MindForce: Mental Fitness, Leadership & Life Stories
Welcome to MindForce: Mental Fitness, Leadership & Life Stories — hosted by Nate Scheer, a Christian dedicated to exploring the power of faith, resilience, and personal growth. This podcast dives deep into the real-life stories behind leadership, healing, and navigating adversity with purpose. Through honest conversations and biblical perspective, Nate connects with guests who have overcome challenges, built mental strength, and found meaning in the mess. Whether you're in the military, ministry, or simply on a journey to lead yourself and others well, MindForce will encourage you to lead with heart, live with hope, and grow through every season.
***The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individual(s) involved and do not reflect the official policy or position of the United States Air Force, the Department of Defense, or any other agency of the United States Government.***
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MindForce: Mental Fitness, Leadership & Life Stories
Fractured Skull to Trauma Therapist: A Story of Resilience w/ Daniel Gospodarek
I would love to hear from you!
Trauma therapist Daniel Gospodarek shares his powerful journey from surviving a traumatic brain injury at 17 to helping others heal from their own traumas. Through candid conversation, he reveals the physical, mental, and spiritual dimensions of recovery and how facing adversity ultimately shaped his life's purpose.
• Daniel survived a car accident in 2009 requiring brain surgery, creating a stroke in his left frontal lobe, and leaving him with a fractured skull and collapsed lung
• He endured 17 months of speech therapy, physical therapy, and extreme fatigue sleeping 14-16 hours daily during recovery
• TBIs present differently in everyone—severity of injury doesn't always correlate with recovery outcomes
• The mental and emotional challenges were as difficult as physical ones, including grief, self-anger, and social isolation
• Recovery required immense patience and accepting that one cannot rush the healing process
• Daniel found that tapping into emotions, ancestral strength, mindfulness, and spirituality provided inner strength
• As a trauma therapist, he now uses somatic experiencing to help clients track bodily sensations and process trauma
• Daily practices for healing include intentional solitude, nervous system regulation, and prioritized living
• Men often avoid therapy due to stigma, fear of vulnerability, and concerns about how others will perceive them
• Adversity ultimately defines us if we allow enough time for that process to unfold
https://www.revitalizementalhealth.com/about-daniel-gospodarek/
Welcome to another episode of Mindforce. I'm Nate Shearer, and together we'll explore the mindsets and ideas that shape our lives. Today we'll be talking about traumatic brain injuries, a story of recovery and overcoming adversity, a little bit about trauma therapy and healing from that trauma. We'll start with the background. Let's start with a quick introduction. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you, what do you do and what brings you here today.
Speaker 2:Hey, thank you for having me, nate. I'm Daniel Gaspodarek. I'm a trauma therapist based outside of Milwaukee, wisconsin, a little area called Kenosha, and I primarily work with men who've experienced trauma and helping them heal, reconnect with their mind, body, improve their relationships and their self-confidence and just here to speak a little bit about that as well as traumatic brain injuries, and that's kind of what directed me to become a therapist.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah, I wanted to thank you, daniel, for taking your time. I think time is such a precious commodity and I think a lot of us could say we're too busy and things like that. So taking a time, even an hour, out of your day, to help others, I think, is pretty noble and something a lot of people don't do. We'll transition into the warm up. I'm curious, daniel can you share a little bit about yourself and what led you to the journey of healing?
Speaker 2:a little bit about yourself and what led you to the journey of healing. Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned, it was July 2009 in a car accident. At first didn't know what happened because I was unconscious, but then you know, as the pain meds wear off and stuff like that, you kind of start to see the reality. But I needed brain surgery Stroke in my left frontal lobe, fractured skull, collapsed lung, some hearing loss in the left ear but from there it was this kind of weird, weird transition out of a chemically induced coma and then into ICU and then inpatient rehab speech therapy for 17 months and then physical therapy for three months.
Speaker 1:Dang, that's rough. What do you think was the most difficult part of that journey?
Speaker 2:Most difficult. There's quite a few experiences that passed that threshold. Yeah, I'm just kind of reflecting on some of it. But I mean from a physical standpoint you go from being a highly active 17 year old that works out three times a week, four times a week, to losing 20 pounds because you're on a feeding tube and you know you can barely walk. So like that that was pretty challenging.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's pretty rough. What do you think is the biggest thing that people don't understand about TBI?
