The Inner Journey: Navigating Life with a Rare Disease w/ Chris Anselmo

Chris Anselmo shares his journey living with limb girdle muscular dystrophy and how he transformed his adversity into the resilience strategies he now shares through his newsletter Hello Adversity. Though the physical challenges of progressive muscle weakness have been difficult, Chris reveals that the emotional and mental components were the hardest part of his experience.

• Diagnosed at age 21 after noticing muscle weakness while running, Chris initially struggled with denial and depression
• Learning to fall – literally and figuratively – taught Chris about his own inner toughness and resilience
• Rather than using clichéd phrases like "bounce back," Chris prefers the straightforward advice to "keep going"
• Authentic confidence comes from experience and proving to yourself that you can handle challenges
• Business school, public speaking, and writing became achievements that built Chris's confidence after his diagnosis
• Our inner critic often places limitations on us that aren't real – Chris suggests scoping out the steps involved to see what's truly possible
• For those feeling overwhelmed, stepping away temporarily can help reset your mind, like an overheating computer
• Journaling helps identify specific emotions and fears, making them easier to address
• Chris keeps a "highlight reel" document of accomplishments and positive feedback to combat self-doubt
• Nervousness before challenges isn't negative – it's evidence that you care and are pushing beyond your comfort zone

Visit Hello Adversity at helloAdversity.substack.com to learn more about Chris's resilience strategies and resources.

https://mindforcepodcast.buzzsprout.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Episode Introduction
• 1:30 Chris's Journey with Muscular Dystrophy
• 4:38 The Emotional Side of Physical Disability
• 11:40 Learning to Fall and Keep Going
• 17:05 Success Stories: Business School and Beyond
• 26:08 Overcoming Psychological Barriers
• 38:20 Practical Tips for Handling Bad News
• 44:44 Building Confidence Through Daily Habits
• 48:53 Embracing Nervousness as Evidence of Care
• 52:45 Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Transcript

Speaker 1: 1:03

Thank you, hi. I'm Nate Shearer and this is Mindforce, a podcast that helps all of us navigate love, life and learning, one conversation at a time. Let's get started. Today. I'll be talking about resilience, psychology and building confidence, so we'll start with the easy stuff, the background. Let's start with a quick introduction. Tell us a little bit about yourself who are you, what do you do and what brings you here today.

Speaker 2: 1:30

Great to be here. My name is Chris Anselmo. I've read a newsletter called Hello Adversity where I share different resilience strategies and resources that have helped me on my rare disease journey. So to kind of back up a bit, I live with an adult onset form of muscular dystrophy called limb girdle muscular dystrophy. I know that's kind of a mouthful, but it started when I was about 21 years old. I'm 38 now and it's really informed everything that's happened in my adult life.

Speaker 2: 2:03

I played sports growing up, I was athletic, I was active all through college and then after college I started noticing muscle weakness while going for a run after work and then from that I gradually got weaker, got my diagnosis, but really the hardest part of my entire experience was the emotional and then the mental components of that.

Speaker 2: 2:25

I mean the physical components of getting weaker obviously are very difficult but I really struggled with kind of how to respond to it and it's only through a lot of trial and error, through figuring out what's worked, what hasn't worked, that I've been able to cultivate resilience, that I've been able to kind of bounce back and really be able to kind of rebuild some of the dreams that had been sidelined after I thought, you know my world was crashing down and nothing would be possible. So my newsletter Hill Adversity is kind of the culmination of all that. I share different resilience strategies every week that have worked for me. I have interviews with people that have inspired me to kind of learn how they've become resilient themselves, and then I offer different resources, things I've read, things I've learned that have been really helpful for me.

Speaker 1: 3:12

That's awesome. Well, thanks for coming on the show, chris. Just to set the scene. Where are you calling from?

Speaker 2: 3:18

I forgot to mention that I'm in Connecticut, United States.

Speaker 1: 3:22

Connecticut yeah, to throw that in there just to see. I had people from Africa, australia, germany and I was like maybe I should start asking where people are coming from. But I do thank you for coming on the show. I feel like the most important resource we really have is time, and it's just so precious, and maybe that's me getting older, but taking the time to help others seems to be, you know, one of the most noble things. So appreciate you putting the newsletter together and, you know, being here to help others.

Speaker 1: 3:48

I think one of those things. That's, you know, core to the show and why I started this show. You know, losing my grandma as a kid like not able to talk about things, not able to find other people that are going through similar situations, and you have the breakdown of your physical body. But I think, like you said, the most difficult part is probably the things that people don't see, they can't identify, they can't connect with, and so I think that's a large struggle and that's why we're having, you know, difficult conversations on the show and trying to work through that. No one will ever say, oh well, I've done exactly that. But even if someone knows there's someone walking a parallel path, I still think you feel like, oh okay, well, other people are there.

Speaker 1: 4:27

I think that's how we spiral and go into negativity, where it's like it's only me and I don't know what to do because I'm the only one. If anyone's feeling that way, it's just not true. There's like 8 billion people in the world. There's someone that's going through something similar, if not very, very close to the same thing. We'll start with the warm up. A few fun questions for you, chris. Okay, what's a personal story that highlights your journey with resilience?

Speaker 2: 4:55

Well, you know, part of my journey, when I started experiencing muscle weakness, was the onset of falling. I used to again. I mean, I wasn't like a star athlete or anything, but I did. I was able to run and jump and play sports and go to the gym, that kind of thing, but my body had gotten to a point where my knees could no longer support my own body weight, which was really jarring. The first time it happened I was walking to the store and then then my knee gave out and I fell and, as you can imagine, that was incredibly difficult.

