Stop People-Pleasing! Embrace Your Worth w/ Nadia Hagen

Today, we explore the transformative power of setting boundaries and the journey to self-discovery with self-love coach Nadia Hagen. Our discussion emphasizes personal growth, the courage to advocate for oneself, and why saying no can be an empowering act.

- Nadia shares her journey as a self-love coach 
- The importance of recognizing and asserting personal boundaries 
- Real-life stories illustrating courage in boundary-setting 
- Strategies for managing the inner critic and self-doubt 
- How identifying core personal values aids in decision-making 
- Navigating relationships while maintaining authenticity 
- Practical advice on how to say no kindly 
- The impact of communicating boundaries effectively 
- Encouragement to pursue authenticity in everyday life 

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Overview
• 3:21 Meet Nadia Hagen, Self
• 9:43 The Importance of Setting Healthy Boundaries
• 19:07 Moments of Courage in Boundary Setting
• 27:42 Overcoming the Inner Critic
• 38:47 Navigating Relationships and Expectations
• 49:12 Practical Tips for Saying No
• 56:57 Understanding Personal Values and Priorities
• 1:05:37 Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:46

Thank you for watching. Hi everyone, I'm Nate Shearer and this is MindForce. Join us as we explore love, life and learning, because your mind is what matters here Today we have Nadia Hagen, and today we'll be talking about setting healthy boundaries, determining your value and intentionally creating an aligned life, living authentically and stopping your inner critic and allowing your ability to train your brain to believe in you. So we'll start with the warm-up the who, what, why, who are you, what do you do and why are you here?

Speaker 2: 1:31

Hello, nate, thank you so much for having me as a guest on your show. I'm Nadja Hagen. As you said, I'm a self-love coach for high-achieving women recovering from people-pleasing, and I help my clients to set healthy boundaries and prioritize themselves so they can intentionally create their lives aligned with their values, while building mutual and connected relationships, and all this without the need to pretend to be someone they are not. So that's who I am, what I do and why do I do it. Because I had to learn all this stuff for myself and it was actually a very long and challenging route to take and I wished I had someone like me 20 years ago. And you know, I had a day where I woke up more or less and noticed that I don't know a single thing about me. I was so busy pleasing other people and meeting expectations and doing the right thing that I completely lost myself along the way. And you know that's not a life that feels like yeah, I want to go out of bed and yeah, I'm fulfilled. That's like me. No, no, no.

Speaker 1: 2:44

So that's the way I do what I do. Much as humans will be discomfortable and continue on. We'll be in bad jobs, bad relationships and we'll kind of just keep going Like we will put up with a lot of things where we really need to stop and, you know, turn and try something new and get back on track, and so it's awesome that you found it and were able to tweak that. I don't think that. You know, setting boundaries is something that really comes natural to us, which kind of leads into the first warm-up question what's a moment in your life where setting a boundary felt like an act of courage, and how did it change things for you?

Speaker 2: 3:22

I had several acts of courage, but I can remember the first one. It was in my career context. So I was still an employee and I started at a new job, a job I was so happy to have, so I was excited about it. And my new boss came to me and I was a project manager in the software development industry and he came and he said Nadia, we have this project and I need you to have it ready in three weeks. I was saying I'm sorry, no way, we're not going to do it in three weeks, weeks. I was saying I'm sorry, no way, we're not going to do it in three weeks.

Speaker 2: 3:54

And you know I can still remember the look in his eyes like how can she dare? And I thought he's going to fire me. He's going to fire me for being so disobedient. And I told him you know, I promise you we need six weeks. But I promise you, after six weeks you get your project, you get it tested, everything will work, everything will run smoothly. But if I tell him we're going to make it in three weeks, then I will come back to you and say we will miss the deadline. So what's the point of it? And he was thinking a little bit. Maybe he gave me a chance, I don't know. But we had the project ready four weeks later. So two weeks earlier everything worked and that was an act of trust building. But it took me a lot of courage to risk this new job and now I could be instantly fired. But for me it was the right thing to do.

Speaker 2: 4:38

So here we are so did he come back and say I'm glad you were able to to set that, or was there any feedback later on no, no, not that, but he never questions my again and that was something that was so beautiful and it refers beautifully to boundaries. I might feel so uncomfortable, like an act of courage, if we have to say no to something, but actually if we do and we stay in our integrity, then we build trust massively. And I never got questioned again when we were talking about deadlines because people knew I deliver with my team, because you know, the thing I did was I was talking to all team members involved and we found a deadline where everybody was standing behind, so we made things work and having this trust was definitely worth the coach.

Speaker 1: 5:28

Yeah, I think being able to communicate is really, you know, powerful and gets the point across and make sure you're on the same page. I know previously I lived in Japan and it's interesting how the cultures are different in different areas. When we'd ask for things, they always wanted to try to, you know, make sure they were pleasing and things like that. So it kind of agreed to everything and sometimes it was not possible. So you're like, oh, can you get it done this week? Yeah, yeah, and then it wouldn't get done that week.

