MindForce: Mental Fitness, Leadership & Life Stories
Welcome to MindForce: Leadership, Life Stories & Mental Fitness — hosted by Nate Scheer, a Christian dedicated to exploring the power of faith, resilience, and personal growth. This podcast dives deep into the real-life stories behind leadership, healing, and navigating adversity with purpose. Through honest conversations and biblical perspective, Nate connects with guests who have overcome challenges, built mental strength, and found meaning in the mess. Whether you're in the military, ministry, or simply on a journey to lead yourself and others well, MindForce will encourage you to lead with heart, live with hope, and grow through every season.
***The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individual(s) involved and do not reflect the official policy or position of the United States Air Force, the Department of Defense, or any other agency of the United States Government.***
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MindForce: Mental Fitness, Leadership & Life Stories
When Kindness Catches You Off Guard: The Science Behind Compassion w/ Teresa Ramirez
Hi there, I'm Nate Shear, your guide on Mindforce. We're all about love, life and learning, because what's on your mind really does matter. Today we have Teresa Ramirez, and today we'll be talking about tips on how to be kind in difficult situations. Some of these examples include changing the way you look at things, catching someone off guard with some humor, not engaging. Is it more important to be right or to be kind? We'll start with the easy stuff, the four W's. Who are you?
Speaker 2:Who am I? I am Teresa Ramirez, and I used to be in the corporate world for 30 years, took care of my parents for about five and then started on kindness. That's perfect so what do you do? Nope, this is what I do. I go, I teach parents, or encourage parents to become the CEOs of their family and teach their children to be kind. As CEO, like in a corporation, you know they set the values and the philosophy and it filters down through. The company Works the same way with the family.
Speaker 1:Perfect, you took that and translated it over. I love when things you know happen in different sections, but it can be applied across all sorts of different things.
Speaker 2:Next one is why are you here? I am here just to spread kindness and to let get the word out that, yes, we can change your corner of the world, one ripple of kindness at a time.
Speaker 1:That's great. And the last one where in the world are you calling from?
Speaker 2:I am calling from Chile, Cincinnati, Ohio in the United States.
Speaker 1:Oh, ohio going through some snow and all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, we had 10 inches last week and we're not used to that much, so a couple inches were good. Anything over that we're like my goodness.
Speaker 1:I'm looking forward to the conversation on kindness. I had one yesterday on men's mental health and it's just so interesting because we were talking about how, as a man, you have to be strong and pull yourself up by your bootstrings and you know any emotion and things like that. So kindness and whatnot, it'll be really interesting. I'm looking forward to this one. So we'll start with a little bit of warm up, try to get things going. What's a moment when someone's kindness completely surprised you or impacted you?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I think, yeah, when someone's kind to me, I'm so used to doing acts of kindness, so when it reverses and that's the way it's supposed to work I still get, like you know, the proverbial buy the cup of coffee. And I do do that every time. I go into the coffee shop and lo and behold, someone bought my coffee one day and I was just blown away and it was so simple, Something so simple, you know. And I think it's funny that I still get blown away when someone's kind to me, because this is what I do and the whole premise is once you start being kind to others, they're kind to you, it's a ripple effect. So when they are kind to me, it is kind of funny that I do get shocked.
Speaker 1:I think that's a super important reminder, though, that things are the smaller things. The last couple episodes I've had, we've hit on it and you know, even though it's from completely different fronts and things like that, we want these huge things that we have to go and do in a project. It's just the little things I think we over. You know, we're like making things more complicated than they need to be. Be nice, hold the door. You know, push that kindness out and you'll ripple out. So if anyone's listening, like, just be nice, I was just going to add to that.
Speaker 2:That simplicity is that smile and a hello. And I have a story a friend, he retired, got bored, went to work in a parking garage, said it was the best job he's ever had, that he's having a ball. And he went on vacation for a couple weeks and when he came back he said people were yelling at me because they had bad days for two weeks because I wasn't there to smile and say good morning. And he was, like you know, just shocked at what an impact he had and all he did was smile and say good morning to these people. And he came to me and he was so funny. He came to me and he said you kindness, lady, you know, you tell me it's simple, you tell me it's easy, he goes. I didn't really buy into it until I experienced it. So just buy into it everybody. It does make a difference.