Speaker 2: 5:30

But that experience over time, you know, because it would happen like once a month, once every few weeks, you know, you hear the cliche of like you know, all you have to do is pick yourself up one more time, like one more time than you've fallen, like fall eight times, get up nine times or something. I always kind of roll showed me at least that you know as difficult as this experience was and as jarring as it is to actually fall, the fact that you know I kept showing up every day to just live my life despite that, knowing that that was always in the back of my mind as a possibility, but to not let that stop me from living life, pursuing my goals, became in a way kind of a confidence boost, not in like the cliche, inspirational way, but just in the like you know, like this thing, like really sucks, but you know I just I just keep going like it.

Speaker 2: 6:38

Really, that's kind of what it instilled in me, just this, this notion of just keep going. Now you know not to be like, oh, I'm the brave guy that got back up, but, just like you know, this awful thing keeps happening, but I'm just gonna have to find a way through that, and it took many years to kind of get to that point. Every time it happened it was still terrible to get me wrong. I'm not like, oh, this is another chance to practice resilience. But it showed something in me that I think I didn't realize that I had, which was just an inner toughness, an inner resilience, and from that kind of a lot of lessons were learned.

Speaker 1: 7:11

I feel like it's kind of an overdone term, sort of a buzzword, and I don't know me being in the military, we seem to love this word. We say be like a rubber band, bounce back, things like that, and I always just feel cheesy and I don't know if that's just because it's used too much. But I'm curious, like if you had to give it to someone, how would you say it? Instead of get up one more time, bounce back, just you know, is there a better way to give that advice? Or you know from your experience, how would you say it?

Speaker 2: 7:42

I would actually say I'd just say keep going.

Speaker 2: 7:46

Actually, that's kind of that's the phrase that always is in my mind, Because I think it's just it kind of cuts through all the clutter of some of those cliches, because people can roll their eyes at you know, bounce back or, like you know, pick yourself up after a fall.

Speaker 2: 8:00

But to keep going, just to be kind of an acknowledgement that, yeah, life is hard, Life is difficult, but if you can just find it in yourself to just keep showing up day after day you know things won't necessarily magically get better, but you're at least keeping yourself in the game for opportunities to arise. You know, serendipity, meeting somebody, learning something that might change your life. But to keep going is to keep kind of putting yourself out there, as difficult as life can be, and whether we want to or not, that's really the only way to get through life is to just keep showing up despite what happens. So I found that that's kind of a useful phrase and I think people have found that to be useful when I share it with them, because it kind of acknowledges life is hard but it also is not, you know, one of these cliches that sometimes, as you said, gets vastly overused.

Speaker 1: 8:53

I guess we can learn a lot from Dory, from Finding Nemo. Right, just keep swimming, or this too shall pass, but I guess that's another cliche buzz phrase. But things are always changing. If it's good, it'll change. If it's good, it'll change. If it's bad, it'll also change. I'm curious. Another word I feel like that's, you know, maybe lost some meaning, is confidence. You mentioned the word earlier, building up some confidence as you were picking yourself back up and things like that. You know, not necessarily overly charismatic, and you know walking with a strut or whatever. Can you kind of define what confidence means to you?

Speaker 2: 9:30

That's a great question. Confidence to me, yeah, as you said, it's not. It doesn't have to be like outwardly and showy and just you know putting somebody else down, you know, to make you look better, that kind of thing else down, you know, to make you look better, that kind of thing. It's really just kind of an inner knowledge that you know what you want to achieve or what you want out of life is possible and that you're capable of doing that. It comes from experience. It comes from, again, an inner resilience of just you know, expecting to fail. I think you know you can confidently fail, in the sense that you kind of see it as a learning experience, an opportunity to get better, knowing that you know you're going to find a way to adjust, to adapt. And you know, I think it's almost like an understated kind of confidence where it's just like an inner knowing that you know if there's something you want or if you want to be a certain way, you can be that secure in your self-worth, secure in your you know, in valuing yourself. Because I think sometimes you know people again, they think it's outwardly, they think it's showy, they think it means you know being obnoxious. But real confidence, authentic confidence is just, it's more subtle, it's more understated, it's more accepting that you have what it takes or that, if you don't yet know the answer to something, that you'll eventually get to that point. And a lot of it comes from self-love, from self-worth, and I think you know, once you can show that to yourself, then it's a lot easier to be outwardly confident. You can show that to yourself, then it's a lot easier to be outwardly confident.

Speaker 2: 11:08

So I mean with me I definitely was not the most confident person before the disease and then, definitely during the onset of the disease, over time, through experience, through kind of seeing how resilient I actually was that I gained a lot of confidence from that because I was able to see like, okay, I keep showing up, I keep going every day.

Speaker 2: 11:26

You know these things are happening to me that are not necessarily great, but I'm continuing to make a difference in my life and others' lives. I'm using it for good. And just through that whole process I was able to see like, okay, I'm a lot more with it than I thought that I was, I'm able to do things with this hand. That I was able to see like, okay, I'm a lot more with it than I thought that I was, I'm able to do things with this hand, that I was dealt that I can use for good. That's built. Those have been kind of the building blocks to again my sense of self-worth, self-love that you know stems from just all that I've been through and that kind of leads to kind of building that authentic confidence.