Speaker 2:they have never spoke again. And then there's me, that you know has made it through. And then there are some people who have minor, more minor tpis and their entire life is just gone. They can't work, you know, but he leaves around them because maybe they have challenges with anger or impulsiveness, like that complexity piece, I feel like, is the biggest, like unknown thing but that's also unknown in the medical community about, like why is this right? It's just, you know, just like drawing straws.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting. Have you noticed there's anything where people like judge you or kind of miscategorize you, or how do you go about? Do you like kind of educate people as you go, or what's been something where it's been like a difficult situation where someone didn't quite understand you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I mean the difference between like brain injury, brain injured, or like brain injury versus like brain damaged, like that's that. I think the brain damage piece carries a little stigma and I'll say something around those conversations. But it's kind of tricky. You know, like you have a brain injury and yet when you go to apply for jobs they're like do you have any disabilities and traumatic brain injuries on there? I'm like, I mean, technically I have one, but do I feel like I have a disability? No, you know. So it's like where do I fall on that threshold? Will they not consider me for a job if I check that box Right?
Speaker 1:Will they consider me for a job if I check that box, right? Will they consider me for a job if I check that box more? So, right, I don't know. Yeah, that's interesting. So have you seen like the after effects? Is there a way that that?
Speaker 2:goes well, I don't know what the after effects are. I mean, either you get them or you don't, right, I don't, I'm not in the decision making process and I don't know what goes on back there behind hr's doors, whatever, but it just, it just kind of like brings up, like I'm like huh, that's. That's interesting, right.
Speaker 1:It's now. I'm kind of intrigued, Like does it help you, Cause I could really, like you said, it seems really 50, 50,. Like oh, we got to give this guy a chance. Or like, oh, we don't want to mess with that.
Speaker 2:Like that could really go.
Speaker 1:Either way, I hope they keep it. You know, some type of unbiased and give people, everyone a good opportunity. I hope so too yeah hopefully Before we get into the three main pillars. Daniel, I wanted to see if you had a question for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's not. Why did you start this podcast? Right, but what is your end goal with the podcast?
Speaker 1:My end goal is really, I think, education and awareness and just making people better. I mean, I guess that's vague and maybe cliche. I feel like sometimes I'm kind of a walking cliche A lot of the things I say. But if that's something I truly feel, even if it is cliche, I kind of have to say it, you know, even though it might feel that category. But yeah, I just want people to be better.
Speaker 1:I really started the show, you know, off a basis of losing my grandma to mental health as a kid and her not being able to express herself and things like that, and so I just hope that some story that's shared by myself or a guest connects with somebody and somehow it enhances or improves someone's life. I think that's really it Like if we, you know, improve some lives, help some people, really save anyone from making a permanent decision for a temporary problem. There's so many things going on self-isolating, getting to those downward spiral if we can get, you know, people out of those things. But even on the daily stuff, I mean that's kind of the extreme case, but we've talked about journaling on here and meditation and deep breaths and things like that. So really, if someone takes something from this, puts it into practice, takes those deep breaths and their life's a little bit better. Like the time and effort that I put on, I think it really is all worth it. So yeah, I just hope you know something helps somebody along the way.
Speaker 1:And I think you never know, because I know I've had guests. You know I've written them like, oh, I don't want to come on the show, I don't have something that's valuable enough. I don't think that's true. We have no idea what someone needs out there. So let's record it, let's put it out there. You know, maybe it doesn't help me, but it's not about me. Or you know, you know the guests particularly. It's really about whoever's out there. So I'll record whatever and we'll put it out there and hopefully it'll help someone along the way.
Speaker 1:Maybe someone's suffering from something similar and I think that's like the core of like losing my grandma, I think, like she didn't feel like she could talk to anyone else and so she just spiraled, I think hearing it, even if it's something parallel. I think that's another important thing. Like we might not find someone that's been the exact same there's a billion of us, We've all lived a little different life but if you know someone's going through something that's even parallel. I think that already makes you feel a little bit better.
Speaker 1:Ok, bad stuff, but they've gotten through it, and so the one thing I want to stress on this show is the success afterwards, I feel like a lot of times we talk about the warning signs and the negative aspects, and in the military we have to go to all these classes and talk about, you know, people giving away their stuff and the warning signs when their people are suicidal and things like that, but we don't seem to do a good job of highlighting them after them getting the car they wanted, them getting married to the person they liked, and you know, these things that happened on the successful side, after bouncing back, and that was way longer than you wanted, Daniel.
