Mental Fitness: Breaking Free from the Stigma w/ Sam Stephens

Sam and Nate explore the critical importance of mental health awareness, the stigmas that prevent people from seeking help, and the journey toward emotional intelligence and healing from trauma. They discuss practical ways to support mental fitness through meditation, journaling, exercise, and connecting with safe people who can hold space for vulnerability.

• Mental health support should be viewed as an ongoing practice like physical fitness, not just something sought in crisis
• Growing up in Australia during the 90s, Sam faced significant stigma around seeking mental health help
• Journaling works best as an unfiltered "word vomit" rather than trying to write something perfect
• Warning signs of domestic violence include withdrawal, evasive behavior, and feeling controlled or monitored
• Emotional intelligence techniques include counting backward, pressing your tongue against your teeth, and physically taking steps back
• Sam courageously shares his experience of childhood molestation and growing up with parents who had depression
• Both hosts agree that vulnerability and authenticity create deeper connections with others
• Sam's meditation practice of nearly nine years has been essential to his mental health journey

It's okay that you're not okay. There's always someone there who can help – you're not alone.

https://mindforcepodcast.buzzsprout.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Sam and Mindforce
• 5:28 Breaking Mental Health Stigmas
• 12:18 Supporting Those in Abusive Homes
• 19:45 Emotional Intelligence Essentials
• 28:15 Personal Trauma and Healing Journey
• 42:35 Final Thoughts and Connections

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:23

Welcome everyone. I'm Nate Shearer, your host, and this is Mindforce, a podcast that's all about love, life and learning. Here, your mind matters. Today we'll be talking about raising awareness in mental health, anti-domestic and family violence, emotional intelligence and trauma. So let's start with the background. Let's start with a quick introduction. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you, what do you do and what brings you here today.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Journey myself and started a podcast about four months ago and, in a way, long story short, I started it for my own mental health, getting to know people, because I love talking to people, getting to love how people go through life, what struggles I've been through, what challenges I've been through and, um, I guess it helps me and it helps them. So it's yeah, it's brought me here really to, I guess, get to know you and you get to know me through this journey we call life, which I've heard you quote on your previous podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:36

Yeah, there's no handbook, there's no guide. We're just trying to get through this crazy thing called life, and I think you know the connections we have, and helping each other is really, you know, the key to it. It's probably oversimplified, but I mean. Kindness to another person really goes a long way. And just to set the scenes, Sam, where in the world are you calling from? So?

Speaker 2: 1:54

I'm calling from and I apologize for the accent I'm calling from a town called Toowoomba, which is about a 90-minute drive from Brisbane, Australia. So the state Queensland, the sunny state of Queensland, yeah, it's still summer here. It's still summer, it's still nice.

Speaker 1: 2:11

It's super cool. The joys of technology and things like that. It's 11am for me, it's nine for Sam, but we can still get together and connect. And I just wanted to touch on a few things that you talked about. Sam, I've mentioned in other episodes but just bears repeating. The joys of podcasting A lot of people see it.

Speaker 1: 2:30

You know there's too many and you know sometimes there's some negative aspects to it. You know social media can be kind of a cruel thing, but meeting, you know, new people and people you'd never get a chance to meet. Like I'm not strolling through Australia anytime soon, and so I love the ability to meet other people and talk to people that you've never get a chance. And I think you just never know what stories and things are going to connect with other people. You're like you know I'm not that big of a deal or whatever, but who knows?

Speaker 1: 2:54

You know, I think down the road, either we'll never know, or you know, even down the road, years, like you know, you get a thank you or something about a story or or something about a story or or something that was said like, oh, that became my mantra or got me through a tough time. I know a few times at work I've had that happen, you know, had someone not say anything for a year, year and a half, and then, when they went to leave, like you were really important to me, it's like I I didn't know the difference, you know. You know some of the things you said and just being there for them. So let's start, uh, with the warm-up. Sam, what's one piece of advice you wish you had received earlier about mental health?

Speaker 2: 3:24

That it's not weak to get help. Coming from Australia, like I was raised in the 90s, just showing my age here, you know you never really reached out for help. You were struggling. We didn't really have a word for it really growing up as a male, and if you were going to gonna get help it just seemed like yeah, there was a negative stigma to it, so really deterred myself and others. So you know you didn't want to be seen weak. I like to think things have changed since since then and we can get into that right up.

Speaker 1: 3:59

But yes, if you're getting help, it's not weak, yeah I think that's one thing that's just so odd to me. That's why I that's just so odd to me. That's why I was really happy to come to the conclusion of the title of the podcast. I bounced around with a couple ideas. I really wanted to go with sheerious conversations that play off my name. But one I didn't want it to be about me because that's not the point, and two I didn't want to seem like I was poking fun at something that is very important. So I didn't go that direction.

