Healthcare Reform, Purpose, and Giving: A Conversation w/ Mike McLain

Former Lieutenant Colonel Mike McClain shares his journey from military service to healthcare reform advocate, exploring how authentic identity, healthcare transparency, and global giving can transform lives and systems. Mike reveals how finding his true purpose led him to leave a promising military career to pursue his calling of redeeming healthcare in America.

• Identity flows from understanding your core self, beyond external validation and accolades
• Creating space for solitude and reflection is essential for discovering authentic purpose
• Work-life "balance" naturally follows when you operate from genuine identity
• American healthcare ranks lowest in quality and highest in cost among top GDP countries
• Pharmaceutical pricing lacks transparency, with many medications costing 10x more than necessary
• Pharmacy Benefit Managers receive rebates for certain drugs, creating misaligned incentive structures
• Consistency in health habits matters more than extreme programs or diets
• The "1040 window" contains over 80% of the world's material poverty
• Those with the highest material wealth often experience the deepest spiritual poverty
• Giving creates a beautiful exchange where both giver and receiver benefit

Connect with Mike McClain on LinkedIn or follow him on social media @TallMikeMcClain. Check out his podcast "It Is Good" to learn more about his work in healthcare reform and global giving.

https://mindforcepodcast.buzzsprout.com

Chapters

• 0:50 Introduction to Mike McClain
• 7:00 Identity and Purpose: The Core of Balance
• 17:07 Healthcare System: Broken and Opaque
• 27:25 Serving Communities in Extreme Poverty
• 46:05 Finding Time for What Matters
• 50:20 Final Thoughts and Connection Points

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:23

Hi everyone, I'm Nate Shearer and this is Mindforce, the podcast where we explore love, life and learning, because your mind shapes everything. Today we have a lot of topics intentionality and vision, the broken system of healthcare in America and the need for new incentive structures and giving of time, talent, treasures to the nations around the world in the deepest areas of poverty. So let's start with the background. Let's start with a quick introduction. Mike, tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you, what do you do and what brings you here today?

Speaker 2: 0:59

Yeah well, first off, nate, thanks for having me on the show. This is a real treat. Normally I'm on the other side of the camera here, so this is fun. Yeah. So Mike McClain, former Lieutenant Colonel, medical Service Corps officer in the Air Force, did 14 and a half years after I graduated from the Air Force Academy, where I played basketball, I spent my last year there as team captain. I traveled all over the world, deployed downrange in support of the drawdown with ISIS, did some forward deployed telehealth options there.

Speaker 2: 1:28

I spent two years at Defense Health Headquarters the medical annex of the Pentagon. For those that are unfamiliar, worked with our top general officer, susan Pietrzkowski probably the greatest natural leader I've ever known in my life. Moved over to the financial side and helped run the Air Force budget and then did the emergency COVID-19. Finished out with my third master's degree and just felt like I was being called to do something greater in the healthcare space. I think we're going to get to what my passion and calling is, but I'll give a little bit of a teaser here. That is to redeem healthcare in America and certainly some cool stuff happening with that in the last even month or two.

Speaker 1: 2:04

That's awesome. Yeah, you didn't want one or two masters, that wasn't good.

Speaker 2: 2:09

Yeah, I got to outdo my wife, so her and I have an ongoing competition. So, yeah, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention wife of 11 years, chelsea. She's a mental health counselor, former Air Force officer as well, and we have three kids, seven, four and two.

Speaker 1: 2:26

Nice. Yeah, I'm right there, dang, I got seven, 10, and 11. Nice, and to set the scene, I find it interesting, I've now had people South Africa, australia, germany I think the list is longer than that that I can think of. But to set the scene, where are you calling from today?

Speaker 2: 2:50

Yeah. So that's a great question because, as of this morning a little teaser for those that know my podcast we are in a new location. So my wife and I just bought a new house here in Colorado Springs, Colorado, so I have a brand new podcast studio. Not super satisfied with Riverside's green screen elimination technology here, but we'll make do. So I am in the basement of our new house in a brand new podcast studio, which I'll do a little short video on that so people can see kind of what we're doing.

Speaker 1: 3:10

I'm loving the brick. It's really good. I love the green behind your ears.

Speaker 2: 3:13

It's really bringing out your eyes. Yeah, we're going to have to change that. Midway through the podcast, people be like did he move? No, no, I did not.

Speaker 1: 3:21

That's wonderful, riverside. Work on your elimination, you need some help. Speaking of financial, I'm curious. You know Dan Lee? Yeah, absolutely yes. It's so funny.

Speaker 1: 3:31

It's such a small world. I was sitting in a staff meeting yesterday and his name came up on the slide and just random story. That is completely off topic from the script. But I knew nothing about what a medical service corps officer was at all. I'm relatively healthy. I don't go to the clinic. I have no idea what this career field even is.

Speaker 1: 3:49

I dive off boats in Guam doing a lot of scuba diving and would do like buddy checks on this guy and his two sons and you know, make sure everyone's squared away and dive off the boat with this guy. He was really nice and cool and I knew nothing about him. And then later on I stumbled across MSC, I apply, I get picked up and all these things, and later realized Dan Lee should have been my 06 interview with, but he had left just a few months before my interview and that's who he was and so didn't know he was an MSC, didn't even know what that job was. But it's a small world and you'll end up bumping into people again. But I guess he's coming out here. Like April May. I hope I get a chance to see him again. What year was that Nate? 2015 to 17 is when I was there.