Speaker 2:It was a good one. My one of my old supervisors just to kind of piggyback off that shared with me how she approaches like her therapeutic work is like you may not change that person that you're directly listening or is listening or engaging in therapy, but you may change somebody else's that is listening to that person. And she used the example of like most of us have heard of Helen Keller, right, but how many of us know who her teacher's name was? Right, so we forget. That's a good one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2:And that's how I look at like some of these podcast episodes and doing this right Like you don't know who you're going to hit or who it's going to resonate with, or who is it going to resonate with and share somebody that it may impact right Like that ripple effect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, you never know. We just got to put it out there and see what it connects with. Your first pillar, daniel, is the TBI story. So if you could walk us through the moment that changed your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so July 2009,. We were coming back from, from it was me, I was in the passenger seat just a one car, say just, but it was. I mean I'm thankful it was only us, but just a one car rollover. Yeah, I asked, look, drop something. I looked down to and my the driver, um, was pulling off a panel to get to the. I dropped my house key to get to the panel and the last thing I remember is just seeing the different circuit colors after the panel and then waking up and actually I thought I was in France because I never had gone through like a big time change before. I don't know, like I guess going through a coma is kind of different than just going to sleep and waking up from a strange dream. But I thought I was in France and I had gone through the time change. It was very bizarre. And then, like you know, as I'm coming to, I'm like looking around, I was like this is not France, you know. And then you see like the heart monitors and know the tube sticking out and everywhere, and so it's kind of like a, like a, like a matrix thing, if you will right, like reality is distorted. But yeah, then you're slow and steady from there.
Speaker 2:They kept me in a coma for three days. They would put me in a few for the next few days in the evening and let me come out at night or, I'm sorry, during the day. 10 days ICU First steps were with a wheelchair and three nurses around me and seven days inpatient rehab. And the fatigue is horrible, with a traumatic brain injury. For some people and mine was took about two and a half years to fade. Some people some people have fatigue that never fades if I've met and some people don't have any fatigue. Um, so that was rough. And then it was inside that seven day rehab that I was like I'm probably gonna land somewhere in these types of professions, just not knowing where nursing, nursing, pt, ot, stuff like that and then, after seven days, 17 months of speech therapy almost two to three times a week and then physical therapy for two to three times a week too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from there it was just a lot of the mental struggles at times were really hard, especially once I started getting concussions from just like very nebulous things, like bonking my head on a open cupboard, like things you would just kind of write off as if you didn't have a TBI would give me a concussion. And then, like then anxiety and worry, all that stuff started spiraling so I'd have to go to bed at eight to fall asleep by 10. You know, like that self-anger, all that stuff was in there. So just like you really start to see like the mental health aspects that just kind of spiral off after a while. But then you know we were talking about the physical piece is hard right with the tbi, but so too, like being 17, 18 at the time, so finishing up high school and not being able to stay out at bonfires and stuff with friends, so you lose some of those social connections. I think there's grief and loss that comes with that yeah, a lot to process there.
Speaker 1:So for the fatigue, are you mentioning like physical fatigue, or is that more like mind fog type thing or just physically tired both?
Speaker 2:like. Like I mean, the mind fog was there and that lasted a long time, but just the physical fatigue. I would sleep almost like 14 to 16 hours a day. So I would go to school for two, three hours for high school, come home, take a two, three hour nap, be up for four or five hours and then still go to sleep by eight before my concussion started happening, and I would sleep till six like nothing see how'd you get through classes and things like that.
Speaker 1:You just kind of had that modified schedule yes, I.
Speaker 2:So my first semester had two half days and then second semester had a full day and a half day, and I was still taking those types of naps on the half days oh yeah, it was a lot.
Speaker 1:That's a whole other challenge by itself, isn't it, huh? So I kind of asked earlier hopefully it's not a repeat but what do you think the biggest challenges were in the early stages, and do you have any advice for someone that is in an early stage of an injury like that?
Speaker 2:yeah so.
Speaker 2:So this was, it was in the early stage, but it also was like a year out.
Speaker 2:It's like this impulse just to get it done right and and just heal and so you can get back to your world, your life, how it was, and like, the more you it's almost like the more you attention you give that impulse, like the stronger it becomes and then like there's so much acceptance and, if you want to call it like even like self-forgiveness, for just like being patient and being in the present moment and letting your body do what it needs to do, because you can't rush that process.