Speaker 1:And I think you never know. I think that's one thing that's important. Like, you do it to feel better and push that out into the world, but you're not necessarily looking for anything in return, right? So you pass the person, you give the smile, you don't know if that does anything or that completely changed that person's day, but you need to do it and push it out there. But, yeah, you might not ever hear. You know he doesn't take the leave of absence and he never hears. You know how impactful that was, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. So sometimes you don't get to necessarily see the words you read. Next question I had for you is you can describe kindness, since you are the kindness lady, in one word other than kindness. What would it be and why?
Speaker 2:In one word. I don't have one word.
Speaker 1:Phrase.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just going to have to go with a phrase and it's. People will think again. It's kind of cheesy, but it's it's right. Being kind is treating people the way you want to be treated and lifting people up. If you're not doing those things every day, with every encounter, then you're not being kind. And I'm not saying I'm guilty. There are days when we're all in our head space and we're not even looking around. We're on our phones and you don't pay attention. It happens to me too and I do this as a lifestyle. But if you're doing it more intentionally, yeah, that's, that's important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And the last question to warm up is what's the kindest thing someone has ever done for you during a difficult time?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, and it goes back. I was going through a divorce and I just was struggling A lot of people do Someone just came up and gave me a hug. It's a complete stranger, because I evidently had it all over my face one day and they just said it's okay, everything's going to be okay. And I just remember looking at them going yeah, it is. But it was again something very simple and I never saw that person again and they probably don't know what they did for me that day because I was pretty low that particular day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so interesting, like I mentioned before. I mean, you might not ever know. It's interesting. You just got to do what's right and you know, try to stay off our phones, stay attentive, stay in the present and take care of people. Well, before we get into the three. Oh, sorry Go ahead.
Speaker 2:I was going to add to that is that with that person they had to have some guts to hug a stranger. They didn't just say hi, they actually hugged me and I said so. If you read the room that you know, take that, take that risk, as we say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. It's those situations that feel uncomfortable and you're not sure and you know she, she knew what felt right and, you know, did what she needed to. That's good, but yeah, I could definitely see that being difficult. And then, before we start in the three main pillars that you have, I'd like to know if you have a question for me.
Speaker 2:I have a question for you.
Speaker 1:How do you work with people that are struggling mental health wise? I know you said you had a couple level. There's a lot of different problems and a very complex problem set Wicked hard, as people, I think in Massachusetts, say. But the thing I've found throughout these different interviews and talking to people is always connection, sharing stories and having connection. I think when you get in a headspace, you isolate, you spiral downward, you think it's only you and humans have been around for way too long at this point for anything to happen to you and only you. It's probably happened to someone else and so I don't know what the solution is. I wish I had a solution, especially myself being active duty military. I mean we have like 22 suicides a day. It's a lot of problems with veterans and then assessing things, but my hope is the connection. That's why we're here, sharing stories and hopefully something that's said connects with somebody. But I think that's the only solution that I really know of is hearing things and then finding that connection someone else went through it and sharing the success. That's something I wish we did a much better job. Like in the military, we have to go to work and go to these briefings. We always talk about the warning signs and all the negative aspects of mental health and suicide awareness, but I wish we talked about the success afterwards.
Speaker 1:I went through a difficult time. I went through this terrible thing uh, you know, like divorce been there, that's a real joy. And uh, you know, you got to get through these different difficult things. But you got to get through these different difficult things. But you get to the other side and realize, hey, I'm still here, I'm good, I'm still pressing on. But for some reason we like to talk about how those warning signs keep an eye out for this and give away all their stuff and all these things. But like, can we talk about the, the people that bounce back and have the convertible they've always wanted or the family they always wanted or the position they always wanted? Really hone in on the success. So I think stories would be what I would say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing, is there? I want to go back to like prevention, thinking that way before the signs start, is there something to help get it? Stop it before you get there.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't think it's really there. I mean, I know we talk about like the lowest level and I think that's where that would be. You should have someone to vent to and a wingman like we say that a lot being, you know, air Force that's our term is wingman, but I just don't think it's executed very well. It is said, but we need to have better ability to make those connections and whatnot. We move a lot so you might be at a new location, you don't have those friends and so some of those things are kind of difficult. I think when people live in a hometown you have that support system and family and friends you've known forever. But when you're moving every couple of years, the support system isn't really there. So that lowest level it sounds great that you'd solve it before it gets bad, but if you don't have the lowest level, then it's kind of difficult.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I'm just thinking that you know with veterans, if you have never been in the military or experienced that, just get over it. I've heard people say this and I'm like never tell anybody that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unless you've lived it. That's one of those things like we immediately, like you know, go right into the basic training stories and you know, if you've lived it, even if it's a different service. I know you know we rag on each other a little bit Army and Air Force and whatnot, but there's just that bond where, if you can share stories from you know basic or deployment, some you know TDY, where you were in a condition that wasn't all that fun. It seems like the best stories always seem to be in conditions that aren't very, very good. But uh, I think that goes back to, like the resiliency aspect like I mentioned earlier. Like you got through it. It was awful, it was crazy, but I'm still here.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and sadly it makes you who you are today you don't get fun, but yeah, you don't get the resilience without going through the tough times.