Speaker 1: 4:30

But mental fitness was super important to me because I'd heard it on the Simon Soneik show a little bit of optimism and it's something that's ongoing and I love that aspect of fitness to it. It's just so bizarre to me Like we will go and you know you have to run three or four times a week for cardio and that's normal, but for some reason we get to mental health. It's you only check into that building and talk to that person on the worst day of your life. That's not the intent. The intent is to offload things and process things as we go. So I'm glad you bring that up. I think that's a super good reminder. It's not the worst day, it's not weak. It's awesome to process and get through those things.

Speaker 2: 5:02

Next question how do to you know, process and get through those things? Next question how do you personally recharge after emotionally heavy conversations? I meditate. I do about 10 minutes a day, sometimes twice a day. I've been doing that for almost nine years. I go to the gym to exercise. I journal I've only just started journaling as well, so that's kind of new but just writing down my thoughts, my feelings and talking to my wife as well, that's good, like debriefing with her, finding that safe place as well. I feel like that's been really essential and in my journey and when I have a big day or something like that, like a big emotional day, especially from work as well, I feel like I can talk to my wife, or I can hit the gym or I can meditate. I can do all four if I need to. Yeah, it's been an ongoing thing that I don't think I can rely on one. I have to rely on many, I feel.

Speaker 1: 5:54

Yeah, and I think that's good. You had just said it's not weak and I think, like you had said before, I think it's becoming more mainstream and more normal, and that's really why one of the reasons I want to start the show losing my grandma as a kid, you know she had bottled things up with her mental health and none of the grandkids knew what was going on or anything like that. That's not the way it should be. So it's awesome to have the show and you know, I've heard journaling and meditation on the show multiple times and it seems like it's, you know, getting easier and easier to talk about and and process those things. I'm curious, though like I want to start journaling. I actually added it to my phone. It like gives me a reminder to do my thoughts. What does that kind of look like for you? Do you just open thread or like, do you have prompts? Is it just word vomit?

Speaker 2: 6:36

it's way vomit, it's open thread. I feel like at the first I just kind of held back and I was like no, no, no, like it's Like, it's just me, like I'm just going to write down what I want, no, it's not for anyone, it's for myself. So I felt like at the start I was yeah, I was probably like kind of like a little cute, like today was a good day, not much happened. But then I was like who's saying this? Like no one's you. So I just it's like no, just word vomit. Like it's also like a good way of just venting to yourself. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Yeah, I feel Nice. That's awesome Good stuff. Well, everyone that's listening start journaling, because it's almost on every episode, I think now journaling comes up, so it's obviously good stuff. Last question for you, Just curious your background. What background? What inspired you to become an advocate for mental health and domestic violence awareness?

Speaker 2: 7:25

Well, I'll start with mental health. A bit like yourself, nate, my family also suffer from mental health. Both my parents have depression. So growing up and I've mentioned this on previous podcasts growing up wasn't easy. I felt like it was like walking on eggshells sometimes both my parents, you know, and I didn't really know what to do. So it's always kind of been there and going through it myself, bottling it up, putting it to the side. I put it on the back burner. I never addressed it until I was about 30, 31, and that's when I started getting help and I thought no, well, I'm not the only one.

Speaker 2: 8:05

I feel like others also are experiencing mental health. So big advocate for that, because I'm not the only one that's going through this. I feel like there's I couldn't tell you, thousands, millions of people in the same position Domestic violence. So in my job, as I said before, I see a lot of see a lot of things. I see a lot of people that perpetrate family domestic violence towards others.

Speaker 2: 8:32

I feel like a little bit ties in with mental health. If some people had that help, or they reached out for help, or if they regulated their emotions better, they saw a therapist or they meditated or whatever they wouldn't be lashing out, they wouldn't be taking it out on others. It's a huge problem in Australia, probably a huge problem in the world, and it's affecting a lot of people and I feel like, as a male myself speaking up is significant and there's people struggling, there's people needing help and I feel like if I can raise awareness, if I can reach out for someone, then you know, that's something at least, like I'm trying to get people made aware that there are people like men that are perpetrated violence. They need help as well. So I'm not trying to put them down. I'm trying to say that all parties need help respectively. I'm trying to say that all parties need help respectively.

Speaker 1: 9:24

Yeah, I think that's a super, super good reminder, especially like you know all the time and effort that we put into putting the shows together and things like that. I know sometimes people are like, oh, you know, how do you find time and things like that. But I think if you save, you know, one person that was going to make a permanent decision, you know they're still in the world and helping other people and whatnot. Like that's already worth all the time in the world. So hopefully, you know the stories will connect and things like that. I think it's really important.

Speaker 1: 9:49

I like that you're, you know, touching on men, because we had talked about that in the very beginning. Like it seems like pull yourself up by your bootstraps and all these things that we've said for the longest things. You're just supposed to own it and you know not have as much feelings. It seems like it goes, and so it's good that you know we're able to process and get through some of that.

