Deliver Books, Not Just Mail: Life Lessons from a Postal Carrier w/ Mark Sanborn

Mark Sanborn shares the powerful principles from his bestselling book "The Fred Factor," revealing how passion and creativity can transform ordinary work into extraordinary impact. He draws inspiration from Fred Shea, a postal carrier who demonstrated exceptional service through simple, intentional actions.

• Nobody can prevent you from choosing to be extraordinary
• The four principles of the Fred Factor: everybody makes a difference, success is built on relationships, you can add value to everything you do, and you can reinvent yourself daily
• Stories are the mental coat pegs we hang ideas on
• Extraordinary doesn't mean hugely better—it means a little extra
• What makes Fred relatable is that he's an ordinary person who chose to be extraordinary
• Creating connections with others builds meaningful relationships
• The FRED framework for leaders: Find the Freds you have, Recognize and reward, Educate, and Demonstrate
• Little things make a big difference when done with purpose and passion
• Being curious about others is the foundation of relationship-building

Connect with Mark Sanborn at marksanborn.com or on LinkedIn where he publishes weekly content. Browse his collection of 1,100+ articles for more insights on leadership and making a difference.

https://mindforcepodcast.buzzsprout.com

Chapters

• 0:50 Introduction to Mindforce Podcast
• 1:49 Meeting Mark Sanborn and Fred
• 5:38 Four Principles of the Fred Factor
• 10:42 Stories That Connect and Resonate
• 17:56 Becoming a Fred: Mindset Shifts
• 21:51 Developing Other Freds
• 25:49 Real-World Impact and Key Takeaway

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:23

Welcome everyone. Mindforce is here to bring you powerful conversations on love, life and learning. I'm Nate Shear and I'm glad you're tuning in. Today I'll be talking about the Fred Factor.

Speaker 1: 0:34

A few years ago I was at the Senior Leadership Workshop in Leesburg, virginia. In this odd complex underground tunnels and things they do for leadership off-sites you had 450, you know of the Air Force, medical service, top leaders, you have generals and colonels and all these things, and I was blessed enough to be brought along as a junior leader and they get to pick one key spokesman for the event every year. This year, or a few years ago, it was Mark and he had written a book and it was very impactful to me and I thought it was awesome, and so I reached out to him to see if I could capture the wonderfulness of his book to get out to people, because really it's about helping other people. So, mark, thank you for taking the time to help others. I think the best part about your book simple principles, but they're so, so powerful. So let's start with the background. Can you give us a quick introduction? I'll give you the floor to tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:29

You bet Well, first let me just say what a huge fan I am of the men and women who serve in our military, including my son, lieutenant Hunter Sanborn, united States Marine Corps aviator. My dad served in the Air Force, so I am a huge respecter and greatly appreciate what you all do and the various roles that you play. I grew up on a farm in Northeast Ohio, got involved in public speaking through a youth organization called 4-H and later through the FFA, at the time called Future Farmers of America. I served as a state and national president and spoke a lot all over the place, including Japan, and when I retired, if you will, from the FFA, I realized that I wanted to be a professional communicator. I didn't have any particular business experience, which I thought would be important, so I went into sales and marketing for a number of years and then launched out into my own speaking business at the age ripe old age of 27.

Speaker 2: 2:29

Now, back then, everybody got hired on the basis of a cassette audio tape, and it was probably to my advantage, because very few of the meeting planners that hired me knew I was that young and when I showed up I often caused a bit of a shock when they realized that the voice attached to the person was a very young person. The good news is I worked really, really hard so that nobody would ever stand up, and you know yell, you know malarkey or you know something more, you know more detrimental, and I've been doing it now for 40 years. So it's been a great journey and in the process I realized that many of the stories and things that I was talking about people wanted to access through books, and of the eight by major publishers and another half dozen I've contributed to, of all those books, the book that has been received and sold the most is the Fred Fass. Subtitle is how Passion in your Work and Life Can Turn Ordinary into Extraordinary, and it's about a postal carrier who retired a few years ago, but he was the carrier on my route when I lived in an area of Denver called Washington Park. And, by the way, if anyone listening wants to read the first chapter of the book for free, just go to fredfactorcom and the chapter is called the First Fred I Ever Met and the premise of the book is really twofold.