Speaker 1:I think sometimes, like it's kind of a buzzword. Now it feels like resilience, like I need that, but it doesn't come for free. It comes from those difficult situations where you know you had three roommates and the house was crazy and all these different things. You know you had no money, you ate ramen.
Speaker 2:I don't know it's crazy, but I still cringe you gotta do what you gotta do craft macaroni and I was kind of going into some of that because with kindness, one of the things through my research that I found is there are studies that show being kind is nice, it's not just all fluffy and nice. Everybody goes, oh yeah, that sounds great. But there are studies that show it actually does something to you physically and if you and I exchange an act of kindness, your serotonin levels go up, and so do mine, and serotonin are our happy hormones. And so now for one act of kindness, you and I are happy. So things you know, the depression's less, the anxiety's less, we're doing better, but anyone in the room that observed it, their serotonin levels also go up.
Speaker 2:So from one act of kindness we've got a room full of happy people. And that's why I keep sitting carpet on the ripple, because it is, and we just need to focus. And I'm not saying, like we were talking earlier, don't do the big things, focus on the small things in your corner. And if each of us are doing that in our corner and creating those ripples, those ripples are eventually going to merge and create a wave of kindness across the country and around the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting, so, out of curiosity, you know what's? What, would you say, is the common misconception, the biggest myth behind kindness? Because I could see, like you said, rainbows and butterflies. That sounds great. But what is the biggest myth?
Speaker 2:I think that's one of the biggest myths is it's all rainbows and butterflies or I have to do this huge, huge, grand gesture. Smiling doesn't do anything and nobody cares. If I moved that shopping cart out of their space, yeah, but if you didn't, it would make a big deal to a mom with three kids in the car who has to get out and move that cart to have that coveted close spot. And I think people just don't realize, they don't take the time to think that and be intentional, that, yes, that makes a big difference. If you don't have anybody smiling and saying hello to you in a day, think about it. That'd be pretty awful. And if you don't, you know your arm's full of stuff. You're trying to get in the door and someone's not there to open it. You're trying to open it with your foot or your elbow and then someone comes along and opens it. It is just those, or I had one.
Speaker 2:I walk my dog a lot, so I have lots of dogs walking stories. But there is a strip mall along the bike trail and someone had to carry the their stroller up those steps. Would you like some help? And I just grabbed the bottom. She had the top only less than 30 seconds we had that puppy up there. She didn't have to struggle, she was, you know she was, she didn't have to do anything. She goes cute, but even you know she that just little people don't know she was so thrilled. Another quick, I'm sorry, come around the corner to the produce, and you know those lovely bags and this poor woman.
Speaker 2:she's standing there trying to open the bag. She's got the toddler in the cart screaming their head off and you can just see on her face. I have to get two things and we can get out of here. And you could just see that on her face. And before I could move, a gentleman came and took the bag from her and opened it and handed it back. The baby stopped crying and she was like you could. Just the weight of the world was lifted off her shoulders because somebody opened the produce. Yeah, I said that's the misconception. Those little things mean a lot to somebody.
Speaker 1:I think those are like the deepest memories.
Speaker 1:Our career field just sent out this email and it was like a New Year's resolution kind of thing and it was like a short newsletter and it basically said like reach out to someone in our career field that you haven't talked to in a while.