Speaker 2:It's just like training, for you don't set out one day and you're like, okay, I'm gonna run a marathon or even an ultra you know an ultra run or something like that like it takes a lot of training, a lot of patience, even though there's a lot of effort being put in on the back end. But there are some times where I was just like boom, like let's get this done. But it does not work like that and there's, I mean, results in a lot of anger, and I can tell you that from personal experience, because I was trying to rush myself.
Speaker 1:Be patient. I'm sure that is much easier said than done, but that's cliche too, right. Yeah, yeah, be patient. Yeah, it sounds good. I'm curious that you have a girlfriend or do sports or like your friends. Were there other things that you kind of lost that you know most people might not think about, kind of the second and third order effects, or was there a lot of support around you from, like your friends and stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean I had a lot of support around my friends. My high school worked really, was really open to like adjusting my schedules and even like had an assembly to say hey, like well, not an assembly just for this, but, like you know, welcome back to school. Side note like please watch out for this person on the stairs, like don't push them, you know, or anything like that like horseplay thing, like that like horseplay.
Speaker 2:But I think like the one part that was really hard too was that they took my license for X amount of months just because of possible seizure activity after a TBI. So that kind of like lack of freedom right was hard. Didn't really get in the car with anyone else outside of family and the person that I got into the accident with because he, he, he and his family pretty much saved my life afterwards with like calling 911 and everything and getting EMS there and responding quickly, and not only responding quickly but also effectively because they were going to take me to a low trauma hospital. But my buddy's mom is a nurse and she was like no, he needs to go here right away because he might be brain dead by the time you get him checked in and sent over.
Speaker 1:So dang, that's tough. Have you read james clear's book atomic habits? Because he had right got hit in the face of the baseball bat, yeah, and then had to. So I'm wondering, from your standpoint, what were those things that you use? Because I feel like a lot of times we throw out buzzwords, like to kind of play off the cliche. We say resilience and things like that, but in those dark times, those difficult times, where did you find inner strength? Like, how did you process that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's I mean, and I think, like this is why I love podcasts, right, it's because you can. You can be really raw and reach millions of people, right? Or thousands of people, hundreds of thousands. So one was in your emotions, like it came, like tapping into the power that's in emotions. Another one was I heard this old well, I don't know how old it is, I don't want to say that but I heard on a YouTube clip of I come as one one, but I stand as 10 000 for, like your ancestors. So I found a lot of power in that, given, like what you know other generations went through. You know, great depression. My grandfather was in korea, you know, like those. So leaning into, leaning into some of those pieces was huge for me, also bringing in like spirituality, right, mindfulness, and then, once I got cleared, I was back in the gym and that's getting back after that physical stuff.
Speaker 1:I think perspective is super important and again, I feel like it might be another cliche thing, but that's something I've always drawn on. Like I lost my dad and that was super difficult and my mom's kind of asked me we had an episode on grief where I I my mom onto the show and she's like, how do you process? And I try to, I guess, go more logically and I kind of, like you had said, I know there's other people that have been through difficult things and losing a parent is not fun, of course. But I think of this weird example. For some reason I forget in what state it was, but there was a duck boat tour thing and one of the girls lost her entire family, like she went to school or something or she got I forgot what happened, but she wasn't on the tour for some reason and stayed back and then she lost her entire family, like mom, dad, brothers, sisters, like all of them in one day, randomly, and like.
Speaker 1:So I don't want it to compare, like I don't mean it in that way, but there's just so many things that so many difficult things and people do get through and and whatnot. So I try to process and, I guess, become like rational, like it's not fun, but there are other difficult things out there, so kind of similar.
Speaker 2:Like you said, we've been through a lot of different things definitely yeah, I lost my dad too, and that's it's a lot of it things Mm-hmm. Definitely yeah, I lost my dad too, and that's a lot of it's interesting, you know, you think about it, or I mean you think about like people passing away. Maybe it crosses people's minds. It did for me even before it happened, and then when it comes, it's like nothing that you ever anticipated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the weird part for me I don't know if it's just me personally, but the parts that hurt me the most are the smaller things and I thought that it's always been kind of odd because I think a lot of people think of, like, the birthdays and you know the big events and you know those are obviously difficult, like we just did my sister's wedding earlier this year and that was pretty difficult. But the ones that catch me for whatever reason, are things that don't really matter. They're pretty small in the grand scheme of things. So active duty Air Force and we went to a different uniform a couple years ago and I thought it would have been cool to call my dad and be like oh, we're switching uniforms.