Speaker 2: 3:49

The overt premise is that we have a choice we can do things in an ordinary way or we can do them in an extraordinary way, and not everything is worth doing extraordinarily well, you know, some things are worth doing and getting done, but when you have an opportunity to create more value for people and to enhance their lives, those are the times that we should look for that little extra. And I think that that's an important concept. People think extraordinary means hugely better. It doesn't. It means a little extra. Just like in quantum physics, you know, we talk about quantum leaps. They're impactful, but they're small. They're the smallest distance that atoms can move and yet the impact they have is huge.

Speaker 2: 4:32

But then there's another message, and I think it's especially important, not just for the readers but for the people they work with and their families, and that is that nobody can prevent you from choosing to be extraordinary. Ultimately, it's a choice you don't have to be paid for, rewarded for, have been taught it. Matter of fact, a lot of Freds, as I call them, that I've met were people that were often not appreciated for the contributions they made, but they did it anyhow, because they wanted to bring their best to their jobs, regardless of what their jobs were. So Fred Shea is the real life, now retired postal carrier that I wrote the book about, and there are four principles that I unpack in this short book and that's the foundation for my work around how to turn ordinary into extraordinary.

Speaker 1: 5:15

That's perfect. So, to keep us on time constraints, I tried to limit to three main categories for you, and so it's going to be what's a Fred, becoming a Fred and developing other Freds, which is probably the most important part, but to give you the platform on the first one, you already mentioned who is Fred, but what are the key qualities that make someone a Fred in their work and life?

Speaker 2: 5:39

Well, as I mentioned, fred is a real-life person, fred Shea, now retired postal carrier, and I use the word Fred for anyone who turns ordinary into extraordinary. The Fred factor is what I call the ability to add value to anything you do through passion, creativity and commitment, and that includes the people you live with and the people you work with. Truth is transferable. How we apply the principles, how we apply that truth can change with context. But what I write about in the book I write about from an organizational perspective, but it works just as powerfully at an individual level. And what makes someone afraid and really what I've tried to do is my old friend. I haven't seen him for years. Clint Hurdle is my old friend. I haven't seen him for years. Clint Hurdle, a legendary baseball coach and player, said Lord, make me a simple man in a complex world. And that's what I try to do. I try to write little books about big ideas and I try to bring structure that are easy to remember and to use. And the four principles of the Fred Factor is number one. Everybody makes a difference. The only question is what kind? I believe at a very practical level, there is no neutral when you go through life and you don't engage or interact or help people. They don't think you're neutral. They think you're indifferent, that you don't care. So, from a very practical standpoint, it's about being intentional, about making a positive difference. It's about seeing the opportunities you have to be a positive difference maker and choosing to do so. The second principle is it's all built on relationship. What made Fred Shea extraordinary initially in my interactions with him was that he introduced himself. He was interested in me, what I did for a living, and that shaped literally how he delivered the mail, since I was traveling a great deal back then. And relationship is the one thing that ultimately differentiates almost any product or service. We've all had postal carriers, we've all had interactions with the postal service and I'm sure they haven't all been exemplary, but it's proof that it's not the organization but the individual that if they invest in the relationship, they can truly add value.

Speaker 2: 7:50

The third is you can add value to everything you do. It doesn't have to cost a nickel. Don't like to hire me to come in and say here's how to spend a million dollars to make $1.2 million. There are people that can tell you how to do that. But what I talk about is how do you replace money with imagination, how do you replace capital with creativity? And I'll think, your problems and your competitors. It's the little things that make a big difference. And again, the big things are important, but the little things are just as important, because, cumulatively, 10 little things makes the equivalent of one big thing, one big impact. And so I think we need to incrementally look for how can we do it a little bit better, a little bit faster, a little more quality or with a little more innovation.

Speaker 2: 8:34

And then the fourth principle is you can reinvent yourself every day.

