Beyond Labels: One Woman's Journey to Reclaim Her Mental Health w/ Dr. Azi Jankovic

What happens when a 15-minute psychiatric evaluation at age 17 leads to decades of struggle with a bipolar diagnosis? Azi Jankovic joins us to share her remarkable journey from psychiatric hospitalizations and medication side effects to reclaiming her authentic self through a whole-person approach to mental health.

"I received a bipolar diagnosis over the course of the first 15 minutes of my very first ever psychiatrist appointment," she reveals. "That moment led me to decades of being labeled and feeling extremely limited." After multiple hospitalizations, including being taken to institutions in handcuffs, Azi reached her breaking point in 2022 when a psychiatrist prescribed contraindicated medications and then labeled her a "difficult patient" for questioning the error. That moment became her catalyst for change.

Azi walks us through her "four Ps" framework for holistic mental health: physiology (physical body), psychology (mind), purpose (spiritual/philosophical underpinnings), and people (social connections). She details how implementing changes across these domains—including a supervised medication taper, nutritional improvements, movement practices, and prioritizing authentic connections—transformed her life after years of suffering.

One of the most powerful threads in our conversation explores the transformative power of belief. She shares how finding someone who believes in you "increases your likelihood of success by multiples," drawing from both her personal experience and doctoral research in education. When external validation isn't available, she emphasizes learning to counter our inner critic with self-belief: "If we can learn to identify that voice and counter that voice with belief in ourselves, we're unstoppable."

Whether you're navigating your own mental health journey or supporting someone who is, this episode offers practical wisdom for moving beyond limiting diagnoses toward wholeness and authenticity. As Azi powerfully reminds us, "Even though you might believe that your life is going to go a certain way, and it may be so dark for you right now, things can change in a blink." Ready to reclaim your story? This conversation shows it's possible.

https://mindforcepodcast.buzzsprout.com

Chapters

• 0:50 Introduction to Mindforce Podcast
• 1:53 Gail's Bipolar Diagnosis Story
• 5:10 The Importance of Movement and Nature
• 9:05 Nate's Mental Health Mission
• 12:30 Whole Person Approach to Mental Health
• 18:08 Personal Transformation Journey
• 30:01 The Healing Power of Belief
• 42:01 Final Message of Hope

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:23

Hi everyone, I'm Nate Shearer and this is Mindforce, the podcast that helps us navigate love, life and learning, one serious conversation at a time. Today, we'll be diving into a powerful conversation about personal transformation, resilience and the deep driving force behind belief. Behind belief, what we'll be exploring today is what it takes to overcome mental health struggles using a whole person approach, the kind of growth that comes from facing impossible odds, and how belief, both in yourself and from others, can reshape your reality. We'll start with our guest introduction. I'd love to hear your story in your own words. Who are you, what moves you right now and what brings you here today?

Speaker 2: 1:08

Wow, well, thank you so much for having me Nate. This is awesome. I'm so excited to share this story with your listeners and also share everything that I possibly can on the state of our mental health landscape and what we can do to empower ourselves to live our best lives and feel better. When I was 17 years old, I received a bipolar diagnosis over the course of the first 15 minutes of my very first ever psychiatrist appointment, and that moment led me to decades of being labeled and feeling extremely limited, as well as suffering immensely from the side effects and effects of the treatments that I was given.

Speaker 2: 1:58

I've you know, I've learned so much and you know. You asked me who I am. I am a mother, and I am a friend and a community member, and wearing all those hats reminds me every day how important it is to share the lessons that I have worked so hard to learn in this journey, and all of those lessons could have saved me truly decades of struggling and really suffering, and I know that, as much as we hear these statistics like mental health issues might affect one in five the, the hard facts are that mental health challenges will touch every single person on this planet, and I believe that by having the information, we can be empowered to overcome those situations, those challenges, and really live the life that we were given. That's our birthright. You know, there's just a lot of suffering, nate, and I want to help ease that.

Speaker 1: 3:03

That's perfect, gail. That's one of my favorite questions is who are you? Because I want to help ease that. That's perfect. Yeah, that's one of my favorite questions is who are you? Because I love to leave that open ended. You know everyone answers it differently. Some people take a few minutes, some take it, you know shorter, but that's awesome to you know.