Speaker 1:It's always kind of a joke. You got to get the new stuff and the sewing and you got to pay money and it's out of your own pocket. So it's kind of this inconvenience where you switch uniforms and it's something that he would know and identify also being in the Air Force, going from BDUs to ABUs hopefully not throw out too many acronyms but when we switch uniforms and it was just something like it'd be cool to call him like oh, another uniform, it's not a big day, it's not a you know monumental. It's not a big day, it's not a you know monumental thing.
Speaker 1:But that day I was like dang I'd really like to just make that call. Yeah, call like doesn't mean that much. Well, I guess it did to me. But that's something I think is odd, where I think back to your point earlier, like tbi, I guess unrelated, but like just processing humans is difficult. I, I think we want this cookie cutter A is B is C and this perfect flow chart roadmap thing, and that's just not how we work. We're all just a little bit different.
Speaker 1:Like I remember I hadn't drove stick shift in a while and I was out in Japan on the other side of the car and I was driving to work and my new car happened to be a stick shift and I lost my grandpa many years before that. But I remember sitting in this old, I think, beat up Toyota or Nissan or whatever it was, on a dirt road and going into first and going into first and going into first because he wouldn't let me go second, third, fourth, until I'd figured out first, because that's the most difficult one, because after that you can go through the gears pretty easily. And my drive to work. I realized like I'm enjoying this thing where I love to shift through the gears as a 30, whatever 35 year old male, you know, and all that is because a grandpa sat with me and did that a long, long time ago, and so those moments for me are like, oh, I was, I was just crushed. I sat in the parking lot when I got to work and just bawled because he put the time in, you know.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I know, I get those too, even with, you know, recently moving back from Colorado back to my home state in Wisconsin and you know being like, oh, like this is the last house my dad remembers us being in, you know, or like we don't have any memories in the new house with him, you know, like, like, just those weird things show up, and it's not like you said, it's not always these big things like birthdays or holidays, it's just like, oh, like I remember seeing him in the driveway shoveling snow when I was watching him from the front window.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy, I guess, like maybe you're prepared, maybe mentally, and you know the birthdays and stuff are coming up. Maybe that's why I don't know, but the unexpected have been pretty tough. But I wanted to ask another question.
Speaker 1:We kind of talked about the inner strength but, something else I was curious about and I really like to try to push these on the show is practical advice. I think on a lot of books and different stuff they talk about a lot of hypotheticals and things like that, but I think actionable tips are super important. So was there something you took away, a lesson you learned that was completely unexpected over the course of the time, that you know someone could use or find light in?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think. One, going back to the be patient stuff, it's not just like tbi recovery or you know grief, but you can't rush the process, be it entrepreneurship, be it. You know whatever it is right. Like you, you just have to like be in it and go while you're you're trudging through, like there's not going to be a perfect bridge that sees you through this, whatever storm you're in. Two, you need to do things that challenge you right and that builds up, ultimately builds your grit right, because we will, like you said, like we don't know when people are going to die, you know, usually it's unexpected, even if it's expected, it's still going to be painful or we're going to be hit traumatic brain injury, whatever it is, cancer right. Like we need to build up some of that backbone, some of that internal strength, that resilience, whatever you want to call it right Grit that we can just go through because nobody else will do it for us.
Speaker 1:That's a super important reminder too. I know I've mentioned on the show, but I'll beat that dead horse. It's like you build resilience after hard things. I think a lot of times we'll use it as like this buzzword that you get for free, it's in your happy meal, or something like no, that comes from the difficult thing. Then you get to look back and be like I'm still alive, I did that thing, I'm good, and that's one thing like I'm super appreciative of the military, even though there are difficult times and things like that moving every couple years and finding out how to register your car in Japan versus the UK or these little things where it's like minor inconveniences.
Speaker 1:But I know that I can just keep pushing and try to figure these things out and so I did lose my dad or my grandparents or things like that Definitely wasn't fun, was not enjoyable, but like you know that you can process these things. So I kind of appreciate the difficult times that I've had with all the different moves and having to go TDY or, you know, go on work, trips and deployments and things like that. Like those things like get you the grit that you need. It doesn't come for free.