Speaker 2: 8:38

I started saying years ago who motivates the motivator? The motivator needs to motivate him or herself. If you're in a position whether it's as a coach or as a person in corporate America or the military and you are responsible for motivating others, you better know how you stay motivated, because the only thing worse than a bored coach or a bored leader or a bored parent is one of those people. That then bores the people they lead or they teach or that they coach. So I think we need to make a commitment to keep it fresh and, if we can't, to find an area of our lives where we can, and that may not mean sticking to the same path for 20 or 30 or 40 years, like my parents kind of historically did. It means making sure that, a before we get a different job, we should do the job we have differently and B if you really do need a different job, bring those same principles of choosing to make a difference and relationship building and adding value and keeping it fresh, motivating yourself to whatever work that you have.

Speaker 1: 9:42

Yeah, that makes sense. It's funny. One of the videos I've shown my flights more than other any other by far, is the three loves video when you spoke at Lowe's, and I absolutely love that video and so it's funny. You know, motivate the motivator. That three loves gets me through a lot of different times but I love showing that to the different areas and different flights. Great video. But one question I was curious on. You said you know multiple books. You've helped with other ones. Why do you think Fred Factor resonated with so many people across different industries, over the others?

Speaker 2: 10:16

Well, there are a few reasons, I think. First of all, we remember stories. I always say stories are the mental coat pegs we hang ideas on, and when I was a beginning communicator I focused more on the ideas than I did on the stories that conveyed them. And when I meet people that had heard me speak five years ago or who read the book a long time ago, and if I say what do you remember? You know they don't give me four points. They think about it. I remember was his name Bill, no, fred, he was a postal carrier. And once they remember that story then they can remember the application.

Speaker 2: 10:51

But the other thing that I think has contributed to the success of the book is it's about an ordinary individual, which we all are. It's not about Bill Gates or the leader of a large nation or a multi-gazillionaire. It's about a person just like we're all, at the end of the day, common, ordinary people. But we have the choice of choosing to be extraordinary and I think people relate to that. If I wrote a book about Bill Gates or I wrote a book about Elon Musk you know, as controversial as he seems to become, certainly he's an innovative thinker People would say, well, yeah, I mean, they're billionaires. They have thousands of people that work for them.

Speaker 2: 11:29

Fred, you know he was part of a team, but ultimately it was a one-on-one interaction. He provided service at a personal level. Not every day did I see Fred when I was home or in town. Fred didn't work twice as long. People the cynics go oh you must have really worked. No, he just worked differently. He didn't work longer and that's really kind of to me.

Speaker 2: 11:50

An important point that I like to make is you can't make someone be a Fred. You can encourage them. You can be an example of a Fred. I was just to say I couldn't make my boys take out the garbage when they lived at home, so don't ask me about making people do things. But what you can do is A you can recognize the people who don't do those things, who may not be getting the positive feedback to reinforce it.

Speaker 2: 12:13

I hate to hear stories about people that were once that way and just got burned out for lack of appreciation. But the other thing you can do is you can teach people these very simple techniques. My friend Dr Nito Cobain at High Point University I love this saying he says without education equals frustration, and very often we ask people to do things that they'd love to do if they knew how. For instance, if I said to a man or woman that I met at an organization I want you to create value today, that begs the question what does that look like? How do I do it? I want you to build better relationships. You know most of us struggle with relationships at a personal level, much less at a professional level, so I'm a huge believer in educating people by giving them the skills they need to be successful in what you're asking them to do.

Speaker 1: 13:05

Yeah, I love the stories I think you know back to caveman days and whatnot. That's how we pass knowledge and things like that, and it's funny because it's exactly how we remember. I remember, even though it's been many years now, that your son wanted to be a rapper and how hilarious that was.

Speaker 2: 13:21

And he's got 24 songs on Spotify. He's also a realtor. I think he's found real estate pays better than rap.