Speaker 1: 12:05

I think it really goes hand in hand. I almost feel like the definition of resilience should be changed, because I think resilience slash confidence. Both come from doing something difficult and then realizing that you're on the other side of it. I think that's why the rubber band kind of bugs me, because the rubber band bounces back by itself. You don't do the thing like. That's not how it works. You don't get resilience or confidence they really go hand in hand in this example for free. That's not how it works. You do the difficult thing. It's like oh yeah, I'm still here, that was awful, it was pretty painful, but I'm still here.

Speaker 1: 12:41

I think of like someone that's like a terrible driver and they're like well, did you die when you get to the location? That's probably not a good example, but that's what I think of, and so I think that's why you know those should probably be like redefined or maybe just addressed differently, Like resilience doesn't just show up. You know the band doesn't go back to itself, but yeah, I think that's really interesting because I think that's an internal drive, like you said, and it's not outwardly or whatever, but you've gotten through it and you got to their side, so you're OK. So, before we close out the warm up. Chris, I wanted to see if you had a question for me.

Speaker 2: 13:18

We were joking before that I probably shouldn't ask you how did you start this podcast? So, not asking that no-transcript.

Speaker 1: 13:45

Couple of months now getting up, rolling the clock back a little earlier. I don't consider myself a morning person, so rolling a clock back 30 minutes, even though it's not that much time, was pretty dreadful at first. But when we have work and you know I go and work out and you know when I get home from work I do stuff with the kids and then they wind down, they go to bed. Like there's so much activity during the day, that moment of quietness where it's me and my wife. Now you're over. You know what the day looks like, what the week looks like, being able to just like correlate your thoughts for a second. And I think that's why, like you mentioned, like surprising, like I'd heard, like oh, oh, yeah, have time to yourself and take a moment, whatever. It's like yeah, whatever, like that's not really going to do that much, but it dramatically changes, I feel like the whole level of stress and things like that.

Speaker 1: 14:33

Because now in this day and age, I feel like our thing is faster, faster. We want fast food through a drive-thru, you can google and answer in seconds like everything is done yesterday, like there is no more slow or quiet. You know, if you're slow then you're seeing like you're not productive or something like that. And so I think getting back to that slowing down and reflecting is super powerful and just getting like your mind set for the day, just that alone, like figuring out what we got, cause I got the show, my wife's got activities, the kids have activities half the time. Before this I was double booking stuff and then it creates extra stress because now I got to cancel a rescheduled guests and then she's frustrated and so just going through a quick thing in the morning 30 minutes, eat some oatmeal, you know, figure out what the day looks like. I would highly recommend even if you don't feel like you're a morning person, because I definitely am not Just get the thoughts together. What time do you wake up, chris?

Speaker 2: 15:33

I try to aim for eight o'clock Nice. I do not usually hit that. It's usually more around 830.

Speaker 1: 15:40

But you got those couple alarms.

Speaker 2: 15:43

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:46

We'll move into your three main pillars. So your first pillar is resilience. So it's funny we were talking about that a little bit, so bouncing back from life's challenges. Um, so what are the biggest challenges you've had to overcome? You talked about, you know, the rare disease. Has there been other things, or do you want to expand on the, the rare disease?

Speaker 2: 16:06

I think I think it was probably the rare disease. It's just it's impacted so many different aspects of my life that everything kind of kind of stems back to that Cause. When that happened, when it first happened, you know I kind of had an idea for how I thought my life was going to go that didn't involve the disease, only to find out that you know this is now part of my experience and that you know I probably there's of my experience and that you know I probably there's ability to walk within a decade. But I found that out for my diagnosis. That was definitely jarring. And then, just you know the emotional aftermath of all that dealing with getting weaker, dealing with trying to figure out, you know, what's still possible in my life and then just learning again through trial and error how to actually navigate life with this rare disease and then to ultimately build a life that's both meaningful. And you know I can still achieve a lot of the goals that I had originally set for myself. And yeah, I mean that that kind of has taught me everything I need to know about resilience. That's not to say other bad things haven't happened in my life, but you know people passing away and whatnot. That's been to say. Other bad things haven't happened in my life, but you know people passing away and whatnot. That's been kind of the central experience. That's kind of framed how I've everything I've learned about resilience, but also just how to become resilient.

Speaker 2: 17:23

And then also you know part of resilience too, which I don't think we've touched on yet, is kind of you have to relearn lessons over and over and over again. You know you might learn strategies for taming anxiety, but then when you actually need them they either don't follow them or you forget them or you just want to do the thing that you shouldn't be doing, that you know you shouldn't be doing. But it feels better than actually pausing and taking deep breaths and thinking about things and going outside. It's much easier to just kind of ruminate in your anxiety of whatever the situation is. And the same thing goes with sleeping habits.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Same thing goes with finding time to meditate, actually meditating itself and other strategies like that, where it's just like you know what the best practice is and then's just it's really hard to get yourself to actually do it sometimes. So that's also been a bit of a challenge. But all that has just come from the original thing, which was the disease and then just learning how to kind of adapt and ultimately build a meaningful, worthwhile life. Um, with this you know like to call it a giant anvil I gotta carry around everywhere with me. I'm just like this thing I can't get rid of.

Speaker 1: 18:42

You know the elephant in the room that actually goes with you. That makes me think of two questions. I'll give them to you, one at a time. The first one I'm curious about is how do you process when you get that news. I've heard like the five stages and things like that. How did you actually like I'm sure it's not like whatever the book says or whatever? How did you process, like you said, being able to walk and losing that and like how do you process all that?