Speaker 1: 3:14

Get the introduction and start with like who you are. And I think that's like the most important part of the show and that's what I love the most is the storytelling, because I feel like the biggest problem we have with mental health or mental fitness, as I like to call it here is not realizing that there's other people, right, I feel like that's how we get through things and we connect. The human connection is super important, and so I think that's when we get to the darkest moments and we start to spiral where it's like it's only me, it's like 8 billion people in the world. You're not the only one. So if you're ever struggling or whatnot, you start to have that thought, just try to kick it away. You are not the only one. Even if someone has never lived that exact thing, there is a parallel and there's someone that will hold the space with you.

Speaker 2: 3:58

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 4:00

Just to set the tone where in the world are you calling from?

Speaker 2: 4:04

I live in Israel.

Speaker 1: 4:09

Nice. That must be interesting. We'll move into your warm-up. What's a small habit or practice you've picked up lately that's made a major impact?

Speaker 2: 4:19

Small habit that I've picked up lately. Well, you know, it's not such a small habit, but it can be. It's really movement and I think that you know we are so connected to nature, Nate, we are these divinely orchestrated beings with trillions of activities going on in our bodies every single day, and we are so intricately tied to nature, in what we eat, in the light we're exposed to, in our sleeping wake cycles. In so many ways we're connected to nature but in this modern system and this sort of modern landscape that we're in, in many ways we've been cut off from that, and I find that movement is a way to really reconnect with our nature and it is a powerful, proven stress reliever and also a remedy. It's really a medicine that can help people move through really difficult emotions, really challenging physiological states and psychological states, and I am a huge proponent of movement in whatever capacity people can do it.

Speaker 1: 5:30

And do you have a recent time where you were out and something kind of struck you, you know awe-inspiring, or you took a moment, took a deep breath, that was out in nature.

Speaker 2: 5:40

My gosh. This morning there was a windstorm and I've never in my life never I'm turning 45 this year never witnessed a wind of this capacity. All of a sudden, I was in bed early in the morning working on my book and I heard this noise. I thought it was a street cleaner. I didn't know what it was, and there were things flying all around outside, leaves everywhere, and I heard trees even falling and breaking on the street. And it was sure enough, it was wind, and it was just such a powerful moment and a reminder that life can be so surprising and so much of life is outside of our control, and it's truly, it's mind-boggling, it's amazing and awe-inspiring all at the same time.

Speaker 1: 6:25

Yeah, that's definitely true and it's interesting how, like you said, you didn't notice it until you noticed it. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and it's pretty up there for the most part, but it's a lot of rain. I mean, it always was kind of overcast and I didn't appreciate it as much as I should. But I was one station in Guam, so I'm in a small island in the middle of the Pacific should, but I was one station in Guam, so I'm in a small Island in the middle of the Pacific and there I remember you know, maybe it was I was scuba diving and doing some other stuff, but the just beauty in nature, the colors of the fish, the turtles, the things you see, the sunsets, even the stars, because out in Guam the Island is so small that you know amount of saturation from lights and stuff doesn't, you know, kind of penetrate the sky as much, and so the stars are so bright and so vivid, and so that was like one of the first times at 30 years old or whatever I was where I really stopped and, you know, took, took appreciation of nature and now I feel like it's one thing that's super recharging, and I don't know if it was always there and I just kind of had to uncover it.

Speaker 1: 7:26

But now, like being underwater or mountain biking or whatever it is, being in the nature and seeing how beautiful it is is super, super recharging.

Speaker 2: 7:36

I love that, you know. Just, you're reminding me of this one moment I had had. It was Saturday afternoon and I was in my yard, laying in the hammock, looking up at the trees and noticing how many shades of green and yellow were in the leaves and the way that the light was peeking through and, you know, casting beams and shadows and colors, and I thought to myself wow, you know, for most of my life I wasn't well enough to see this beauty. And now I am. And it was such a small but powerful, powerful moment and I just want to share that with as many people as I can.

Speaker 1: 8:11

Absolutely so. The next part is I always feel like these conversations are one directional because it's you know you're the guest and so it's all your direction. But I'd love to see if you have a question for me before we jump into your three main pillars. Yeah, I'm curious to hear how mental health has become so important to you Absolutely, absolutely. So. I started the show dedication to my grandma. I lost to a mental health battle as a kid and she was always a bright, shining light to me, so trying to carry on that legacy for the people that won't get to experience her, hopefully experiencing some of these things throughout this, but one of the things that's super important to me is is people, and that's kind of cheesy and cliche, but I'm in like a leadership position at work and so I went to school and got my degree in industrial and organizational psychology, but I just love seeing how people interact and how they take care of each other and how they should probably take care of each other better, wow.