Speaker 1: 6:00

You're confused and so I was out there for three years and so the first year was kind of confusing. But you kind of learn along the way. They're just going to kind of agree to the things that are going on and you have to kind of learn to figure out like stop and pause and try to ask is this actually realistic? Can you help me understand? And so you can get through that communication because it'll kind of agree. So just different conflict of verse and the way that different people were raised, which I'm sure we'll get into as we go through. The next question I had was try to get a fun one. If your questions or your sorry, your values were a playlist, what would be the theme song that represents your core beliefs?

Speaker 2: 6:38

I do not have a specific song that comes to mind, but it would probably be something from Frank Sinatra, something with a little bit of melancholy, a little bit of sadness, a lot of hope, a lot of playfulness. You can hear it over and over again. Never gets boring.

Speaker 1: 6:57

Classic.

Speaker 2: 6:59

Yeah, definitely something like this.

Speaker 1: 7:01

Okay, Frank Sinatra.

Speaker 2: 7:03

What would be yours? Do you have one?

Speaker 1: 7:07

Boy. Mine would be. I don't know what the song would be, but something along the lines of, you know, being a little weird and dancing to my own drum. I think I've always kind of done it. I've never done it intentionally. It's something that I think is odd, because my little brother, many years ago, mentioned like that I always seem to do my own thing and don't really, you know, concern with what other people think, and I'd never really thought of it. I just kind of did whatever I wanted, and so I've always been a little weird, and so it would be something about being weird, which I don't even know if there's a song for that.

Speaker 1: 7:42

Yeah, I know, like as a kid you could do like those theme song things and try to pick one for you. I wish I could remember you know what the theme song was for my life. I know that I did one based on what the number one song was when you were born, and I think it was Santana. I forget what that song is called. It's the one with Santana and the guy from Matchbox 21 or Matchbox 11. I can't remember Rob Thomas, that's his name, anyway. So I think it'd be something like like that. I've always just kind of been a little bit unique and different and try to, you know, hopefully make the world better for everybody. And then the last question I had for you what's the most unusual or creative way you found to silence your inner critic?

Speaker 2: 8:28

one usual way. I think I'm more into effective ways that's good something I have learned is that you know the inner critic is. It's a mean one, doesn't matter if it's a he or she, but this thing never shuts up.

Speaker 2: 8:46

Sorry for my wording, no, that's good I think you know I don't get it silenced completely, but what I've learned is that we all do have it. It's completely normal. So it's not, and I think the the turning point for me was to learn that this is actually a voice in my head. Sounds weird, but it's not me, you know, and I gave this voice a place, so that's maybe a good tip for the listeners too, when I have this voice coming up or other voices.

Speaker 2: 9:17

I'm not, I'm mentally okay, so just to let everybody know about the voices in my head. But I imagine having a long, big table and every voice gets a place on this table and I consider them being consultants. So even though the critical voice is mean and harsh, sometimes there is a reason behind it and why we hear it so pretty often it refers back to situations we might not even remember consciously anymore, but it tries to protect us, to keep us safe. So I try to listen not to the mean things but to the reason behind and get the gold out of it. And then I hear I listen to all my consultants, the big tech with all the voices, and, like a CEO, you have all your consultants, you have all the experts and you're listening to their advice and then I'm making my decision, which is the right decision for me, and sometimes I take them in account, sometimes I don't.

Speaker 1: 10:18

Yeah, I think that's pretty similar to like the reason we have fear and other things.

Speaker 1: 10:23

I think that's something I'd love to do an episode on at some point, because we have fear built in, because we used to be caveman, we needed to avoid danger, we needed to not get hurt, and so I think a lot of times we are freaked out and scared to try new things and, you know, lose our income and try a new job or leave a relationship because it feels comfortable, and all those things are built in from you know, way, way back in the day.

Speaker 1: 10:49

But I think you know you got to take in all the information, like you said, and then make the best choice. Fear might be one of those things at the table, but I think you got to weigh all the different things, because I think a lot of times we look at the here and now and it's like, oh it's, it's scary now, but if you are in an uncomfortable job or relationship and then you know five or 10 years, you get to look back and realize your life is, you know, a hundred times better than you could have imagined, even though it was scary when you took that first step. Now that you've made the steps and now you have a better life. So that is interesting. It's interesting how you know deep rooted and how far back that goes with fear and other things.

Speaker 2: 11:26

I have to share something here, because something that I've learned and that was a seriously a game changer is it's like, as we are designed, as you said, our brain is actually not designed to make us happy. That's not our brain's task. Our brain is in charge of keeping us alive and you know when you're in a really bad situation bad job, bad relationship, whatever it is but you are still alive. Your brain achieved its job. You know, it knows. Okay, I know everything that is coming. It's not comfortable, it's really bad, but we are surviving in this. So we're gonna stay here, because as soon as we move and things are gonna change, I don't know if I will be able to keep you alive. And then I'm getting you know all these nervous things, life and then I'm getting you know all those nervous things and your brain doesn't like this. So our brain was never designed to make us happy. It's designed to keep us alive. No-transcript.

