MindForce: Mental Fitness, Leadership & Life Stories

How journaling, compassion, and honest words helped Anhtuan move from suicidal ideation to creative life and community

• Nathaniel Scheer

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome back, everyone. I'm Nate Shear, and this is Mind Force, the podcast that's sponsored by the Three L's Love, Life, and Learning. One Sheerious Conversation at a Time. Today we'll be diving into a deep conversation about mental health, the power of writing, and the importance of kindness, not just to others, but also to ourselves. Today we'll be exploring the therapeutic role writing can play in mental health, how kindness and compassion helps us heal both inwardly and outwardly, and how words, whether spoken, written, or shared, can shape our journey of growth and recovery. We'll start with the guest introduction. I'd love to hear your story in your own words. Who are you? What moves you, and what brought you to this conversation today? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So first, Nate, let me thank you for just like having me on, right? So I think I think it's one of these like super important things that as a society we don't do as much. And that's just like have real conversations without any sort of like judgment. It doesn't happen enough. And then it's you have a platform for that. It's just so cool. So thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

So a little bit about myself, Antoine. I I grew up in tech, right? I've been in tech for the longest time. And I'll go ahead and share this now, just to kind of like I have been suicidal or I was suicidal from the age of 122, which is January of 2023, basically, right? I thought about it so early on in life that I just I didn't know that it wasn't something that everyone didn't live with every day. And there's a couple of times there where I almost did it, and luckily circumstances kind of found their way through my life to stop or to get past some of those hard points. But I didn't really kind of work through it until January of 23 when everything was kind of lined up and I I knew what I was gonna do. Kids, right? And I couldn't do it. It was like the one thing holding me back from like going through with it. And it was for the first time in my life I kind of like figured out through a bunch of circumstances that I actually do need to work on my there's something going on that I need to work. And so in about 10 weeks, I did 400 hours of like therapy and mental health work. It was like almost like a full-time job. And as I went through it and started coming out of it, writing kind of spilled out. And I'd never done any creative writing before. But the first thing that kind of came was a screenplay. I saw these scenes, right? And it was a screenplay about my parents' life, and I just wrote it and it was horrible. It was bad, but I knew it was a good story. And in and of itself, like just kind of like what we talked about, it was just as much therapy for me as it was the art of creating the writing, right? It was it forced me to wear their shoes and kind of like where they came from and um accompanied by a million emotions. But then it didn't stop. So I kept having other things come. And I really do say come because it's not like I actively thought of new stories. Uh, but since then, there's there's three more screenplays that are done and complete. All are placing well in competitions. And um, there are 13 more outlined on my phone. Uh, but now I'm just trying to figure out like how to traverse this completely new industry uh and figure out how to make these. Who knows how long that will take, but but it's cool and I'm having a blast like just learning about something completely new. That's awesome. And uh just out of curiosity, where are you calling from? Uh Maplewood, New Jersey. So it's it's really a suburb of New York City.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, okay. So from New York. Yeah, I love the idea of being able to share that. I know it's come up on the show quite a few times. I've had people reach out, or even I've reached out to people that seem like they have good stories or people that I know. And they're like, I don't know if my story is important enough. I don't know if I could say the right things. I'm like, just come on and you know, we could record. And if you totally hate it afterwards, we could scrap it. But I think like, you know, to your point, there's something super therapeutic and you don't know how you're gonna feel afterwards. So I think coming on and trying to push through some of these difficult things. So I lost my dad uh, you know, a number of years ago now, and I had my mom on the show. So she's actually an episode on grief and how you move through grief. And I hope that a little part of that was able to help that. It was years afterwards, so she was in a better place and things like that. But just being able to talk through some of those things where it's, you know, it doesn't just completely go away. You know, time makes it better, but it doesn't heal it completely. And, you know, some of those things where I feel like there's certain things we talk about where it's like, oh yeah, you know, if you just wait long enough, you'll feel better. It's like, you feel better, but like you still have things that come up and obviously you don't want to forget the person. So there's a lot of different therapeutic ways to go about it. So it's awesome you're writing, which leads into the warm-up question. What's the last book you read that really made an impact on you?