Speaker 2: 19:12

Yeah, I don't think I went through the five stages, not necessarily in the order that they're outlined. I think I either experienced them all at once, at least the ones that were not acceptance. Acceptance came later, but you know it was just kind of a jumble of emotions and I definitely, definitely was denial. You know that was kind of a jumble of emotions and there definitely was denial. You know that was kind of the first, which I know is the first stage of the five stages of grief, but I kind of was in like a bit of a haze at first. I'm just like what was this? I had kind of a sense.

Speaker 2: 19:46

I won't go into the entire backstory, but I was actually diagnosed in high school because I was in a car accident and my blood work eventually indicated that I had some sort of a muscle disease, but I was told that it wouldn't happen until later in life. So my expectations were completely thrown off so that when it actually did start and I was re-diagnosed, I had to confront it much sooner than I expected. So I was kind of in denial about that, like okay, this can't be right, you know, because I'm still clinging to, like the original diagnosis. And then it just became. I think it just went like right from denial to depression, but probably within there there was anger, definitely a lot of bargaining, but it just all kind of came on at once as I just tried to grapple with what had happened and you know we're talking about processing what had happened. That took me many years, I think. Even today I'm still in a way still processing it.

Speaker 2: 20:42

But the bulk of the processing took probably like five or six years to come to grips with, in terms of just accepting what had happened but also kind of formulating a response. I definitely made a lot of mistakes during that time. I didn't ask for help, I didn't plan properly, you know, kind of realistically, for what was happening. I didn't want to face it. I just kind of stuck my head in the sand. And then, you know, when I did have to face it, I could, you know, I started falling again, which I mentioned earlier. I had to face it and then I just kind of went completely opposite direction. I'm just like this thing is taking over my life. My life is over. What's the point of, you know, creating plans, having goals, because I'm not gonna be able to achieve them anyways? So I kind of I was all over the place emotionally, which obviously impacted my ability to mount an effective response.

Speaker 2: 21:40

But you know, eventually the dust settled and, yeah, I think really the number one thing was just starting to become action oriented.

Speaker 2: 21:51

I'm just getting to a point where just like, okay, this thing is here for good, I can't do anything about that, but I do need to move forward with life and you know I'd all these goals on the back burner going to business school but doing more writing and you know it's kind of now or never, just like how can I actually make this work?

Speaker 2: 22:10

And that process of doing that, I think, was really instrumental for me, especially the business school part, because that seemed like a big goal. That just wasn't possible, had too many moving parts. I didn't know how strong I was going to be in two years so I thought that maybe it wasn't possible but I really forced myself to figure out the steps involved in making it happen and I was able to do it. And that action, that process of you know creating contingency plans and thinking through you know what are the different steps involved, how can I ask for help, etc. Really got me more future focused and that was really instrumental in ultimately being able to process what had happened, just by kind of almost not necessarily distracting me from the disease itself but just giving me something else to focus on and, to you know, something positive to be able to dedicate my efforts towards, rather than just endless lamenting or rumination.

Speaker 1: 23:09

So far in your process, chris, has there been stuff people have told you you can't do and you've been able to progress beyond that. Like the business school, you thought that, but has there been anybody? Maybe your your worst critic, cause we all are right, but from the outside, as people told you things that you can't do and you've been able to accomplish those.

Speaker 2: 23:30

I don't think there's been any situation or especially been told I can't do something. I do know people where that's been done. Thankfully that hasn't happened to me. But I think, as you said, my inner critic actually is the one that's usually placing limitations on me, saying, oh, you can't do that. And even today, like I still I'm tempted to believe that what my inner critic says.

Speaker 2: 23:53

But it's through that process of just being like okay, is this actually true? And then kind of just scoping out the different pieces involved, different steps in the process excuse me that I am able to see like, okay, this is possible. I might need extra help doing it. I might need to do it different than other people do it, but it is possible, there is a way. And really the calculation I end up making is not necessarily like something is impossible, but just something's going to involve you know so many steps or just require so much logistical planning that you know this is still something I really want to do. And sometimes the answer is yes, like if it's traveling to a conference that involves a lot of logistical planning, but it's something that's worthwhile and something that I'm willing to do, versus something else where it's just like I know I could do it, but like, do I actually want to do it? And then sometimes I'm like, okay, maybe I don't actually want to do it that badly. So that's kind of the calculation that I kind of run through in my head in terms of something being truly impossible.

Speaker 2: 24:49

I'm sure there are things that are truly impossible, but I like to, at least before I declare that, to at least see, like, are there ways that it can be done? Have others done it? I like to search online to see if you know somebody that might be in a similar situation or somebody that might be going through something even more difficult than what I'm going through, if they've been able to accomplish it. And usually there's. There's almost always I won't say there's always, but there's almost always an example of someone that has done it. So that gives me confidence that most things can be done.

Speaker 1: 25:27

It just has to look a little bit different, probably, than what you know. An average person that doesn't have mobility issues would do it. That's awesome. One of the things I'd love to highlight on the show, Chris, is success. I feel like we talk about the difficult things, but would you mind? I mean, it's kind of like tooting your own horn, I guess, but would you mind walking through some of the things you initially thought that were not possible, and now some of the things that you've been able to do to, you know, encourage others.