Speaker 1: 12:22

That's a good note. Yeah, different things for different outcomes. I guess If you need the logical and the you know keeping you alive, you go with the brain, but other times you got to go with the heart, which I guess goes back to your point on the consultants at the table. Like which one are you going to? Maybe you got to listen to both, take the information as, make the best decision and then move forward. And maybe sometimes it is the brain and other times maybe the heart.

Speaker 2: 12:46

Yes, definitely.

Speaker 1: 12:48

So to finish up the warmup, I wanted to see if you have a question for me.

Speaker 2: 12:52

Yeah, I would love to know. I think we will talk a little bit about boundaries what is your personal experience with setting boundaries, saying no, does it come easily, naturally to you, or is it a challenge? Is it always a challenge or sometimes? And what do you think? Why is it like it is?

Speaker 1: 13:10

yeah. So I would say I'm probably awful at this. Um, I love helping people so I'm definitely in like the people pleasing and I think way too much on you know what people are thinking and things like that. Even though earlier I said I dance to the beat of my own drum, it really depends on the situation and the environment and the relationship and things like that. Even though earlier I said I dance to the beat of my own drum, it really depends on the situation and the environment and the relationship and things like that.

Speaker 1: 13:29

But yeah, I don't think this is an easy thing. I don't think it's something that's really ingrained. It must be.

Speaker 1: 13:34

You know, as you were brought up or things like that, I was alone with me and my mom as I was growing up, so it's kind of her and I against the world and you know struggling through different you know apartments and welfare and different things. So I think that that bond from the beginning probably makes it a little bit different when you know we had to kind of stick together and get through things to make it. So I think you know, as we talked about, the heart and the brain probably resorted more to, like the mind and you know surviving and getting through things. I'd love to do a better job so hopefully, with the advice I hear today, maybe I could do a little better job. But I'd like to say it doesn't probably come naturally. I don't think I think this is something that's kind of taught and ingrained as you go along, because I think we probably resort to surviving and just pushing on until you know you have an aha or some type of moment where you wake up, like you said, and and try to make that change.

Speaker 2: 14:26

That's what I would think thank you so much for sharing this with me. It's so interesting for me to always get the insight how this works for other people yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 14:36

So we'll continue a little bit more on the setting healthy boundaries. Can you share a time when establishing a boundary transformed a challenging relationship or situation in your life?

Speaker 2: 14:50

Yes, there are a lot of. I'm going to think about the one to pick. I would say it changed the relationship. That changed the most is the relationship I have to my partner, because the more close, the more intimate a relationship is, the more difficult it becomes to say no. Also, the more transformative and a good way it becomes.

Speaker 2: 15:14

I have been 15 years ago. I've been the absolute prime example of a people pleaser. So I would say yes even before you've asked me, and I have learned to, in a kind way, very clearly and kindly express what I feel and what I want. And that doesn't mean everybody has to accommodate my wishes, my needs, my wants. But being able to show up authentically and vulnerably and, you know, have a little bit of courage, it's an act of courage to show who you are, to say I'm hurt, actually, I'm sad, or I feel lonely or there is something I need, instead of oh, I'm having everything together, everything is perfect.

Speaker 2: 15:51

Yes, of course you know that changes a relationship because so often people who are people pleasing and saying yes all the time, they think they need to do this to build relationships, to not be rejected and abandoned and all these things, whereas in fact not being honest and authentic hinders saying yes, always hinders a true and mutual connection, because only in the moment when I show myself and I'm vulnerable and I'm human and I'm you know, then I'm kind of. In German we say you can get a grip on people, and it means you can, you can really see them, you can start to feel them. They become more real on an emotional level and that actually enables the other person to decide do I want to give her what she asked for? Can I bring to the table what she needs? Is it? Are we on the same page? And this truly transforms our relationship deeply.

Speaker 1: 16:50

Yeah, and that's one of the core reasons I think I started the show. I think we have stigmas and a lot of bad thoughts of different things, so I think mental health as a as a whole is seen as this negative thing, as some form of weakness. And so I remember I wanted to start the show and I went to a suicide prevention class at work and they brought in a guy named Robert Swanson. He's retired now but he goes around and he shares this story and he's walking through the story of this person that attempted suicide not once but twice, was not successful, had kids, had a family, and then as the story develops you realize that it's him. So he's telling his own personal story and so at the end he said one of the things I get asked all the time is how could you get up there, how could you share this story, how could you be vulnerable? That seems really awkward and whatnot. And like his answer I think I'll remember for the rest of my life. He said if I help one person, it's all worth it, and so I think that's something that's super powerful, because we see this vulnerability as weak and opening up is weak, but that's power. He gets up there gets on that stage and it's probably saved. You know, however many people, even if it's only one I mean one human saved is already a massive value. So I hope that people start to understand that mental health is important, getting taken care of is important and really, you know, vulnerability is super important.

Speaker 1: 18:23

I remember, you know, being in a leadership position when I took one of my first areas. You know there seems to be a gap between the leader and the people and they're thinking you have everything squared away and you have everything figured out. And it wasn't until I jotted down some notes and I'd been in there for a few months. I came in, you know, I open up and say I've lost most of my grandparents. And you know I've gone through a divorce and I do, you know, shared custody and all these things. And I lost my dad, you know, a few years ago.