SPEAKER_01:

Man, so that one was so hard to like think about because I read so much. And and what's super cool is I read a lot of unpublished work right now. So because I'm writing these screenplays, um, I'm trying to get them better. I had to learn the craft. The first piece of feedback I got from a real working screenwriter was this is literally the worst screenplay I've ever read. And you will never get accepted to a competition. And for the first time in my life, I asked him why. Like I would have just like threw it all away in the past, but it was like the first time I asked why. And the guy was super helpful. He just wasn't so tactful. He's like, he rewrote a scene for me. He like told me exactly like what I was doing. It was a weird cross between a novel and a screenplay. He's like, You can't do that, you can't waste that amount of time. You gotta get a um and so he was super helpful. And now that screenplay is that that's one of my parents, it's placed in like 30 screenplay competitions. So that like that's super cool. But I I totally so I exchanged these with other writers, and some of the best things that I've read are unpublished, and I haven't even asked them for permission. So so I'll go all the way back, and I I'm pretty sure. So one of the books that I read, uh actually it's in my book, uh, I reference is The Power of Letting Go by John Perkins. It he does this, it's a super cool way of like describing what he went through and then giving me the tools as the reader of like how he did it, like actual steps. Mine doesn't go through that, I just kind of give you, but he gave like actual steps. And he has another book coming out that I like help proofread, and that's that's another, it's like very good in that like method and using different stories and different like you know, coincidences and things that just kind of like talk through uh so so John's book is probably the one I would say here. But it was a that was a hard question because I definitely wanted to say some of the unpublished stuff. Um I I you know I didn't have time to go say, hey, are you guys like are you even close?

SPEAKER_00:

