MindForce: Mental Fitness & Life Stories!
Join Nate on MindForce, a podcast exploring the intersection of love, life, and learning. Through authentic conversations and personal stories, we dive into the complexities of mental fitness, self-care, and personal growth. With a focus on empathy, resilience, and inspiration, MindForce is a safe space for listeners to reflect, learn, and connect with others. Tune in for thought-provoking discussions, heartfelt stories, and practical insights to help you navigate life's challenges and cultivate a stronger, wiser you!
<p>
***The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individual(s) involved and do not reflect the official policy or position of the United States Air Force, the Department of Defense, or any other agency of the United States Government.***
<p>
Intro/Outro Music handcrafted by Jason Gilzene / GillyThaGoat: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/gillythagoat/1679853063
https://open.spotify.com/artist/60LWLaRPIWLUG2agvpKEH7
<p>
#MindForcePodcast #MentalFitness #LifeStories #Wellbeing #Journey #HeroHighlights #Podcasts #MindSet #Success
<p>
https://www.riverside.fm/?via=nate-scheer
MindForce: Mental Fitness & Life Stories!
Transformative Leadership: Brig Gen (Ret.) John "Dragon" Teichert on Innovation, Priorities, and the Power of Prayer
This podcast episode discusses effective leadership through the insights of John Dragon Teichert, a retired Air Force officer. Teichert emphasizes the importance of small acts of kindness, genuine care for team members, and fostering an innovative environment as essential qualities of impactful leadership.
• Leadership shapes communities and nations
• Small, meaningful gestures create lasting impact
• Balancing personal and professional commitments enhances harmony
• Genuine care fosters trust and communication
• Encouraging a culture of innovation promotes creativity
• Leaders can inspire revival through community engagement
• Prioritizing needs aligns personal and professional goals
• Team empowerment leads to meaningful change
• Investing in people nurtures a thriving organizational culture
• Leaders should model values and actions for their teams
Thank you. Hi everyone, I'm Nate Shearer, the host of Mindforce, where we take on love, life and learning from every angle, because what goes on in your mind truly matters. Today we have John Dragon Tyker. We'll be talking about leadership, innovation, our great nation and the need for revival. He's recently been on Fox. I think this is my first celebrity, so someone that's actually been on TV. So, sir, I appreciate the time for you to stop and, you know, come on the show.
Speaker 2:Nate, I am so appreciative that you invited me on. Thanks for having me and thanks for what you continue to do for our country through the United States Air Force.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, so we'll start with the warm-up. The who, the what, the why. Who are you? What do you do and why are you here?
Speaker 2:I? Why? Who are you? What do you do and why are you here? I am John Dragon Teichert. I am a fairly recently retired Air Force officer I actually retired two years ago today, on the date of our filming and I spent the entirety of my adult life serving my country, and now I am finding the next avenue to hopefully serve my country in a more impactful way in this half of my life. I'm here because I, like you, nate. We served together at Edwards Air Force Base, a place that I call the center of the aerospace testing universe, and when you reached out and asked me to come on, I said absolutely yes, when and where and how. And here we are.
Speaker 1:Awesome, thank you, sir. So first easy question and here we are Awesome, thank you, sir. So first easy question what's your favorite and least less desirable part of Lake and Heath?
Speaker 2:and living in the UK it's been a while, but I was a young Lieutenant when I showed up at Lake and Heath. I was a first assignment F-15E strike Eagle pilot. So now I'm this guy that has just learned how to do this dream job that I had actually pictures of F-15E Strike Eagles on my walls when I was a high schooler and now I'm here to do the job. I live with three other single guys in a four-story manor house outside of Cambridge. We had awesome parties, we had awesome opportunities to serve our country at work, we went to war together and it was just a phenomenal all-around experience. My wife finished her grad school degree at Berkeley, a PhD in chemistry, and then came to join me. During the last two of my three years there we moved out into the country into a phenomenal home and we served our country together, commuted in together and it was just a great springboard for my military career.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Sounds like you really enjoyed it. One thing I wanted to ask you one of my favorite things I remember from you, and it's interesting how the things get burned in your memory. It's usually like the smaller things. And one of the things I absolutely loved is you would memorize the accomplishments of members when they won their award. So we had so many categories at Edwards. We had civilians and teams and mission hacker and all these different things, and so to be able to remember all the numbers and all those things that you did is just amazing. So my next question is what are some things you did throughout your career that cost nothing but made lasting impacts?
Speaker 2:Nate, I'm going to actually jump to the topic you just talked about, and I did that throughout my career where if somebody is worthy of earning an award, then I certainly should spend the time understanding and maybe memorizing what they won it for. And it was a fun exercise for me, and actually my family, to write down all of these award winners there was something like two dozen of them at Edwards and then have three bullets or so for each that I would just memorize. My family would help me, then quiz me on the drive down to Lancaster or Palmdale and then just ask me about hey, this is this person, what award did they win and what are you going to say about it? And my oldest daughter was a hammer that she, if I got a little thing wrong or I forgot a little bit of a detail, she would hammer me, and so it was a fun exercise. But it made it a family exercise because we served together in what we call Team Teichert and it was just a great way to help my family understand the great things that were being done by our team and members of our team. And that's one of those things, nate, where it doesn't really cost anything but it provides so much value added.