Speaker 1: 18:53

And I go through these things and it's like not to be this negative, nancy, and bring everyone down, which I don't do it immediately Cause I don't want to like freak. You know the new section out right off the bat. So I do the skim, the wave tops at the beginning and then, three or four months in, go a little bit deeper. But I hope to make that connection because I know, you know, we have a policy where we say open door policy for the leaders but like if they're so disconnected you never really want to go.

Speaker 1: 19:19

So I hope I bringing up some of those things, opening up a little bit, being a little vulnerable, like I'm just a human too, like I'm in a different position, I have a different role, I look at things a little bit different. But after that, like human to human, I'm not saying I've seen everything. It's just a bridge, that gap. So if you want to come in, sit down, let's figure out, like, do you just want to vent and get all this stuff out and go away, or do you want to try to solve it? We can start making phone calls and whatnot. But I think vulnerability is so powerful when it's not seen that way. Unfortunately it's just one of those old thoughts, right?

Speaker 2: 19:54

Yes, absolutely. You know I always say trust is not a one way route. If I want you to trust me, I need to have the courage to start trusting you and give you something of me. You know to let go of the perfect facade, of the perfect image. And you know the people who use our openness or vulnerability to judge us. They will judge us anyway, no matter what we do, no matter what we say, even if we are completely perfect.

Speaker 2: 20:23

I mean there, there are people out in this world and that was an aha moment for me too who think the 90s supermodels, claudia Schiffer, she's ugly. And I think, yeah, okay, if somebody finds Claudia Schiffer ugly, okay. So don't even try to make everybody happy, because no way. And I think it's for those who do not judge us for being vulnerable for them, it allows, for them, it allows, you know, it gives this feeling of I'm not the only one, I'm not weird, I'm not enough in some way, I'm not insufficient or there's nothing wrong with me, because it seems that other people have the same challenges. So maybe I'm just human, maybe we are all just human on a path called life without the manual.

Speaker 1: 21:08

maybe you have any advice? Like no, not really. Like, try your best to keep them alive and you know, whatever you feel you know is right at that given time, go for it, because you're gonna hear you know you got to wrap them. Don't wrap them, put them on their back, put them on their side. Everyone's got their own. So if you feel that's good, you know, then go with it, because I know, like the big one I remember is the like co-sleeping, like, oh, they should be in the bed or not in the bed, in the bassinet, like, if you feel comfortable and you can take care of it in whatever way, just do it. Because there's no.

Speaker 1: 21:52

I mean, there's been plenty of books written on parenthood, but I don't know if any of them have it all, all squared away or all right, it's just whatever works at the time. That, and I feel like they flip it all the time, even with us as adults. I feel like they flip it all the time, even with us as adults. I feel like I've heard like, oh, red wine's good for you, it's not good for you. And then, like, chocolate was good for you, and then it wasn't good for you, and oh my gosh, we can't even figure out what's uh, what's right or not?

Speaker 2: 22:15

and you know I think it comes down to, we are all so different even though we have so much in common. But with the children I need to laugh so hard because I thought you know, as a coach and as learning, so much about the inner child and you know healthy development, I thought I'm a pro of raising kids before I even got one. And then I became a mom and you know, my daughter turned everything, really everything, upside down. The moment I think, no, I got it, I figured it out. Then she changes, she grows whatever it is, and I start from zero. And I think, no, I got it, I figured it out. Then she changes, she grows whatever it is, and I start from zero. And I think you know what works for me.

Speaker 2: 22:50

And that applies to everything, not only our children, but we as humans. You know, with eating patterns, some people need more protein than others and we're so individual and we need to take this into account. The same with boundaries. You know, what works for me might probably not work for you, and it's about figuring out what's the right thing for me and how does it work. We can share our experiences, but at the same time, I think it's important to stay open that other people have a different background, different characteristics and therefore different experiences and different things that might work for them.

Speaker 1: 23:31

I think that's another good example. You were talking about not worrying about what other people think, because I know parenthood is funny. You have people that aren't parents yet and we give the tablet or do different things, and people will be like I would never give my kid a tablet. I'll say, okay, well, you, you go ahead and have one and then you know they want your attention 24, seven and you know you'll see if you could make it and how long you can make it before you need to give some TV or something so you can have a moment to yourself.

Speaker 1: 24:00

But yeah, it's always funny from the outside and just so funny how the kids are so different. Like I remember, you know, having the girl and the girl would, like, you know, slowly get down and like slide off the couch and be safe and, you know, make sure she got her feet on the ground. And the boy just tries to walk off the couch of, like face first, like off the end, like one years old. You can just tell immediately like they're nothing the same and that's all the way back to when they could barely walk. You're immediately like this is not the same. So whatever rule I had for this one is not going to work for the other one. Yeah, I wanted to ask you a question, so I definitely, you know, struggle with the people pleasing, so what advice would you give to someone who struggles with guilt or fear when saying no?

