even pick up the kids early from school or something, or there's going to be days you're going to stay till six. It's never possible to do both exactly.
Speaker 4:Let's just think, let's make it simple 100 days straight, it's never going to happen you having those perfect days. You're going to go way sometimes. You're gonna go that way sometimes and law of averages, as it happens throughout your entire career or life, or day, or week or month, it's just gonna sit here as the average. So it's like a work, like a work life average. I know it doesn't roll off the tongue as easily, but I think that's the way I see it. There's just some days it's not going to be there for you and someday, and then it's also your priorities where do you? What do you want your priorities that week or that day to be? They need to be at work, they need to be at work and that need to be at home. They need to be at home. That's just the way it is. So balance on a singular level is definitely difficult.
Speaker 1:But if I think average throughout the whole assignment that I'm at, then that I think that's more achievable I think it's one of those things you have to look at perspective, perspective and you know, maybe it's trying to justify it or whatnot, but I try to think of, like, the flight line or something like that. Some of those people are sitting on the flight line for like 12 hours and they're not able to break away and run an errand or pick the kids up early. They're, you know, held to, you know a much stricter schedule. So even when we do stay late or do some of those smaller things, like I try to think of what that would be like for security forces or things like that. Maybe that is just justifying it, but I think the ability to go and run errands and things during the day almost I hate to go back to you know the scale, but almost weighs it out. What do you think, chuck?
Speaker 3:okay, there we go, all right. So I'm glad you all went first, so I can just pick it the things that you said, instead of forming my own opinion just kidding I do have an opinion, all right.
Speaker 3:So, obviously, work-life balance that phrase has been talked about for a long time and I've had many people bring it up to me at one point in time or another and my response of late with that question, usually I turn it right around into another question as like well, what's your goal that you're trying to achieve when you're talking, when you're using the phrase work-life balance? Is it because you don't feel like you're spending enough time on things that matter, or that you don't have the freedom of choice, like your example, nate, about the you know generic flight line worker who's unable to just pop over to Starbucks and recaffeinate as needed, like some of us in the hospital? Then how I talk about the idea of work-life balance really just work off of what their operating definition or what their goal is that they're really looking for. So how I see it is that work-life balance is really an attempt to impose value-based decision-making in your life. Value-based decision-making in your life, and I lean on a lot of my advice and a lot of my practice of what I do on the book First Things First by Stephen Covey, which really just comes down to, you know, trying to spend time studying like what is it that you value? What is important to you in your life? A corollary question might be mission first, people, always. How do you reconcile that? Because you can't. They're, at times, opposed to each other, right, and so you can't do both. So which one do you do? Well, depends, is, of course, the answer to that question.
Speaker 3:But when it comes to things that throw what feels like work-life balance out of kilter, is when you're either choosing or you're unable to choose and more forced to do things that don't align properly with your values. Work-life balance is. I want to suggest to them hey, take a few steps back and really think about you know. What is it that you want to do with your life? What are the actions that you can complete that will mean something to you and then build up from there in? How can I make sure that I'm making those deliberate decisions and those deliberate actions part of my everyday experience, so that I'm getting fulfillment from the things that I do? Am I going to get fulfillment from everything that I do? No, you know me. I fill my cup by submitting demmer's eye time cards and by critiquing the time allocations of the people in my flight.
Speaker 2:Thank you and that's all the time we have today excuse me, excuse me, I have the floor.
Speaker 3:I have the floor. Um, anyway, the you're not going to everything you do isn't going to fill your cup, so to speak. But the times when the actions that you take and the achievements that you are able to you know, you know, it's the word I'm looking for accumulate these achievements and there are things that align with your values, right, it helps you to put up with the BS that detracts from that work-life balance. So that's where I lean, at least as my starting frame point when we talk about is work-life balance achievable? Well, do you know what your values are? Because I would say if you don't know what your values are, then no, work-life balance is not achievable because you have no idea. If what you're doing is porting or detracting from that balance, all right, I yield the rest of my time that makes sense.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. I just saw on somewhere someone was asking um if they should join the medical service corps as a single parent and someone had jumped on there and said it was extremely difficult and, uh, just made me think of this situation where I think it's all about what you want out of it. I think that's kind of the core of what you were saying, greg. I've seen some people 730 to 430 and maintain pretty strong to that. They have their goals and you know the things they want to do, which is to take care of the kids and do certain things, and that's core to their being. And other people that you know work six to six. So it's really a wide range. It's just what you're trying to achieve and what you're trying to get after. Is work more important or things like that? So, yeah, that's. I think that's a good point. If you don't know what you're going after, how are you trying to achieve it?