Speaker 1: 4:31

I left in 17 when I got picked up.

Speaker 2: 4:33

Yeah, big, big fan of retired Colonel Lee. He was our pseudo chief of staff at SG-18. We didn't have a secretary, so he mentored me, helped me as I was the exec for General Pye, and he is a remarkable human being, very intelligent as well.

Speaker 1: 4:51

Yeah, it seems like the resources go farther. I need to switch it up. So far, my boss is Vitor McFarland, and then you know, dan, not my supervisor, but these people that are resources that go the distance. I guess readiness isn't where it's at. That's an all-star cast right there, some good ones. Yeah, I've been lucky and very blessed, but we'll start with the warm-up. Mike, what's a defining moment in your life that shaped your passion for these three pillars that we talked about.

Speaker 2: 5:17

Yeah, I mean, my year with General Pye did a lot of shaping in many, many, many ways. I had done shadowing at the executive level before with the Army Baylor program. My year Providence Health and Services with Preston Simmons, the CEO of the Northwest Region of Providence Health and Services. This was different. It was really a true mentorship. General Pye brought me under her wing, really showed me the ins and outs of what it means to no kidding run the size and scope of what she was dealing with. And you know, let's just take a pause here real quick we weren't talking the normal SG-18 stuff. We were talking about medical reform 4684, which is kind of a pseudo curse word here, which I'm not allowed to curse and I wouldn't anyways, but nonetheless 4684.

Speaker 2: 6:03

And a bunch of things that were going on on the heels of NDAA 2017. And so to really watch her kind of navigate that stuff in very intimate ways was really, really special. And so I learned a lot of things from that. I learned, you know, I wanted to be a high level health care executive, but not necessarily in the MHS. That was a huge turning point. I learned work-life balance. I learned how to have fun while working extremely hard and she is a master at creating culture and her culture is fun. But we also did a lot of work and worked long hours and so her ability to kind of craft that, to build a team. It shaped me, it propelled me, it basically pointed me in a new direction in my career and what I wanted to do in life.

Speaker 1: 6:52

So that term work-life balance has always kind of drove me nuts. If you could change those words, what would you change them to?

Speaker 2: 6:58

And likewise, by the way, what would I change it to? Oh boy, no-transcript. When you have identity, everything flows from that, and that's a really broad topic that I'd love to dive into sometime. But when you have that work-life balance kind of flows naturally.

Speaker 1: 7:46

Yeah, it's always interesting to me, like the association of time with effort, like there's no connection with that. I've had co-workers that you know came in early and left late and part of me thinks they didn't have a great family life, but I don't know that for sure. But they'd walk around most of the day with a coffee cup and the bosses and whatnot be like, oh, they're doing so great, they've been here for 10 hours. And then I'd see another coworker I had where they would get there exactly at 7.30 and leave. They'd be almost by the door by 4.30 to watch some music, because their driving factor was their daughter.

Speaker 1: 8:21

So she had a driving factor, a why her purpose? And hey, I'm going to get home, soak up as much time as I can with my child and recharge and come back the next day. But her tasks like if you saw her checklist of things that got done, crushing it because I'm going to get out and be done by 4.30. And so the correlation, like the eight hours versus the 10 hours, it's not even in any way comparable, like she was destroying it and he was just hanging out with the coffee cup. But people would see the 10 hours and be so happy about it. Isn't that weird, nate, this is a hot topic, so to speak.

Speaker 2: 8:54

It'll get me fired up because we and I say we. I'm no longer a medical service corps officer, I'm long gone at this point but there was this weird badge of honor with working long hours and when I was working for General Pye, she tried to dispel that quite a bit. Everywhere we went she would ask what are normal working hours and she would leave at 521 as a 21st Corps Chief every single day and would she log in late at night on a Monday night? Yeah sure, did the staff know that? No, they did not, because she didn't want to set a precedent of long hours. And I think we have unfortunately laid in an incentive structure formally and informally, by the way that does not align with what we're trying to achieve.

Speaker 2: 9:36

So we espouse work-life balance, which again another topic for another day. But then we applaud people who it's like man there's. There's Dave over there with his coffee cup. Did he leave last night? There's a pillow in his office. I think he slept on his couch. Wow, what a hard worker. It's like no, his family life is crumbling. He has nothing outside of here, so all he has is relationships at work and his identity is wrapped up in completing the task and doing it well. If you give him negative feedback, there's going to be some problems here, because that's all he has left and you know it's. There's so much of a need to go through the soft stuff in the medical service corps like this and really do kind of an analysis. And this goes hand in glove with the stuff and all other genre of conversation that we could get into another time, but I'll leave that there. Like I said, that's a hot topic for me, but an interesting one nonetheless Shoot.

Speaker 1: 10:32

Yeah, we better not get into DEI. We might be here way too long. So your first main pillar is DEI.

Speaker 2: 10:38

I didn't say that's another 4684 and DEI are like the F-bomb. No, I said EI, emotional intelligence. Let's be real clear.

Speaker 1: 10:55

So, for anyone not aware, the number Mike is referencing was a drawdown in the medical service and it happened right before COVID. And so you know, obviously a very shock to the system where public health and other services were needed massively throughout the pandemic and things like that. So it made people kind of pause and wonder like, was that the right direction or decision to draw down medical forces when we do play a vital role? But we needed that kind of example to show that and unfortunately it came to came to the pandemic. But we'll get into the three main pillars. That's classic. Your first one, helping others discover identity and purpose. And so, mike, why do you think so many people struggle to find their true identity and purpose? You know?