Speaker 2: 24:46

would you give to someone who struggles with guilt or fear when saying no? So the first thing I would advise is train yourself to not say yes instantly. I give you a good phrase that you can use in nearly every occasion. Just say something like thank you for asking, I need to check my schedule and give yourself some time. So now you have one time that you can use to feel under your body, what does exactly feel uncomfortable? Do you feel any tension? What are your worries coming up? What's the story behind it? And that gives you time to find out what you truly want and what you're also capable to deliver or not deliver. And it also gives you time to create an answer that is honest, that says what you want to say, but does it in a way that's kind enough for the situation and the relationship you have. You know you can say no in so many ways. You can even say no without saying no.

Speaker 2: 25:48

I have an example for this one okay, I was gonna ask yeah, give yourself the gift of time to craft a phrase that feels aligned, where you can go back to the other person and just give them your answer and, at the same time, be prepared to receive pushback, because if you have been the one saying yes, always people expect you to say yes and when you start saying no, they're like wait, what Nate is saying no, I didn't expect this. Nate, are you serious? Do you mean what you say or do you just have a mood?

Speaker 2: 26:28

So let me try again, and that's not even mean or toxic or with bad intention. This is just completely normal human behavior and you can take this time to prepare for your pushback too. And then, when you go back to the interaction, you're feeling very well equipped. You are feeling much more centered and calmer. So it might still feel a little bit uncomfortable if it's the first time, because things we've never done, things we are learning they normally don't feel comfortable in most cases yeah so don't forget that.

Speaker 2: 27:06

But you're very well equipped and it probably gets much easier with this one yeah, you gotta gotta do it.

Speaker 1: 27:13

Practice makes perfect. So this question is kind of similar, but, uh, maybe just word a little bit different. How can boundaries empower us to protect what matters most without feeling selfish or unkind?

Speaker 2: 27:26

I love this question. It's so juicy. So you know. The first thing is I always start with defining personal values when I work with a client. So here I'm referring to the three to five most important personal values.

Speaker 2: 27:46

So think about freedom or security, and we can take this to a level where we can create a practical example. So if you are an employee, you have more security because you know when you're going to work, you know how much you are expected to work and you know exactly what you're going to be paid at the end of the month. That's a lot of security. At the same time, you do not have a lot of flexibility. You need to take orders, you need to serve in the bigger context of the company, which might not always align to your own values. So maybe you are someone who is okay with not knowing exactly how much money you're going to make at the end of the month, but you prefer the flexibility to be there for your children when they need you. Maybe you're the one who's getting up in the middle of the night and wants to work, and not on a regular schedule. So in this case, freedom is more important for you and we can use these scenarios to find out and discover our personal values.

Speaker 2: 28:46

So when I now come into a situation where I notice something is off, that's a clear sign. Okay, a boundary is needed. And you said boundaries, and that's very, very well said protect something. They always protect something. They might protect our time, our money, our energy, sometimes our mood. You know there are so many things. Boundaries create safe spaces. They protect resources.

Speaker 2: 29:11

I always say so when I notice something is off. And I have my values, you know, at hand, then I can check in. What do I actually need to protect here? Is it maybe just my mood? You know, having this friend who's calling you every single day to complain about everything and life and everything is so terrible and you know, after the phone call you're like, oh gosh, I need a couple of minutes for myself. There you're just protecting your mood and your energy, you know, but it's worth it. So when you know exactly what you are protecting and why it is important that you protect this, then it doesn't feel so mean and selfish anymore.

Speaker 2: 29:52

And the next thing is it's about the way we communicate them. I can communicate about a very harsh and in a very rejecting way, and I can also communicate it in a way that it builds bridges and makes the other person feel seen. So, as an example, with a friend calling you know, we can say something like I really appreciate and love that, I'm a person of trust for you and you're calling me when you want to chat about something, but I have the impression that you are very dissatisfied with certain things in your life and I know that's not a good place to be. So how can you change this instead of complaining and making it even worse?

Speaker 1: 30:36

Wow, that's way different, isn't it? You could just say stop calling me.

Speaker 2: 30:39

Yeah, and you know that can save a relationship. And in this scenario you said no without even saying no yeah there it is.

Speaker 1: 30:51

That's good. So for the values, there's so many things out in the world. I feel like at this given time there seems like there's more pulling at us in different directions than like ever. It feels like we got kids and family and friends and work and things like that. How do you sit down with people and get them to narrow those things down? Because I feel like if you ask somebody their values, they're probably going to say friends, family and something like right off the bat. But how do you get them to get more true with themselves?

Speaker 2: 31:20

So if somebody is saying friends and family, I would ask if you can't have both and you need to decide for one, which one would it be? So there are several different ways to find this out, and actually it's a very fun thing to do. The first thing I recommend is just write down all the values that are coming to your mind. So don't start searching for value list in the Internet, because you will find a thousand and they just might trigger your brain into the formal thing. Just write down what comes to your mind, because that's your life, that's your relationship with values you have and that's the one that counts. And over a period of time, maybe the next day, look at your list and then start to cross out half of them. And you know very often when we need to decide do I go for friends or do I go for family? What do I value higher? Then we will find out where our true priorities lie.