Speaker 1: 10:10

One question I wanted to ask you like I would love to be a therapist and whatnot, because I talk more than I should, probably, and I love, you know, hanging out with people, but one thing I think I would really struggle with. So I'm curious from your standpoint, being in the position you are, are in like I don't think I don't know if I'd be able to process like losing a person or you know someone coming back time and time again, and not like learning and growing and whatnot. Do you have someone that you've seen, like you know, fall down and make the mistake over and over and like, how do you process? Is that just frustrating or how do you feel about that? Or do you have one that's kind of a repeat person?

Speaker 2: 10:43

I've got many, obviously like disheartening it can be, but, um, I've got two boys. Right, I'll put it in this way. I've got two boys and it's a bit like this that you know they do something wrong or do something naughty, they're not listening, tell them no, and they keep doing it and then eventually they'll get it. You know, eventually, and I feel like with people on parole, or you know people that aren't community-based orders, the people I supervise. You know, um, you hope that, okay, this time didn't work, so next time. And then you know, if they come back or, like you know, from jail and they haven't learned, and you go okay, how about we try another way? Or what happened? Okay, what can we do better? Or how could you have handled that better?

Speaker 2: 11:34

And I feel like patience is obviously a big thing. You've got to realize that everyone is human, everyone's going to make mistakes. But the biggest thing is you don't really know someone until you speak to them and you don't really know how they got into that situation unless they explain it. You know, you don't know what they've been through like the trauma which we'll probably talk about later but or what they've been through and they probably just don't know, or they probably don't have the education or the support that some people have for them, so they might just need that bit of extra help.

Speaker 2: 12:08

And if they're showing small steps, just like kids, you know, if they show those small steps that they're improving, it's, in a way, gratifying. So, yeah, it can be very frustrating. Time after time I've seen the same people. But you know, if they're showing a little bit of signs or the smallest steps, it's, it's quite good. Like you, I feel so good about that and that's one of the reasons why I've started the job so long. Like it's just so good to see someone making, if it's the slightest change, yeah, it's, it's. It's so graphic, it's hard to explain, but yeah, it's so gratifying because you feel like, yep, they're learning or they're doing things right or they're doing things a little bit better.

Speaker 1: 12:45

Yeah, I think that's a good thing for life too. I guess I I should have thought of that that way. You look at like james clear and his book atomic habits or things like that, where you talk about one percent better. Or just I say at work, a lot of times I just try to make less mistakes than the day before, like I'm not looking for a stellar day every time. If I could just not do some dumb things that I did the day before, I'll kind of count that as a win. So yeah, that's good. I like that. I like how you said that, because I think a lot of times we want these big things and big wins, but the small wins add up and the small wins get you to big wins. You know that motivation to feel good throughout the time. So I'm awesome, that's awesome. You brought that up. I think that's a good reminder. Everyone should remember the small, small wins.

Speaker 1: 13:31

Another thing I wanted to touch on and then I got sidetracked because that's how my brain works. But the negative aspects of life I love that you brought that up where you're able to connect, because at work I'll bring up you know that I've been divorced and I co-parent and I lost my dad and you know I've gone through these difficult things losing most of my grandparents and things like that and I don't bring him up to be like negative and bring down the mood of the section Right. But I hope that those you know bridge the gap Like I never. To me it seems like a diss, disservice and a complete waste.

Speaker 1: 13:59

If I went through something difficult and I can't help somebody along the way, that means I it just sucked to suck and that's not fun, that's, that's, that's awful, right, and so I feel like if I've gone through something difficult, I want to use that and hopefully, even if it's not to solve someone else's problem, but just the empathy, to sit in the space with them and know like there's some terrible things that happen and we'll, you know, get through it it. But before we get into the meat of the interview, I wanted to see, sam, if you have a question for me. I do.

Speaker 2: 14:27

If you could live in any song, what would it?

Speaker 1: 14:30

be oh, any song, oh geez, I'm gonna say holiday by madonna. That way, uh, I'm on holiday and I don't have as much responsibilities and I'm constantly on vacation, which is probably a cop-out, but that's the first thing I can think of. So, holiday, holiday, that holiday, that's what I'm doing. I'm living in the holiday by Madonna. Good answer, sam. Your three main pillars. First one is raising awareness and mental health. This one, I think I probably know the direction you're going to go, but we'll see. What are the biggest misconceptions about mental health that still exist today. I feel like what you touched before.

Speaker 2: 15:07

Like you know, you go to the gym regularly and you know you work on your cardio, you work on your strength or whatever, and you keep doing it to get stronger, faster, whatever.

Speaker 2: 15:17

People go to counseling or therapy or see a psychologist once and sometimes they feel like, oh, I'm healed. Um, I just recently was told if you hear someone say I'm healed, it's a red flag. So I feel like a misconception is it's an ongoing thing and if you, if you feel like you're here, you're probably not so doing regular things for your mental health, as you said, like we should be more proactive than reactive, just because we go to the gym and we you know all we're exercising doesn't mean we're like for our physical health, doesn't mean we, we can't do that for our mental health. So like we do one thing, like we see a therapist or we journal, we meditate once, doesn't mean that we're done. We're we always should be good for the next 20, 30 years. No, no, we got to keep that going. Things are good, keep that up. So I think that's a big misconception as well.