Speaker 2: 11:32

an hour episode with the three pillars that we're going to go through is just shortchanging these conversations. But I'm going to give the absolute highest level of my answer to that. I think it's twofold. I think, first of all, we in America and then I would just say generally in kind of a global state, are very distracted and reactive, and I think both of those things put us in a state where we're not actually doing the hard work internally to look at ourselves and say I need to prune that off. Here's something that I'm really wrestling with. Let me allow myself some time to kind of wrestle with that and work it out in my mind and my heart. And this goes to a gratitude practice which I think anybody out there that's like man I'm a pessimist, I'm really depressed, I'm struggling with stuff. Let me just offer up a gratitude practice Four to five things every single morning. Write down that you're thankful for genuinely and then just allow your mind and your heart to think about those things, to meditate on those things. Nate, I'm a Christian, so for me this meditation is synonymous with my identity in Christ, but it doesn't have to be for those that are not a Christian. It's just one of those things that you're grateful for. And that moves into the identity question for sure, because once you understand what those things are at the most fundamental level, then you operate out of that identity. And that's what we're talking about with work-life balance. What is balance? What are you balancing towards if you have no idea at the core who you are, what you were designed for?

Speaker 2: 13:06

The analogy I like to offer to people and I'll pause after this when you were a sixth grader, you had some bullies in the cafeteria. You had a group of friends. I'm not going to say on air what my group of friends were. Maybe, if you bring me back for a part two, I'll share that. But you know, before the world got a hold of you, before society said you know Mike's six foot eight, he's got to be good at basketball, let's see what he can do. Before all of that, who were you Like? What were your gifts? What were you passionate about? What were those things that drew you in?

Speaker 2: 13:39

Naturally, and at some point we lose the wonder of life and life just starts to demand of us to shape us, to push us. And I woke up one day, two and a half years ago, and you know successful career, lieutenant Colonel in the Air Force, medical Service Corps officer, all intensive purposes. I was doing great. But I was not happy and I realized I had kind of been put in this position in my life that I didn't really want to be. I had excelled in certain areas, I got the accolades, they said great job. And I was like, oh, certainly I'm doing well. But I never took the moment to pause and say, but am I happy with where I am? Am I where I'm called to be? And that's a much more profound question. And I think when people are seeking how to find contentment in life, man, is that not the most important question you could ask yourself and then give yourself the time and space to really consider it?

Speaker 1: 14:34

So I'm curious. Well, I got two questions, but the first one is with that gratitude and thankfulness. I'm curious. Do you find yourself ever repeating the same ones or things like that? Does that have any loss? Where you're saying good health and family and friends, does that kind of lose its luster after a while? Or what does kind of those? Does it come and go or ups and downs, or what does that gratitude you know those five every day look like for you?

Speaker 2: 14:58

Yeah, definitely overlaps and I have kind of a go-to. I'll share this one live on air. This is straight to the audience. I'm going to break the curtain there. No, my daughter's smile is something that, for whatever reason, hits me in such a deep level, and every time I think about it I'm just overwhelmingly grateful for the opportunity to be a father, to love at a depth and in a way that I never thought was possible, and so that's kind of my cheat code, my shortcut, if I ever feel like, oh man, life's rough right now, there's a lot going on and I need just a quick fix of gratitude. I'll think about that. I'll think about my daughter kind of putting her hand on my cheek and giving me a hug, a kiss on the forehead or cheek, and yeah, that's my cheat code.

Speaker 1: 15:48

That's a good one. The other question I had was defining success. I find it just so interesting. So I had three different jobs in the Air Force. I was air traffic first and I moved over to contracting and I didn't have anything particularly against the jobs. They were fine, but I never felt the click. You know where you're really excited, you're ready to get in there, you're, you know, excited to take care of the people and things like that. And it wasn't until I found the medical service corps that like the stars aligned and you feel that click. And that's eight years in and, like I said, I had no idea what it was. So for someone that is out there and they, like you said, like I'm okay and I'm, you know, winning some stuff, I feel good, like how do you help them? Like, define, like good and okay and actually finding that purpose?

Speaker 2: 16:30

How do you know you've arrived or do you know Well, saying you've arrived is really an interesting phrase, but I think, allowing the space in solitude and silence, space in solitude and silence, and that's something that we miss in society in profound ways, especially in America, especially as Air Force officers. We're inundated with information and demands and stresses and responsibility, and so for me, an irreplaceable practice is 20, 30 minutes where I'm not reading, I'm not looking at anything, I'm just silent. And again, as a Christian, for me that's prayer, that's time with the Lord, which, by the way, for me prayer is not just me talking, it's also listening. There's a great Mother Teresa quote that I won't go into here, but well, I will, it's a great quote. It's a great quote. They asked her about her prayer life and she said, well, I pray, I pray to God. And they said, well, what does God do when you pray? She goes, he listens, and if you don't understand that, you don't understand prayer, and that perplexed me for so long. But anyways, I'll leave that there for your listeners to chew on a little bit.