Speaker 2:Let me give you one more. I wrote two handwritten notes every single calendar day, during every day of both of my back-to-back wing commands. I commanded Joint Base Andrews here in the DC area and then I had eight days to get across the country and then took command of Edwards Air Force Base and I started doing it. I kept track of each of them. It probably took me 10 minutes a day, but it gave me two benefits.
Speaker 2:Number one it gave me the benefit of being attentive to the great things that I should be attentive to as a wing commander in a base of 11,000 or a base of 17,000, and be attentive to the good things going on around me and have sensor networks so I can be tracking all of these good things.
Speaker 2:But then it put a spring in my step because it helped me to realize that, in spite of all of the bad, unfun things that sometimes a leader has to do during the course of the day, I would save those two notes, or three or four or whatever I would do on a particular day, to the very end of the day, and it would just give me this sense of inspiration that my team was doing this great work and it cost me 10 minutes to do those two notes.
Speaker 2:And the thing, nate, that blew me away is that as I was walking around the base and I would get out a lot from my office and go out and meet people and talk to them where they were in their office and I would see that note that took me, say, five minutes, tacked up on someone's bulletin board next to their family, next to their kids, next to some other things that meant a lot to them and that blew me away that my five-minute note made their wall of fame and what an impact I could make in five minutes to recognize somebody and write it down in a quick note. That was totally free, it cost almost nothing, and I have no doubt that it provided me and others a huge benefit just in doing so.
Speaker 1:And that's so powerful too. I think there's so many times in leadership we want it to be this Herculean effort, this large thing that has to happen, but I think those smaller things are super important. I have a letter that's signed by you for the Air Force Ball and I still have it. I made a custom wooden box and it sits in there. And you know those times where you're not sure if you're worthy, you're going through that imposter syndrome. There's all those different things. The mind is such a powerful thing. I reflect back on them. I mean, I don't read them all every time, but I look back at them, definitely, and realize that you know, someone spent the time and so I need to come through. And, speaking of writing, I did want to highlight we do have a two-time author here, so we got Boom. Definitely recommend this book, love this book.
Speaker 1:My favorite part of this book is the practical advice. I think a lot of times in leadership book it's like these hypotheticals, it's these things. Dragon does an amazing job of highlighting actual experiences that happen in real life and then how to get after that. And then he just has his new one that just came out. Awesome book here, great way to start your day Prayers for our nation, which we'll get into revival in a little bit, but speaking of writing, I had to get that before we get too much farther along. But I really appreciate you highlighting the things that don't cost anything, because I think that's super important. To realize Leadership, you know, it doesn't have to be a specific rank or person or these huge efforts. Leadership shows up in lots of different ways.
Speaker 2:It does, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. I mentioned briefly getting out to where the people are and getting out of your office. That's another one that's free and you know, I think it was General Eisenhower that at some point said something like I get out to visit my men to inspire them, but often it is them who inspire me. And I think it's important for a leader at any level, formal or informal, to get out to where the members of their team are, to get out to where the mission gets done, and it gives you that spring in your step and no doubt it gives the folks that you meet with a little bit of spring in their step as well. And it also again creates this sensor network where you're better attuned to what's going on, not just for the mission, but what's going on in the lives of your people.
Speaker 2:And you get to know your people in those ways, because when you invite people up to the ivory tower of whatever your headquarters building is, they're super intimidated and they're probably not going to open up and share the things that you would like them to share with you or the things that maybe you need to know as a leader.
Speaker 2:But if you get out to their place of work or where they're hanging out with their family on the weekends. Not in this weird creepy you're all the time everywhere way, but in this just genuine way that you're a regular person, you're trying to understand what's going on with them and those shields go down and you're better able to understand what's going on with them. And those shields go down and you're better able to understand what's going on, understand the needs of your people, getting a sense of all of the Herculean efforts that go on amongst getting the mission accomplished. And that is so free and it's so easy. But you've got to schedule it, you've got to be deliberate about it, otherwise you're just going to sit in your ivory tower and sign memos and sign OPRs and feedback forms and never actually really interact with the people who are doing all the great work in your organization to get the job done.
Speaker 1:That reminds me of that famous quote, which now I wish I could remember who said it but if the people stop bringing you their problems, you've lost them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have, and maybe here's another one. You got me going on this free thing, nick, because most of the good leadership techniques are free and easy. One of the ones that I love doing is when I did get out to where they were you probably were the recipient of this I almost always would ask two questions, and the questions would be what can I do for you and what am I doing wrong, or what are we doing wrong, and I love that. Once people really believe that you actually want feedback in those ways, then the floodgates open and you learn so much more than you ever would when you're protected by your gatekeepers and it does go, though, to the idea that you need to be genuine in those asks. But once your team believes that you're genuine, then you will learn so much that will make you a better leader and more effective at meeting the needs of the individuals on your team and the needs of the team itself.
Speaker 1:I love that you mentioned that, so I got to ask for you to expand on that a little bit, because I've had many commanders and we hear terms like open door policy and these things. I feel like we have a lot of buzz terms. How do you back up the things that you say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it really is consistency over time that in the very beginning, if you don't have a reputation or they don't know you, everyone's going to be guarded and they're not really going to believe that you're really asking for their honest opinion. But I think the word gets out pretty quickly when someone brings you a problem and you jump on it and all of a sudden that problem is solved and they tell their buds and they tell their coworkers and the word gets out. You know, when we were at Edwards, we had a variety of forum where people could bring up problems. Dragon's Lair was this anonymous online forum that we use through our app. I would ask those questions.