Speaker 1: 16:10

That reminds me the other day my wife had a session. I was at work and she had hers during the day and I was like, oh, how was your session today? She's like it was tough. And I was like, oh, okay, she's like it was great and she's like it was great and like same thing right like digging deep, getting through some stuff, pressing on, and so hers was almost synonymous right with like tough meaning like getting through some stuff. It wasn't necessarily fun at the time, but rewarding, and I think that's with a lot of things actually just posted on facebook. On wednesday it was my anniversary, eighth wedding anniversary with my lovely wife and she thank you.

Speaker 1: 16:43

She scheduled some Thai massages and during the massage I got elbows and knees in my back and you know at the time, like I can barely breathe, like this is painful, but then I realized like you come out and you're a little more limber, you feel good, it releases some toxins, you know all those things. But you got to go through the difficult times and I think that's like core to life, like you're going to have good things but it's not for no, you know, at no cost. You go through the elbows and knees and your back and then you know you feel a little bit better because I got the knots out or whatnot. So but yeah, that's a good one. I like that. I'm curious, sam. You know it's a big issue, it's cultural, you know it's probably across the whole world, but what do you think are some ways we can shift the conversation to reduce the stigma?

Speaker 2: 17:29

just being more open, men becoming more vulnerable I mean all people becoming more vulnerable. Like I have a problem I have. I'm learning now through this journey but I've always had a problem opening up, becoming vulnerable to people. Um, I've always found it hard to talk about things that If we be more open towards getting help or talking to others or getting support, it can really make a difference or it can lose that stigma. So I guess if we normalize it, I guess in everyday conversations or at the workplace, I think that would go a long way.

Speaker 1: 18:11

Yeah, I think that's something I hope we get to at some point, like with this show and your show and just having more conversations. I don't know what the answer is because I think it's a huge issue, but yeah, I think it's bizarre. Like you know, you talk about the gym and everyone will tell you their whole routine. Like I got back and buys tonight you know I'm doing three by 10, but I don't hear too many people. I'm going to go sit in a park and meditate or something. That should be the same thing. Let's just do the same thing. I have a new routine. I got a new notebook for journaling or whatever it may be. That should have that same hype and be able to have that same conversations. The next question I had were practical ways to support your own mental health. You talked about journaling and meditating. Do you have any other things for practical tips Finding that safe?

Speaker 2: 18:58

person I think is good, whether it's family or friends, obviously, that's big. I feel like if you can talk to someone that you feel safe with, that you can feel vulnerable with, that can go a long way. Another one, obviously exercise, whether that's walking or running or just the gym, whatever you do like contact sport or sport in general. I feel like that could help and in a way, that's a form of meditating as well, if you really think about it. But yeah, you will never feel bad or feel horrible if you do a good workout or a good run. I feel afterwards you won't feel angry, definitely, or you won't feel upset. You might feel sore, but that's you know. That's the the thing with um exercise yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 1: 19:45

I was at the gym this week and it was interesting. The personal trainer kind of mentioned that and we were talking about the parallels between meditating and weight lifting and we were talking about know you hold your breath or you exhale at different times and you know you're at the bottom and it's painful and you got to get yourself up out of the squat or you know whatever maneuver you're doing. But it was kind of interesting how we talked about there's a lot of parallels. Basically, weightlifting is meditating, depending on you know how you do it.

Speaker 2: 20:40

So that's awesome. The last question I had for you you did touch on it a little bit, like in Australia and growing up, but just curious, if you had anything else, like how need help males? They could just white knuckle it and just bury it, because if you're getting therapy or if you're getting help, you're weak. So I think that stigma is probably a little bit still there, but hopefully it's changing and we're heading in towards the right direction. So I feel like in a like definitely in australia, I think we're heading in the right direction. More people are getting more help than ever before. Like I feel that's definitely good, like definitely a long way to go with this Since COVID. I think everything changed then that people were more open about their struggles and more open of getting help.

Speaker 1: 21:07

Yeah, I hope that we're able to connect with others too, because we know there's not enough mental health professionals in the world. We just can't keep up with the demand. I know me, being a hospital administrator, like I hear that all the time but it's you know, throughout the UK and US, australia, you know throughout the world there's not enough and so I think, like you mentioned that safe space a wife or friend or whatever it is you can make that call and process at the lowest level and offload it before you know. Obviously there's larger things like trauma, which we'll get into here, that you know needs that professional. But if you can have that lowest level and have that safe space, I think that really helps offload those things before you get to that really difficult thing. The next pillar Sam you have is anti-domestic violence and family advocacy. So what are some warning signs that someone is in an abusive home? This is a tricky one.

Speaker 2: 21:56

I guess that each one is different, like each one is unique, but I guess one is if that person is withdrawn, they're not themselves, they're acting a bit shy or different. So that's a sign and they might brush things off or they might be very evasive or dismissive in conversations. That's probably, uh, like, probably the the most common one. I mean, each one's so different. But like, yeah, like think that one.