Speaker 1: 13:28

A little bit, but yeah, it resonated so much with me because of the normal people. I think I'm a hospital administrator by trade and so the people that are within my sections scan hundreds of pages of patient records every day for socials that don't match and things like that and that's not a glorious thing. I also work in the warehouse and make sure that goes along, and so I remember the story of this elastics person and that was like one of the most powerful things of your whole whole story to me was when you talk to the forklift driver, very easily you could say I'm just a forklift driver and I think a lot of times in the military we say we only work at a desk, we only fly the mouse, we only, you know, fill in the blank. But he said I deliver books or education, I deliver the ability to read to kids, and that was wildly impactful for me. Do you have anything else on the Stelastics? Forklift driver.

Speaker 2: 14:25

Well, I think we become overly focused sometimes on the process. You know, the Department of Motor Vehicles in the US doesn't usually come up as a bastion of great service. But again, like the Post postal service, there are people that get it right. And a couple of years ago I bought a new pickup truck and I at the time I had an office that was on the second floor of the building. My truck was in the parking lot and thankfully I didn't have to go to the DMV and stand in line to get my license plates. But I did have to make a call.

Speaker 2: 14:57

And while I'm on the call, the guy was very nice, very helpful. He said I need your VIN number and I'm like, oh man. I said I apologize, I wasn't thinking ahead, don't have my VIN number. It's a bit of a trek to go out in the parking lot and get it. It's winter, it's snowing, and he goes. I'll tell you what he said. Listen, I'm going to fill in a fake VIN number and it's not illegal because they will send you a piece of paper to confirm that's the right one or to put in the right one. Now, I'm sure he was breaking a rule of some sort, but he really was doing something better. He was delivering a result, making it easy for me to get my license plates and, by the way, when I got the paperwork it was right. I just put in the right VIN number and all was well. And it reminded me.

Speaker 2: 15:40

I say sometimes you have to bend or flex or go around the rules, but never violate the values, and the values are giving the best service that you can, helping people get what they need with the least amount of hassle. You know, the older you get at least me one of the primary things I look at price is important, but hassle is even more important. And if there's going to be a lot of hassle involved, man, count me out. I've had a lot of years of dealing with it and I think I've kind of reached my saturation point. So there's a good example, like the Scholastic's forklift driver, who was able to link what he did to a greater purpose. And I think that's what good leaders do. They show people that what we might call paper pushing, data entry it has real impact on people's lives, and all of us have dealt with little errors from a clerical standpoint that created big ordeals.

Speaker 2: 16:30

From an experience standpoint, and I think if we begin our day just asking and I try to remind myself of this look for opportunities to be helpful. Today there's a lot of them out there, you know, and sometimes we're moving a little fast to spot them. But if we just pay attention we'll find it. It may be at work, it may be in our drive, our commute, a ride on the train, something that happens in interaction on the base. But life gets a lot more interesting and that was really what I try to tell people is it's just a better way to do business. It's more fun, whether you get paid more or not. If you do it for that reason, you probably will short circuit it. I don't know how that works, but do it because it's the right thing to do. Do it because that's a fun way to do business and a fun way to live.

Speaker 1: 17:16

Yeah, that makes sense. So, moving into becoming a Fred you mentioned some of those things. So you can't force someone to do it, they have to do it themselves. What is it someone's like?

Speaker 2: 17:31

I do want to do that. That. What are those mindset shifts that need to take place to get to that place? Well, the primary, at least the first, is awareness, and that is understanding you can do more without spending a lot more time or money or effort. We're not talking about working twice as hard or twice as long. That's not what the Fred Factor is. It's about working a little bit more creatively, a little bit more passionately. And once you have that awareness and you know that you can make a difference, then it's about looking for opportunities to make a positive difference, about making sure that you don't come across as indifferent.

Speaker 2: 17:59

It's about relationship building. People say well, mark, you know, man, relationship building it takes a while, doesn't it? It does, but there's something called a connection, which is a moment of shared affinity. It's when you meet somebody who you relate to because of a similarity. It could be as simple as finding out they're from the same state that you're from, or that you both know the same person. And what's fascinating I don't know how they did the research, but research shows that five of these connections, these moments of shared affinity, create the beginning of a relationship. So over time, you know, nobody's going to develop a relationship like you know your popcorn. But over time, if you pay attention to those connections, you start to develop relationships. Then you look for ways to add value, one of the principles in the book I call ABCD.