Speaker 2:One of the things that you may not be privy to, nate though I do mention it in my book is that on day one on the job, I invited my leadership team, my subordinate team.
Speaker 2:I give them my philosophy, but then I always ask them to write on note cards before I let them walk out the door. Write down one thing that I can do in the next week that can make your life easier, your team's lives easier, or it more easy to accomplish the mission, and almost always those things they write down are delegations of authority or waivers and I can get to yes very quickly. I publicize getting to yes on these types of things. And now all of a sudden, you're starting off your tenure as a leader where people have seen you in action, ask those type of questions and then doggedly follow up. And once people believe that you're listening, again there's so much that are on the minds of your team good ideas, problems, concerns, barriers that if you get out there and they believe that you're listening and you follow up, that proves that you're listening. Consistency over time. Then now you're going to learn so much that will make you better able to meet their needs, to improve quality of life and to improve the mission.
Speaker 1:I think that goes back to the smaller things, like one of the things I remember the pump for car tires was out and so someone like threw it in there, you got with CE and then they fixed it and that improved lives. You know people could be, you know, having safety problems crashing like. You know that ripples out so far and all it is is getting the pump at the gas station fixed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a couple of street lights people would bring up, or then bigger things. You know too many reserved parking spaces on the base and immediately I said CE, what's going on here? And sure enough, now these reserved spaces are taking up spots where real people that have real needs, that use them all the time, can park. And so, yeah, you get to some of the easy things and it starts to build momentum, and that momentum eventually gets you both an accumulation of good ideas that you're able to implement, and then some of the bigger, juicier ones come along as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, having five general spots and there's only you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm the only one.
Speaker 2:And I can walk a couple extra paces if I just have to park in a normal person parking spot.
Speaker 1:One thing I remember which I'd love for you to highlight here, because it just resonated so much with me, and I know it's not your quote, but it's just one of those things that's so powerful. You had talked about how you can judge somebody's priorities and what's going on in their life by their checkbook and their calendar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that is actually a quote from the founder of Southwest Airlines, herb Keller, and the idea that our two most precious resources are time and money, our checkbook and our calendar.
Speaker 2:He said that you can judge what someone's real priorities are, not what they say they are, not what the mission statement on the wall says that it is, but what the real priorities are by how they spend their time and how they spend their money, by looking at their calendar and their checkbook. And I think you and I and everybody needs to think about that in our personal lives as well. By the way, careers should not be the number one priority of anybody that's listening. It should be down the list. I don't mind sharing my priorities if that's of interest to you, but I think in every area of our life, are we aligning our resources time and money with our priorities? And be very deliberate about that, because if you're not, then whatever you say your priorities are aren't actually your priorities. They're the ones that are determined or revealed by how you spend your time and your money, and I love that idea and I think it's important for us to assess ourselves regularly against that type of metric.
Speaker 1:So what are they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I don't mind saying and they are very specifically listed out and I review them every couple of weeks. They are faith, family, friends, country, career, ministry, opportunities and miscellaneous relationships. And I know that so well because when I was a captain turning to young major I was flying F-22s six days a week. During the early days of the flight test program. We were behind schedule. I was a new dad, I was a young husband and I would get to the end of a day, week, month or even sometimes year and look back and say I was so busy. But what did I accomplish? And I put some structures in place in my life. That started with listing out my seven priority buckets those actually it was six.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you a wrinkle of where it changed in the last decade and a half here in a bit, but I'm very specific about every year going through what are my priority buckets? Are they the same as they have been? And then setting specific goals for the year or for the next two to three weeks, because I go back and assess this every couple of weeks. Set goals for the year or for the next two to three weeks, because I go back and assess this every couple of weeks, set goals for the year or for the next period of time in how I'm going to further my ability to succeed in those major priority areas. And then I have this time of assessment every two to three weeks and certainly at the end of the year, and that helps me better align my life with my priorities and be cognizant that, while we're never going to nail the balance or the harmony in life, work and all of those elements that are demanding our time and our attention, but we'll do a lot better if we're more deliberate about how we manage our lives and prioritize them relative to time and relative to money.
Speaker 2:The only time those priorities changed was in 2012. I started this process in 2006, and I used to have country and career as the same priority. It was country slash career, and I served my entire adult life in the military, so it was easy to see that my country and my career were essentially the same. But that year in my self-assessment, I realized that there might be a time where I would have to decide which is more important my career or my service to my country, and so I very explicitly broke out so that country is a priority ahead of career. So if I ever came across a situation like that, I would know that it was best to set myself aside and serve my country ahead of myself.
Speaker 1:So you use the word balance, and one thing I struggle with quite a bit is the term work-life balance. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2:I think Jeff Bezos encourages us to think about it as harmony, where you're never going to be balanced. That's a foolish type of thought because there's so many demands on our time. But harmony is a better understanding and I like it because of the integrated nature of life, where you now can think about life as a portfolio. And while I did say that I have seven priority areas, that if I'm looking at life as a stovepipe or a bunch of stovepipes, then now I'm trying to balance and I'm on one foot, I'm on the other and I'm likely never going to get it right, but if I look at all of those as a part of the portfolio of an integrated life, I think it's interesting that you think about the word. Integrated is the same root as integrity or being whole and complete, and I think that if we're going to live life with integrity and be integrated, then we should look at life and understand priorities, but also understand there's plenty of opportunities to fulfill multiple priorities at once and in doing so, you can find a bit of harmony.