Speaker 2: 22:25

If you notice them, you know being a bit more scattered, or you know, because there's probably trouble at home, you know they're probably not, they're probably not feeling safe, or they probably can't talk.

Speaker 2: 22:38

They probably feel very scared that they can be open, so they're feeling very paranoid too, or they feel like they can't talk to anyone, so feeling that they're controlled, they're being monitored, so that that's pretty hard to like know as well. So being like being in, like um a person, sorry, if you know someone or if you feel like someone is experiencing it, always just have no judgment. Just be impartial and just be like I'm here for you. If you need anything, I'm here for you. Just be there, whether it's just an ear or if they need help, if it could be in the middle of the night, just offer that Just be like, you can stay with me if you need it or if you need me to take you somewhere. I think that's probably the best thing you can do for someone experiencing family or domestic violence at home, because they might feel too scared to go to the police or feel too scared to go anywhere. So I feel like if you just remind them, hey, I'm always here if anything happens.

Speaker 1: 23:38

Yeah, that's something I'm curious about. So, from you know, TV and movies obviously those are, you know, not real and I've never lived through it, but it seems like a lot of times the person feels trapped and scared and things like that. So how do you kind of get them to break that cycle, Because I feel like they, you know, don't believe they're able to start new or they're not able to break free and things like that. How does that transition go? Or how do you convince people to like maybe make a fresh start?

Speaker 2: 24:07

Yeah, again, that's a tricky one, but I feel like probably the best way is to just say there's help out there, like you don't have to feel like you're trapped. Just remind them you know there's police, there's special units in the police that I know that help. There's services. You know victim services out there, they can help. Just remind them that they're not alone too. Like I feel like it's it's hard, yeah, like you know, deal with this a lot, but just, yeah, just have to remind like that there is help, and then when they do, then it's a whole thing. Like it can be different for each situation, but police get involved or the. There's like non-government services that get involved, like which are very helpful. They're very, very helpful. Like they can help with like accommodation or food or stuff like that, um, or help them move if they need. So put protection orders in as well, restraining orders in, like with the courts as well. So if that is anything, I feel like that's something for help.

Speaker 1: 25:11

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm sure there's a lot of complex issues, I mean when kids are involved in other things. So sure it gets more and more. I'm curious from your standpoint.

Speaker 2: 25:21

Growing up in a difficult home like what's something that you didn't understand until much later I thought I was like the only one going through it, yeah, and I thought I was the only one with like a mental, like my parents having mental health issues, um, and look, I love my mom and dad. Like don't get me wrong it, you know. I just didn't know that there are other people out there and with with similar situations. Like would you agree for yourself? You've? You know, I hope you don't mind me asking like you've had a similar situation. Like did you feel like you were the only?

Speaker 1: 25:56

one, yeah, yeah, and that's another reason, uh, that I started the show. I think that's what helps us. We get the word out, we share stories and then you're like, oh yeah, other people, even if it's not exactly the same, even if it's parallel, you already feel better that someone else. And it sounds weird like you don't want someone else to suffer because you suffered, like that's not the intent, but just to know that someone else. And I think, going back to COVID, like you mentioned earlier, everyone isolated, we were stuck inside, we weren't sure what was going on and you just felt like I'm the only one. And maybe that's why people are getting more help, cause we all went through this terrible thing, even though we were stuck in our houses. We went through it somewhat as a as a world, I guess, and we got to the other side, we got our two or three shots and now we've kind of moved on.

Speaker 1: 26:40

I saw my shot card the other day. I was like geez, I remember that shot card. I carry the thing everywhere. But yeah, I love that you mentioned that. I'm so appreciative that you mentioned like.

Speaker 1: 26:49

I think that's where the darkness of mental health really comes from, like losing my grandma, I think same thing, like she can't talk to anybody, she's the only one and that's what you believe. You believe you're the only one. And I remember, like when I lost my dad, like I couldn't think of anybody to call, like it was just the worst feeling that I've ever experienced, just feeling like you're there, you're stuck in it. And so that's why I think, like the support groups even though I'm sure they're uncomfortable to go and like share stories with other people, like that's really how you do get through it. You hear other people and share those experiences.

Speaker 1: 27:20

Like if anyone's listening to the show, you are not the first person to ever go through that thing. That's pretty much impossible. You'd have to be one in eight billion or whatever the number is. Like it's not. And even if it's exactly you and only you, you there is someone that's very similar to that that'll be able to hold that space and sit with you and maybe say nothing at all, just know that they've been in a similar situation. So, sam, yeah, that's awesome. The last question I had for you is do you have any ideas if you were king for the day, as they say, right? What policy changes or shifts are needed to help protect victims?