Speaker 1:So I reached out to one of my best friends, kyle Guthrie, and talked to him and it was interesting because we were both sharing stories from our first duty assignment together and I wanted to think of all these like large events. But both of us both ways, you know ironically thought of the time we went to go get coffee and these like smaller barbecues and whatnot. They weren't large events, but they're like four memories at this point where you know it was just an afternoon coffee and that was the way that we process and invented and got through a difficult year. And so I just thought it was funny because we both shared stories both ways and I looked at both of them. I was like these aren't even big events, these are small things that I remember and will remember forever. So I was trying to wrap my brain around this huge story and really I just needed the little stories that got us through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's funny you should say that because recently I did I've been invited by a corporation my core audience is parents, but everybody wants kindness and this corporation asked me to come in for a team building exercise and they were like OK, what do you want? I said no, no, we're keeping it simple. I want paper and pen and what I had them do because I have them do this different with kids, but I did it with adults I said you put your name on a piece of paper and put something positive you want to hear that day. So on one side, and then you're going to wad those paper balls up and throw them in the middle of the table and you're each going to go and grab one of those balls of paper and they have to then go to that person whose name's on the ball and say to them that thing they really wanted to hear today.
Speaker 2:And I do, I do with kids, I have them, I make it more of a project. It's a paper airplane and they put their name on one side and something they want to hear on the other. And then they throw. Kids love to do that, so they throw them all in the middle of their room and that's just like, and then it's a free for all to go pick out an airplane. But so either way, with adults and kids you can do all those things. But again I'll never forget the guy just staring at me going that's all you want. And I said it's all I need. And they thought it was great.
Speaker 1:They thought it was the greatest thing.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's the small things.
Speaker 1:So we'll move into your three pillars. The first pillar you selected was changing the way you look at things. How has changing your perspective helped you approach challenging situations with kindness?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will tell you one another story. I was having lunch with a friend and they were really busy and the server finally comes up have a pad, but finally comes up and says what do you want? That's exactly how she said it. And we're like, well, you know, we haven't been here in a while. We have a couple of questions, I don't know. I was told to come take your order. What do you want? And I'm like, oh gosh. So we placed our order things, we got what we needed and everything, and at the end my friend and I are sitting there because we're like you know, maybe we need to tell the manager what's going on. And then I'm like I got another idea. So we paid and we did tip her and on the receipt I put a smiley face and said you are designed to shine. We picked up her stuff, we went out, she chased us into the parking lot and she was crying and she said I really needed that today. I'm having a really bad day, what's it?
Speaker 1:are.
Speaker 2:I'm like and that was it. Then she turned around and went back into the restaurant. So you know, when people are yelling at you and doing things, it's rarely about you. It's about something that happened last week. This morning, clearly she had a bad morning. You know, something underlying is there. So that's why I said change your perspective. And we could have, we could have legitimately called over the manager and said she's not doing her job. You know, this is we were treated like crap. We didn't. I chose to do the kind route and it paid off and I just thinking thank goodness because all those customers after us got a little bit better person than we did.
Speaker 1:It's crazy how powerful perspective is. I love stories, so I'll share one that I like to tell.
Speaker 1:I was rushing in. I was taking my baby boy into daycare. He was a couple of years old and I went to go park at the child daycare center and someone had parked over the line and for some reason I was like I can't believe it. This person's so inconsiderate. Like I'm just human, my brain is going 100 miles an hour. I'm like built up anger.
Speaker 1:I didn't get to work at this point because you know I I do daycare before work, so it's just like an awful day and I'm like I just can't believe it.
Speaker 1:All these terrible thoughts of this person.
Speaker 1:I don't know this person, I don't know the car, but all of a sudden all these negative thoughts, and so I got to drop my son off and I come back to the parking lot and so in a few, few quick minutes I come back to my car and I inadvertently sidestep because they did, and that car is now gone and I am over the line.
Speaker 1:So now the next person sees me in the exact situation that I was so angry with this person just a few minutes ago. And I didn't have any ill intent, I didn't mean it at all, and so I just paused and thought for quite a while, because I feel like we read books and you can learn ways in so many different ways, but learning when it happens to you in real life, like I remember that forever, like now, I try to take the deep breath, don't think of what the person was trying to do or whatnot. Like they were probably rushing the same way I was rushing and they probably stepped over the same way I stepped over. So just pausing, taking a deep breath and not trying to put intent on anyone, I don't know what they were doing.