Speaker 2: 18:48

Above and beyond the call of duty. I'm the leadership expert in residence at High Point University. Been on the campus many times. There's still a restaurant there I can never find. And while I was looking for it I said I just stopped one of the students that was walking by. I said, excuse me, can you point me towards the 1924 Steakhouse? And he said, hey, I'm going that direction, I'll take you Now.

Speaker 2: 19:11

He could have said, hey, I'm going that direction, I'll take you Now. He could have said, look, see that statue on the corner. But he said I'll take you. That's above and beyond the call of duty and that's how those little things make such a big difference. And then, finally, you want to be a Fred. You know, be in touch with really you know what inspires you and use that to inspire others. If you don't have a purpose in life, at least do things with purpose. Everything that you do can have a different purpose, but ultimately our lives, I think, become maximally impactful when we have a sense of purpose, whether that's faith or impact or philanthropy or contribution, whatever that is. Once you're clear on your purpose, that will help you stay motivated to use these principles.

Speaker 1: 19:51

Yeah, that makes sense. I wanted to ask you. I love building relationships, I love people, but I have heard some people say don't you find that manipulative and what would you?

Speaker 2: 20:05

say to people that say that, yeah, if you're building relationships to get what you need at someone else's expense, that is manipulative. You build relationships because the more you know about another person, the more you can help them, and then, typically, conversely, they'll be willing to help you. Nothing happens outside of relationship and it's like influence. People say that leadership is influence, and I always add a word. I always say positive influence, because there have been a lot of leaders in history that use their influence for ill and for evil. And so, yeah, you can use, and I do agree that intentions and motives matter and the reason, you know, the best reason to build a relationship is because you're truly interested in the other person. That's the number one disqualifier, by the way of leadership. You may be a wonderful human being, but if you really aren't interested in other people, you're going to be a crappy leader, and so that ability to be interested in others isn't just a leadership skill, as this conversation demonstrates. It's the skill of all high performers that perform in an extraordinary way.

Speaker 1: 21:07

Yeah, it reminds me of Ted Lasso. Gotta love the be curious. If you're just curious and want to know about other people, usually good things will come out. I think that leads us into developing other Fred. So how can leaders and managers cultivate a culture where Fred-like behavior thrives?

Speaker 2: 21:24

Well, I'll use an acronym and I know acronyms can be kind of trite and hackneyed, but they're also a good way to remember stuff and I just use FRED as an acronym. Four ideas the first is find the FRED you already got, because you probably have people who either are FREDs or have the potential to be, but they're lacking the encouragement, the recognition that they need. And you know it may mean, when you hire, hiring beyond function this is going to sound corny, but hiring for fredness or attitude or that predisposition. The second is recognize and reward the behavior. One of the oldest principles in management is what gets rewarded, gets done. And if you're not paying attention and you're missing the good work people are doing, over time they'll figure why do it.

Speaker 2: 22:08

The E is important we talked about this before and that is educate. People will be far more effective when they know not just what to do but how to do it. But the most powerful thing that you can do to have more friends in your organization is the D, and that is demonstrate it. Be the kind of person that will inspire other people to go man. I really admire him or her. What makes them different, and one of the ways that we create greatness in others is they emulate what they see that's admirable in us. So find, reward and recognize, educate and demonstrate. That's the simple template for developing and having more friends in your organization.

Speaker 1: 22:48

That's good stuff. I don't know if you can go into it. I don't know if there's like a nondisclosure or whatnot, but can you talk about. You know people you've gone to go and speak to and have had remarkable results or things, maybe from you. Know the past, maybe not as recent, or things like that that really surprised you.