Speaker 2: 27:56

there probably has to be more support with, like getting them another house or like like, I guess, housing or food or stuff like that, because there's like a shortage of housing in australia as well. So I think that trends, and you know there's what you mentioned before. The complexity of kids, too, like that plays a whole different part in it, because you know how do you share custody as well, so like it's hard. But if you could ease that transition for like housing, I feel like could be a lot easier, like if you help someone move, but then that raises like a lot of other issues, I feel as well. So like you need a few, you need a few, yeah that raises the taxes that no one wants to pay.

Speaker 1: 28:43

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. The next one you got is emotional intelligence. I think this is the first time on the show, so that'll be interesting. Nice, nice. Why do you think emotional intelligence? Intelligence is essential for healing and personal growth.

Speaker 2: 29:00

I feel like it's important to be aware of your emotions, to be aware of how you're you're feeling and if you find yourself triggered or you find yourself doing something like my boss always says to me, check yourself before you wreck yourself. And I still struggle with it sometimes. Becoming aware of your emotions and knowing other people's emotions is essential in that day-to-day life going through life, going through work, going through family situations, knowing what your boundary is as well, knowing there might be something that someone says and you don't know how to act, or it might trigger something from the past and you don't know how to. You might react so unexpectedly. So knowing how to manage that, or knowing that you can identify what's going on in your emotions and how other people are, I feel is a day-to-day practice, or it should be an everyday thing. I think it's funny, it should be it should be everyday thing.

Speaker 1: 30:09

I think it's funny there's so many like common phrases we use all the time and it's some reason we don't like stop and actually think of what they mean or actually put them into practice.

Speaker 1: 30:19

Cause I think of this always makes me think of like put yourself in someone else's shoes, like we say that or walk a mile, but we don't like stop and do it Like you had mentioned way back. Like you see the homeless person on the side of the road and you're like, oh, they're just asking for money and you know they're worthless and all these things or whatnot. And you were saying like actually talk to the person, like how did they get there? What happened? Like they could have been, you know, just like you with a job and everything was fine, and then they lost their job, or you know they got injured, or or you know long list of things. So I think putting yourself in other people's shoes is is super important. Do you have like a technique? Do you just kind of pause and count to five? Or like how do you kind of stop before you? You said you're still kind of struggling, but are there. You know techniques you use to kind of slow down, I think um, obviously, yeah, count to five backwards, like five, four, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:11

and then I also this is a new one I've done like I put my tongue in between my but again I press my tongue against my teeth, like that, and then I try and say my name, which makes like no noise, like yeah, so, and I'm like oh, and it just gives me that couple of seconds to be like okay, yeah, and then also a good one is just taking maybe one or two steps back, like just that physical presence of moving backwards so that you can become more aware of your body or more aware of your emotions, gives you also that second of like okay, what am I doing? All right, how am I feeling? Yes, I'm checking myself before I wreck myself. So that is probably my main one. I do, I, I, even if it's if you're sitting in a chair, if you just move your chair just slightly, slightly backwards, just it just brings that awareness of your body too that's interesting, I had never thought of that.

Speaker 1: 32:07

That's cool like the smallest things. That'll, you know, reset and get you squared away. I was uh curious. You had talked earlier about, um, emotional intelligence and whatnot. One thing I thought about was we talk about like a fight over the dishes or taking the trash out, and people will say it's not actually about the dishes. Uh, so how can emotional intelligence help prevent abusive behavior within relationships?

Speaker 2: 32:35

I think, if you, if you're fighting over something like that, yeah, putting the dishes away or something like that, and there's there's obviously something else going on. Maybe you need to talk to that person or even, like, find out what's really bothering you or what's being triggered, becoming aware of. Is it just the dishes, that something's triggering you, or is it something else and you're being bothered, like, are you irritated by everything or are you irritated by that person asking you, I think, really getting to the to the crux of, like, what is actually bothering you, because, yeah, you're not going to get angry over someone or those dishes, it's something's bothering, bothering you deep down inside you.

Speaker 1: 33:26

so, finding that time, whether it's meditatingaling or just even talking to that safe person or talking to someone about how this is bothering me and I don't know why- I hate to put you on the spot, sam, but do you have any stories from work obviously without the names and things, but of emotional intelligence where someone wasn't able to kind of see how they were feeling and then later on, like I was able to look internally and now like I have better relationships and things like that, like an actual story to show how that plays out?

Speaker 2: 33:57

yeah, I've got one and obviously I won't say any names. So I had this guy on perale and I had him for a long, long time and you know I would see him regularly every month or so. Anyway, one day I was about to see him and he was waiting for me in the like in the waiting room and I had this awful conversation with someone else. Like they just got up me and I was like I was like, oh well, that wasn't necessary, like they were taking out of me and I just didn't feel easy. And then this guy you know who I'd seen for a while. I he was waiting and waiting and I was on the phone and he'd been waiting a while. I, he was waiting and waiting and I was on the phone, he'd been waiting a while and I was like, all right, I better better see him.