Speaker 2:So, greg, uh, oh, I was just going to say Greg had me right up until he said to him I was, I was following right along. Just awful, lost, lost. I think he's going to lose a lot of people, oh.
Speaker 3:I'm I'm glad that we can celebrate our differences.
Speaker 1:I think that's important. It's uh, they say it's for manpower, yet I've been in multiple other career fields that have Manning and somehow people keep showing up without time cards, so that's kind of interesting.
Speaker 4:Go figure.
Speaker 1:But anyway, greg, over to you. So at this point I've never had three people on the show, so I have no idea how this is going to work.
Speaker 3:but one question for me all right, it's a bit nonsensical, but that's kind of part of my um, part of my brand. I guess, if you were going to be reborn but you only could have An arm and two legs, or two arms and one leg, which would you choose? And as a as a Footnote To that question, you cannot Operate on the assumption that when, at the time when you're reborn, any sort of advanced prosthetics or robotics are going to exist. Maybe they will, but maybe they won't. You don't know, you don't know what when, on the timeline, you will be born. So you know, if you're going with a, I'll just pick one leg because I'm going to get one of those cool blade runner legs and then I can actually compete in the Olympics with that. You can't reside on or you can't. You're not going to be reborn necessarily in the current time that you're in now.
Speaker 1:OK, over to you. Ok, I would definitely go with two legs and one hand. It would make things more challenging opening jars and doing some of those things, but I think the ability to move around and be able to take care of myself would outweigh the minor inconveniences with the one arm. I think having to rely like you said I'm not sure what, given time this takes place, I'm going to rely, like you said, I'm not sure at what, given time this takes place, I'm going to rely on other people. At some points of time in the past people were not very kind, didn't take care of each other very well, so I at least be able to get around and get to the market or do something.
Speaker 2:So I'm definitely going with two legs, christopher. What's your question, christopher? What's your question? Um, so, if you could, if you could create a council like an advisory council for yourself. So, whenever you have, it doesn't matter, you know, work decisions, life decisions, um, but you could call on these five people at any point. Who would those five people be? And they can be alive, dead, it could be anybody. You can have anybody on on your council any five people ever.
Speaker 1:Oh, shoot um, I do not know. Let me minoj.
Speaker 4:What's your question mine's not terribly far off, but it is a little different, so mine was gonna be. If you could pick one fictional character to mentor you in leadership, who would it be?
Speaker 1:fictional character. Okay dang, I'm stuck between both of these. I don't read enough, um, I think, for the five movies.
Speaker 2:I suppose we could amend my question. You could add fictional characters to yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, fictional, okay, I'll think of another one. Just add that to Chris's. Yeah, okay, I think you got to go somehow get well-rounded right. So you got to have, like finances. You got to have, you know, good political good, oh, shoot, I'm going to go with Kobe Bryant for the drive and determination to do anything, cause that dude was an absolute beast. Um, I'm going to end up doing all sports, which is not what I want to do, cause I was going to say tiger, uh, I think just another. Like motivation and drive to be able to get things done, because I think drive and motivation will get through a lot of different stuff. I mean it would be nice Warren Buffett will take him for financial. So that's three. I need more. Like wise of the world Gandhi, go with him. And, oh geez, wise of the world Gandhi, go with him.
Speaker 1:And oh jeez, jesus Christ there's the five living the best life right there, jesus, oh for yours no, you said oh, jesus Christ, that's my five. Jesus Christ, there you go. That's the five right best life. I'm going with that. That's uh. Determination, willpower, a little bit of finances, being nice to other people and leading a wholesome and holy life.
Speaker 2:Boom, it's a great council it really is and that's the. That's the fun thing about about this and I forgot where I heard about this idea before, about like keep an advisory council right and so we can kind of learn from some of those folks, but through books and historical documents, and you can draw from those lessons and you can like add and remove from your council as, as you know, the seasons of your life come and go.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to write those down, let you know as they shift. Manoj, what do you got?
Speaker 4:Okay, I'll ask the first one, and if you want to skip it, there's a second one. First one is what is a common leadership rule or common thing leaders are supposed to do, that you love to break what?
Speaker 1:Love to break. And what love to break, um, I don't know, that's a tough one. Um, I think as a whole I like to challenge authority, which is probably something I'm not supposed to say out loud, but that's always just been kind of how I've driven. If something is difficult or dumb, like, I have to kind of go against it, and I think that plays well into what we do, being problem solvers and making things better throughout the clinics and things like that. So I hope you know, not bucking the system just to buck it, but at least pausing to stop and reflect and like does that actually make sense? Is that the best course of action? Like? One example I'll use is I love stories.