Speaker 2: 17:37

No, I think having that time to meditate, to be free of the stresses of life, is super, super important. And what I tell people all the time is accolades are great, accolades are great. They make us feel good. There's something in our unique design that resonates with that. But what I'm talking about cuts way beyond external validation. It's an overflow of your heart, and there's only one way to get there, and that's to spend time with yourself. And if you're not spending time with yourself, then the answer is quite easy you don't know who you are, and so you're just putting on a mask and a facade. There's a great book and I'll have to share the title with you because I can't remember off the top of my head but it talks about egos, which are basically masks that people put on, and over time we add more and more masks because of the external validation that we receive, and it just feels good to be good at stuff, and I get that.

Speaker 2: 18:27

I fell into the exact same trap. But at some point, when you realize who you are, what you were designed for, what fills you up, you're going to start to do things that, by societal views, make zero sense. I mean I got a lot of flack, nate, when I said, hey, I'm getting out. They're like you just put on. Lieutenant Colonel, you're crazy. Five years until retirement. What are you doing? That's stupid. I'm like I can understand why from your perspective that's stupid, but for me it's a calling, it's something that I feel called to do, and so I'll leave that there. But did that kind of get at what you were asking?

Speaker 1: 19:06

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the next one is kind of to continue to expand on what you were talking about. I love actionable tips and tricks, so what tools or resources do you recommend for those seeking deeper self-recovery or discovery?

Speaker 2: 19:20

Wow, Discovery and recovery. Actually both are appropriate. You have to discover and recover from an external validation mindset, and there's a people-pleasing element to that I even think about. I'm 6'8", so I was pushed into basketball. But even the accolades I was conference first team, all-conference in high school, all-state, mcdonald's, all-american nominee, and so I was like surely this is the direction I'm supposed to head. And you never really pause and it's so easy to fall into that.

Speaker 2: 19:52

And so I guess what I would say to listeners as just a starting point, is what are those things, those mechanisms that pulled you into almost a train of thought, a particular career path, whatever, that is, that you didn't make a conscious decision or really spend the time to think is this who I am, what I want to do? And it's an easy answer for those that don't have any space to do that or take the time to meditate or be in silence. Guarantee you, guarantee you there's something propelling you externally. And I'm not saying all external validation or input is bad. Certainly, as a father, I love my children with all of my heart, I love my wife with all my heart, and so it's important to me that that connection is tight, and so certainly I'm always gauging the connection to make sure that I'm doing a good job as a father and as a husband.

Speaker 2: 20:45

But the question really is, what's driving you, what is at the core of who you are? And so, again, it just really goes back to people creating the space to do the hard work. And I do say I'll leave this here, nate, but I do say the hard work because I think people almost mystify this time and say I'm going to give my 20 minutes and then they get distracted with their phone or start thinking about all the stuff they have to do. The hard work is there's an intentionality behind this and that's really being present in that moment with yourself and for those Christians being present with the Lord. And that takes an intentionality, that takes an active role. That's not just like all right, I created the space, sweet, I was on my phone the whole time sending emails. It's like you didn't do it, you didn't do the hard. I was like this is the thing I have to do.

Speaker 1: 21:34

But like, at the deeper level, I didn't really understand and it was kind of an epiphany in the middle of my interview, which is probably not the right time. You should probably have that epiphany before the interview, but it was interesting because I remember this like complete match. And so they asked, like you know, why do you want to do it or something? And I had been to ALS and so I talked about the four lenses and I'm like I'm off the charts blue and orange, Like I have none of the other two at the time my brother and I'm like.

Speaker 1: 22:14

So I'm like, okay, so let me walk you through. Like how I'm the match Like orange, I get bored, I get stagnant, I have to continue to learn something or I just get bored out of my mind. So I'm like you change careers in essence, you know within one career field every couple of years, like I have wanted that for the longest time. And then I'm like, oh, I'm blue and I'm like you want to talk about, you know, parties. Like I annoy my wife because I'm walking around and checking on everyone hey, is the temperature good? Can I grab you a drink? Like I'm annoying her on how much I'm checking on the party. And like to your point, like that's me at my core, like that's me on the good day, that's me on Monday, that's me on Friday. Like it doesn't matter, that's me as, as who I am.

Speaker 1: 22:54

And so I think when you find that thing, like you don't have to think, you don't have to put any effort, extra effort or anything like that it really just like clicks, like that's that's who I'm bringing. Every day I'm going to help people. I'm also going to pass out of blood and needles, so I'm glad I'm not on the front side of the house, but I will help and take care of anyone anytime, and so I think that's really you know, kind of what you were saying. You just find that match where it's just the thing that it's supposed to be. And I think you know, like the silence, which I'm super glad you brought that up.

Speaker 1: 23:21

I know a few different guests have brought that up, but I'm glad you know we're bringing that up more and more because it just seems like we're supposed to go faster and do more and now we have Google, you can get any answer in a matter of seconds. We want fast food, everything's fast, but I think there's definitely something in that, in that slowing down and the quiet. That's super important. Anything else on that?

Speaker 2: 23:40

No, I think that's extremely well said, and when you're in that role or state to your point, it's just easier. It doesn't feel like work and I think part of the confusion again it goes back to external validation, because officers are oftentimes alpha personalities. They want to perform, they want to do well, they're going to grid it out. This is not to say that you can't flex. I flexed, I would say, the second half of my time at DHHQ on the financial side. I'm a blue orange as well, so my year with General Pi was great because she's also a blue orange, I would say, in terms of the work demand. I had to flex the gold a little bit, for sure, and a little bit of green to make sure the stuff getting to her made sense and was tight, but for sure, and a little bit of green to make sure the stuff getting to her made sense and was tight.