Speaker 2:I mentioned the memorizing the awards for work and using my family to quiz me earlier. Using the awards for work and using my family to quiz me earlier. You know, as I did that project, then I realized that that's fulfilling family time, that's fulfilling career, that's fulfilling country. When I go home and I tell my family, hey, somebody at work has this huge burden, they asked me to pray for them. Let's pray for them together as a family.
Speaker 2:Now I'm fulfilling faith, country, career, family and ministry opportunities all at once. And I like the idea that there's a lot of demand on our time, nate, that if we are reasonable about it, with 160 some hours in a week, that we're going to probably work in our career 40 to 60. We're going to sleep 60. And now we are running out of time, which means we've got to be deliberate either about integrating priorities or at least preserving not just time but energy, attention and passion for the other elements of our life that are our priorities. And while career is number five and I have to spend 60 hours a week fulfilling that, as a wing commander, as an example, I'm not going to spend 60 hours on number one, two, three and four and six and seven. But if I preserve intentionally time, energy, attention and passion for those items and integrate other priorities into that one and that one into others, then I'm more harmonized in my life and not trying to find this impossible balance that never exists.
Speaker 1:That's perfect. Yeah, I feel like it always wants to be this net zero, and net zero is not a thing, so I want to give you a chance to ask me a question.
Speaker 2:So, Nate, I always am looking for leadership advice. I am a lifelong student of leadership, I love learning from books, I love learning from people. I keep a leadership journal, a running leadership journal, and have done so for a decade and a half to learn about leadership from people up down the chain and across. And so my question is and it can't in any way relate back to me, so you can't use me as an example of this, because that would be pandering and I would give you the big red X Give mea really good leadership tidbit, recommendation or piece of advice. That maybe is something that I wouldn't otherwise have thought about.
Speaker 1:Okay, one of my favorite things. I'll go with a dear friend I'm still trying to get her on the show, so you can nudge her, general Foster, she's going to come on the show at some point. One thing that she did which I think this goes back to the little things, and I guess it's not something you haven't thought of, but I think it's something that's super important and it was that she would sit and dedicate time so go back to the calendar and review slides of meetings for the next day and annotate notes and questions, and that single thing gave so much time back to people where we would fly through the slides, because she'd already taken her time to look through and take care of those things, and I think that's something that's super important. No one likes meetings. You can get more done, and so maybe that's a simple thing and maybe that's too quick of an answer, but I think you know, pouring of yourself and giving to others is super important and that's a really good way to do that, and for some reason, I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I've seen it since, but it was something so important. She sat with Kathy I wonder if Kathy's still there and, um, she would block that time and just make those notes, and so we were able to have good, you know, constructive discussion and things like that as we work through, instead of, like just you know, sit in the meeting like no one wants to be there. It was constructive, it was good, it was. You know, get in and get out, so I would say, you know reviewing stuff before people need it.
Speaker 2:That is awesome. I'm going to riff off of that a little bit if you don't mind. Brigadier General Gwen Foster is the person for your listeners that we're talking about. She was the medical group commander during the entire time that I was the wing commander at Edwards. Her call sign is Fiend. If folks don't know that, I'm not going to tell the full story, but it's out there and I had the huge privilege a few months ago of promoting her to one star. She's the senior nurse in the United States Air Force, a phenomenal servant leader, and it doesn't surprise me that she so values her team members' time that she does her homework and invests her time so that she doesn't waste theirs. And you know when you're a leader that there are preps to the preps, to the prep of the meeting with you and if you find a way to streamline that, then you're giving back time to your team. You know who does that.
Speaker 2:Also, nate is Secretary Frank Kendall. I was amazed. I worked for him twice directly One when he was the Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition, technology and Logistics and then once when he was Secretary of the Air Force, and he actually would be offended if you walked into a meeting and just started briefing the slides, he would stop you immediately because he had read them. He got the slides, he knows it. He's a smart guy. He has a very few particular questions about benefits, costs, risks, as an example, or maybe some technical detail that he wants to dive into. But don't distract or waste his time or your own by briefing slides that you already gave him.