Are you ready? I think that's an important thing though, that you have the actionable steps. That's why in the show I try to, you know, ask people for things that they're doing and things they're working on. Because I feel like a lot of the leadership books, I feel like that's where I kind of gravitate, maybe because I'm in a leadership role, but I gravitate towards them and it's like hypotheticals and things like that. I'm like, yeah, yeah, but like how? How do you do that thing? Like it sounds great, but I need you to actually show me how to do that. So the actionable things is awesome. So that book sounds great. I'm gonna have to check that one up. Our next section is let's flip the mic. Before we go into your story, I'd love to flip the mic for a second. What's a question you've had for me? You know, curious, like what, why did you start the podcast? Yeah, yeah. So I actually uh lost my grandma to mental health uh about the seventh, eighth grade. And uh I always wanted to like write a book and do some stuff. And it dawned on me later on. I think I was in my mom's uh garage trying to do some cleanup or whatnot after one of our moves, and she had uh report cards because she's a hoarder, so she likes to keep stuff for way too long. And in all my report cards, it said, Nate is a joy to have in class, but talks way too much. And I was like, maybe I should use this skill for good. Um, it always kind of cracked me up because my teachers would move me to different places in the classroom, thinking if I put her next to a girl or this guy or, you know, over there, it'll solve it. It doesn't matter who you put me next to. I will talk to everyone. I'm curious about everything. I will ask them a bunch of questions. And so it kind of dawned on me like maybe I should just put this to good use. I'll skip writing a book because I don't know if my writing skills are good enough, but at least I can talk through some stuff with people. But really, uh, you know, like we had talked about before, trying to have those deep conversations. I think that's the one thing that's really missing out. We want, you know, the perfect pictures on Instagram and life is great. And, you know, we love to post the highlights of the family vacations, but it should be okay to discuss things we're having difficulties with. So I love having, you know, you know, the more deep and serious conversations. I've had multiple ones on, you know, suicide and things like that. And, you know, don't shy away because we need to figure out, like, you know, what the turning point was, how you got there, the success now. And I think that's what helps people get out of things. I don't know the solution for mental health as a whole, but I think the one thing that really helps is seeing someone else in that similar situation. Connection. We're built to be social creatures and connect. And I think that's where we get to our darkest moment. I'm the only one. I'm spiraling, I'm isolated, I'm in my house, I'm by myself. Hey, there's other people, eight billion people, someone's been through something. So hopefully help a few people along the way. All the time and effort of editing and things like that is all worth it if we save, you know, one person from making a permanent decision. So that's that's the point of the show. And uh, we'll move on into your three main pillars. So your first pillar is mental health and writing. So let's uh lay the foundation. How has writing helped you process and navigate your mental health journey?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, so it wasn't an active thing for me, much like it almost sounds like you landed on circumstance to figure out like talking, right? So I the genesis for me is I I went through a divorce in January of 2023. And that like pushed me over the edge. And through, you know, different circumstances, I figured out that there was there was something not wrong with me, but the way that I grew up, right? And so I sought help and I joined or I worked with a mental health professional who is for men going through divorce, which you don't hear about very often. And I joined a support group specifically for men going through divorce. And through this work and through all this stuff, my mental health professional is like, you know, you it's it's about you. Like figure out, you know, you, like what makes you happy, do all this stuff. And it's not about the idea, but you know, you know, like the the driving force, the center of it is you. So I did and I joined this the support group. And the support group guys, one of the first things they said was, just start journaling. And I was like, so I can just like re like rehash the annoyances of the day down on paper. But I mean, these guys, these are hundreds of guys around the world who have like worked with this mental health professional and they seem to have happy lives, right? And so I started. And and all it was was essentially just that, just writing down whatever thought came, how I felt about a situation that happened that day. And what I found for me, and this is just for me, is that when I did that, it helped make it a little bit more objective than subjective. Like just saying, hey, you know, it's down, yes, that's happened. That's how I felt, but it helped me kind of readjust and potentially say, well, I didn't have to feel that way, you know, you know, and kind of like tie things together. And so that's kind of where it started. And that is that's my core. I still journal most days. It's not every day. But then it got me into this like putting a lot of highly emotional things down on paper, out of my mind, out of my body, into something else, which lends itself very well to screenplay writing, right? It's not exactly my situation, but I've got all of these feelings that I can then assign to a scenario in the world and put that down on paper. And so for me, that's it's like a it's like a placement. It is like, okay, I feel this, I'm gonna recognize it, I'm gonna pull it, I'm gonna put it down, and then I can put it behind me. And that just is how it works for me. And so that's what what I do. And I think it's it's different for everybody. To your point, eight billion people, there are different things like painting, art. I am a tech guy. I'm like some people, their art is coding, right? Like it is something that you put it into that I think is just some sort of outlet that you've got to find that is different than you know, the monotony or the annoyance of the day.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I'm curious, like writing has come up on, or journaling, I should say, has come up on the show multiple times. And one thing I'm always super curious about is if you go on Amazon, you're gonna find a whole bunch of different journals and things like that. And, you know, some people say write the five things of gratitude a day. Like for people out there right now, going back to what we were talking about earlier, actionable tips. If someone is not writing right now, what is the best way to start writing?

SPEAKER_01:

Honestly, it's really just to get a piece of paper and a pen and then sit in front of it. And you may not write, you may doodle, you may do scratches, whatever it is. Like if if your goal is to just, if that is your method that you want to try and do, it is just to sit there. And and I started journaling. Journaling is just for me, I thought. Right. And and I think that kind of helps a lot of people too, is when you say, look, it doesn't matter what shows up on this page. It's just for me. I'm doing it just for me. So I'm just gonna do whatever works for me. I don't have to show it to anybody, right? And so you just it and whether it's a gratitude journal or a recounting of the day or a bunch of random words that don't make any sense, it doesn't matter. You just start putting stuff down and then it'll kind of go where you need it to go. Is it's what I believe. And so that's what I would suggest. Don't I I I think a lot of it actually stems from this like, I I I did a gratitude journal for a while. So don't like, but people say you should do a gratitude journal. It doesn't work for everybody. It worked for me for a little bit. I don't need it as much now because I've kind of retrained my brain to try and find stuff to be grateful throughout the day in everything that I do. But I needed it then. And so I did. But sometimes people get caught in this, like, they say I should do X. So in order for me to get better, I have to do X. And that there are 8 billion different minds in this world, right? And everyone, I think that's why the mental health profession is so hard. Is it's a puzzle that these people who have signed up to try and solve for 8 billion people is not an easy task. And of course, there are things that do work over and over, but sometimes those don't work for the next. And that's that's like the bespokeness of this, like trying to figure out for each. And really, you figure out for each for yourself. So you just gotta try. And if it doesn't work, put it aside. So you know what? At least I don't know. I I don't have to do that one. I know that doesn't work for me. I'm gonna go try something else. And it's that like path of going forward and just focusing on getting better a little bit every day. Otherwise, you look at the big thing, it's it's daunting, it's overwhelming.