Speaker 2:No, and that is one of the things I teach. I teach pause and when you get to this point, I do teach the pause, what I call the pause or your pause, because that can be anything what works. That's the one thing that I do say. I am giving you the framework. You tweak it to make it work for you. So the pause, your pause, is that. So, whether it's, you know, sticky notes, alarm on your phone, whatever works, and one of the biggest things, I did a 21-day kindness challenge when I first started this and I got to a day. The challenge was no road rage.
Speaker 1:I have more comments on that than anything else.
Speaker 2:And I just went back and did a whole video and I said there is no room in your journey in kindness, for road rage. They're just not, but it evidently is very common and I was. I loved my horn. I will just tell you right now that my horn was my favorite thing. So for my pause, because I knew that was where I struggled, I put a big pink sticky note on, said stop and I no longer use my horn unless somebody's sitting at the light and they're on their phone and the light turns green.
Speaker 2:I do kind of did the polite the polite to say because they don't, they don't not purposely sitting there at the light for no reason, but their whole road rage thing has just been, has been funny, and but that helps. The pause helps there because you know I remember somebody goes. But they cut me off and I said they probably didn't see you. Like you said, you don't know that person in the parking lot. You, you didn't realize it and I know I had another fun story and this is where your humor might come in. But I was on an exit ramp at a freeway and guy in front of me gets out of his car and he is yelling and he's coming for me and don't ask me why I have something in my car. So I put it on. I put it on and waved. He couldn't stop fast and so I ran back to his car and I to this day wonder what did he when he got where he was going? What did he tell people about the crazy lady with the red nose?
Speaker 1:That is hilarious, and now I use it all the time I had gotten it.
Speaker 2:If you've ever heard of Patch Adams, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the doctor yeah.
Speaker 2:He introduced humor into medicine, more or less, yeah, and he always ran around with a red clown nose. So I bought it and put it in my car, forgot to take it inside. So that bought it and put it in my car, forgot to take it inside. So that's why it was sitting in my car.
Speaker 2:um, because I didn't know what I was going to do with it. Well, I use it often. Now you can use this when your kids are fighting, you put it on and then you get between them and they're like, and my kids roll their eyes going oh geez, she's at it again, but they stop fighting, huh.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. You could put them in the one big shirt or, I guess, put on a big red nose. Huh, interesting.
Speaker 2:I mean it does work. You know, after, like I said, my kids will just roll their eyes and say are you kidding me? She's doing it. Just don't do it in front of our friends don't embarrass us, we're trying to be cool.
Speaker 1:So within this pillar, the next question is what advice would you give someone give to someone struggling to see things differently during a conflict? They're just stuck in the conflict.
Speaker 2:And it's so hard. But you have to realize and I think this is something people forget and again, that's where the pause comes in People, personal pain. It's as unique as a fingerprint and you never know what someone is going through. So always, always, I always say be kind, really practicing that pause, and it's it takes practice. This isn't something that happens overnight. I've been doing this now for since 2018. For me it's easier, but I just it every day.
Speaker 2:I get up in the morning and say, okay, god, what kind intention do I have today? And you know, I look at my schedule and, okay, I bet I could do this. I told you we had 10 inches of snow and my son's car is not good in snow at all. So he asked me to drive him to work. So I did so he threw because you know it's so much snow that came really, really fast. So the streets were not cleared, so I said let's throw in a shovel just in case we get stuck. Well, we were fine. I got him to work, but on the way back there are people parked on the side of the street trying to dig their cars out so they could get to work. I did pull over and help a couple people shovel their car out. And that's practice. I didn't even think about it. I said I got to shovel, let me help.
Speaker 2:So I think, when people are really stuck, start focusing, try to focus Again. You got to practice that. Pause and try to focus. What can I do to make somebody else's day better? And it's not easy. I'm not telling you it is, because it happens. It still happens to me on occasion. So practice, pause and focus on where you can help somebody else. I think about here in the United States. California is on fire. I'm sure you've heard about it over there.