Speaker 1:One of my MDSS commanders went over to the MPF and she was trying to check in at the kiosk and the kiosk wasn't working to get checked in for her cat card or whatever a service it was at the mpf and the airman came over and said oh, it never works. If it never works, let's figure out like then sign in on paper or get rid of the kiosk or, you know, work through that thing. It's kind of comical that the automatic response is like oh, it never works, and why are we still doing it like if the thing doesn't connect to the internet or whatever? The particular problem is like let's where's the where's the applause?
Speaker 2:track he's throwing it right now sorry, I'm over here dying because I can't tell you. How many times you like you we'll go to a section and like, hey, what, what is this like? Oh, I don't know, that's just this thing. That's this computer that's been there. It's never worked and we you never thought to put a ticket in to have it fixed, like we never thought to like bring this up, like what was the original function of this, this device? Like yeah, it's crazy how often we do that that is wild.
Speaker 1:well, thank you the questions I've never taken three at once. Hopefully that was pretty good. We'll shift over to mental fitness and core of this podcast. I'd love to ask you guys in the realm of mental fitness what are the key factors that contribute to a person's overall well-being?
Speaker 2:Work-life balance. Sorry, dang you. You took my yes I. I was almost certain greg was gonna jump on that one, but okay, that was not my answer. By the way, I was just trying to be. His button is stuck, yeah I was.
Speaker 3:I was just, I was pondering the question, so I'd like a two-part answer, if that's possible.
Speaker 1:One, your personal feeling, and then all of us have led flights. What have you heard or you know, airmen have said is the core to their mental fitness. So both you and the members of your flights, or maybe it's the same.
Speaker 2:So for me personally, it's really about having deliberate time for activities that recharge my batteries, so doing things that you know. For me what that can be is usually it's either reading having that one hour in the morning I try to get up super early and read a book, sometimes when that's not working for me, then it's usually working out and then obviously playing golf is like the number one thing, like just being outside, no technology around me.
Speaker 4:You need mental fitness just to play golf okay, that's all. You need mental fitness just to play golf okay, that's all.
Speaker 2:You really do, but there is an aspect of resiliency to it because I don't know, I really feel like the game itself is just so representative of life in general. So I feel like that kind of helps me build some mental resiliency as well, as far as like within the work center and what I've heard people, I feel like it's pretty similar, and I feel like people usually say that you know that just having a good support system or activities outside of work that really fill their cup is what's important. I think just I really do think like your mental wellness, though, is really it's going to be much stronger the stronger your social connections are uh and that's hard for me to say as an introvert, but it's true like having those people that you can really rely on, but then also making sure that you're taking care of yourself first, because if you don't take care of yourself, you're of no use to anybody else.
Speaker 3:Great. I'll jump in with another one. I'm trying to think exactly how to put this up in there. But one of the keys for me is I need to maintain some level of emotional investment in the people around me, because I think, in a lot of ways, the digital world and the anonymity of a global information space right, encourages us to, uh, maybe lose a little bit of our humanity. And an example of that might be something that you hear often, where you know the people act, they, in a way incongruous to incongruous to their personality online, you know they're, they act one way online, but then in person you know, oh, they're the sweetest thing, but then they can spew like some really nasty stuff online or maybe cyber bully or whatever, right and um anyway.
Speaker 3:So it's a difficult world, and one of the ways that I try to fight against those, uh, those challenges is by, you know, being willing to be vulnerable a bit with other people, by emotionally investing in that relationship and knowing that you're not going you know I'm not going to get hurt, emotionally speaking, by somebody if I don't care for them in one way, shape or form at all. You know, if I'm completely apathetic to their existence, right, they can't hurt me, and so it's a way to like kind of stay safe, but it's also a way to not experience anything of of value, or, you know, like the richness of human interaction, and so I've forced myself to, you know, care about other people, even if it's maybe not necessarily something that I want to do, because I believe that that investment it will pay off in, you know, rich human connection over time, and that is an experience that, you know, from a mental fitness standpoint, is important. The less isolating my behavior, the better it is for me. Then to the second part. The.
Speaker 3:This is uh, you know, I I think the thing that I would say is it's just a little bit different than what's been said thus far is about. I don't think that we remember the work you know, over time, uh, you know, achieving you% on a blah blah blah inspection or whatever, right, but we remember, like, the team that we worked with and how they made us feel, and so just kind of along the lines of you know, making yourself emotionally vulnerable with other people around you is also cultivating and being part of a team that cares about one another, and being part of a team that cares about one another is something that you know can make an assignment.