Speaker 1: 32:22

Yeah, one thing it made me think of earlier is I go on these runs and they're guided runs, so there's a coach. He talks in your ear. They're by Nike. I hate running, but this is the only way I've been able to slightly enjoy running. Coach Bennett, he's one of my favorite coaches. He actually has his own podcast now.

Speaker 1: 32:41

But one of the things he talks about is a recovery run, and in the recovery run no one wants to do them because they're not fun, they're not sexy. Everyone wants to do the long run or the fast run or the cool runs, but really the majority of your run should be recovery. And then you sprinkle in the other ones, and one of my favorite things that you talked about was that protecting it's an active thing, it's a thing that you do. It doesn't just happen, and so one of the ones he talks about is defining the word recovery. So he looked it up in the dictionary and it says to regain something that was lost or stolen, so you have to go and get it and recover. Recovery doesn't, I think. Sometimes we think, oh well, I just sit on the couch or I'll do this and like recovery will come towards you.

Speaker 1: 33:24

I think in both these, the recovery and the protect. It's an action, it's a verb, it's something you go and do. It's not going to just happen if you don't protect your time. It's just going to keep getting taken. In the same way, if you don't recover, you're not going to be ready for those runs and things. So I guess slightly different, but it made me think of the same thing where, like, you need to go and do it, so someone's like you know, not sure what to do, you need to take the step forward and try to get after these things. They don't just come to you and so I love the regain, something that was lost or stolen. You got to recover and get after it.

Speaker 2: 33:57

That's absolutely beautiful, and something that comes to my mind here is that when we come to this world and we grow up I see this with my daughter she's four in the meantime and children can say no very strongly. They know exactly what they do not want. So we have all been there. You know saying no, I don't want that. It's natural. But we've been trained and conditioned to not hurt other people's feelings, to put their needs and their feelings above our own. And you know we let this become too big. It's going to steal our happiness. It's going to steal things that are as important as our purpose in life, as the love we have to give. This is seriously a huge thing.

Speaker 1: 34:40

saying no can change and transform your life so much so with the people that you've had as your clients and things like that. Have you seen a theme Is it work that kind of drives that, Because I feel like management and being directed to do stuff. Does it come from that? Do you see more people that are self-employed or is it just kind of all over the board? What happens between being a kid and then becoming an adult and then all of a sudden we got to take care of everyone but ourselves?

Speaker 2: 35:10

I love this question so much. So I think the first thing is it's all over the board. I've seen it more with people who are top performers, high achievers, people who are ambitious. I think it comes from a trained pattern and you know it comes from childhood. So I know, as parents, we probably do this by ourselves once in a while, even if we're not proud of. But behave well, don't be too loud, don't be too noisy, don't be as you are, because right now that's not good enough. So please, you know, reduce your own needs and accomplish a little bit more the needs of those around you. That's's standing behind. Even if it's not said directly, you know it's indirectly communicated. And if we have parents who, who are critical, who wants us to, you know, these children who behave always very, very well, you know, depending on their age, that's just not normal. A three, a four or five year old is not a little adult, not yeah crazy, loud little creatures who?

Speaker 2: 36:19

are exploring the world, and while doing this, they sometimes can get pretty much on our nerves that's funny.

Speaker 1: 36:26

My son just got finished up with flag football, so american football, and it was kind of funny because they're six-year-olds running around the field and the coach would get kind of frustrated. He's like why are they not listening? Why aren't they running these plays? I'm like because they're six, they don't know plays, they don't know what they're doing, they don't even know what positions they're in. So I asked my son I'm like do you know what position you're holding? He's like I don't know. I was like do you know if you're on offense or defense? No, like he doesn't even know what's going on. So yeah, I thought that was pretty funny. He's like it seemed like he wanted them to just sit and like you know, listen, and like they were high school level or whatever level. But I'm like they're not running plays, they're running around like crazy. They don't even go the right direction, they run into their own end zone and score on themselves. So I thought that was pretty funny.

Speaker 1: 37:14

But I wanted to transition over because one of my favorite quotes I've mentioned on the show a few times and unfortunately, you know, I've got to reiterate because I love it so much. I guess I've got to listen to it one more time, but one of my favorite quotes from Susan Scott in Fierce Conversations is you're having conversations all the time and sometimes they involve other people, and so she's talking about you know, talking to yourself and that inner critic. So I'd like to get a few more questions in there. What's a memorable time when you silenced your inner critic and proved it wrong?

Speaker 2: 37:48

One time was when I was in a gym class and it was so hard and I thought I don't want to suffer so much just for losing a couple of pounds. I hate this. And then the trainer she was like screaming at us you are doing this for yourself. I was like, actually, she's right, I'm doing this because I want to feel healthy, I want to feel fit, I just want to have this beautiful booty, you know.