Speaker 2:And people are just, they've lost everything. Their life is literally, their life is in ashes. They and this is something my analogy is they don't even have a toothbrush. I do thank God now every morning for my toothbrush, but that's something we take for granted. We always have a toothbrush. Well, these people, their toothbrush is ashes, but for them, many of them, are coming out of the shop because I can't only imagine how horrible it is. They are coming out of the shop because I can only, I can't only imagine how horrible it is. They're coming out of the shop but they're doing something for their neighbors. They're checking on the elderly neighbor. Did they get out? Did their pets get out? You know, do they need this? I can take something to them. And that's a great example of how you take that I've lost everything. I'm in that cycle of I've lost everything. I'm depressed, the anxiety, yada, yada. And then you stop and said Mrs Joan Downs Street, I can go help her. And that brings you out of that cycle.
Speaker 1:That's so wild too. I mean, if you look at 9-11 or you look at these massively negative events like that mass shooting in la at the or not la at las vegas, at the country festival, or really any mass shooting, I guess, or anything like that, like people grab each other. They help each other like why does it take a very negative thing for people to help each other?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, it's sad. And a few months ago, north Carolina had the flood where their homes were literally. This was another thing I thought of. I'm standing across the street and the water, the wall of water comes, my house, my car, everything just floats away and I can't even imagine that feeling. But for them, no one could get to them, so they had to help themselves. And I remember some guy said I had a backhoe, it wasn't washed away, and he was like plowing through his cornfield to make roads so people could get in. So, yeah, it's just, it's amazing. I don't know why we have. Well, this is why I'm here. This is why I'm here. You don't have to wait for the flood, for the fire, for the shooting to be kind. If we are kind more often, praying that the shootings will lessen as we go along because people are happy, you're not going to shoot anybody if you're happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hopefully. Yesterday we talked about healthy boundaries, so I'm curious how do you maintain healthy boundaries and maintaining kindness?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's one thing I tell people and I forgot this once and was but just because you're kind, that doesn't mean you're a doormat. You may use the word, no, You're allowed. You just don't. You don't have to be the people pleaser, you just have to treat whatever that situation is with kindness. How, if you were in that, try again. This takes time and practice. Put yourself in their shoes. How would you want to be responded to?
Speaker 2:The golden rule yeah, the golden you go. You go back to that, and I know a lot of those people are like, well, I've heard it all before. I said yeah, but are you practicing it? And yes, it is this simple, and I think we just need that lesson repeated over and over and over, because we're not getting it until there is a catastrophe.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So the next pillar we have for you is humor Catching someone off guard. This will be fun. Why do you think humor can be such a powerful tool for defusing tension and fostering kindness?
Speaker 2:Well, we go back to the clown nose. Because it did that poor man was that road rage ended right there and the kids stopped fighting right there. But and at one-liners, because it just shocks people, because they don't expect you, they're yelling and screaming. They don't expect they expect you to yell and scream back. They don't expect you to put some great one-liner out there. And who's winning the fight today? Is it the devil or Jesus, and who you know, just trying to just go into that today Is the devil, jesus and who you know, just trying to just go into that?
Speaker 2:And I walked into situations I volunteered at a home for a pregnant woman and those poor girls had a lot of baggage, so they did a lot of yelling and screaming. So, yeah, you had to come up with a one-liner just to shock them out of that cycle and what it does. And the clown nose is a good one too, but if you can do the one-liners, that's even better. It it stops. It stops that cycle, it stops that. Whatever trying to think of the word, whatever they're in, it stops it and you can get them to sit down and say okay, what's the real issue?
Speaker 2:is there even an issue. Are you just having a bad day? You're just cranky today. You know it just comes down to that, and you can use that in the boardroom. You know how many times have you been sitting in a boardroom and everybody starts arguing and talking and nothing's getting accomplished. Loud noises work best in that situation, but I've seen that. I've seen it work and that everybody. Let's take five and then they come back and then they can talk constructively, get back on track. Well, that's it's. It's simple, it's really just simple things. But reminding people that, oh yeah, and practicing that pause have you ever seen the outward mindset by arbinger institute?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's a really, really amazing course. I really enjoyed it. But one of the things they talk about they do like different modules and one of them is collusion. And so in collusion you treat someone some way because they are treating you some way, and so it keeps the cycle going forever, because you continue to treat them so that you can continue to get the feedback that you think you want or need, and then it just keeps the cycle going forever, and so no one ever stops the collusion or stops that cycle. Like you were saying, you'll just continue to do it forever because you are feeding off the thing that comes around.