Speaker 2: 25:50

First and foremost, was going to business school, so that was something I'd wanted to do for several years. But then, you know, the symptoms started and I got so focused on that and what I was losing that I didn't think that it would still be possible. But again, through that process, I was able to show that I was able to do it and then I actually went out and did it. That that was a huge confidence boost for me, that. So that happened about almost 10 years ago now. I graduated in 2016, but my math might be a little bit off, but the point being, it was a huge confidence boost, because it's a very difficult step for anybody, even somebody that has full mobility, you know to make it through a full-time MBA program, and I was able to show myself that, yeah, I can do this, which then had the follow-on effect of giving me confidence to do other things, other hard things. I used to hate public speaking, but you know, it's something that, by telling my story, I've gotten a lot better at and something that I actually enjoy now, which is why I'm here talking at this very moment. Yeah, here you are. I loved writing, but I'd always kind of pushed it to the side, you know, just focused on other things. But I really got back to doing that over the last few years, first just kind of writing a blog about my story, just kind of sharing updates on my journey for family and friends, but then, within the last couple of years, starting Hello Adversity, which is kind of more audience focused, in the sense that I'm using my story but then taking it and applying it to readers. You know what they the takeaways from my story that they can use in their own lives, whether it's different strategies or different. You know, I didn't know if I'd be able to write consistently. I didn't think that that's something that I was good at and that I kind of expected to fail at it. But I was actually able to show that it is something I love to do and I love, you know, being able to interact with readers every week. They might have questions for me or they might be inspired by what I'm writing. Building an audience from scratch is definitely something that I never expected to be doing, but now I have a pretty decent readership and that's really motivating Also scary, but definitely motivating to write for them every week, knowing that hopefully I'm making a difference just a little bit maybe in their lives, and so that's definitely been a huge confidence boost.

Speaker 2: 28:10

And then, you know, the last thing that has been a big success for me is just my interpersonal relations, in terms of how I interact with people.

Speaker 2: 28:22

I think, having gone through this experience not to say that I was a shallow person before it, but I think since the symptoms have started and since, you know, since my life's been kind of changed forever by this disease, it's really kind of given me just an ability to kind of just cut through the fluff.

Speaker 2: 28:40

I really want to get to know people, I want to help them, I want to understand them and sometimes, by telling my story, I've given permission to people for people to tell their story, not explicit permission, but like they'll, just because they've read something that I've written they feel at liberty to share something about their lives that they might not be comfortable sharing with others.

Speaker 2: 29:00

And in the process of doing that, you know, that's how friendships are strengthened, relationships are strengthened. I have several friends that have shared things with me which I'll not share now, but they've shared things with me that I'm, like 99% sure they haven't shared with others, because they've seen how I've kind of talked about my own journey and they felt comfortable telling me because they know that I would understand it might be a different situation than what I'm going through, but just that process of kind of disclosing what's happening in my life, kind of give them the confidence to then share that with me, and through that we've become much better friends and you know, if there's any silver lining to this disease that's definitely one of them is just a lot of the friendships that I've made over the years have been strengthened because of this type of thing.

Speaker 1: 29:51

Yeah, I think it's one of those things that's just really undervalued is we get through this life through connection. I mean, that's a really. I mean we go back to caveman days and things like that. Now we have cars, we go to separate houses, but we were built on community, eating together and hunting together and whatever else, and so it's kind of unfortunate in some ways that we've gotten more, you know, disconnected and we're more connected than ever, but then disconnected at the same time, because that's really how we get through life.

Speaker 1: 30:17

I know, you know, when I have a section that I'm leading, when I first, you know, was in the roles of more like the manager roles and whatnot, like people didn't really want to bring anything to me, and it makes sense, like if someone appears to be all squared away and whatnot, like I'm not bringing you anything, I'm not bringing you anything, I'm not going to talk to you, and it wasn't until later. I was like, you know, I've been through a divorce and I co-parent and I've lost my dad and most of my grandparents have passed away, and you know, I just go through these things and again, I'm not trying to compare, I'm not trying to say I've been there, but I'm just saying I've been through a few things Like Like you can sit here and we can chat, and it wasn't until, you know, opened up about some of those challenges and difficulties I had, and then like, oh, and then people will come in and tell you, you know how things are going, and so I think we really got to lean on that and that connection to be able to connect with other people, because that's how we get through life. But it feels like, for whatever reason social media and whatnot we're a little more disconnected. Things look real good on social media.

Speaker 1: 31:15

I wish I try to do it every once in a while like post something I'm like frustrated with or something, cause I feel like it's always the vacation, it's always a good stuff. So every once in a while I try to make a point like you know, I'm having difficulty with this and try to get that out there too. I'm sure the ratio is one to 10 or or something, but I try to post a few things that are, you know, a little bit more on the negative side. So I'm like I don't want it to be all perfect, that's just obnoxious. But yeah, we'll move into your next pillar, chris, which is the psychology behind growth and mindset. So what do you think are some common psychological barriers that hold people back from success?