Speaker 2: 24:33

But it's not to say that we can't flex. That's going to take extra energy to do that and really what we're talking about is, by nature, who are you? And so there's people that aren't willing to take the risk and say you know what, 15 years I'm going to hop out. That's okay. I would never ask somebody to do that, but I think it's a worthwhile exercise to consider what those things are, that you naturally are, and just simply understand that when you're outside of that, there's a draw that's occurring. There's an energy draw that's occurring that'll have to be restored over time.

Speaker 1: 24:59

Yeah, it's interesting. It reminds me of two things. One I remember taking it ALS and they were like well, you can shift based on you know what kind of roles you're in and things like that. And I remember looking at my instructor, I'm like you're, you're crazy, I'm blue orange, I'm always going to be blue orange.

Speaker 1: 25:14

And then I had to take it at SOS and all of a sudden they've all kind of evened out, because now I have to have organization and that gold and the check boxes and moving through things and I have to be somewhat logical with the green and things like that.

Speaker 1: 25:27

So it is kind of funny because I thought that was baloney as a young senior airman and obviously you know, you think you know everything at the senior airman level, but that's not the case. And the other thing I find is so interesting is that SOS, not SOS, ots. I remember they said you'll have no bad days and so when I crossed over I was like I'm going to be tough and I'm going to be stern and I'm going to be, and that like lasts for a couple of months and you're tired and drained, like you're saying. And then I'm like OK, now I'm joking and you know, being the person I am and I always was, and so it's interesting that you said the egos and the mass, so you can try to kind of put it on there for a little while. I'm like, I'm uptight, I'm the officer, I'm like, oh no, I just got to be who I am and that's the rub.

Speaker 2: 26:09

A quick plug for General Pye, who I don't ever shy away from sharing openly how big of a fan I am of her, but have you ever met a general officer that was more authentically themselves? I mean there's. I don't know if you pop up photos here, but there's thousands of photos with her in a costume In SLW in 2019, she wore I think it was Princess Leia. Maybe I'm conflating too, but she is just who she is, and I think when you get to that level, kind of what you're saying, nate, there's a power and a strength. People can feel it's one thing to say something and it's like, okay, I've got subordinates, they're going to go execute this stuff. Sure, but how does your leadership make people feel? And when you're tapped into who you are and that's actually flowing out of you, there's a strength. There's a tangible strength behind that leadership, and Zach Gooch, a really, really good friend of mine, shared the story on my podcast.

Speaker 2: 27:09

It was General Pi's first day at DHHQ and she started a conversation around a desk and all of a sudden, there was 5 other people, 10 other people, 20. And maybe 45 minutes into it, there was a crowd of like 45, 50 people around her. She didn't call a meeting, she didn't ask anybody to come over, it was just her laugh was infectious. She was cracking jokes, she was connecting with people, she was learning who people were. She would make these fun little nicknames for people all the time. Mcrib is one that stands out. She literally called McRib McRib for like a year straight because he loved McRibs and that was then his name, and so that goes a little bit in the culture conversation. But yeah, no, I totally agree with what you're saying.

Speaker 1: 27:52

Be yourself. It took me you know 30 some odd years, but, geez, be yourself. The next pillar you have, mike, is the broken healthcare system. So can you touch on again, wavetops? Because, geez's, we could talk all day, but what? What are some of the biggest flaws in the current healthcare system?

Speaker 2: 28:08

Yeah, Wavetops Cause now we're. You know, identity is one thing and this is like all right, now we're in professional territory, so I can go 10 miles deep, all right, wavetops. So the U? S? Google online cost versus quality countries and you will find no shortage of graphs, data, research on cost versus quality and among the 10 highest GDP countries in the world. So, theoretically, the most established, the most successful, the US is the lowest in quality and highest in cost. But here's the thing You'd be like oh wow, that's kind of crazy. It's not even close. Nate, there's a grouping and that's the other nine. So it's like the nine are here and then the Medical Service Corps is.

Speaker 2: 28:53

I just saw what was happening on the outside and I've got all the license and certifications and master's degrees and all that stuff, and so I kind of have a unique insight into what it specifically means for the system to be broken. That term is kind of thrown out there. Right, people are like big pharma. It's like, yes, true, but what does that specifically mean? Like, what is international sourcing? What are referrals for the PBM? Like, how did these processes work? And so my desire, so who I am as an individual? Going back to the first, I can help somebody and they are appreciative and feel energized by me just serving them. So, combining that with my kind of clear understanding of what needs to occur and what's broken in the US healthcare system, those converge into the role that I'm in now with IOA.

Speaker 1: 30:05

That's a perfect segue. What would an ideal healthcare system look like if you could build it from the ground?

Speaker 2: 30:12

up. There's no way that I'm reading the questions and placing transitions for you, nate, I'm also like I understand as well that I'm going a little bit deeper. This is the problem when you give a podcast host a microphone to talk because we're used to asking questions it's like oh, I can pontificate a little bit here. What would be an ideal healthcare system? Okay, right off the rip, and let me couch this a little bit as it relates to the US healthcare system, I think it's a separate conversation to say if we restored healthcare in the world, what would that look like?