Speaker 1:So the collusion one I thought was really powerful, the example they used. There was a waiting room, I think it was for a hospital, and the pharmacy wanted the chairs one way, and then the lab wanted a different way, and so every morning they'd come in and like mess the chairs up for the other ones. They just kept doing it and then when they actually stopped, like, hey, what do you guys need? They needed more chairs or less chairs or whatever it was, and so they were able to do the purchase, get it fixed and everyone was happy, but they just needed to stop for a second instead of just keep messing with each other.
Speaker 2:And you know, hello, we're adults, aren't we adults? And you know, another tool I use in that same vein is compliments. You know somebody's really set off about whatever and you're not just like, hey, you know, I love those shoes and again it shocks them. Or you know, that report you did was amazing. Maybe you can teach me how to do a better report. Those kind of things, business. Even kids in school, you know, can do the same thing. I love your backpack. The way you played that game on Friday night was awesome. You know those kind of things. That book report you read Wow, that was really good. So, just again, it's because you're not feeding into that, but you're giving them compliments and they're just like how can somebody continue to be nasty when you're telling them how great they are?
Speaker 1:That's good. So last question I have in this one. It's a little odd, but how can people balance humor with empathy to ensure it's kind rather than dismissive?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to. Yeah, yeah, you do have to be careful with that, because sometimes people use sarcasm and some people don't get your sarcasm.
Speaker 2:So you have to be careful yeah, you have to be. Or if somebody is really in a bad mental state, you do read the room and that takes that pause, goes back to that pause, read the room and see, because I really, with the server, I didn't know how that was going to go and it went well, thank goodness. I know another story this woman I walk my dog on the trail all the time and she's cute and she's little. Everybody wants to pet her. So somebody asked me can I pet your dog, whatever? But then she sat down on the steps and she's talking and she's petting the dog and I said, oh geez.
Speaker 2:Well then she starts saying I lost my husband six months ago and she's crying and I'm sitting there going, oh my, so I just let her go. I had to let her go and I lost my dog three weeks ago and she's just going on and on and you just have to let. In that situation I had to just let her talk and pet the dog. My dog's very happy, climbed up in her lap. You think it's the greatest thing. And when she was done, she took a deep breath, stood up, wiped her tears and she said I haven't felt that good in six months. Yeah, I get teary-eyed over that one because it was heartbreaking to just see her like that. But it goes back to the pause and reading the room and saying, oh, maybe my sarcasm won't work that well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely got to read the audience on that one. I don't know if the clown nose works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would not have worked. It would not have worked in that situation. It would not have worked in the cafe at lunch that day. It would not have worked. So you just have to read the room and read the different situations and, yeah, practice, practice, practice.
Speaker 1:How do you see sympathy differently than empathy?
Speaker 2:One and I'm forgetting, I'm going to get it mixed up One you've actually been there, you've actually been a veteran and you knew what it's like to come back and struggle. And the other one is like the California fires is my heart just bleeds for them, because I know that's a terrible thing. I have never experienced it, but I know it's not. I cannot even imagine never experienced it, but I know it's not. I cannot even imagine losing everything, not having a toothbrush.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's rough Empathy. It's nice when someone else has been there and done that and you can have that deeper connection. The last pillar you have is don't engage. Is it more important to be kind or be right? So why do you think it's so hard for people to let go of being right?
Speaker 2:You're not in the United States, so you haven't seen the political environment.
Speaker 1:I only left in June.
Speaker 2:And I love this quote by WC Fields Just because you're invited to an argument doesn't mean you have to attend. And that comes down to hey, do I want to be right or don't want to be kind? And I'm using the political environment here just because people are truly you know, so don't talk about it. If you know they're here and you're here, don't talk about it, because you're not going to change each other's mind. And there are places. There are places for difficult conversations, not at the dinner table, not over Christmas dinner, not on Boxing Day. Those are not when you have those conversations.