Speaker 1: 9:09

Yeah so that interaction is just super important to me. We have the unfortunate you know thing right now of losing 22 veterans a day, maybe even more depending on where the statistic lies. But there's so many people that have gotten out or I've touched along the way or talked to along the way that have been in really dark places due to alcohol or PTSD or a long list of other things. So I just want to make sure that if someone can find a resource or connect with somebody that they can avoid making a permanent decision to something you know that's temporary. We can get through it, we can pass it along, but I think you have to get out of the darkness and break the cycle. So the main thing I want to do on the show is one actionable tips, because I think a lot of books and different stuff like even the trainings we go to in the military they're kind of hypotheticals and things like that. So I really want to focus on like actionable tips, things that someone could take this week, this month, this year and get after it. And the other part is the success and get after it. And the other part is the success Again, like in the trainings that we do. It seems like, watch the warning sides for suicide, they're going to give all their stuff away.

Speaker 1: 10:12

And we focus on all the negative aspects, the things that you know, I think we're pretty aware of at this point, but we never seem to do the other side. It was a dark time. They pressed through and now they have the car they want, the relationship they want, they got married, they had a kid, they got their promotion. So some of my first episodes like I think my second one ever was a lady I used to work with and she, you know, went inpatient for mental health and you know, was able to bounce back and was able to get some promotions and positions that she wanted and things like that and that was perfect. Like let's see the bounce back. Like we focus so much on the negative, but yeah, so it's kind of long winded, but does that make sense.

Speaker 2: 10:47

Yeah, I love that and my book is all about taking action and I am happy to share anything and everything with your listeners. I'm also curious what was your grandmother's name?

Speaker 1: 10:59

Beth Bryan.

Speaker 2: 11:02

Yeah, beth, sounds like she was a special woman that you would dedicate this whole podcast to her.

Speaker 1: 11:06

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. She was amazing and it's interesting. And I think that's one thing that, like you know, hurts me the most. I think is, like you know, the people that we've lost, like Robin Williams and that's the one, I think, that affects me the most is where they were the happy one and making everyone else happy, like my grandma would pull over on the side of the road and fix a tire or do whatever. She was, you know, talking to people at the grocery store and like I remember her with a smile like most minutes of her entire life. So it's like bizarre to me that she had to bury it and that you know stigma back then where she couldn't talk about it, and then, you know, later found out she'd spend like a week or two in bed depressed. Didn't know that, you know seventh grade and things like that, so probably not even able to wrap my head around it at that point, but I think that's the point of the whole show, right, just having conversations and being able to connect.

Speaker 2: 11:56

So important.

Speaker 1: 11:58

Absolutely so. Your first main pillar is that whole person approach to mental health. When did you first realize your mental health needed a different kind of attention?

Speaker 2: 12:22

label by a psychiatrist, I had a whisper that perhaps there was a better way, perhaps there was a different way and perhaps there was more to the story, and at the same time, I buried that with this self-doubt. You know, who are you, little Ozzie, to question the doctor in the white coat? And who are you to, you know, be skeptical about an entire system that includes people that are highly, highly educated. And yet, over time and with many years of struggling, you know, I myself have been in inpatient seven times, a few times against my will. I've been on dozens of different medications. I've had side effects. I mean, I was on a path to chronic disease just three years ago and I think that it hit me really hard in the winter of 2022, when I was seeing this psychiatrist who was supposed to be the bipolar specialist in my whole country. He prescribed me medication that was contraindicated with something else that was on my list and fortunately, the general practitioner caught the mistake. And when I confronted the psychiatrist with this in a text message, he called me a difficult patient and he threatened me, and at that moment I knew that my husband wanted me to stay with conventional treatment, but I also realized in that moment that I had to take back my power and there had to be a different way, and so I slowly began a supervised taper. I found a doctor who would supervise me. I think I was taking about six different medications, so she helped me over the course of several months taper down safely.

Speaker 2: 14:06

I'm still not completely off, I'm still tapering off the very last 3%, but I also began implementing many of the things that I'd learned over time from the functional medicine space and really practical. You know functional medicine I'm a huge fan. I know it's also become for some people complicated and unaffordable and so I was fortunate to find doctors who made some basic testing really practical for me. We get that through our socialized medicine here and I know that it's also available through many insurances around the world. Got some basic testing done, got on some basic supplementation.