Speaker 2:But let's get into some meat that isn't apparent on the slides and I love the fact that he, very quickly and his staff, would tell you hey, don't go in here and plan to brief the slides because he'll stop you and then at some point get mad about it in a righteous anger kind of way and he just would want to jump into the details. And I have no doubt that Fien would just do her homework and then want to jump into the details and get in a meeting and get out, because meetings can be soul sucking and don't just let the meetings gobble up your calendar and the calendars of your team. Get in, do what you need to do, get your questions answered, understand costs, benefits and risks and then get out. And it doesn't surprise me that Fiend Foster did that perfectly well as the medical group commander and beyond.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just a force multiplier, because you know her amount of time. You know then multiplies out to the 40 people that just sit in the room and they're all getting their time back. So I want to transition into the foundation for the episode. So the very first thing you listed was leadership, which totally makes sense. So leadership shapes the course of nations and communities. What do you believe defines a great leader and why is strong leadership crucial today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I firmly believe, nate, that everything rises and falls on leadership, and a leader should primarily focus on helping the members of their team become the best possible version of themselves. That takes a range of leadership tools and sometimes it's very easy to get distracted by the immediate mission. We're all in an organization to achieve the immediate mission, so that's going to get done, especially if you tend to the needs of your people. But those individuals on your team are likely going to go on and do other things as members of a broader team, a different team, or as citizens in this country or elsewhere. And if you invest in them, then now you have this multiplicative effect of them going on to do great things and carrying a little bit of you and your leadership with them. That allows a leader to have far more influence or impact than they ever would have otherwise. And the way I like to define this or describe it was a really good squadron commander I had when I was a young lieutenant at Lakenheath In 1997 through 2000,. Junior Summonsby was his name. We still keep in touch. He retired as an 06. And it was him and his DO, killer Quast, who retired as a three-star, and two flight commanders, ozzie Nelson and Ludes Ludwig, and they were majors and captains at the time, probably in their late 20s, and I was a new Strike Eagle pilot that showed up at RAF Lake and Heath, the 492nd Fighter Squadron, and they prioritized, of course, helping us be good Strike Eagle pilots and wizos, but they also were deliberate about helping us become the type of leaders that the nation and the Air Force needed and I think I understood a little bit of the importance then, nate, about what they were doing.
Speaker 2:But then, 20 years later, I'm sitting in a room. Every year the chief of staff of the Air Force brings in all of his wing commanders active duty, guard and reserve there's about 250 of us and has a two-day conference. And as I sit down and I look around the room, like people typically do when you go to a conference of who do I know, I recognized that there were seven of us in that room at the same time as wing commanders that 20 years prior had been lieutenants and young captains in the same squadron, at the same time at RAF Lake and Heath, and I thought back is it cronyism? Is it nepotism? No, no, it is because junior killer Ozzie and Ludes invested intentionally in us and that manifested itself in an investment that returned on investment 20 years later. Southern Wing Commanders of the United States Air Force by the way, there was at least one more from that time that became a Wing Commander later. So that's eight.
Speaker 2:That is a large portion of that room that they had influenced by being deliberate about helping us become the best possible version of themselves. That doesn't mean they coddled us. That meant sometimes we needed correction to get back on the right track. Sometimes leaders inspire, encourage, challenge, convict and correct.
Speaker 2:No one likes the last one, but it's a necessary part of if I genuinely care about you, nate, and helping you become the best possible version of yourself, then it means that I'm going to employ that range of leadership tools so that you can stay on the right track or get back on the right track to become the best possible version of yourself. And I may not know that that investment yields a return until 20 years later when you become something a wing commander or a great citizen, or leading a podcast and whatever else it may be. But I just was so challenged by the idea that those four relatively young leaders 35 years old for the DO and the commander and probably 29 for the squadron, the flight commanders, had yielded a return on investment that was massive, because they helped us become the best possible version of ourselves maybe it's always been that way, but I feel like the biggest buzz term, or one of the biggest buzz terms, is mentorship and coaching and all these things, but no one really knows how to define that.
Speaker 1:But I think what you just went through that range of good to bad is really what mentorship is. People just want to talk about assignments and the good stuff, and how do I get to here? I think that's what they want the definition of mentorship, but it really is all those things I think that's what they want, the definition of mentorship, but it really is.
Speaker 2:All those things no. And it's regular feedback too. You know, the thing that really makes our Air Force unique, if you look back to the idea that we have not had an American soldier, sailor, airman, marine coast guardsman or a guardian killed by a manned adversary from the air since April of 1953. That is a long legacy of air dominance. But it's not because we've got the fanciest planes though maybe we do. Not because we have the best pilots, though maybe we do. But it's because after every single mission, we sit down in a debrief and we're very intentional about what were the objectives of the mission, how did we do from beginning to end and what is the root cause of the problems that we faced or where we went wrong and how do we do against those objectives. And I think if you're in a front office or you're working in the trenches and you don't need something, that's big and formal, but if you just have a quick after action or a quick red team or a quick piece of feedback and you find out hey, we just did this, we did these things well, we didn't do these things so well, let's make sure that we clean these up. So the next time we do it, we do it better.
Speaker 2:Then now you're giving regular feedback. You know, the thing that I really hate, nate, is bottling up feedback so that only every six months or a year at midterm or OPR time or EPR time, you're giving someone feedback. Think about this I've got three kids, summer, tiffany and Noah two girls in college and a son senior in high school. Think about if I only gave them feedback every six months. I would be a neglectful or abusive parent.
Speaker 2:It's a lot better if, on a regular basis, you do a quick spot feedback. Here's the good, here's the bad, here's the objectives, here's how we did, here's the things that I did wrong. By the way, that gives you credibility is focusing on where you made mistakes. And now you are constantly in a learning environment and you're paying attention to the needs of those individuals on your team. And they've got families and they've got friends, and they've got friends and they're going to church and they're trying to figure out how to pay the bills, and maybe they've got an ailing mother or a sick dad, and you're understanding the details of those things and you're tending to them as well, while you help them become the best possible version of themselves. And now you are growing and learning and demonstrating genuine care and concern in a way that allows human beings to thrive.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That connection goes a long way. The next question I had for you moves into innovation. So innovation often drives progress. How can leaders foster an environment where creativity and forward thinking ideas thrive?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, nate, you know that, that first book of mine that you mentioned, Boom, oh look, you're wearing Eddie the Innovation Dragon as a shirt or a sweatshirt. I love it. There's probably a hashtag Innovative AF down at the bottom of that, am I right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to get into that, but.