Speaker 1: 38:17

It's for you, yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:18

And that was the moment where my inner critic said yeah, but it's so hard, and I thought be quiet, that just doesn't matter. It's an hour and you know we are going to be so proud afterwards. So in this case, just keep quiet road afterwards.

Speaker 1: 38:36

So in this case, just keep quiet, Boy. Yeah, that's a powerful one. Back to my runs, the coach that jumps in your ear. He's like, even if you do two minutes or whatever, getting up, getting your shoes on, getting out there, he talks a lot about runs have multiple purposes. Because people are like, oh yeah, it's just for running. But he's like it's not. You know, you process thoughts, you feel like you accomplish things. So he talks about every run has a purpose and then he kind of shift that into purposes because there's multiple things going on. So even if you just go around the block, you've gotten up, you've got the blood moving. So I think there's a lot of power in that. We've heard about, you know, like, making your bed in the morning. You accomplish something, you get things going.

Speaker 2: 39:19

Even though it's simple things, it gets you going for the day. Are there any specific techniques or exercises you use to reframe negative self-talk into empowering thoughts? Yeah, um, there's one thing that works wonders. If I have a massive negative assumption or self-talk like you're never gonna achieve x, x, write it down and then divide your piece of paper but you really need to do this in written form because it works differently with your brain than it does when we just contemplate about it. And on the other column, write down three examples that prove your first assumption wrong.

Speaker 2: 39:52

Like, for example, there was a time when I believed oh, you're not going to finish anything, because my dad, you know, when I didn't do what he wanted me to do, he said you never finish things. So that was something that I started to believe about myself and I wrote it down. And on the other side, I wrote down things like oh, I've actually finished my skill, I finished my studies, I have finished so many things. So when I look at this, then I notice that there are specific things that I do not finish because I don't want to finish them, which is my choice of life, and that is totally okay. I'm not a person who doesn't finish things. That's actually not true. So the first advice I have is seriously write it down and prove yourself wrong.

Speaker 1: 40:39

That's awesome. Yeah, that's a good example. I wanted to ask earlier and I missed it, but I love stories. My favorite thing is storytelling. I think that really helps us and I think that goes back to the caveman days and things like that. That's how we pass knowledge and things like that. And so could you share a story of a time when living in alignment with your values or a client helped them overcome that difficult choice? They went back, reflected on their values and it got them through.

Speaker 2: 41:05

Yeah, I can remember one client. It was a man. He was employed as a consultant. He was very, very successful, so he was good at his job. He liked his job, he liked his colleagues, he liked the projects. He made a lot of money and we were talking about. He actually wanted to do something differently. He wanted to do something with a specific purpose, to make the world a better place, and he wanted to build his own company doing this. And he said to me Nadia, you know, when I decide to move away from my employer and then do my own thing, you know I have a fiance, I'm gonna get married, we're gonna have a child and we drive this beautiful BMW, and this BMW will probably be taken away. So there is a price to pay for this and I'm not ready, if I'm able or willing to pay this.

Speaker 2: 41:56

So, we work through this because you know the choices. Very often, it seems our people are telling us it's so easy, you just make a choice and you follow through. But you know every choice has a price tag. You know if I choose yes, it has a price tag, and if I choose no, it has a price tag. You know if I choose yes, it has a price tag and if I choose no, it has a price tag too.

Speaker 2: 42:15

So in this scenario, we worked through the fears of in fact, it was not thinking, oh, I'm not able to build the company, and was more about I will not be able to provide financially as my family is trusting me. So in this case, very often it's about finding and creating a plan that works in these specific circumstances, instead of falling back into the generalization like if I do this I don't have the money, if I do that, I can't. You know it's very general, the things that our critics are telling us, but if we get into detail then quite often we can recognize that we are rather talking to a part of us that's absolutely scared, instead of someone telling us what we can and cannot achieve.

Speaker 1: 43:04

Yeah, that makes sense. So, speaking of living authentically, how do you navigate the tension between being true to yourself and meeting the expectations of others?

Speaker 2: 43:13

I think in the meantime I got pretty good at being true to yourself and meeting the expectations of others.

Speaker 1: 43:16

I think in the meantime I got pretty good and being able to disappoint people.

Speaker 2: 43:19

Being okay with it? Yeah, absolutely Okay, you know. The first thing is I learned to be alone, which isn't a bad thing, so I enjoy. I mean, with a four-year-old I hardly have alone time, but if I do, I enjoy alone time where I can do whatever I want, or do nothing at all. Nobody wants anything from me, so that's a good thing. And it's also with a business and a child.

Speaker 2: 43:45

Time is very, very precious and very short. There's never enough time for all the things we want to do. So that's the resource and I'm very aware of the resource I very often protect, because if I get into situations where I, you know, where I lower my energy because I hate being there, or I just get into a bad mood because of certain things, people, whatever it is, then that's costing me time and efficiency. And you know we don't have unlimited time. So I own this one to me, that I use my time for the things that matter.