Speaker 2: 14:43

I did an overhaul on what I was eating. I discovered the work of Dr Christopher Palmer, who speaks about the ketogenic diet for bipolar anxiety, ptsd, schizophrenia, and now that is recommended to be a medically supervised diet. But there are variations that can be done. You know more simple approaches of, for example, taking out processed food, replacing processed food with more whole foods, cooking more at home and really simplifying the ingredients and upping my own level of nutrition. And then movements Going to therapy also learning therapy tools, practicing therapeutic tools on my own and making my mental health a priority, really carving out those times on the calendar and time blocking what I needed. That could be something as simple, nate, as making sure I'm home and winding down in the evening, rather than pushing myself to go out to yet another you know work event or another function or another social event, choosing my health before everything else, and it's been transformational.

Speaker 1: 15:54

What advice do you have for people that you know are concerned? I feel like it's a really difficult thing. Like you said, you have people that have gone to school for a long time, they're considered the expert and things like that. Like I guess maybe two part question like one how do you know or identify something's off? And then, once you do you know, what advice do you have when you don't feel like you are, you know, the expert?

Speaker 2: 16:20

Absolutely so. I think that the expert question comes to the surface for me. First, because you know, it used to be the sort of buyer beware situation when we would go visit a car dealership or we would go visit a doctor. We just didn't know what was happening behind the curtain, we didn't have access to information. Know what was happening behind the curtain, we didn't have access to information.

Speaker 2: 16:44

And in today's day and age we have chat, gpt and we can go on and we can describe our symptoms and we can, you know, ask what could this possibly be? Obviously you're going to do that with some common sense, that you are dealing with technology and not a doctor, but at the same time, we could ask questions about our care and our treatment. If you're prescribed a medication, you can get to the bottom of. You know what is this medication? What has it been studied for? Has it been studied long-term? Has it been studied on people my age? What are the side effects? Is this a drug? Does it cause dependency or addiction? You know many of the issues people are having now.

Speaker 2: 17:17

Some of the experts in the critical psychiatry space are talking about, how you know, severe impulsivity, even violence, even suicide. There is a correlation with treatments, with psychiatric treatments and a lot of what we're seeing, and it's tragic. And so I think if someone wants more information, they should start there. You can start with technology. I think that we also just take a step back from that. You know, there's the information piece, but there's also this normalizing your humanity piece, and I have spent so much time trying to understand psychology and you know how we as humans have evolved and what can we do to have a better mental experience, and I think that one of the most liberating ideas I've found is that there is such a wide range of human emotions and experiences that are actually normal. One of my favorite quotes is from a psychiatrist, dr Victor Frankl, who wrote Man's Search for Meaning, and he survived the Holocaust and he actually studied the death camps when he was there and said you know, an abnormal response to an abnormal situation is actually normal behavior.

Speaker 2: 18:30

And so if you're listening to this right now, you can think about all of the quote unquote abnormal things that have happened in your life and that could be something you've been through personally, but it could also be something that you've seen on the news or that you've seen on social media. You know we are exposed to so much more by way of the visuals and the audio, and this emotional component of what we're exposed to I don't think has been fully explored or understood. And so, yes, you know we're subject to that. We're subject to so many unnatural influences in our life, from the light that we're around Some people are working indoors all day to the convenience foods that we eat that just throw off the natural balance.

Speaker 2: 19:14

And so I would say listen, no matter what you're experiencing, there's a way to understand it and it is normal within the context of your inputs, whatever your inputs have been. And so, moving forward, it's a process of really slowly and carefully analyzing what has led you to this point. What is your environment like, what are the inputs like and how are they making you feel, and then how can we slowly but really consciously make some adjustments to help you feel better yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 19:45

So in the regards of whole person. So we wrap, you know, wrap up this. What did the whole person approach look like for you in that mind, body, spirit? You mentioned a few things, but what were all those changes and which ones were the most beneficial? And maybe it's per person and things like that, but how did you define that whole person as you made that transition?

Speaker 2: 20:10

Yeah, I love that, I love that question and the way that I break down the whole person is that there's four systems. I call them the four Ps. Okay, so the first one is physiology, and that's every system within your body, your physical body, and then, of course, there's a psychology piece, which is your mind. There's also what I call purpose, that's like the spiritual component or the philosophical underpinning of how you think and what you believe. And then there's the other, the fourth P, which is people.