Speaker 2:Well, that's okay, we'll get to. We'll wait for the story about that. Af of course means Air Force, I'll leave it at that for now. Of course is Leadership that Breaks Barriers, challenges, convention and Ignites Innovation. And it's the story of us at Edwards and how we took this bureaucratic quagmire of an organization and fundamentally changed the culture in about six months to have more innovation activity at one base of 11,000 people than the rest of the United States Air Force combined. And it sounds almost impossible but we did it.
Speaker 2:But here's maybe a springboard into the fundamental element of that book, and I talk about how innovation is defined, as any member of your team with an idea believes that someone will listen to it, someone will consider it and someone will act appropriately on it. And that is the mantra that I talk about consistently. And if you create a culture where people believe someone's listening, considering and acting, then now you unlock talent and unleash your teams. But maybe here's a way that you were involved in this, not at Edwards but after that, because both of my books I crowdsourced the titles of those books the boom and subtitle came from the Area Defense Council, actually from Edwards. Aaron is his name Brilson. I would have never picked that title on my own. I would have picked innovation on afterburner because I'm a fighter pilot and I know what afterburner means. But folks gave me the feedback that people may not know what Afterburner means. So I titled my opening chapter Innovation on Afterburner.
Speaker 2:But he came up with a great idea of boom, which has the dual meaning of an explosion of a mountain like Mount St Helens, which I heard is a seven-year-old boy in Washington state and then the sonic booms of supersonic aircraft. But I crowdsourced that and I crowdsourced my second book, prayers for a Nation, and it was Nate Shear that gave me the recommendation on Prayers for a Nation. In fact, I was leaning towards Now, which is a little bit of a one-word title like Boom. That was going to provide parallelism and the idea that we need to pray for our country now for such a time as this. But your idea was such a good one and what I did was I crowdsourced ideas and then I cultivated those down to maybe the best four or five and then I crowdsourced voting on which should I pick?
Speaker 2:And overwhelmingly people picked boom and people picked prayers for a nation. And so, nate, thank you for being somebody that had an idea and I am so glad that I listened and I considered and I acted. I actually didn't mean the crowdsourcing of the titles to be a metaphor for the ideas in Boom of listen, consider and act, but it shows you that there are so many good ideas all around us that if we squint with our ears and people believe that we are listening and considering and acting, then we will have a wealth of better information with which to do the tasks we do in our lives, because we are using other people's ideas and wrapping them into our ideas and that makes for a far richer environment and better source of ideas or opportunities or courses of action.
Speaker 1:Which is the perfect segue, for how did you come up with the winter of waivers?
Speaker 2:So it actually started with the summer of waivers, and so the idea was that we were trying to get people to give us their ideas. And so the idea was that we were trying to get people to give us their ideas, and it really struck me that there were so many regulatory barriers that were getting in people's way. But I also realized, with a tip from the director of staff from the United States Air Force then, general Van Ovost, that a wing commander has a lot more waiver authority than I even recognized. And so, with that in mind, I said let's make a contest out of it where any airman or anyone in the organization, if they have a waiver recommendation, they would write it down. In this contest we were trying to get as many as possible, as quickly as possible, and they would write it down.
Speaker 2:And the problem is, nate, that sometimes when somebody in the trenches has a good idea, it gets filtered or stifled or blocked before it gets to the ultimate decision maker. So my rule was anyone can submit a waiver, and every one of those has to get to me, that people between you and me can say or recommend no, but no one can say no, and it's got to get to me within a week, so no one can slow roll these things. One can say no and it's got to get to me within a week, so no one can slow roll these things. And we got to yes, I think in a very short period of time.
Speaker 2:We had over 100 waiver recommendations or requests that were just areas of regulations that were getting in people's way, either that degraded quality of life or hindered the mission, and we got to yass on all but three of them and it was just kind of a fun contest that played into this culture change that we had already experienced in the spring of that year. And then we decided to have a winter version of that as well. That was a little bit of a riff off of the Boston Tea Party and started on the day of the start of the Boston Tea Party, and it was all just how do we dump these regulations into the ocean or into the bay? Because they're just getting in our way and they're worthless. And we found another way to find additional waiver requests or recommendations based on that.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a perfect example of two things. We've already talked about Giving your time. Right, you had to give your time, just like General Foster did, to look at all of them, and I'm sure that's probably why a lot get filtered because, oh, he doesn't have the time. So you took the time. And then also, what you just mentioned is there's a lot of good ideas out there and they all came up so you were able to crowdsource. I mean, there's got to be better resources in numbers, right, just statistically, if there's more information, more ideas coming out, they're going to be better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, nate, I'm not the idea guy. A leader out there that's listening may not think they're particularly creative and be the idea guy or the idea gal, but if you have a team of 11 or 11,000, there are a lot of good ideas out there. You know the last commander's call that I had at the end of January of 2020, before I gave up command of that amazing place known as the center of the aerospace testing universe. Someone asked the question and in my commander calls, people would text either the front office or the command chief, and now we had dozens of questions. Some were fun, some were funny, some were dad jokes, some were you went for the Cowboys or the Rams or whoever it is, marvel or DC Comics.