Speaker 2: 31:48

I think a lot of it comes down to mindset and just self-beliefs. They're kind of intertwined, but definitely in the self-belief side you can experience this too. Just you know, you see all the different obstacles involved, you see all the negative things and you just kind of conclude that it's not possible. So that belief that it can be possible is really hard to cultivate. It's not something that can be easily kind of overcome. It kind of just takes experience at least from my, my own life, I've kind of seen that. Or just it took a while to get to a point where I was able to kind of call myself out on my own bs in a way to be like okay, this actually is possible, like stop being dramatic, you just need to need to think it through a little bit more. The scripts that we tell ourselves are very powerful. You can very easily come to believe that something's not possible and then just internalize that and all of a sudden it becomes the truth because you're not willing to see if there's another way. Again, limiting beliefs, just the sense that you've kind of come up against your limit and that the thing that you really want to achieve is impossible, because maybe you've never achieved it before, or you've always come up against that limit and then just turned around and went home. So I think that's really one of the major factors and there's many ways to kind of get through those limiting beliefs. But I think just a lot of it, many ways to kind of get through those limiting beliefs, but I think just a lot of it comes back to kind of we were talking about before with confidence, of just the confidence that you can get through it. You can find a way that even if you fail, even if you fall flat on your face, that's not the end of the world and then through that, just eventually, you become more comfortable, stepping outside your comfort zone and then through that you eventually get to a point where some of the perceived beliefs you realize, you know, were kind of weren't that formidable. And I think the more that you're able to do that, the more evidence that you can amass that you are someone that's able to do that, you are someone that can do hard things, because you can again point back to oh well, I did it, you know, two years ago, doing this other difficult thing, or I was doing it a week ago and I had to do something even more difficult than this and eventually you get to a point where it's just like okay, I can do this. I recognize it's hard but it is possible. And so that kind of is both mindset and self-belief. But just sometimes we can be our own worst enemy.

Speaker 2: 34:16

Sometimes, and even if something's not readily apparent as to what the solution is, to at least believe that there is a solution, there is a way to do it. It might require you asking for help, it might require you doing some research, but there is a way through it. And it just you doing some research, but there is a way through it. And just you know over time, the more that you're able to see that that these perceived limits are not actually true or they're not nearly as formidable as you thought, the more that they become, the more that they lose their power.

Speaker 2: 34:47

I think to some degree those limits will always be there, or at least it's kind of like a a default response of, just like you want to do something hard, your immediate response is, oh, it's not possible.

Speaker 2: 35:01

But eventually you get to a point where it's just like okay, is this really true?

Speaker 2: 35:04

And then you can kind of be like no, because I've done it before, and then also, I know this is what I need to do, whether it's, you know, seeking out other resources, asking for help, etc. But there is a way through it and then just become more comfortable with that process of just, you know, even if you don't have the answer today, you know, eventually you'll get to that point where you will have an answer. But it's a very powerful process that those limiting beliefs, the inner critic, and that can trip up a lot of people, and I say that from experience. Again, it took me many years to get to a point where I started to see, like, okay, these things that I thought weren't possible anymore because of the disease, because of whatever lack of self-confidence, actually are possible. They just might require a different strategy, they might require more planning, they might require a greater appetite for failure, but they can be done and through that, all the success I've had in my life has come from moving beyond that point.

Speaker 1: 36:05

Yeah, it really makes me think of a couple things. The first one is one of my favorite books is Fierce Conversations by Susan Scott, and one of her quotes says we're having conversations all the time and sometimes they involve other people, and she's talking about the inner monologue. It's going all the time and so, yeah, from time to time there's other people involved in these conversations, but the one on the inside is always going from the moment you wake up and so if you're feeding it the negativity and whatnot that's with you just 24 hours, well, I guess you got to sleep at some point, but 18 hours a day or something, and so I always love that quote and try to reflect back. And the thing that makes me think of is I was reading about WD-40.

Speaker 1: 36:51

You got this lubricant thing that's in every household in the world. I've lived in Japan, I'm now in the UK, it doesn't matter where you are, you can buy WD-40. But that was the 40th recipe of that thing. They could have just as easily stopped at 39, quit because they didn't think they were going to be able to do it and they would never be known. No one would know what that was, but now it is a household name in like the entire world, because they pressed on, because 39 wasn't that great, didn't line up or whatever the scenario was, and they got to the 40th recipe, which was amazing, and now the entire world uses it. So sometimes you just got to press on that was.

Speaker 1: 37:33

It was really cool. I was like, oh, I just thought it was a random number, but I wanted to back up. It's kind of out of order, but I'm really curious. Chris, earlier you talked about the five stages and things like that. And one thing I want to highlight on this show I feel like in leadership you know books and things like that sometimes they go hypothetical, but I really want to get practical with the advice. So what's a practical step you have for someone that feels overwhelmed or defeated or just got bad news? Like what are the practical tips you have to be able to move through that?

Speaker 2: 38:03

I think. Well, it really depends on the situation, but I think two things that have helped me the most well when you're overwhelmed, the most helpful thing is to kind of just step away, take a break. It's counterintuitive because you want to just attack the problem, but sometimes, especially when I get overwhelmed, my mind starts to shut down and, just like all you know, just because it just gets overworked, like a computer that just overheats, and no matter how much I want to solve the problem right then and there, just sometimes, you have to admit that you just need to get away for a little bit, whether it's to go outside and go for a walk, or to just step away from your computer and read a book or to listen to music or to take a nap, something that's not the task itself or the thing that you're worrying about because that allows your mind to kind of recharge and reset. And that's again one of those strategies to talk about earlier that I constantly fail at is, even though I know it works, even though I've seen it work, I go against that advice so often. I found the most beneficial thing to do, especially when you're overwhelmed, is to take a break in terms of somebody that may have received bad news diagnosis or something to that nature. What eventually ended up working for me was just the process of journaling.