Speaker 2: 30:44

Let me couch it in the US healthcare system as it relates to it being broken. How do we get it to a state that's functional? The number one answer, I would say, is transparency, without a question, transparency. And then, specifically in the pharmaceutical industry, if we could get to price transparency, I think people sense and feel that what is happening is not good High level wave tops. Right. If there was transparency in why, I think there would be an outcry from employers, from employees, from US citizens, and I think if they saw a peek behind the curtain, there'd be a lot of things occurring up at Congress for sure, very quickly.

Speaker 1: 31:22

So do you think that would be like the price of aspirin is always the price of aspirin and things like that. Or can you expand on what you mean by transparency?

Speaker 2: 31:31

Yeah, and again, just staying with the pharmacy side, I think we're lagging behind. I got to be careful here, nate. So we are lagging behind other countries in terms of regulatory reform and legislature, as it relates to price transparency, capping necessary medications and I am very familiar with all the conversations because we are by far one of the most innovative countries in terms of pharmaceutical development, r&d. Specialized healthcare Sure, yes, I will concede those facts for sure. But when we talk about laying in the pharmaceuticals programmatically across the United States I'm going to use a term here this might get me into some trouble they are price gouging US citizens, simple enough. Look at the definition of price gouging and I'll back that up by saying there is some lawyers right now going after Fortune 10, fortune 50 companies for that exact thing.

Speaker 2: 32:29

Officers in those publicly traded companies have a fiduciary responsibility for their stakeholders and how they lead and govern their employees. Well, when you're charging somebody $1,000 for a $10 medication, there's a problem with that. And you're going to say, oh, that's what the health plan says. Okay, you're the CEO, you are responsible to your stakeholders, and charging an additional $990. And now we're talking lay that out. Let's say, you've got 100,000 employees. We're not talking about $990. We're talking about $20 million for a single drug, obviously speaking of the Fortune 10 companies, and so that's what the lawyers are going after.

Speaker 2: 33:08

But when I say transparency, that's what I mean. I don't think people realize just how big the numbers get, and that's really all I want to do. It's why I do a free analysis for companies. I just want them to see what's happening and, from somebody with a master's degree or several master's degree certifications, to go in to look at the nuances, to look at the complicated nature of healthcare and say, hey, you are getting quote gouged for $10 million over here, oh, and here's another 19 million, so on and so forth.

Speaker 2: 33:38

That's my goal, that's my mission. It's not about money, but this is the sweet spot, right? You talk about being yourself and, after you became an officer, having fun and kind of cutting it up with your staff. This is me. I want to go into the complicated stuff and serve people, and so I'm living out my passion, I'm living out who I am, and it's a really exciting season to be in, because everything is coming to a point. Right now in the healthcare system, there's a demand for change, there's a demand for change, there's a demand for innovation. There's things happening with price transparency, rfk Jr, with Trump pushing certain reforms in the healthcare industry, it is perfect time for the stuff that we're doing with IOA.

Speaker 1: 34:18

That's awesome. So for all the people that are out there have no experience, aren't healthcare things like that? Maybe this is out of order, but maybe, to back up a little bit, could you kind of walk us through incentive structure and how that doesn't really play to like good, you know, good health outcomes Sure Again wavetop.

Speaker 2: 34:35

So we'll stay. We'll stay on the pharmaceutical side, cause that's, this is the lowest hanging fruit. Like when you know, when you go into a new organization and obviously you want to do a good job, and so your commander's like, all right, tell me what you think. And you go in. You're like this person is taking a medical record, they're scanning it, they're faxing it to themselves, then they're loading it back in for a digital record. You're like, oh my gosh, awesome, right off the rip I could save two FTEs because I just need to scan it and go. That kind of stuff, it's so obvious. That is the pharmaceutical industry right now in America. It's the lowest hanging fruit, but the amounts associated with it are astronomically big. So the reason for this, for the pharmaceutical side, again, that's where we'll stay.

Speaker 2: 35:27

Okay, so two points. So international outsourcing for pharmaceuticals is how we can save money pretty easily. There's an inflated cost with manufacturing, with development, all sorts of stuff. That again, I'll stay high level. That would keep that in the United States. It's why everybody uses the US, inside the US, for their pharmaceuticals. Well, there's precedent now in certain states Colorado is one of them, florida, there are several others that allow legally to outsource through Canada, where medications are a 10th the cost in the US, and so there's absolutely regulated, professional, very clear lines of effort to just simply outsource through Canada for pharmaceuticals. The second, and talking specifically about the incentive structure, is PBMs. Pharmacy benefit managers get rebates for certain drugs, and so they have a tiered list and I won't go too deep into that, but they have a tiered list of what is an approved medication and that is directly tied to how much money the PBM gets back. I'm going to pause there. Did you hear what I just said, nate?

Speaker 1: 36:32

Yeah, how wild is that.

Speaker 2: 36:34

Yeah, I mean. So. It's so obvious when you peel back the curtain you're like what? That's illegal.

Speaker 1: 36:40

No, it's not. And all these things we always talk about checks and balances and government, or even like the government purchase card, Someone's got to check it and make sure. It's just kind of wild to think, like you said you say it out loud like no one really checks out, Like they just get money for choosing certain things that maybe not be the best for the patient.

Speaker 2: 36:57

But we're talking about trillions of dollars. This isn't like a couple million dollars that we could save in the Air Force. We're talking about trillions of dollars, and so that's why I use the word transparency. I want people to see what those things are. I want them to see why the costs of medications are so high, and it's not the only way. There are regulated alternatives that are both legal and professionally managed that can cut costs by 50% or more for a lot of these employers.