Speaker 2:But someone asked, of all the ideas that I had in this innovation campaign, which was the best idea?
Speaker 2:And I was thinking through a slew of the really good ideas that we got to yes on, but my response was my best idea was listening to all of your ideas, because it's not just about me, it's not my ideas, I'm not creative, but I know that there's a lot of creative people out there and if we can unlock that talent and unleash those teams, then now we're getting a wealth of opportunity to consider ideas.
Speaker 2:And then one other thought, nate, is that this concept, and the waiver concept especially, goes way back to the beginning of our discussion about something that's free. The thing that's interesting about delegating authority or about waiving regulations is that it's an infinite return on investment because you get an improvement of effectiveness divided by cost, which is zero, and anything divided by zero is infinity. So by delegating authority or by finding waivers and getting rid of regulations that are getting in the way, you are giving yourself infinite return on investment because it's no cost and you get some sometimes huge improvements, and you are giving yourself an opportunity to return on investment in a way that almost nothing else can, because it is fre free hey, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's super important to remember because we always talk about not not having enough people or money or manpower and and right there you can wave stuff, try to route those up for delegation, down and things like that. I wanted to ask you hopefully you remember I think you do. Your memory is super good what was your favorite tile from the innovation wall?
Speaker 2:You know what I know? This is audio, not visual, but I have a tile that's sitting on the wall behind me, probably not in your field of view. I'm looking around, nate, it's up there in the corner. Find out where no lives and kill it.
Speaker 1:Kill it. Yes, I wanted to try to guess, so I got that I got that as a gift going away.
Speaker 2:I've taken it to Baghdad. When I was deployed there for 14 months, I took it to the Pentagon. It's in my home office now. I suspect that whatever it is that I do next, I'll bring it with me, but I think it's a great symbol and, by the way, it has Eddie, the innovation dragon on there that you're wearing in your shirt right now.
Speaker 2:But I hate people. That just automatic. I don't hate people. Let me just rephrase that. I hate it when people just say no and it's so easy to say no and it kills progress and it probably indicates shallow thought. And instead of saying no, let's say let me consider this and listen to it and maybe there's a way to get to yes. Maybe it's impossible now, maybe it takes a waiver above me, maybe it takes a little bit of investment until the time is right to get to yes. But it is so lazy to get to no because it's so easy, and instead we should heal those no's, not the people that say them, but maybe reform them so they're more likely to say yes or to consider something before they're spring loaded to say no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. The next question I had is related to this what are some of the biggest obstacles leaders face when trying to innovate or inspire change, especially in units that have done things the same way for a long time or they have long standing roots?
Speaker 2:Yeah, people talk about the frozen middle, and that's a real thing and it exists, but I think that what you do to overcome that frozen middle is to communicate in a compelling way that the status quo is going to fail. It's compelling, consistent communication about how we need to do something different, because the environment has changed and the mission requires that we think about all of these different ways that we can do something different. But now you got people that are trapped in the middle, who have probably been around for a little while and they're pretty comfortable with doing the things that they've done consistently throughout time, and so now you've got a bit of a squeeze play where the top is encouraging it. By the way, innovation never comes from top down. It's protected from top down, but it bubbles from the bottom up. And now how do you get through the middle?
Speaker 2:Well, hopefully, you consistently communicate and at some point you co-op some of those people, but you also co-op some of those people going back to calendar and checkbook, where, if you're the boss and you're spending your organization's time and money and you're rewarding or awarding or promoting people that are on board with your vision and are furthering that vision, then now the middle either decides I'm going to get left behind or I probably should change, or I'm never going to get resources or I'm never going to get the boss's time because I'm just being stagnant in the middle.
Speaker 2:And people want to progress and it's not because it's necessarily selfish, it's a little bit of human nature. But I do think that if you are diligent about getting interest and energy to bubble from the bottom up, you're protecting it from the top down, you're communicating regularly and effectively and then you align calendar and checkbook with your vision, then everybody at some point realizes it is in their best interest to go along with whatever this conceptual or cultural change is that you as a leader are trying to further, as the bottom bubbling up is, surging with energy and helping people to understand it's in their best interest to go along with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. I want to transition over to revival. So revival often requires a sense of unity and shared purpose. What role do leaders play in bringing together people towards that common goal?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think you're probably talking about spiritual revival, but you can talk about secular revival.
Speaker 2:I think similarly as well. I did write this book, prayers for a Nation that is brilliantly titled because of Nate Shear, which is a 90-day Christian devotional in how to pray for a country. I actually started this concept back in March of 2013 when I started a ministry plus Prayer at Lunchtime for the United States. Prayatlunchus is the website where people can go and I write a blog or two every week. I now have 750 of them that are out there that encourage people to pray for our country and our leaders, because it is the least that we should do and the most that we can do to make an impact on our country is to pray, to connect to the Lord, our God, the source of all power, to enable that power to flow through us and flow into a society that so desperately needs him and desperately needs it. Revival starts Nate at the lowest possible level and the PLOS ministry. This ministry I just described was formed based on a concept from a man named Jeremiah Lamphere in 1857.