Speaker 2: 20:38

What's the influence of people in your life? Are you supported by people? Do you have community? Do you have resources? Are there people to celebrate with you and to help you through the hard times? And so by looking at each of those four different domains, we can get a better picture for what the needs might be.

Speaker 2: 20:56

For me, it was really all of them at different points in my life, and I'm careful to devote some time as best as I can every day.

Speaker 2: 21:27

You know, the goal is not perfection, it's progress. My husband start his business and working and I mean doing so many things that I looked at my friendships as a luxury in that time. And yet I was in my early 30s when I was first hospitalized, I had kept this bipolar diagnosis to myself, partially because I didn't totally believe in it, also because I felt so afraid of what would people do if they found out the true story about me. What would happen if people knew the truth about me? Then there's something wrong with me. I really felt broken, and by creating that distance between me and my close friends I isolated myself, and so that's been. A really big shift is just learning how to be authentic with other people, and in doing that, in starting to share my story, I've found so much more emotional intimacy than I ever knew was possible because I remember I had this pet peeve when I went off to school to, you know, take over the position that I'm in.

Speaker 1: 22:22

One of the things they said is like you'll have no bad days and I'm like that's the weirdest thing ever, like they just want us to be robot in these leadership positions. But I found just so much connection and whatnot in vulnerability. You know, brene Brown and things like that.

Speaker 1: 22:36

Yeah, just so interesting because I, you know, when I crossed over into those leadership positions, like I need to maintain and not say anything and not you know be who I was. And it's funny because you know, a few months later I'm joking and having fun again, because you can really only be your fake self for so long. But back to the vulnerability piece like I would start to share with the flights that I had, that I've been through divorce and I co-parent and I've lost, you know, my grandma and I lost my dad a few years ago. And you know I'm not bringing these things up to bring down.

Speaker 1: 23:09

You know the party and be a negative Nancy, but it always bugs me with, like the open door policy or whatever you know kind of buzz term we have. Like oh, you can visit me at any time, but like if it's someone is perfect or doesn't seem to be, you know, on that, if they're on a pedestal and that separation gap and things like that, I don't really want to come tell you anything. And so I hope that when I share, you know those things like I'm not saying I've seen everything, I'm not saying I'm going to solve your problem, like I don't have it all together, it's not perfect and I've been through a few things, so come on in and just let me know if we're trying to solve this or if you're trying to vent. But yeah, that connection and the vulnerability for the longest time it seemed like vulnerability was weak, but wow, the connections I've made. I'll share the story every time.

Speaker 2: 23:57

A gift, what a gift to other people that you're showing up with so much honesty, and it is brave. It really is.

Speaker 1: 24:05

It's tough. You know I didn't want to share some of the stories at first, but you know it comes with practice. I guess your second pillar is personal transformation and defying the odds. So, looking back, what would your younger self be most shocked to know about your life today?

Speaker 2: 24:21

You know it's funny the other day we were doing some spring cleaning and there was this piece of paper folded up on the living room floor and I picked it up and it was a ninth grade graduation speech that I had given. I don't know where it came from. It was on my living room floor last week and I picked it up and I read it and I said, wow, this is so good. And I had this moment where I thought to myself you know that ninth grade girl standing on the stage I don't know if she would have believed what happened for so many years and that she would forget her power and that she would forget how idealistic and how energetic and how hopeful and motivated and creative she was. But it happened, it really happened.

Speaker 2: 25:09

You know, for so many years I was living this like smaller version of myself and I didn't even know that it happened and I forgot who I was before all of this. So you know, I think that there's like a magic of youth and I've actually heard this from a few other people as well that you know, a friend of mine just got divorced after being married for 35 years, and she said, for the first time in her life. She remembers what it's like to be a kid again, and obviously we don't all have to go through a divorce or the same things to get that feeling. But the way I look at it, it's more so about tapping into your authenticity and remembering who you are, because sometimes life can make us forget.

Speaker 1: 25:58

Yeah, that's difficult. So when was your diagnosis or for how long did you live with that kind of second life or trying to kind of hide behind this label that was given?