Speaker 4:So those would be the things that I would add to that conversation so I was trying to think about it while Chris and Greg were answering, and I think the key word that you said is, you know, fitness. So and I'll preface this that I only had this epiphany about myself, like recently, like last 18 months or so, but I think of fitness, I'm thinking like I have to keep challenging it, like it's like working out. Working out, if you keep doing you know five-pound weights, like what are you really working? You have to like push and get harder and actually for lack of a better word or phrase suffer a little bit and get injured to actually get stronger. So when you think fitness, mental fitness I feel like I have to, subconsciously, I feel like I have to put myself through those tough situations in order to be have my mind be fitter for, uh, you know. So I don't think I purposely do it, but it only really, it only hit me recently that these tough situations that you come across at work, or even like now at school, here, like I don't know, maybe I'm unconsciously looking for them, or they're just being attracted to me, or I'm going out, you know, defining them because I want to put myself through that struggle a little bit so I can be a better person later and, down the road, be more fit mentally down the road.
Speaker 4:If I, if I don't put myself in those situations, I don't think I'm getting stronger mentally. So putting myself in a situation at the time really, really sucks. But I do have this lingering thought in the back of my head that's going this will somehow make me better later. I don't know how yet, I don't know why, but I know it will. Whether for the good or the bad, somehow it's going to make me better down down the line. So, like I said, I only realized this recently that I feel like these situations and maybe other mscs are going through this too, like me.
Speaker 4:I like solving problems, but then that that quote-unquote drama comes up or that situation comes up, or you're not getting your way or you gotta, you gotta do more dimmer's eye time cards. I don't know, it's just, it's just painful and you don't know why you're doing this, but for some reason I'm going through it now. I have to get through it now. Let me tough it out like a workout, get through it. I'll recover the next day or the next week and I'll only be stronger for it later. So that's kind of my thought.
Speaker 4:With mental fitness. I have to go through those tough situations in order for my mind to get stronger. And the second part, like I think my flight usually has their you know they have their, their, their things that they go to outside, outside of work, where a lot of people are working out. That was my last flight. A lot of people love going to the gym afterwards and de-stressing that way and becoming fit that way and recovering in that way. So and so much so that we were doing I won't say every day, but we were doing workouts within the flight during the day, like every hour someone roll a ball and be like all right time to do like 20 jumping jacks or 20, what do you call it Burpees or something like that, you know.
Speaker 4:So keeping it loose in the workplace definitely helped them stay fit, more or less, and not be as stressed out at work. So much so I. I got that feedback from my flight chief and I made sure to keep that going throughout the the tour that I had at altus specifically as the most recent one I can think of. So I ensured to keep going. So, even though that wasn't really for everybody, it worked for the majority of the flight and I did try to tailor things from time to time for the people that needed a different route to do something at work. So, yeah, that's pretty much how I handled it.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's perfect. I mean, that was really why I put, you know, mental fitness in the title and in the description, is it's that ongoing thing and we're constantly trying to work on it, and so it's so odd to me, you know, the term mental health seems like it's a building, it's a person, it's a thing you go to when you're at your lowest. That's not what we're looking for. We're looking for ongoing, challenging that. Yeah, that answer is awesome. Thank you, manoj. That's lowest, that's that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for ongoing, challenging that. Uh, yeah, that answer is is awesome. Thank you, minoge. That's, that's good stuff. Mental fitness, it's always going.
Speaker 2:How, how would you, how would you respond to those two questions?
Speaker 1:for myself and for the flight. I think for myself it's to try to slow down. I definitely don't get up early enough to read for an hour that I probably should. I have been going to the human performance section because we have the personal trainer. I'm not going to have that for very long, just in this cool opportunity for the soft community. So I've been trying to go and do that at seven every morning and get that workout in and start that day. But that's something I mean, I guess, to hate to repeat, but getting up and, you know, getting the sun in my eyes and working out in the morning, I think is really pivotal.
Speaker 1:I've tried to do afternoon workouts and things like that. I have to get up and get going and I think I have too much energy most of the time. So I have to get up and get going. I think that really is a good way. But one thing I have done is I have the Daily Stoic and some of the other books that are kind of like those devotionals where it's broken out by day, and so when I get into the office I try to put my cat card in and let the thing boot through its system and let the emails, load and read a page and kind of take that moment to pause for a second. There's just so much in the world that is faster, faster. We got, you know, fast food. You drive to the window, you're getting a meal in a matter of minutes and you can Google any answer in the world in a matter of seconds. We've gotten faster and faster with everything, which I think in a lot of aspects is good, but I think that there's a lot of times we need to slow down.