Speaker 2: 39:25

I'm not somebody that necessarily uses a specific type of journal, I don't have set prompts, I use every day but I do like to write things down and to just think through problems, think through how I'm feeling, because there's an act of actually writing it down, even writing down like what you're feeling, if they're negative emotions, of saying like I am scared, I am angry, I am frustrated, I worry about my future. Putting as much structure to that as possible in terms of just being able to identify what your emotions are and then what you're actually afraid of or what is frustrating you, what's scaring you. I think there's probably scientific. I feel like there's studies that have shown that. I don't remember exact ones, but there is something to that where that is helpful, just like giving something a name, saying okay, I'm afraid of X, I'm afraid of you know, I am afraid of Z, and then just kind of starting to think through okay, well, what's my response to that?

Speaker 2: 40:22

And this isn't something you do on day one, you know. You don't get a disease diagnosis and immediately jump into journaling mode where you just write about your feelings. You need time to to process that, but at some point especially what I experienced there kind of comes that question of now, what? Now? Hopefully it doesn't take as long as it took me, but if you can start to think about that in terms of like practical actions you can take, that's where journaling really is beneficial, because it just allows you to wrestle with problems, wrestle with specific questions.

Speaker 2: 40:53

You have to brainstorm things, to create lists, to cross things out, to draw pictures, whatever you need to do, to kind of just grapple with the problem. But then from there there are practical actions that usually spring up. That may not necessarily solve the problem right then and there, but at least can kind of get you moving forward towards action. So really the most, eventually you want to get to a place where you are acting in some way. I found that the process of action, at least for me, reduces anxiety. Again, little actions may not solve the problem, but they can at least get you future oriented, they can get you focused on the right things and then it can kind of build momentum from there. But it just gets you out of that rumination phase.

Speaker 1: 41:37

Yeah, that makes makes sense. There has to be something super powerful about the hand to pen to paper connection, because I've talked to people all over the world and journaling has come up more than anything else, with meditation right behind it, but journaling has been number one. So I don't know the study, like you said, but but it is very powerful. We'll move on to your final pillar, chris, which is competence. We've touched on it a little bit, so we'll just go through a couple real quick. I love the practical, like I mentioned. So what do you have for daily habits or routines that can impact self-esteem and confidence?

Speaker 2: 42:14

I'd say well, a lot of my confidence comes from taking action and just remembering you know that I am capable, that I am.

Speaker 2: 42:24

You know, I've done hard things before and I'll continue to do them again. I don't necessarily do this every day, but I do have a document that I call my highlight reel, which is just basically all of my accomplishments, all the nice things people have said to me, which is just basically all of my accomplishments, all the nice things people have said to me over the years, all of my best moments. To kind of show anytime, especially when I'm low on confidence or, you know, I failed at something, maybe didn't get a job that I'd wanted I opened that up and I'm able to see like, okay, you know, I've become a writer, I've done public speaking in front of a thousand people. You know I've become a writer, I've done public speaking in front of 1000 people. You know, helps people through a tough time, I'm writing a book, like all these things. All these accomplishments kind of are corrective in a way. To show like, okay, maybe I do have more competence than I thought, maybe my, I do have the ability to be successful, I do have the ability to accomplish a lot in life.

Speaker 2: 43:16

And, you know, whatever my inner critic is telling me at that moment, you know isn't true, because I have all this evidence that it is true. So I don't necessarily do that every day, but I use that fairly often. There have been times in the past where I've used affirmations. I became one of those things that I just keep forgetting to do. I became one of those things that I just keep forgetting to do, but I have found those to be helpful to kind of just, especially in the morning, to kind of get your mind in the right working order of just like. You know, whatever I face today, I can get through it. I am capable. You know, I have the ability, I'm loved. Whatever affirmations you need, but just like something to kind of start your day on a positive note and that just that kind of persists throughout the day, which is nice.

Speaker 1: 44:04

It's kind of a way to kind of prime your mind for the day ahead. Yeah, that's awesome. I actually have a wooden box I had made in Japan because I had some thank you cards and different stuff and I was like, what do I do with these? And so now I have that wooden box and I don't always open it up, like you said, like it doesn't bust out all the time, but in difficult moments or imposter syndrome or you don't think you're supposed to be in the room or whatever it is, I do, you know. Kind of glance back at the wooden boxes back there, it's like people sent me things, they hand wrote things, they took time. It was like you know something, they needed to do something for some reason. You know important loved things like that. So that's awesome. The last question in this one would be what's advice you have for someone struggling with self-doubt to push past fear.

Speaker 2: 44:45

I think really well. One that I haven't touched on is the recognition that others are likely feeling the exact same thing that you're feeling. So, in terms of you're talking about imposter syndrome briefly earlier, you know there have been times where I'm about to go on stage and maybe there was a speaker before me, or I know that there's a speaker after me. That's really accomplished and I'm just like I don't belong here, or they're going to find out that I'm a complete fraud and you know, I just it can be really, you know, paralyzing in the sense that you know, all of a sudden you psych yourself out. I just remember, like you know everybody's feeling that way. Everybody gets nervous.

Speaker 2: 45:36

I remember there's some NBA star star I can't remember who it was, but like they threw up before every game because they're nervous, like that kind of thing, that nerves are normal, self-doubt is normal, everybody else is kind of winging it to. Everybody else feels like they're an amateur, about to get found out, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you can kind of realize you're on a level playing field. I mean, there definitely are people that are confident, that might just lack self-awareness, but for the most part most people are, you know, terrified of the same things that you're terrified of, are afraid to show vulnerability, are afraid to put themselves out there. You know, if they're doing something creative or artistic, you know they have self-doubt that their book that they write is going to be a flop or that the thing that they drew um or painted is, you know, going to get panned.