Speaker 2: 26:09

Yeah. So shortly after that ninth grade graduation, I started feeling very down and I was a pretty deep kid. I was like into poetry and Tori Amos and you know, thinking really deeply about things and sort of wondering, nate, like, why are we memorizing the periodic table and the names of the Greek gods when we don't even know the names for emotions, you know, and I still wonder that. I felt that really deeply as a kid and I ended up in my general practitioner's office and my mom drove me in, sat in the waiting room and I filled out this survey, a 21 question back inventory, and it asks, you know, on a scale of one to five, how do you feel about these different questions? How hopeful or hopeless do you feel? And have you ever thought of hurting yourself? And you know, on and on, and I fudged my answers because I was so afraid of my mom seeing how broken I really was and I wanted I was like caretaking for her. Subconsciously she didn't ask me to do that, but I just felt this need to like make sure everyone else was okay. And I ended up getting a diagnosis of moderate depression that day and I was given 20 milligrams of Prozac and over the next three years. That just went up and up and up until I was at the maximum dose.

Speaker 2: 27:30

My senior year of high school, and I was just like high as a kite. My senior year I had a skateboarding accident compound fracture in my foot. I was pushing it, burning the candle at both ends. Academically, I was headed for university with a scholarship. I was, you know, won the writer of the year award at graduation. And then I was headed for university with a scholarship I was, you know, won the writer of the year award at graduation.

Speaker 2: 27:50

And then I headed off on my first trip to Europe, and then Israel that summer, and my cast was freshly removed. I was on the plane to Europe, first stop Rome, and we got up in the air and all of a sudden I felt the metal in my foot, just swelling and swelling, and swelling. And 10 hours later, as we were, you know, getting ready to land, I hadn't got a wink of sleep and everyone else is getting off the plane feeling refreshed and I'm in utter pain and exhausted. And the pain got worse with Advil, with melatonin. Nothing helped me sleep and I wound up a week later, completely sleep deprived and back in California. I had to leave the trip early, and that's when I landed in the psychiatrist's office.

Speaker 2: 28:32

In my book I call him Dr Grimsky that is a pseudonym. Maybe one day we'll get into the facts of who this person really is. But what's most important is that he's part of a system that he was adhering to, and I just felt so terrible about myself and so ashamed when I received that diagnosis. And what happened in that stint of my life was that he put me on lithium and some other medications that had never been studied in children or teens and they were completely being used off-label and they'd actually never been studied long-term. And there I was taking these neurotoxins and, within a matter of days, losing my personality, losing all of my energy and my will to live, and waking up, you know, first day of freshman year, as someone I'd no longer recognized. My clothes didn't fit and I couldn't retrieve my thoughts or feelings, and I wound up failing out of my freshman year of college and I had to move back in with my parents, which was also a big, you know. I felt really ashamed because for so long I had worked hard to, you know, get that scholarship and get to college, and so that was really the first phase and I rebuilt my life. My brother at the time was a trainer. My brother's a great guy. He also is really into helping veterans these days and back then he trained me. He got me motivated. I got super into fitness and I powered through college and just never really told anybody what had happened. I sort of slid it under the rug and put on this facade, like this perfection you know Brene Brown talks about like the armor of perfection, and I just went back to trying to be this high-achieving Dean's List, you know student, and I pulled it off more or less for my 20s. You know I met a great guy, got married and started a family and got a job as a teacher. You know I was checking off boxes.

Speaker 2: 30:22

But by the time I was 32, everything changed. I was starting off my doctorate. My youngest child was two. I had three little kids under the age of 10. And started the doctorate and was just juggling so many balls. I was so afraid of dropping any of my commitments. I didn't want to let anyone down. I didn't want to let down the community or the PTA or my family or you know, work fewer hours. I just was so afraid and turned to Ritalin. I turned to pharmaceuticals which was a big mistake on my part to get through the day, to have extra energy, to sleep less.

Speaker 2: 31:02

And in finals week of 2012, it caught up with me. I had a massive stress in the family coupled with finals, and I just again stopped sleeping and ended up in an institution for my first time, actually in the back of a cop car, and that's how I got there. That's a whole story in and of itself. My husband had called mental health services in LA and they dispatched the LAPD and because I wasn't speaking and answering their questions, because I was so confused, they handcuffed me and put me in a cop car and that was a pretty rude awakening to the system, to, you know, a deeper side of the system, and gosh, the last, I guess.

Speaker 2: 31:41

From there on, from 2012 to 2022, I was in and out seven times. I went through some periods that were pretty, pretty good. I, you know, did move across the world and acclimate to a new country, but my last stint was in 2022. And I think that's when I realized, you know, getting out and then going to that quote unquote expert and having that terrible experience, I realized you know what enough is enough. Like I'm. I've thrown enough time away here. I've spent years in bed and I got. I just have to persevere. I need a better way, and that's what I've been building for the last three years.