Speaker 2:So I think it's a super good reminder. Yeah, you earn it, that's for sure, and it doesn't have to be. You know, I'm not saying like climb Everest, right, and everyone's Everest is different. Right. For me, when I was in the ICU, it was taking my first steps. Right, and sometimes that's where people are right. It doesn't mean running 30 miles, it means maybe just walking a half mile, but starting, yes start with the little stuff, right.
Speaker 1:I think it's another good reminder. That's been on the show a few times is like I think a lot of times people want this herculean effort to like fix their lives and really it's the first step and again back to cliches. But I mean, if it's true, it's the first step, and again back to cliches. But I mean, if it's true, it's true, you got to walk the lap around the neighborhood first or you know, whatever it is, we're not going to be jumping into 26.2 miles or the Barkley Marathon. I keep reading about it's 100 miles. Yeah, five 20 mile laps in the woods of Tennessee. Like you're probably not going to go do that right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And I think there's a piece where, like, our lives don't don't change in an instant, they usually don't always deteriorate in an instant either. It's the small things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Your next pillar is trauma therapy, so we'll jump into the path to healing. So what has the role of therapy played in your personal healing journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I needed to hit the counseling, especially for some of that like self-anger that was showing up around after those concussions and having an outlet for that. Working out was good. But you can't work out all the time and I think working out does great at like releasing energy. But then there's also like this cognitive piece that like working out sometimes doesn't always touch. It can if you you know, if you're really good at like self-talk or like you have friends that you can connect with. But I needed. For me that wasn't enough, so I needed to get some extra help and you know, just I remember walking out of some of those sessions feeling like I could. I had like 16 bricks off my back and it was just like the day was brighter, like I could like think, clearer it was.
Speaker 1:It was so interesting but then sometimes they're difficult too right, like I think that's another thing you, you know, we just talked about like it's difficult to go through and peel back things that are difficult and are hurting you and things like that. So you will get to the outcome. But do you have any advice on trying to push through some of the times where you're like I don't want to go, I don't want to say anything?
Speaker 2:I mean, my advice is be open and be curious.
Speaker 2:And I say that one from a therapeutic standpoint, as I'm a therapist.
Speaker 2:Because being curious especially when we talk about, like, nervous system dysregulation it's very hard to be curious when we're in a dysregulated state, because typically when we're in a dysregulated state it's because there's something wrong. So our body is sensing threat or discomfort and we lose that ability to be curious. Right, Like, if we're sensing threat, we don't need to be curious about, like, what it is, we need to be responding. Right, we can't be like, oh, let's go check behind this corner or let's be open to this, right. So when we lose that curiosity, it's kind of a sign inside of our brain that, hey, I'm starting to switch into resistance states, right. So by being curious, we can just kind of like starting to switch into resistant states, right. So by being curious, we can just kind of like disarm some of those defense mechanisms that we already built up. Maybe it's looking tough, Maybe it's caring how other people are going to judge you, right, but if you're curious and you're just open, kind of just opens those doors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting. So earlier you said there's no cookie cutter. Everyone's a little bit different. So we've talked a lot about you as the patient, I guess for lack of a better term flipping the hats. From a counselor standpoint, how do you begin to figure out what treatment a person needs, and can you kind of walk us through what those beginning stages of someone's like hey, I'm going to go talk to somebody apprehensive, what is the kind of the beginning of that session look like sessions, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean, the first few sessions are usually just getting through like intake stuff, formalities, building some building a relationship to building a relationship of trust, essentially like, can I help you regulate, can you help me regulate? And I mean regulate just via the nervous system, through neuroception. Our nervous system is constantly sensing and I think a beautiful example of that is like if you've ever walked into a room and no one was talking but like you could, you kind of like straightened up because you just feel the tension and that's all nervous system just communicating to your body, right. So we don't need to do that consciously. It just happens through evolution that we've honed those skills. So how can I help that person regulate their nervous system? Just by being present, being calm, right, being there and then figuring out what do they want to work on.