Speaker 1:One thing I try to do I don't do it every week. I probably should hold myself to a better standard but something I saw a previous shirt do is he would print off his calendar at the end of the week and then he would sit down and take notes and say like, did I accomplish all the things I wanted to accomplish? And not just that, because I think that's pretty basic. But the final thing he did was why not? Did I run out of time? Was there a roadblock? Did someone not help me with what I needed? Like what was the reason? And then he'd make a note for the next week because, oh, I need to elevate that. That's why it didn't go. I ran out of time. I need to prioritize and make more time for that. So that last step of why not is super important. So I try to do that close the week out.
Speaker 1:I have an overactive mind, I think, as probably all of us do, so being able to sleep and process things. I need to close down the day and the week and that really helps me, you know, get to sleep. And there's still sometimes I'm pondering about the flight, or you know, not that I have one currently, but the people and the things. I can try to take care of them. But I think closing things up like that is really helpful, just taking a moment to slow down. And the second part, I don't know. I kind of struggle with that. That's kind of why I asked you guys because I've had flights that they want more morale. That's like the term they throw around a lot and I just don't know what that is.
Speaker 1:I've done free events on behalf of the True North team. They paid for like this giant arcade thing that was all maxed out in Okinawa. It's like nine stories tall and there's like everything from, you know, batting cages to arcade, to reading mag, uh, maga, no manga, geez, wow, I clearly don't read comics and things like that and relaxing chairs, and so it's this whole building full of things where, if you can't find something to do in this building, like I don't know what you do because there's all those different floors and like half the people didn't show up even though it was free and all those things. So I struggle sometimes. I know people want time off and things like that, but I think, with the four days and well, I'm not in DHA right now but won't go that route um, but yeah, it's, it's difficult. I don't know. I think that goes back to the very beginning of what we were talking about is everyone's different. Like some people want time off, some people want public praise, some people want it in private, and so it's tough. I don't. I don't know what the perfect answer is to take care of them.
Speaker 1:I hope you know I try to bring up some of the negative things I've been through in my life to try to bridge the gap, and so I hope that you know the ability to reach out, because one thing that always bugs me is like the open door policy. We hear it all the time and I've had commanders that I wouldn't go in and talk to and not like anything against them in any way. I just never felt like the connection where I could open up and talk about these things that weren't going very well, and so I hope me bringing up some of the things that I've been through will bridge that gap. There has to be structure, you know, chain of command, there has to be respect and things like that, but ultimately we're all human.
Speaker 1:So I hope when I say like you can swing by any time, I literally mean like you know, any time, because I've been through some things and been at some low points where I didn't know who to call and you know I felt like if I did call anybody I'd be bugging them, and so I remember that feeling and I'll remember that feeling for the rest of my life. So I don't want anybody to ever like be holding the phone in their hand Like who do I call? Like, just call me, I'll sit here, we'll listen. I don't have to fix it if you don't want me to fix it, but I'll. I'll be there.
Speaker 2:That was way longer than you wanted, no it was really good, and there's one point that I kind of wanted to touch on, because it's something that I think I've observed in some of my assignments as well, and that was you know you're talking, you talked about having you know the free activities for folks, and I'm assuming it was on the installation.
Speaker 1:And I was down the road so I guess maybe the barrier was getting there, maybe. But I mean we tried to facilitate as much as possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, even I'm just trying to, like you know, visualize it a little bit, but it feels like and maybe this is going back to some of Greg's point as well it feels like a lot of activities people are more reluctant to participate in them, especially this stuff, maybe after hours. You know, the wing here does a first Friday event and it seems like participation has just dwindled. I mean, it wasn't really like super strong. It kind of comes in waves, but it seems like I don't know if it's just my interpretation, or it seems like because of the digital age, now people are less, I don't want to say willing, but it seems like they're less. They don't want to spend as much time with the unit.
Speaker 2:And I understand there's family obligations and there's all sorts of other things that happen outside of that. But I don't know, I feel like a lot of like camaraderie, like you're saying, like how do you build morale? Like doing a lot of that stuff maybe not forcing it if it happened, if it's happening organically, that does kind of help build and raise morale a bit. You know people kind of fuss about wanting to do it like oh my gosh, a mandatory event, but they always seem to wind up having have fun while they're there, or you know, talking about, oh man, we had so much fun, oh, that was great, we should do that again. It's just like that initial, like getting them to that, uh.