Speaker 1: 32:19

Yeah, that makes sense. So I'm curious. Earlier we were talking about. You know I don't want to focus on all the negative. It lays an awesome foundation, so not to like discredit it at all. Thank you for sharing that part of the story.

Speaker 2: 32:33

Yeah, but I'm curious.

Speaker 1: 32:35

When was the first moment? Like because we had talked about this, like the success, right, what was the day? Was there a day where I'm me, this is like it's all good, not all good, but was there like an epiphany type you know day where, like I'm me, I'm you know setting boundaries? What did that day?

Speaker 2: 32:54

There's so many. First of all, today's a really good day. I found out my book's an Amazon number one bestseller today, nate, it was so weird because I didn't do any bestseller campaigns, I didn't do any paid marketing. I literally went on Amazon to upload some images and there was the number one and I was like yesterday I just prayed. I prayed for a sign. You know like this is so hard to put out in the world. I've never worked not on my doctorate, nothing I've never worked so hard on one thing. Just give me a sign. So that was a really cool thing, and I believe in signs. I really do. I believe when we look for them, they appear.

Speaker 2: 33:25

And in 2022, when I was going through that rough time and I had that expert quote, unquote expert doctor giving me the bad news, I went out on my balcony outside of my room and I just laid down on my stomach with my head on the ground, facing the hills of Jerusalem in front of me, and I just prayed in the only words that I could. I said help me, help me, help me. It's all I would say. It was hard to find the words and I had this one moment after days and days of doing this in a row. Where I saw this, I closed my eyes and I, you know, sometimes you close your eyes, you see like bright lights, and there was like this yellow light emanating in my, the middle of my vision, and I just heard my own voice saying help me, help me, help me. And I felt in that moment that I was no longer asking God to help me, but God was asking me to help. And I said, you know what? Forget progress for a second. Let me just take everything I've learned up into this point and see what I can do with it. And you know, I think there's a real power that you have. Everyone listening has to help other people and I believe it's so powerful, it's such an antidote for our own suffering to remember other people and to remember that in any moment you know something, you've learned something that can help someone else. So for me, that was a real turning point, it was a moment of empowerment and I think that my growth and my transformation that happened, it just spiraled.

Speaker 2: 34:56

You know, I remember a few weeks thereafter my daughter transferred schools to a place about 30 minutes away, so that meant that I had to get up at seven every morning and I was tired from those drugs. But I did it. I did it for her, to help her, and every morning in the car I'd get up and I'd have my coffee and she would turn on her music she's really into fun, like pop music, and she'd play me all these new songs, all these new hits. And what was so cool is it was like making new memories and new experiences. It wasn't tied to anything in the past, it was just this moment, with loud music and my coffee in my car, with my 14 year old daughter, and it was so therapeutic. It was so, so therapeutic. So that was. That was big too, and I could just keep going on and on, because there's so many things that have helped me.

Speaker 1: 35:43

Nice. Well, I'm glad you could share a couple of those short stories showing success and the ability to bounce back. Your final pillar is the power of belief. What role does faith, community or even spirituality play in your ability to bounce back?

Speaker 2: 36:02

Yeah, so the you know, I think of the word amen or amen, which is connected to the root word in Hebrew for faith and also belief, and those two words are really closely aligned. And I really, in my own life, have seen the power of belief. I'll tell you, when I was doing my doctoral research in the poorest schools in Los Angeles, where these kids are they have so many challenges I was looking for the bright spots, the outliers, who really the students that go on to hit their goals against all the odds, and I interviewed the teachers of those students about their methods and what I learned in the research, what I learned in having these conversations and collecting data, was that if a student has a teacher who believes in them, who also has a relationship with them, that increases their likelihood of success by multiples. And I think that in life, if we can find someone who believes in us, it's a game changer, it's next level, you know.

Speaker 2: 37:12

But the challenge arises when we look around and we don't yet have that or see that, we can't find that. And so I believe you know that this spiritual journey that we're all on, whether or not you're a spiritual person you could think about it as, even like a practical journey. There's a force within us, you know. You could call it part of our psychology, that part that's trying to keep you safe, that is constantly seeing the negative, that's the naysayer, that's the self-doubt that's holding people back from expressing themselves, being vulnerable, doing what they want, reaching for the stars, you know, and if we can learn to identify that voice and counter that voice with belief in ourselves, we're unstoppable.