Speaker 2:Because a lot of times people come to therapy and like, yeah, my relationship with my partner sucks. Really, what's going on in the relationship is something that's happened maybe over many relationships, maybe even as an adolescent, when maybe they lost somebody that they care about. So they have a fear of abandonment, right. So they tend to just push people away before they even get that close, right. So really it's noticing those patterns that just repeat and repeat in our lives. That's when we usually start. I tend to lean towards somatic experiencing therapy as my go-to intervention, just because it's very trauma-informed. It can be very slow, but potent is how I kind of describe it, and I mean just the ability to integrate some of these past painful memories, while then coming through and feeling confident, feeling self-having, self-trust, right as you walk out the door and then you know, go back to your regular lives and X amount of sessions.
Speaker 1:So how do you break the cycle? Because I feel like that's like I guess that's the core of those things, like they had something happen and so then they push people away, and they push people away, and then they're, you know, sad that they don't have anybody, but they're pushing people away. I mean, if you already have that built up and, like you said, multiple relationships, I feel like if it's built up it's harder to break, or is that just more time working through that to break it?
Speaker 2:There can be more, many more layers if it's happened repeatedly over decades than just three or four times in a few years. There can be a lot more guilt, a lot more shame, right, but how somatic experiencing or SE therapy, for short works is by tracking what's inside the body. So when you start thinking about that guilt, what do you notice? How does your body respond, go where does your body go in terms of tension, right, shaking, trembling, fear, right. And then by not only tracking but then also helping to regulate, as that's moving through nervous, through the nervous system, and then also allowing it to deactivate. And it's when that deactivation happens there can be almost like a decoupling that occurs between that behavior and maybe fear right or vulnerability in that behavior, whatever it might be.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. It kind of reminds me I love running with Coach Bennett and the Nike Run app and he guides the runs and talks through things and one of the phrases he says is it's about the run and it's not about the run and he's talking about kind of offloading some of those things during the run. Which I'm curious. Like you know, you have the TBI. It's physically in your brain from you know hitting your head and things like that. But how does healing from trauma go beyond just physical recovery?
Speaker 2:I think everyone, everyone's going to be different in terms of how this answer comes out right.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean, there's there's the physical aspect, especially with the traumatic experience, like a physical experience, you know, laceration, stuff like that. But I I think the the trauma part really comes in in terms of how do maybe? Maybe maybe the distress is what I could do before and what I can't do now, and noticing that and that pain, that grief, whatever it is. And then how do we heal those components? Right, yeah, maybe, like for me, there was no way I was going to go be able to hit the bench within a week of being out of the hospital, right, and having to sit in that and figuring out and being patient, and then stepping in back to the bench and just doing the bar right and having to sit in that and figuring out and being patient and then stepping in back to the bench and just doing the bar right and then rebuilding. So that's how I would answer that question, but I feel like there's more to it. Can you repeat the question?
Speaker 1:No, I think you touched on it. I think there's just those extra things that go on outside the physical recovery because obviously your brain and whatnot has to recover. But I think you touched on it. I think there's just those extra things that go on outside the physical recovery because obviously your brain and whatnot has to recover. But I think that, like you said, is probably the most difficult If you've already defined yourself. I know in the military we have a hard time and people go to leave and you've been doing the same thing for 20 years and your definition is that, like it's hard to do that. So like if you were a runner or something when you got hit when you were 17 and like you're, that was the definition of you. I mean, I don't know how you process that if that's what you define yourself as.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm, yeah, so I mean there's the mental, physical, the identity, right. There's the emotional piece. There's also can be a spiritual component to to healing from trauma, especially if there are religious beliefs around, like good things happen to good people or bad things happen to bad people, but like if I'm a good person, why did this happen to me, right? So it can be almost like a spiritual sense to healing. And then the relational piece, too, right, of how do relationships shift in your life because of this, whatever happened, what are they now? Do their, maybe their values, maybe the value and the significance of the relationship even shifts, right? Maybe before it you put a lot of weight into who you were as a social person and now you're kind of like I need to put more weight into who I am as a human being.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. I think we learn a lot from books and things like that, but I feel like for me, I remember, and it just, you know, internalizes so much more when I learn it from the world. Is there something from your work that you've learned that might not be in a textbook or you didn't learn along the way through school but, like you, just notice it throughout your work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think I think that the human spirit is a lot stronger than what people give it credit for, and and I think that's good. Do you have a story?
Speaker 1:that goes with that Someone?