Speaker 2:Concept from a man named Jeremiah Lamphere in 1857.
Speaker 2:He was a businessman in Manhattan and he put a sign up on his church door one day, in the middle of some tough times in New York, that said, hey, come pray at noon once a week with me and I think on day one he had nobody for the first 30 minutes and then three or four people filtered in and then it started exploding and he started doing it daily.
Speaker 2:And then other churches started taking on the load in New York City and doing it daily and it spread down the Eastern seaboard and across the Atlantic Ocean and there was this large surge of revival of getting back to connecting with God, realizing him as the preeminent element and force in our life and affixing our lives based on his foundation. And it started with one man putting up a sign on a storefront or church door encouraging people to come pray. And I think that, as Christians who are concerned about the direction of our nation, then the way revival starts is for us to pray for ourselves that we would get right, and pray that we could have the type of impact, harnessing God's power, that can allow our neighborhoods, our communities and our society to get right, as well, my next question, but I'll try to fire it off anyway.
Speaker 1:It sounds like prayer is at the core of that, but what specific actions or initiatives can leaders take, or really anyone take, to spark revival, whether it's in a community organization or on this national level?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and prayer is. A former pastor of mine from Lancaster, california, paul Chappell, told me a story about a really good missionary friend of his in South Korea. That said this missionary to Pastor Chappell that he prays for him daily. This missionary is on the foreign field super busy and Pastor Chappell was dazzled by that and said how do you have time to pray for me daily in the midst of all your other responsibilities? And this missionary said how can I say I love you and not pray for you? How can I say I love you and not pray for you?
Speaker 2:And that applies at the individual level, but it applies at the national level too.
Speaker 2:How can we say that we love our country and not be faithful to find a time daily to pray for her?
Speaker 2:But I also think, from a leadership perspective, that it goes back to an understanding that we need to make sure that we are as right as possible in our own lives, because people are watching constantly and, whether it's in a secular format or a spiritual format, that if I'm not starting my day in good Bible reading and good prayer, that I am now not harnessing the power and the knowledge and the wisdom that can allow me then to make the hundreds of decisions that I'm going to make over the course of the day, and if I'm going to have the most impact, then I need to realize that people are watching and people are judging me and they're considering what they think about what I say.
Speaker 2:I represent either as a secular leader or as a spiritual leader, and so it includes prayer, like I described, and all of the folks that are listening should find time, certainly based on your faith tradition, to pray for our country and our leaders, but it also means that we are investing in ourselves so that we are as strong and as right as possible, harnessing the power of God through us, so that we can make the type of impact that he would have us to make.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's powerful, because really I mean we say it all the time, but you can't take care of others until you're taken care of. I always think back to the speech on the airplane where you put your mask on first, make sure you're taken care of. So I mean if you pass out then you're not taking care of anybody or I guess me being in a medical field. If the medic gets taken out, then you know no one's getting fixed. So you got to take care of yourself first and then go from there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, put your mask on first. I love that idea of the airplane analogy or metaphor to life, where, if you're not investing yourself not in a selfish way, but in a way where you are providing the capabilities so you can be useful to others by building a foundation within yourself then you're putting your mask on first and now you can help a whole lot of other people.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. We talked about innovation, leadership and the revival. What's the one message you want to capture today for the listeners?
Speaker 2:I love the fact, nate, that you are doing this podcast.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2:One of the elements of leadership that we danced around but I didn't explicitly talk about is something that I would always say at every staff meeting of mine was my number one priority for the week, and that was genuine care and concern for the members of my team and their family.
Speaker 2:We talked about helping people become the best possible version of themselves, and that's a bit of a offshoot to the idea that if you're going to be a good leader, if you're going to be an excellent leader, if you're going to be an impactful or influential leader, then you need to really love or care for your people.
Speaker 2:I think there's two innate human needs, nate that people want to be cared for or loved, and people want to be part of something greater than themselves. So, as a leader, if you're genuinely caring for them and helping them become the best possible version of themselves, and then you're communicating in a way so you help people at every level of the organization understand they're part of something greater than themselves in the military context, support and defend the constitution of the United States then now you're tapping into those two innate human needs, but it starts with genuine care or love for the people that work for you or that are surrounding you. And if you have that type of love, then your impact or influence can be massive for the benefit of those people, for their families, for the mission and for an alumni network that will go out and take a little bit of you with them wherever they go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the author of the Fred Factor. I can't think of his name right now, but he has a video where he talks about, he tells people he loves them, and he's like they told me I can't say that in business because it freaks some people out and he's like, no, it freaks everyone out. But, yeah, I totally, I totally agree, like I think there's different types of love and sometimes that gets uh, miss, miss, uh convoluted, um, but yeah, you want the best for those people and you know you need to take care of them and do things like that. So, absolutely, um, I think that's good. Sir, I want to thank you for coming out. Um, it was a great time. Please, everyone, join the conversation. Connect with me on Instagram, facebook, tiktok, youtube. The audio will be up on Buzzsprout or anywhere that you listen to your wonderful podcast. I'll take all the questions, insight or feedback. Just looking to take care of people, we're building a community and doing some good stuff. So I love you all. See ya, thank you.