Speaker 2:But I but I do wonder, like, how much the digital age has affected, you know, people wanting to socialize in in those ways. Um, or maybe that maybe it's just that there's so much more access to things out in town. You know, in some of the locations maybe not all of them, I know I see Manoj making faces at me here. Listen, I did my tour, okay, I was in Del Rio, okay.
Speaker 4:This is fair, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's crazy how times change too, because we were trying to find a game the other day on the Xbox or whatever it was, with me and my wife, and we were trying to find a game where we could play together, and all games, pretty much, are one player on the internet now like we used to sit on the couch was 64.
Speaker 1:All four of us were there, all you know, side by side. So even though we were immersed in a game and that part was fake and whatnot, like the realness, like we were sitting right next to each other and so that was kind of mind blowing, like we could not really find a game where we could sit and play together, we ended up, I think, getting need for speed and we switched turns driving the car. But yeah, that's interesting. I wonder how much that plays into that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'll put it in a little recommendation. I'm not sure if it's on Xbox or not, but a little recommendation. I'm not sure if it's on Xbox or not, but the Adventures of Sackboy is a great two-person game and it's like a cooperative thing. Sackboy, it's fun. I got it to play with the kids, you know, so that we could do something together. Okay, I'll jot that down. I played on the ps5, but it's uh anyway. So, uh, chris, I'd like to go back to your thought and, well, actually continuing the conversation, because everybody, I think, brought this up at one point in time or another.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying that this is the answer to your problem, but one way that I would like to encourage people to look at gee, how do I improve morale in the workplace? Improve morale in the workplace and address that conversation is to start with little things. I think I need to improve morale. Let's have a burger burn at 1400 on a Friday. Is there's too much of a disconnect between where we are currently, which is I don't enjoy being in the workplace more than it takes to earn my paycheck, and I want to socially engage with these same people that I work with in an optional environment where it's A not going to affect my paycheck. So I think we could take a lesson from you know something that Manoj does with the dad joke of the day. It's just, I don't think that you're going into that situation with a. I'm going to do a dad joke of the day to improve morale in my flight, maybe not necessarily in such a deliberate way If it was just like a. Hey, I just want to create a fun office environment that you know. Maybe some people chuckle or groan. Really, any reaction to a dad joke, regardless of what the reaction is, is a positive reaction. Um, it's. It's important to reference uh, to remember that. But the uh, but little things like that are a way again, uh, to start to build a foundation where you know people are interacting, or and uh.
Speaker 3:Another example might be like a question of the day or a debate of the day. You know, I've seen it with like the change my mind meme guy and you know so that there's a question or like a or a or a statement like that's actually where I pulled that. Would you rather have two arms and one leg or one arm and two legs? Question from was? It was a flight debate. It's upon a time of you know well which one's which one's better. You know there was another uh flight debate that I shared with chris and minoge about which way is the best way to make eggs. And you know it was just on a whiteboard and there was like scrambled hard-boiled, scrambled with cheese, fried eggs, over easy, so on and so forth all the different varieties of egg making and and it was just like a hey, you know your opinion out there. And then you know the people who felt strongly about it. You know, maybe wanted to debate with individuals a little bit, but those are just two small examples.
Speaker 3:Uh, not prescriptions like well, if you get a joke of the day book and a whiteboard where you write questions on it, that's going to fix morale. But I'll tell you what is. Um, you know those conversations allow us to learn about each other on a little bit deeper level than just the way that we work and the responsibilities that we have from like an office environment. And when we, when we have an, whether we recognize it consciously or not, to learn more about people, it enriches the relationship.
Speaker 3:Then you know somebody having the idea of hey, let's go to Finney Friday at the club If there's a group of people who have more than just work to talk about with each other because they've developed a richer relationship. That may sound like a more enticing proposition than hey, the wing commander will buy your first round if you go. Yeah, but it's with people I don't like and talking about things I don't want to talk about. Again, I'm projecting a lot onto those situations so I don't know that that's necessarily the case. But back to my main point and just summarize it in one sentence is try to find small ways to build or sustain those relationships and just focus on the small things and then the bigger things will come. You know, embrace that snowball effect and I think you'll see positive results. It just takes time and you have to be patient with it.
Speaker 1:But I haven't heard a lot of feedback.