Speaker 1: 37:57

That's so wild. I just read this thing and I wish I could quote it correctly or cite it. But they did a research study with a group of students and teachers, and so it reminded me, because you said teachers, and so they picked five teachers and then you know, 30 students or whatever it was, and they told the teachers they were handpicked. And then they told the kids they were handpicked and they went throughout the. They were handpicked and they went throughout the school year and whatnot, and they got to the end and their test scores were like off the charts. They were amazing because they told them that they were, you know, special and that they were better and whatever. And then come to find out it was like the worst five teachers and then the students they picked at random, they were all over the board, so they just put them in a classroom, but to start the year they had the belief because they were like oh, you're special, you're gifted, I don't know what exactly was said.

Speaker 2: 38:43

But they said they were.

Speaker 1: 38:45

I was like that's wild. It was not the best teachers and it was a random, you know, series of students, so that was pretty wild. Some really good test scores. I'm curious. You know, you've lived, you know your life. So I'm curious for belief. What did that look like when you were younger and what does that look like now? And what have you kind of learned between younger and now?

Speaker 2: 39:09

In terms of learning how to believe in myself.

Speaker 1: 39:13

Yeah, yeah, or just belief in general.

Speaker 2: 39:18

So I think that as a kid I had like really big dreams and visions and over time, as I learned to internalize these labels and limits, I stopped having those visions. It just didn't. They didn't come up as much anymore. They didn't come up as much anymore. And I think that over time, as I've reconnected with the importance of why I want what I want and also just forgiving myself and stop blaming myself for all of these things that have happened in this mental health space and forgiving myself in general, I've been able to move past it and dream big again and you know it's huge. I think the power of self-forgiveness is immense. I know that doing the really deep work on myself, I learned how I was literally holding myself back through my own.

Speaker 1: 40:13

It's kind of the opposite. Right, you said like the belief. If you know that you can, you can do it. And it's almost, it seems, like the belief. If you know that you can, you can do it. And it's almost it seems like the opposite. You were labeled and so internally you're like I can't do it. So it's like it's belief, I guess, but in the wrong direction.

Speaker 2: 40:29

Exactly, it's internalized, these like limits that were placed upon me, like the doctor that told me I was disabled, or the doctor that told me, oh, every time you are manic or depressed, your brain shrinks by 1%. I mean, that's total garbage. He had a Harvard diploma so I believed him for a couple of years and it's rough, you know, I think for someone who's been diagnosed, if they have like a moment of dysregulation, which is normal, or a mood, which is normal, and then they attribute that to the diagnosis, it really compounds the situation. I think it can make it so much worse. Diagnosis it really compounds the situation. I think it can make it so much worse. So, yeah, we have to be honest with ourselves about what we believe and be willing to really face that and shift things around, because we can. You know it's hard and I know it can be hard to believe. I didn't believe it for a long time, but today I do.

Speaker 1: 41:16

Yeah, it's interesting. It reminds me of one of my favorite books of all time, fierce conversations by Susan Scott, and she says we're having conversations all the time and sometimes they involve other people, and she's talking about the inner monologue. Like you are always in your head, always saying something, and every once in a while there's someone else in the room actually talking to you, but you're talking to yourself all day I love that.

Speaker 2: 41:40

I think I I really really feel that way as well, yeah absolutely so.

Speaker 1: 41:46

We talked about a lot of goodness went through your three pillars. We're going to try to bring it all together now. If someone is listening, is stuck in the thick of it, feeling like there's no way out. What's something you want them to hear right now?

Speaker 2: 42:07

I want you to know that, as hard as it might be for you to breathe right now or to think two inches in front of your face, that there is hope, that you are going to find help, that there are practical things, you can do. That, even though you might believe that your life is going to go a certain way, and it may be so dark for you right now, things can change in a blink, and things can also change over time and with patience, and there is so much more waiting for you. So please be patient with yourself. Please get the information that you need, reach out for help wherever you possibly can, because you deserve it and you are going to heal.

Speaker 1: 42:52

Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for being on here and sharing your heart today. Before we wrap working, listeners connect with you and learn a little bit more about your work and message.

Speaker 2: 43:04

Yeah, so I'm really on most of the socials. I'm on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn and all of that information, all the links are on my website. You can go to mentalhealthreclaimedcom or ozzyjankoviccom and find it all there.

Speaker 1: 43:21

Perfect Well to all you listening. Thank you for tuning in. If this episode touched you, please leave a review, share it with a friend or tag us on social media. I love you all, see ya, thank you you.