Speaker 2: 34:35

So I didn't, I didn't take that time to deregulate my emotions and I just went in raw, raw, dogged it, as the kids say it and then I just went in to the to him and we're going through what, what we normally say and what we talk about, like I do my check-ins and I see how he's traveling and I do what I've got to do, and then I started to get a bit gnarky with him and I started to get a little bit bit tense with him and he was like whoa, you're all right. And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine. He's like no, you're not, because I I've known him for years, right, he's been on parole for years and he knew my personal, I knew his personality, he knew my personality. And I and he said, are you sure? And I'm like, yeah, I'm fine, let's get on with this.

Speaker 2: 35:17

And then he stopped me again and said no, you're not yourself. And I was like sorry, I'm just having a bad day, I'm really sorry to take it out on you. So, like, using myself as an example, like I didn't take that five or ten minutes to talk to someone, debrief about someone or just meditate or just check myself, because I just went into that, that interview, still upset with another phone call, like still angry at this phone call I had and it got me fired up and I'm like I'll deal with it later and I didn't. I just took it out on that guy and I felt horrible. I apologize to him later, after the interview, but or during the interview, sorry, I should say. But yeah, that's a clear example and you know, it probably happens in a lot of jobs and a lot of people, would you?

Speaker 1: 36:04

agree? Oh yeah, definitely. I was just listening to a call at work on people that move into the squadron commander role, which is like a mid-level, I guess, leadership management role, and one of the questions they'd ask is like what's something you wish you would have known earlier or something. But it was that ability to take a breath because, like, the choices you make at that level as a squadron commander impacts someone's career and their life and so they could have family and so you can actually take pay from them or, you know, demote them and take away their rank, and that also impacts money and things like that. So it's one of the first levels where you have the ability to change the course of someone's life. So they were saying you know, take the breath. If it's not like a safety concern, like you know, obviously safety, you got to step in and you got to fix things like there's something else you can do right, but if it's not safety, sleep on it for the night. You know, call legal, call other people that have people that are in the same situation.

Speaker 1: 36:55

We have what's called status of discipline, so it's like where people get in trouble and you can kind of see what the going rate is for a certain punishment, so that no one's too far out of line for one specific punishment. But I thought that was a really good thing, where we always talk about faster and better and you know, doing things more efficiently. But that was one of the first times I've heard like patience, the opposite, like slow down. The thing that you can do is pretty irreversible, like once you demote or you know, do whatever you do to a person, you can't really go back, like you might be able to fix it administratively, but you've made the impact Right, and so I thought taking a breath was it was pretty cool and I think that would help. Like you said, you know, transition to the next thing, maybe you take your couple steps back or you know whatnot and be able to to move forward. But I thought that was important. So, yeah, I totally agree with that.

Speaker 1: 37:43

We got one question from your bonus pillar. I'm curious how has trauma shaped your personal mental and mental and emotional well-being?

Speaker 2: 37:54

I have to go a little, a little deep here. So I feel like it's like it's um, it's been a lot so like going through this mental health journey I've been doing the last whatever how long I've. It's brought up a lot of trauma in my life that I've experienced, but I've never really told anyone, with one being that when I was a child I was molested on a school camp. I didn't tell anyone about it. You know, I've only just in the last few years that I've just talked about, like started to tell people about it and you know, about my parents having depression, not that I want everyone to know like I've had the worst life or you know, but it wasn't easy, you know. Like you know I I'm not saying it was a bad life, it just wasn't easy.

Speaker 2: 38:41

Um, you know you're saying before people build up stuff, you know they push things down and they just get on with life and we don't know and I felt like I did that for a number of years Other things as well, you know, and hurt people, hurt people.

Speaker 2: 38:58

I don't know if you've heard that saying I've taken out like emotional baggage on people and it's not fair. It's not fair on them, it's not fair on myself, you know, not opening up, not telling people, hey, I'm actually really struggling here, or hey, this happened to me when I was a kid or this happened to me growing up and that like not saying like it would have helped me, but like it would have cured me or whatever. But it probably would have made me a bit more open or a bit like skewed, because I was so like, I was so negative for a while, like I just felt like like I was the only one and why, why, why do I have to get, why do I have to be through this? Like why, why am I the only one being hurt? Why am I the only one that's had this?

Speaker 2: 39:45

you know no one's. No one knows what I'm going through.

Speaker 2: 39:48

And it wasn't until later in my 30s like started when I was 30, that I was like I need to talk to someone, I need to reach out, I need to get help and become more open, more vulnerable about myself and just being true to myself as well. Like, if you're true to yourself, if you're being open with yourself as well, then I feel like and what you were saying before like even if one conversation from your podcast or Michael's podcast or whatever relates with someone, then they can then be open as well. If someone's listening to this and they can take something away from us, nate, they can be like, well, you know what? It's okay to be open or it's okay to know that you're struggling. There's someone out there that can lend an ear or that can just listen and talk and be that place.

Speaker 2: 40:43

I really like what you said just be that place. Like you're not exactly going to have the exact same trauma or experience with someone, but like, hey, like you know what I'll, I'll share that space with you if you just you just want me to be there and just if you want to talk or if you just want to stay in silence. But you know, I'll just be there for you and I love what I've heard that from your other episodes as well.