Speaker 3:Sorry to cut you off, nate, I haven't heard a lot of feedback. You know, having worked with minoge and and you know, interacted with a lot of people who have worked with him and for him, right, I've never heard anyone say that you know that he doesn't build a good team or that you know like, oh well, this is, that's a negative or a or a an unhelpful workplace. It's always positive and, um, you know, embracing of each other, and that's something that I really aspire to be more like minoche in that way that's good stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe the bridge is too far. That's a good note. Small changes, james clear. I think you guys did the book on atomic habits, so yeah, those small things really add up. That's a good good note. Um, I wanted to ask a question to minoge. He's down to 16 minutes so let's see if we can get his thoughts before he has to go. You guys are all from completely different ways of life. I think we have a readiness person health plans in IT, is that right? I don't know what Minoge is. Are you health plan?
Speaker 4:Well, I guess I'm specializing in RMO now, but yeah, before this.
Speaker 1:Oh, now, okay. So in this wide range of people in your respective areas of expertise, what do you think the most common misconception about mental health is and how do we combat that? Starting with Manoj, the biggest misconception with mental fitness.
Speaker 4:I mean I hate to just echo what you said. I want my own answer, but I still like what you said. It's like you said, like something about you know, mental health seems to be the. It's like where you go when everything has just gone wrong and I don't. And it's framed like that and has that stigma still, whether we're I know, we're trying to get rid of that stigma, I totally understand that. I hope it does go away eventually. But like it shouldn't be, oh, when everything has just gone wrong, it should just be kind of that daily thing we do.
Speaker 4:I won't say as common as breathing, but it just needs to be that, it needs to be as common. I mean, like if I come off as someone who you know feels like I got my mental fitness done, I'm strong up there, I've been put through situations and I've come out on top, like no, that's not always the facts. Like I've gone to I've gone to BHOP many times and talked to them because I just had to get stuff off my chest, I needed some direction and it's helped. So it's not like there's a if you ask for help, you're now weak. You know, I hate that. Like. I mean, I love always asking help. And then I love it when people ask me for help. I mean it's just a normal thing we should be doing, I feel like just on an everyday basis. Like it shouldn't become off as, oh I'm dumb now I don't know the answer, like I need to now ask for help and it's going to make me look weak and stupid. I won't get the strat now or something like that. Like I'm going to ask for help whenever I need it. So, and it's just a common thing. I think we all could use it once in a while and even if it's just confirming what we may already know or not know, just ask like it's.
Speaker 4:I don't think it should be taken as now, oh I'm smarter than the person because I knew that answer and they didn't.
Speaker 4:So, like I think, like just that that aspect of it, of kind of getting out of our own head is is a big step that I feel like for me I needed to take to make sure I had that strong mental fitness, you know so, um, but you know, having, like I said before, just having those experiences that get me there, it's not like I had this epiphany when I was like 20 and I'm good to go. It's just it's come with experience both previously before and personal life before getting in the air force, and it's even been tested way more since joining the air force. You know, and I don't think I would have gotten this experience in the previous job that I had before joining, like I think I'd be I won't say coasting, but I don't think I'd be put in the same situations I've been put in now in this job. So having been through that has just absolutely made me stronger and I can't thank anyone else for that.
Speaker 1:Like it's this, it's been a huge day for me yeah, I hope, as we keep using that term, it'll just be more and more normal, because I always think it's funny and I try to use the, the analogy or the picture of like can you imagine you just like jump on the treadmill one time and you run real fast Like I'm done?
Speaker 4:That's it.
Speaker 1:Like I never have to work out again.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Like oh, and it's just related over like yeah, yeah, like uh, and it's, you know, we just relate it over. And it got me thinking a little bit the other day when I was like, you know, we, it's. It is become more and more common to kind of open up about mental health, which has been awesome, but on the downside, there's been like less and less availability for those appointments now and it's like, oh man, we, we went a little too far. Now we got to make sure our workforce in that area is definitely there, because I know a lot of people are struggling to get those appointments and stuff.
Speaker 4:I hope you talk about that balance thing. I hope it balances the other way eventually too. So we have a resource. I know resources are always coming up each and every day new ones, telehealth and you just pick up an app now and put in a question and you have someone reaching back out to you, which is pretty awesome. Making it as common as possible is a huge way forward and that's it okay is that a question just for minosh, or are we all going?
Speaker 3:are we taking turns?