Speaker 1: 37:26

So that's a perfect segue again into the next question. So you're someone, you work at the company. You're not the boss, you're just part of a plan. What can individuals do to take charge of their own health?

Speaker 2: 37:37

Yeah Well, let me back up here Take charge of their health or take charge of their health plan Two separate conversations.

Speaker 1: 37:46

Maybe both. I mean, if you have a better plan, you have better health, right?

Speaker 2: 37:49

All right, I will stay really high level here. Nate, I promise you Okay, Okay Health plan. Just reach out to me I'm happy to do a free assessment with. I'm not looking for money, I'm not looking to get paid, I'm not looking for your business necessarily. If it goes well, great. But genuinely, like I said, I want to help people see the nuances of their health plans and save them money.

Speaker 2: 38:10

Individual health, I would say consistency is the enemy of mediocrity, and if my wife listens to this episode, she's going to smile because she hears me say that all the time. Consistency is the killer Above any extreme diet program, any workout program. If you're consistent, you will win. And so one of those things that you can commit to consistently sometimes it's just getting out and doing a one mile walk or jog every single day Pick those things that you can be consistent with Drinking water, getting sleep. There's so many things that are universally accepted but not many people actually implement them. Well, take those things I just listed a few Drink water, get better sleep, get moving, Do it with consistency, Build a habit, build a routine and then add to it.

Speaker 2: 38:53

So my personal transformation. So two and a half years ago, I was 285 pounds and I went on a personal journey, spiritually, mentally, physically, where I found myself one day I was 220 pounds and ripped like gained. A ton of muscle was just shredded, and that was less to do with me trying to get shredded and more to do with I had an intentionality, I had a plan that I committed to, and one of those things was working out, and so I listened to Audible. I would listen to a book every single morning while I worked out, and a good friend of mine, Ben Garland, recommended to me Miracle Morning, and so I used that as the structure for about a year and then kind of adapted it to be my own over time. But that's what I would recommend consistency.

Speaker 1: 39:36

So I'd like to try to get you to expand a little bit more on the health plans. I love the connection to you and getting that help and things like that, but connection to you and getting that help and things like that. But are there documents that someone can download or they're huge red flags or the things someone could go and like log into their account or you know? I mean I guess it's based, probably maybe too broad for for everybody because their plans are so different. But are there things that, like you know universally, where you could check on a few things and see if it's completely out of whack?

Speaker 2: 40:02

So we're getting in the territory of claims data and understanding international outsourcing. I would say this here's an answer If you're able to discern whether or not your pharmaceuticals are coming from the US or outside the US, that's a great starting point. If they're coming from the US, I can guarantee you, guarantee you, I'd put money on it. I bet anybody out there that's listening that you are overpaying significantly for your pharmacy benefit. I think once you get in and let's just say this, I'm just going to say this out loud the healthcare industry is, I think, intentionally messy and complex, because that creates a barrier to entry for HR directors, cfos, people that don't have an MHA or a fellow of the American College of Healthcare Executives or a licensed health benefits broker. You need all of these things to just simply understand how to look at the nuances of the plan, and so I would say start there, start with the international outsourcing. If you can discern that and certainly there's other stuff I don't want to go outside of the pharmacy because then it gets incredibly complex. So, just for reference, when I would go in and I would take on a healthcare plan for an employer, which is what I do as a Senior Vice President of Strategic Partnerships with IOA.

Speaker 2: 41:23

I kind of stand in the gap of a Cigna, blue Cross, blue Shield. There's about 30 to 40, maybe more, maybe less, is that I'm going to look at. So, stop loss, mental vision, all these different things that have their own categories, and within those categories there's deep, deep nuances to how to implement those programs, and so it's so complex that it keeps the everyday people out, it keeps the HR director out, it keeps the CFO out. So could they go in and save money? Sure, but it's extremely complicated. And it's exactly why they require licenses and master's degrees and certifications, because if you go in and you muck something up, people's lives are at risk. And oh, by the way, there's like stacks of law, there's stacks of state law, all sorts of stuff that would keep the everyday person from looking at their health plan, which I think, is by design.

Speaker 1: 42:15

Dang. That's definitely eye-opening. It seems like it's there for a reason. Your last pillar is giving to the nations in the deepest area of poverty. So what first inspired you to serve communities in extreme poverty?

Speaker 2: 42:27

Yeah. So this is like a super personal question to me, because I'm ashamed to say that. I think distraction is something that keeps us from considering the rest of the world we are. There's nobody in America that's not wealthy. There's an extreme statement by worldly standards. You know, when we're talking about the 1040 window, which is that area over in Asia and I'll leave people to Google that on their own time but we're talking about 80 plus percent of the world's poverty. So you know we can go get clean water and have a drink. That is not the case in the 1040 window. There's food available at pretty much every single corner also not available. There's these things that we take for granted, and I think that's another opportunity for us to be grateful in America, but it's also a calling for us to Okay.