Speaker 2: 41:06

Like a big fan of your show, by the way, I should tell you that, like I'm a big fan, I've been listening to all your episodes and, yeah, like thank you, yeah, it's, you do a great job. So, yeah, I feel like trauma shapes people uniquely, but it can it can skew people very negatively.

Speaker 1: 41:23

Yeah, I think that's one thing that holds people back and so I try to bring that up in the different episodes and hopefully you know it will reach out to people is you don't have to have the perfect words. I think in a lot of times you don't need words at all. I think we sit there and we're like, oh, we're not going to sit with them, I'm going to feel awkward. I'm going to feel this If you sit with the person I mean, I'm not a trained professional, I do not have a mental health degree but I am pretty certain they will feel better if you share the space with them.

Speaker 1: 41:50

If that's over coffee, if that's wherever it may be, at a sporting event, you know, whatever it may be. But I think that's, you know, so difficult, like I don't know what to say and I don't know how to make them feel better. Sitting there will probably make them feel better, like you had said, being apprehensive on sharing your story and things like that. But I'm sure at this point, now that you've shared this very dark and difficult thing, I'm sure people have been able to connect with you more right 100%.

Speaker 2: 42:15

What about yourself? Do you feel like being more open about and I'm really sorry about your grandmother and your dad, by the way, I should have said that at the start but being more open about your struggles and your inner demons? Do you feel like it's helped you? It's helped?

Speaker 1: 42:33

inner demons. Do you feel like it's helped you? It's helped. Yeah, I think it's definitely helped with the connection because I'm an officer in the air force and so you know you have this like pedestal and this gap between enlisted and officers which kind of drives me nuts, like one of us got a degree and one of us didn't like I know there has to be structure and there has to be some level of respect, right, but we're all people, we're all, we're all going through things and so I love you know now, like I said earlier, I share that I you know the divorce and the co-parenting of these difficult things. So when people have to leave or it was weird, sir they're like you will have no bad days I'm like that's insane. Like we all have bad days. They want us to be this like kind of facade of being perfect.

Speaker 1: 43:10

But like I have been able to connect with people way better ever since I think it was like the first year or two I kind of held this uptight and tried to be the person I was quote, unquote supposed to be, but then, once I started opening up, like Brene Brown and, you know, being vulnerable and things like that I have had a way better reception and being able to connect with people. And I have lifelong friends, I'm pretty sure, from some of these things where if I would have been you know the uptight I wouldn't have been able to connect and, you know, be there for them. And I just reflect back on that it doesn't suck for no reason. Like that doesn't make sense to me. I just can't wrap my head around that and justify that it sucked so that I could help somebody. That is the value of the suck. Like it's not gonna just be terrible. I just can't believe that we were meant to go through difficult times for no reason. I just don't believe it.

Speaker 2: 43:58

I love that. I absolutely love that, like, you went through this hard time, maybe, or whoever put you on this earth, or whoever you believe in so you could help others, or that you could share your story, or myself as well, or whoever others, or that you could share your story, or or myself as well, or whoever like people on this podcast that we can help others. I love that. I absolutely love that. I might have to steal it off you, but no that that was really cool and like what being your true self as well, would you say, being more authentic, being your authentic self as well like I couldn't imagine at when you first started in the military. Was it like you would? You wouldn't be. You could be yourself. You couldn't be your honest self. That would be. Yeah, I know it was.

Speaker 1: 44:39

It was funny, like I didn't even realize I was just playing the part I thought I needed to and then, like, then I start smiling and joking and laughing and being the real and it just all snaps back. So I kind of find it funny where it's like I thought I could do it and I don't believe it's real. I don't. Maybe you can do it for three months a year. You could do it for a while, I think, but like you're just going to end up back where you are. So just don't, just don't fake it. There's no point you can't. I love that.

Speaker 2: 45:17

Yeah. So, sam, let's try to bring it all together. If listeners could take one thing away from today's conversation, what would you hope it would be? It's okay that you're not okay. Just remember that there's always someone there that you can get help, reach out, whatever like talk to. You can have that person there, whether you want to just have coffee what you said before. But if you're having upsetting feelings or you feel like you're not coping, just remember that that's okay. But there is help. There is someone out there that can help, or you know you're not alone.

Speaker 1: 45:41

It's okay to not be okay. That's a good reminder and a great note. So, Sam, where can people connect with you to learn more about you and your work?

Speaker 2: 45:50

So I've got a podcast, you me in a podcast. It's you know, on all reputable platforms. So you know, just search it if you want. And it's, you know, on my instagram. It's on instagram as well. So yeah, please check it out sounds good.

Speaker 1: 46:05

Well, sam, thank you for coming out. Everyone out there. I'd love your input. Share your questions or feedback on any of the various social media platforms or anywhere you get your podcasts. Please drop a review If you can take a few minutes. You know, hit that five stars, that'd be pretty cool. I love you all. See ya, thank you.