Speaker 2: 44:21

And you know, something I learned is it's really a difference. Whom do I disappoint? So you know, if I disappoint a 40, 50 year old grown man or woman, yeah, exactly, you know you. I disappoint a 40, 50 year old grown man or woman? Yeah, exactly, you know you're a grown person so you can deal with this. You're responsible for your life, for your, you know, for your choices, for whatever. And if you're making bad choices, whatever it is, it's your responsibility. I'm not your therapist.

Speaker 2: 44:47

So if I'm disappointing my daughter, that's differently because she's still little, she's still dependent. So in quite a couple of scenarios I would choose to not disappoint her. But you know the thing is, when we make an active choice here, then it's not costing us. So if I choose to not do what I want to do on this weekend but instead do something that creates a memorable experience for her, then this fills up my own cup and makes me happy and connects me to her. So in the end I haven't lost time, I haven't lost energy, I haven't lost anything. I've gained a lot of things. But that required me to work through all the layers that are involved in deciding if I say yes or no. And sometimes it still happens. I think for all of us, no matter how an expert you are boundaries. Sometimes you're saying no and you're disappointing people and it hurts a little bit. Sometimes that happens and sometimes it's a thing we just need to work through.

Speaker 1: 45:57

I would love to tell you something differently, but yeah, that's it. I think that goes back to what you said earlier. There's cause and effect, right, you do something, and there's that cause and there's second and third order effects. And so I think you mentioned it perfectly when you said it's not always easy to just make the decision and see it through and it's just all good. I mean, there's still going to be second and third order things. You know ripple outward.

Speaker 1: 46:16

So you need to be okay and solid into the decision you made because, like you said, you took in the information, you made the choice and then at that point you got to own whatever comes out of it, because there are going to be things. But I think that is a good reminder where we want things to be easy. And oh, because I looked back at my values, it's going to work out perfectly and no one's going to get hurt. It's like no, you went back and you focus on what was important to you. It doesn't mean it was going to be perfect, it just mean that's what you're supposed to do and you know the grown people can get over it yeah so yeah, I think that's good.

Speaker 2: 46:49

Life is life thing. So no matter how well I prepare my decision, how aligned my decision is, in fact, I never know 100% how it turns out in the end.

Speaker 1: 47:02

Absolutely Well. I'd like to try to bring it all together, nadia. So how does setting boundaries, identifying values, overcoming your inner critic in harmony to create a fulfilling, authentic life? How does it all come together?

Speaker 2: 47:16

It's a circle. It comes together as a circle, you know, it strengthens each other and it allows us to intentionally create a life that feels true to us. So we've talked about bad relationships. We've talked about bad jobs, and I think we all can relate to a situation where we woke up and thought why the hell am I in this job? What the hell happened to my life? Why am I with a person who makes me feel miserable and hating life?

Speaker 2: 47:46

And that's a very, very sad and concerning place to be, and it's actually wasting our most precious resource, time, because with this time, we could have created something that's beautiful, maybe not always easy, not perfect, but beautiful in its own way. So it comes together as allowing us to create a life that's not a perfect life, but that's our unique, true and authentic vision of who we are, and I think who we are is a big part of the magic of the universe, a part of God, however you want to refer to it, but there is something unseen, beautiful, magically wondrous within each of us and that has to be expressed.

Speaker 1: 48:34

Absolutely yeah, magically wondrous within each of us and that has to be expressed. Absolutely yeah. I think that's the perfect reminder. I think if anyone's out there, you know, stuck in those situations where you're just uncomfortable, obviously there's going to be some discomfort in life. As we said, there's no manual.

Speaker 1: 48:46

It's not perfect, but if it's a little too much than just a little discomfort, I mean, I think you got to take that step, leap of faith. You know, make sure you're not just winging it. You know, if it's your job or finances, make sure you're not just, you know jumping off the cliff. And you know making a crazy decision. But think back and you know, you know, in the future, in five and 10 years where you're never where you thought you could possibly be, things are awesome. You years where you're never where you thought you could possibly be, things are awesome. You know things are much better than you thought. Again, not perfect, like you said, but think of, you know, that change that you could have. If it's not comfortable, you're not where you know that you should be, then I say get after it. You know, try to figure something out. But, nadia, I wanted to give you the final takeaway. So what would you want listeners to take away from this wonderful episode?

Speaker 2: 49:32

I want you to take away the absolute certainty that you can learn to say no, and that you can. You know it's practice, so you don't have to accommodate everybody and everything in your life and losing yourself. You're absolutely required to be yourself, to bring into this beautiful life your beautiful, unique essence. And something I can promise and I can't promise a lot of things, but something I can definitely promise is that creating your authentic life by saying no to what not aligns to you is a practice. It becomes easier the more we train it, until one day it will be second nature. So if someone like me, who has been a prime example of a people pleaser, can say no absolutely comfortably without thinking about it, then I can guarantee you you can too, and you're absolutely entitled to do so.

Speaker 1: 50:28

Awesome. Thank you, nadia. I ask listeners, please provide feedback. Let me know what you think on Instagram, facebook, TikTok, youtube, buzzsprout, all over the place. Give me thoughts, comments. Let me know if you want to jump on the show, but I love you all See ya, thank you.