Speaker 2:that bounced back. I mean I can't give out individual stuff because of personal health information, but I mean just being a being a therapist and witnessing it. But also, too, if you just kind of step back and you look at like wow, like you know what, what I don't like, want to get political or anything, but when you can notice, like what people can go through in terms of the Holocaust and still hold on to their values and love for one another, or even in South Africa, right, or like the apartheid I'm forgetting the word, I can't say it right now, apologize the apartheid, I can't remember how to say that, but right. Or even slavery.
Speaker 1:Those are some difficult things and people come together. I always think of, like the mass shootings and things like that. It's crazy how instantly people will grab each other and help each other. They don't know each other, they don't look the same, they don't know each other, they don't look the same, they don't have the same background and instantly you know we'll flip and take care of each other, which is awesome. I just wish we did that all the time. Well, daniel, your last pillar is healing and moving forward and, like I said, I love practical tips. So I'm curious what are some daily habits or practice that have helped rebuild your life habits?
Speaker 2:or practice that have helped rebuild your life. Yeah, so I personally take time in solitude. So I think solitude is very different than isolation. I think solitude is something you voluntarily step into. Isolation is more of like retracting, right, so I take time in quiet peace. I notice you know things. I'm grateful for things that I need to do today. Prioritize those things so that there's very like intentional, intentional living on my part. Also, to regulating my nervous system, because even as a therapist like you're not I'm not immune to dysregulation. So, finding those things that do bring soothing into my body, right, like I have plants in my office there's none behind me, as you can see, but throughout here, right, noticing plants or being in nature listening to waves. Right, or listening to the wind blow, whatever it might be.
Speaker 1:It makes sense. What do you think? I'm sure you've done a bunch of self-reflection and things like that. How has your perspective on life, you know, changed from when it happened, or maybe right before it and now you know, as an adult that's been through this difficult situation?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean I think there's a lot more purpose, right, there's a lot more intention. I mean I was a 17 year old, as probably most 17 year olds like don't give a crap, right, you know. It's like they're invincible and stuff. Well, I was showing I'm very not invincible and then, but then also like wow, like you know, not like a you know, there's like the second chance to, like you know, do things and really like create positive changes in people's lives.
Speaker 1:And that's kind of this embodiment and one of the reasons this has kind of morphed into starting my own therapy practice right is how can I help other people heal, especially men who might struggle with numbness or maybe too much bottled in?
Speaker 2:emotion, right, why do you think and this is completely off topic, but I got to ask why do you think men don't get help as much as, maybe, the other gender? Yeah, I do think that there is still part of that stigma that exists, right, but that's again pretty, I would say, probably well-known by this time, especially in America. And part of that stigma too. Breaking it down down is like is there fear of vulnerability? Is there fear of even facing some of those challenges, obstacles or demons that have been just stuffed away? Like is there? Like I can't even like there's so much in there I can't even.
Speaker 2:I was in a training maybe five years ago or six years ago, and it was like they were like we still have Vietnam vets coming in white, knuckling it, you know, and that was you know. And I mean those Vietnam vets are like in their 70s, 80s, 90s, right, but like they're still they're trying it right. So it's like, why can't we try it? So? And then also, I think, especially in the military, or like first responders I work, I work pretty closely with first responders and those in the military too, but you know, there's the fear of like, what if other people find out? Like, will they look at me differently, will they see me as weak, you know? Are they going to trust me when, when, when the situation gets heated Right, so all those kinds of variables start to come in.
Speaker 1:If the Vietnam vets can do it, I think we should all be able to do it. Well, Daniel, I'd like to try to bring it all together. If someone listening right now is in the middle of their own recovery journey, what words of encouragement do you have for them?
Speaker 2:I would say in a short phrase that this adversity will define you and just allowing enough time to do that, Awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, daniel, thank you for coming out. I wanted to let you know, or ask you, where people can connect with you and learn a little bit more about you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my practice is Revitalize Mental Health LLC here in Kenosha, wisconsin. I'm licensed in Wisconsin as well as in Colorado, so I can practice in both states for those listening in those states or know somebody in those states. But RevitalizeMentalHealthcom Instagram, linkedin I think some of those links will be posted in the notes. So following that link.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I'll get you all tagged and all connected, but that's it for today's episode. If you found value in this, please let me know on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok or YouTube. We'd love to hear from you. Please drop a review. We'll see you next time. I love you all. See ya, Thank you you.