Speaker 3:oh, everybody sorry no, you're good, all right on the readiness side, uh, I'll approach it from a medical planner standpoint. I think one misconception in the community or not necessarily within the medical readiness, medical planning community, but just the world that we work in is that clinical mental health is the only measure of effectiveness or measure of performance that matters for, like deployed mental health, behavioral health resources, well, well, we were sending a social worker and a psychologist to a deployed location, but they only saw seven clinical visits. So we're not getting our value out of that deployment, so we're going to cut it for future rotations. As an example is like that's a, that's a misconception narrative. I think, um, you know there's so much that can be done and and you know, I know she hit on it uh, you know several of the options. There's so much that can be done prior to, you know, a clinical and outpatient mental health visit to. You know, put things in the bud, so to speak, or move to the left of the bang. You know, depending on pick your analogy right, you know, to get ahead of a problem before it becomes a clinical problem. And there's also an incentive for the member right who's seeking help to seek that help early. And because it changes, like the documentation requirements and it. You know, there there's there's a stigma but there's also real effects on you know, like if you have a clearance or if you have you're in a special program, like like a PRAP or other things that you know, if you're being seen by mental health, you there has there's an evaluation that has to happen or a decision made about your fitness for duty.
Speaker 3:This is speaking in generics, it's not. Every case is different. I don't know enough about all of them. So just a little caveat. A little caveat. But the you know, being able to do um, outreach or preventative care to stem something before it becomes a problem, right, keeps a lot of that off of the record and a lot of that um to where, like it doesn't require, uh, you know, a competency evaluation or you know, a security investigation or things like that, because you're, you know, seeking things out as a preventative measure versus I am diagnosed with clinical X problem. You know can be treated very differently. And so outreach and BHOP or your primary care behavioral health, pcbh, those are all ways in which those people contribute value in the deployed environment. But it's rarely captured in the same way or looked at in the same way by leadership who's looking at you know? Like expending resources for deployed missions. No business is good business when it comes to mental health and at least clinical mental health visits mental health and at least clinical mental health visits.
Speaker 2:So I think I'll punctuate some of what Manoj said. I really think it's important that we talk about the stigma because it does still exist and I think it will. I think in some ways it will always exist. But the more that we work to sort of normalize the fact that you know I view mental health and some of the stuff surrounding mental health is, I don't want to say a spectrum, but more of like a seasonal thing, right, life comes in seasons, and so there'll be times where we're going to need, like you said, you can't train for a marathon by jumping on a treadmill once right, when things are coming at you and they're heavy in life, right, we're going to need more help and resources than when things aren't going in that way. And so I think normalizing that a little bit when things aren't going in that way, and so I think normalizing that a little bit and I think things like your podcast do that Getting more people to talk about it, to talk about it openly, share their experiences I do think that that helps normalize it a bit.
Speaker 2:As far as mental health relating to IT, I think I'm going to be generalizing a little bit, but one of the things that I've noticed and again, I'm generalizing, I don't think this applies universally to every single person that works in IT, but it seems that imposter syndrome is prevalent for IT professionals. I've thought a lot about this and maybe the reasons why it's like this, but really the best I can kind of come up with is it seems like we're expected to know everything, like we are 100, looked at as experts in all things it. And I'll give a simple example right, you know, a meeting will be taking place and all of a sudden a projector will stop working or the computer will freeze up and they immediately look for, like the computer person in the room and like, hey, fix this. Like that's usually like, fix this. And you know there's a, there's a problem, and it may be a simple problem, but it may not be. But I think like that that need to have those things fixed immediately, right, because we rely so heavily on technology, and that need to like, know, like hey, I'm the system administrator, I'm the network engineer, I'm the cyber guy, I have to know exactly what to do and when to do it.
Speaker 2:I think that kind of feeds into some of that imposter syndrome and it's. You know, when you have a systems administrator who's been doing the job for five years sitting next to somebody who's been doing the job for 30 years, right, the person that's only been doing it for five years may feel like dang, this person's going to find me out Like I don't know what I'm doing Right, rather than you know. Sharing information, having maybe more of an open and collaborative environment an open and collaborative environment I don't know that that's always been the norm in IT, but it feels like we're starting to get there and it's something I've always I tried to cultivate within my sections to help try to reduce some of the anxiety and stress around some of that imposter syndrome. I hope that kind of answers the intent of what you were looking for.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. That's all I got for you guys today. Thank you for coming out. We'll get Manoj out with a whopping four minutes left, but I thank you all for coming on the show. I encourage listeners to share their thoughts on social media. I've got the Facebook. This will be up on Buzzsprout. I'm trying to get out to TikTok. I'm old almost 40, so I'm trying to figure out all these social media sites, trying our best, but I'll try and get some clips up.