Speaker 2: 46:24

Everybody has that self-doubt going in. But what separates people is that some people actually move past that and just continue on accepting that that might happen but it likely won't happen. Then some people just never. They turn around and go back Like they're just like. I don't want to face the potential for rejection, the potential for embarrassment, and so I would just piece of advice I'd give is just to push through that and just to know that that feels completely normal.

Speaker 1: 46:50

And I think it's like. I think it's good, I think it's something that's odd where it's like, over the course of time we've seen it as a bad thing. But I have two examples from my life which I think you know help demonstrate Like. So. My first career field was air traffic control. So telling airplanes not to hit each other, and I remember feeling, you know, a little nervous to step into position, and I remember, you know, a wise mentor was like it's good that you feel nervous. If you don't care, there's a problem. If you don't care, if two planes hit each other, people die and millions of dollars are lost, there's a problem. That's weird. You should feel a little apprehensive, not, you know, too much. Everything in this life is about balance. But I thought that was really powerful. We're like that shows that you care. And so the other example I have is it was like my second episode of this podcast ever.

Speaker 1: 47:41

I wanted to interview Chief Woods. He's a huge personality, big, big person, he's awesome, and he was about to leave. I was like flying out the next morning, and so I had one day. I was like, hey, could we do it today? I rushed into his office, I bolted these you know, microphones down, and I was out of breath because I was freaked out. And I remember he's like you know, take a deep breath, you're fine. But he said the same thing. He said I love that you're nervous because it means you care. If you didn't care, you wouldn't give any effort, you wouldn't be nervous, you'd just be trying to wing it, it wouldn't be that great. He's like you put the time and effort in and you have that nervousness because it's something that you care about. And so I wish the nervousness would be more related to like care, as opposed to like, oh, I don't want to feel that, I don't want to do it, that's good. I mean, it doesn't feel good, I guess, but it is good, right, yeah?

Speaker 2: 48:33

it's evidence that you're pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. If you weren't nervous then you're probably not doing something that was really a big risk. But it's only through kind of getting nervous and pushing yourself, putting yourself out there, that you know the greatest life breakthroughs can take place.

Speaker 1: 48:56

So nerves are a positive indicator in a way. Yeah, absolutely. I think Will Smith or a couple of different people have mentioned like skydiving, like the greatest euphoria when you actually are in free fall comes after that moment of just complete terrifiedness. You know you have to push through that. I got my mom to jump at 50 and she closed her eyes the whole time, so it's funny. So now she wants to jump again, cause I'm like, oh, you missed the best part of the actual like viewing and the experience on the way down. She was still a little freaked out. But well, chris, I'd like to try to bring all these yeah, exactly, bring all these things together. If listeners could take one key lesson from this conversation, what do you hope it is?

Speaker 2: 49:33

I would just say to, basically, just don't overcomplicate confidence, to just you do have the ability, you do have the capacity to handle adversity. You're more resilient than you realize. Even if you don't know how to do something, that doesn't mean that it's not possible. If you're facing something difficult, you will get through it. That's not platitudes, that's not, you know, toxic positivity or whatever. It's just an admission that you know this is life. Life is all about difficulty. It's about facing hard things and then finding a way through it, no matter how imperfectly. You know someone like myself that made every mistake in the book to eventually get to where I'm at today. I know that. You know whoever's listening to this.

Speaker 2: 50:23

If you're facing something difficult, that you can get through it, I mean it doesn't mean you're gonna do it easily. It doesn't mean that you're going to make it go away completely. But there is life on the other side of whatever you're dealing with. I may have to be learning to live with the challenge through your entire life, like I have to live with this disease, but you know you will adapt, you will find a way through that and as long as you're willing to keep going, as long as you're willing to accept that you're going to do it imperfectly. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to have days where everything feels like it's falling apart Again.

Speaker 2: 51:02

Nobody's grading you on how you're handling adversity, and if they were, I think we would all fail. So I think that removes a lot of the pressure, in a way, of trying to do things perfectly or trying to make things go away completely. Once you accept that they're not going to go away completely, even if you somehow got through whatever you're going through, there'll be something else waiting for you on the other side. That's just as difficult. So it's just. Life is just a series of navigating obstacles. But you know, just rely on others, seek support, have conversations with people where you let them know what's going on and I think I'll say you'd be just fine, but I think you'll. You know, you'll find a way to navigate that and maybe inspire somebody else in the process.

Speaker 1: 51:46

Perfect. Well, thank you, Chris. Thank you for coming out. Where can people connect and learn more about you?

Speaker 2: 51:50

Yeah, so uh, you could subscribe to my newsletter on hello adversity. It's hello adversitysubstackcom. I think I'll include that in the show notes so I can, if I have to spell it out, this could go downhill in a hurry.

Speaker 2: 52:05

Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much the main thing that I use. I don't really use social media too much. I do have LinkedIn. Don't forget to connect with me on LinkedIn, but that's about it. Awesome, If you subscribe to my newsletter, it'll send an automated email, and then if you wanted to respond to that, um, I'd be. I'd love to hear from you.

Speaker 1: 52:26

Perfect. Well, that is a wrap. Big Thank you for tuning in. If you have thoughts, questions or ideas for future episodes, please drop me a message on any of the social media platforms. I'm on. Please drop a review message on any of the social media platforms. I'm on. Please drop a review if you got some extra time. We'll see you next time. I love you all. See ya, Thank you you.