Speaker 2: 23:05

Well, I may have mentioned this on that call some years ago, but I heard and I can't validate it, but the guy that told me I trust that years ago when he was at the Limited in Columbus, ohio, which owns Victoria's Secret, that they had a Fred Factor initiative going and that one panel was Victoria's Secret models on the runway and another panel was Fred Principals. And if I could get one thing in my career that I do not possess, it would be a photo of that as proof. Now I can't vouch for it but, like I said, the person that told me I think I trust enough to think something like that happened. And the reason I bring that up is a lot more organizations have used the book and the principles than I've ever found out about. I spoke at a 10-year anniversary for a medical center and they told me and I had no idea until they invited me to speak that before they broke ground and they were developing their corporate culture, if you will and this was a well-known medical center that they used the principles of the Fred Factor and made it part of that cultural blueprint and that's why, to celebrate 10 years, they wanted me to come and I thought you know how cool is that? I had no idea. City of Fort Collins, colorado, had new competition in another community called Loveland and for six months they called themselves Fredville, usa, and they had a merchant initiative.

Speaker 2: 24:22

And I say that because I'm most gratified when the ideas that I share, whether it's in writing or spoken word, influence others in a positive way. You know Viktor Frankl, who wrote Man's Search for Meaning, was asked by a student. You know what Frankl's mission was and he said it was to help other people find their meaning. And it was kind of a virtuous cycle, right, viktor Frankl's concentration camp, horrendous challenges, but he found some very fundamental principles about how to live life fully. And it wasn't just. He didn't say you know, it's my job to sell as many books, give as many speeches, consult with as many organizations. It was to help other people reach that same level of commitment and passion and purpose that he had.

Speaker 1: 25:08

Which I think really goes into the purpose. Like you'd mentioned earlier, you need a purpose. I know when people like leave the military or you know, transition, sometimes they find that difficult to figure out what the next thing is. I wanted to ask you if you could share another story. I know you've shared a couple, but again, I think we learn the most from stories. So do you have another real-world example of someone who applied the Fred Factor principle to transform their life or work?

Speaker 2: 25:35

Well, since you're a healthcare administrator, you'll appreciate this story from the book. Now my son that's the first lieutenant is 27, almost 28 years old. When he was about two or three years old, we went to the doctor's office, which, you know, no kid ever says Daddy, mommy, take me to the doctor's office. And there was a physician's assistant who came in to see him and he got down on the floor, sat on the floor, because, you know, back then my son, standing, was about the same height as the physician's assistant was sitting and I think he had a stuffy or something and he just did such a marvelous job of relating. You know, he was a trained, you know healthcare provider, but he was able to take his expertise and make it relatable. And that's a little example, but I think a good example, of how little things make a big difference. And that's a story that's now 25 years old and the story didn't change. It's just the people in the story got a lot older things.

Speaker 1: 26:37

you know, put your shoes out the night before so you'll run the day after. Or you know, whatever the smaller things, we don't do the smaller things and we don't get to the big things. So I think that's a great reminder. But, Mark, I'd like to try to bring all this together. So if you had one key takeaway for listeners from this conversation, what would it be?

Speaker 2: 27:05

Well, my brother, who is today a successful business person and owns companies of his own, when he graduated from high school, on his graduation card oddly I can remember this I wrote whatever you choose to do, be the best as anyone who does it, and it was pretty aspirational because I'm only five years older than my brother. But my point was is that you know there's there are a lot of people in any area of life that do an ordinary job or a good job. But the big message here is the reason nobody can prevent you from choosing to be extraordinary is because extraordinary doesn't take that much more.

Speaker 1: 27:42

Well, thank you, Mark, for coming out. Where can people connect with you and learn a little bit more?

Speaker 2: 27:47

RNcom and I'm on LinkedIn. Please connect with me there. That is the primary place I publish. Now I publish weekly. I also have 1,100 articles. We used to call them blogs, now I think the official word is articles. I have 1,100 of those at MarkSandborncom in the article sections. I hope people will continue to avail themselves to the ideas I share and that they make a difference in their life.

Speaker 1: 28:13

Perfect. Well, that's it for today's episode. Thanks for tuning in. Don't forget to keep the conversation going. Please drop a review. I love you all, see ya, so Thank you.