Speaker 2: 43:19

So there's a book called the Trellis and the Vine Great book, but it also talks about poverty, and so, by American standards, we often consider poverty as a direct association with material poverty. Great Sure, there's people that have less money, have less means, absolutely. But there's also spiritual poverty, and so the great irony of life is you could go over to some of these very remote cities in the 1040 window, some of these very remote cities. In the 1040 window, these remote towns or tribes or villages, spiritual wealth is through the roof. And when I say spiritual, you could take that a myriad of ways. I'm not necessarily just saying spiritual in terms of my faith in Christ, but spiritual just in terms of gratitude, abundance, you know, contentment. What's contentment? Great, these are good words. So there's a transfer of quote wealth that I think we're being called into as Americans, because there's so many Americans that are just in deep, deep spiritual poverty, deep spiritual poverty. And the great irony of life is often those with the highest material wealth have the greatest spiritual poverty, and so I think the beauty of this is we can transfer material wealth to those that have spiritual wealth, and the beauty of it is that in return we get spiritual wealth, even though we may be losing some of our material wealth, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 44:42

So I was introduced to this by one of my best friends, kj Rendawa, who was a classmate of mine. He simultaneously got out at 14 and a half years from the Air Force, also on a great career trajectory, was doing extremely well, probably one of the greatest leaders I've ever met in my life. So he moved out here to Colorado Springs, actually three minutes up the road from this new house, which is crazy. But he joined aimsorg as the international mobilization director and I love this man and I love his heart, and so I was introduced by him to the great, great need and really as a medical service corps officer.

Speaker 2: 45:15

I love the structure. They basically have a CRM that organizes all the business requirements and so they have these local native businesses that sustain villages, tribes, local areas and basically infuses commerce through microloans. It's a really, really intriguing and well-organized model. You could go into any excuse me Fortune 500 company and it'll rival that shoulder to shoulder, which I've never seen in a nonprofit ministry organization, and so I love their efficiency, I love the way they do what they do and certainly the need itself is tremendous.

Speaker 1: 45:53

That's awesome. That is some really good stuff. I'm curious, I love stories, so I'm hoping can you share a story where you've seen the impact from giving time, talent and treasure, rather than just money?

Speaker 2: 46:04

You know, I think rather than a specific incident, because I want to be careful with anonymity and respecting names and people but certainly the greatest joy of my life is mentoring people, pouring into them, and I'll say this if you don't have a mechanism for giving back, I'm not even going to say like shame on you or anything like that. What I'm going to say is you're missing out, because we were created to give. I guarantee you, at the very core of who you are as a human being, there's something inside of you that wants to give your time, treasure and talent, and so for me, it's life-giving to spend the time, the intentionality, and there's nothing that can replace this eye contact. I mean it's life-giving to spend the time, the intentionality, and there's nothing that can replace this eye contact. I mean it's even better face-to-face, right, because you can feel and feed off each other. Nate, you and I have great chemistry, but it's even better in person.

Speaker 2: 46:57

You get something from that transaction at one of the deepest levels that you can understand. And then, obviously, the people that you're giving that to there's at a minimum appreciation, but you have an opportunity to share experiences, to give sacrificially to these people that are in great need, and we've already broken out two of those distinctions. There's spiritual and material, but there's so many other things and the transaction is there. It's not just one way, and I think a lot of people want to think oh, I'm giving, it's one way. They get, I get nothing. Nope, ask anybody that is wealthy that gives away millions of dollars. Ask them how they feel about giving. I guarantee you most of them will say it's the most significant thing they do, because we're hardwired to think and feel that way.

Speaker 1: 47:42

That's the way that we were designed. Well, mike. The final takeaway if someone is feeling lost in purpose or overwhelmed by today's problems.

Speaker 2: 47:52

What's one piece of advice you'd give them? Yeah, I'm going to stay on theme here. Just to be concise and simple, I'm going to say take the time, take the time. And you're going to say I don't have the time and I'm going to challenge you on that.

Speaker 2: 48:03

I think so many Americans are inundated with things and they're feeding their body like crap. They're not reading books to grow and the sad reality of that a lot of them are drinking alcohol. They're robbing themselves of good sleep and restoration, they're not doing the things with intentionality and time to get to a good space, and so they wake up in the morning 7, 7.30, roll out of bed, head straight to work. They're depressed, they're pessimistic.

Speaker 2: 48:30

You will get more energy, you will have more time when you start to do those things that you know are good, and that was the origins of the it Is Good podcast. Quick plug it Is Good podcast. Sorry, nate, but that's the genesis of laying in those things that you trust and have faith. The outcome will be good. And I think the lie that a lot of people believe is I don't have the time. Change some stuff and see how much time you have. I get seven hours of sleep a night and it's great rest. I feel really energized. I have a ton of energy, my mental clarity is through the roof, but I also don't eat junk food regularly. I don't drink, I take care of myself, I'm intentional, I allocate time to things that are important, and I think I would say that same thing to the listeners Spend the time and be intentional.

Speaker 1: 49:18

There is time if you make it Well. Thank you, mike, for coming out. I wanted to ask you where can people connect with you and learn a little bit more about you? I guess you just mentioned it.

Speaker 2: 49:28

Yeah, my tag is at TallMikeMcClain. I'm 6'8". By the way, for those that don't know, At TallMikeMcClain I've got a podcast. It is a good podcast. Connect with me on LinkedIn. That's a great way to start.

Speaker 1: 49:52

That's probably my primary primary social media on LinkedIn. Perfect. Well, that's a wrap. Thanks for tuning in. Don't forget to keep the conversation going. Find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube or Buzzsprout and share your thoughts, Please, if you can drop a review. I love you all. See ya, Thank you.