Speaker 2:I know a friend this has been gosh 20, 25 years ago two uncles they even sat him at different tables but they got together, they destroyed their reception, they got into it. Whatever they don't. Even people are like we don't even want to remember what they were arguing about. But they ruined that wedding reception and that couple, still married today, said that's what we remember about our wedding day and that's just heartbreaking. That's heartbreaking that our uncles ruined the wedding reception. So that, yeah, that's where I say you know, don't engage. Why is it so important to be right?
Speaker 1:It's not always important to be right, because people will see things they don't agree with and they feel like they got to stop and prove the other person wrong or whatever. Like you can keep scrolling, like just go. I mean I don't understand Like you're going to spend. You know there's only so much time in the day. It's hard earned to have your time to relax and sit on your phone if you get out of work or whatever, and you're going to like time to fight someone that you don't even potentially know, or maybe a family member, which is probably worse. But it's like a scrolling, you can just keep on moving. It's just really bizarre.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking don't you have anything else to do, Right? Like this well-crafted argument For what?
Speaker 2:For what?
Speaker 1:I don't really know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So we've shared a lot of stories. I love stories, they're my favorite. Can you share an experience when choosing kindness over being right made all the difference?
Speaker 2:I think. Well, let me think I will tell you this is kind of a hard story. A friend of mine and I were having lunch actually a group of us and they're in Cincinnati. We have two basketball teams, university of Cincinnati and Xavier University, and they're basketball rivals, big time basketball rivals, and I went to Xavier so yes, I'm a Xavier fan and she was a UC fan and we were just and we always, you know, kind of banter back and forth when the basketball season comes around. It's always been just fun, jovial. You know they're going to kick your butt, they're going to kick you know that, back and forth, just that kind of thing. It's never been a big deal.
Speaker 2:And we were doing it, the group of us were doing it again and she just went off. I don't know what it was in my face across the table. Don't you ever say that again, I don't want to hear it out of your mouth. And the whole table went silent and I swear somebody was holding me into my chair because I wanted so bad to go back at them and it took everything I had because I'm like what the heck is there. But I didn't. I sat in that chair and took a deep breath and did that pause and didn't say anything else and somebody else changed the subject.
Speaker 2:Thank God for friends. Yeah, it was awkward for a while, but in my mind it's not in my friendship, because it was more important. My friendship with them was good. Whoops, there goes the light. This is life. My friendship was more important to me than being right. And then you think everybody at the table, if we had, because it would have been the end of the friendship, it would have been nasty. And then I got to thinking afterwards, everybody and the friend in that circle of friends we had would have been affected and how horrible would that be for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the same way you set the positivity ripples out right, the negativity will ripple out the same way. That's tough. So we talked a lot about different stories and whatnot. What practical tips do you have for listeners to help disengage from negativity while maintaining their kindness?
Speaker 2:Yeah, just keep the golden rule in mind. How would you like to be treated? Practice that pause and be intentional. Start your day out by how are you going to do something? What?
Speaker 1:are you going to?
Speaker 2:do today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. Well, we talked about a lot of good things. The three main pillars were really good. How do you think these approaches, that perspective shift, humors and disengaging work together to create a foundation for kindness? Can you use them all together?
Speaker 2:I'm sure I'm trying to think of a situation. I haven't had one, but I'm sure you could. But then again I think well, if you're reading the room, humor would not have worked in several situations, so there probably is some time where you could use them together, but I can't think of one right now. That makes sense it's more reading the room. Yeah and yeah, more reading the room and separately. I know they have worked really well.
Speaker 1:That makes sense If you could leave listeners with one message. It's always tough, right, about the power of kindness what would it be?
Speaker 2:It would be that concentrate on your corner of the world, creating kindness, creating those ripples of kindness, because that does make a difference and we're going to change the world, one ripple of kindness at a time.
Speaker 1:You want to eat this elephant, one bite at a time? Yeah, well, teresa, I thank you for coming out. I wanted to know if you have any final takeaways.
Speaker 2:Just no, that's just it. Just remember, you know everybody's got something going on.
Speaker 1:You never know what people are fighting through.
Speaker 2:And so always, always, always be kind.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for coming out. Everyone, please join the conversation. Connect with us on any one of the many social media platforms to share your questions, insights or feedback. We're building a community and your voice matters. I love you all. See ya, thank you.