SPEAKER_00:

It's funny. I had an episode recently on complex problems, and he'd asked me what I thought the most complex problem was, and I said, kids, because they're just wildly different. Like the boy is different than the girl, or the girl, like they're just completely different people, so you can't even apply so comical. You try to apply the stuff from the first one, you're like, oh, this is totally gonna work. And then the second one's like, Well, I don't want any part of that. Like, no.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And you just don't get much feedback, and you know, closed loop every quarter or something. If you get feedback, you can make adjustments. But kids, I mean, you might not get feedback for years or something. So I think that goes to that point of like the eight million or billion different people, they're all completely different. I think that's the hardest part. Like you said, always cracks me up when we talk about medicine. We say practicing medicine. Yeah. Because like you're just trying to improve and make it a little bit better. If you watch an episode of like house or some rare disease from the Amazon that no one's seen in, you know, a hundred years. Oh, it's that thing. So it's bizarre. I was curious, do you have a writing practice that helps you cope with like specifically like very difficult or hard moments? Does it change or do you kind of just the same every day?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't, so I don't have the same every day except for the medium, which is my journal, right? And so if you look at my journal, and the book itself is actually a subset of my journal. So healing the book, I was, you know, talking with a bunch of people, and the reason it's published is just because if 18-year-old me knew that there was people living who weren't suicidal all of the time, then maybe he would have gotten help. So that's why I ended up publishing this, is because it's me living in a very different way. And if he had just known, maybe he would have. But but I don't know. So, anyhow, the medium for me is journaling. But day to day it is very, very, very different. A lot of times it is just a recount, it is a venting of all of the crap that has happened as I'm trying to be the best parent I can be, right? And then other times it is very poetic, like some of the things that come out that I do. It is in my Instagram is now the continuation of the book. So I will pull specific journal entries out as captions on Instagram, or I'm gonna start reading them maybe in the future too. And I pretty them up, right? I don't write like that in my journal. So there are some of those. Other times I have like random storyboards that are pencil drawings of what I want a scene to look like. I don't know how to actually go about it because I'm still trying to figure out that world. But, you know, my last like two entries ago, it's like a series of shots that I drew stick figures and I wrote little notes about here's what I want it to look like. Here's what the lighting should sound like, here's the sound that I want here. And then other times I do doodle, I have sketches. I'll draw like a pencil sketch of a row. So it for me, that is that's what I do every day. Most days, I shouldn't say every day, right? There's still life in the way, and you got kids and dogs and work, and sometimes you're just so exhausted that you just want to plot down and go to bed. But that's what I tend to do. And it's it's freedom in a sense, because you know, I'm not sitting down to write a screenplay, which is very formula, you know, like you have to do this and you have to make the dialogue like this and use this software. Whereas when I sit there with a page that's empty and I have no expectations of anybody else ever seeing it except for when I decide to flip back through it, then it's very freeing for me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it makes sense. I wanted to circle back to something you said earlier. I don't want to rehash the annoyances of the day. So if someone's out there listening and they're like, I don't want to be vulnerable, I don't want to be honest, I don't want to like what advice you have someone like, I don't want to dig into this dark area. It's difficult.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I think for that, so everyone's gotta decide for themselves what they're comfortable with. And I think that is like maybe the biggest hurdle to get over. And that's okay if sometimes you don't want because it is work and it's exhausting sometimes, and sometimes you're just not ready for it. Um and I would say don't like that's okay. Just be okay with that. But I would order to keep your mind open to it in the future, right? And like, you know, I I think the the should aspect kind of goes against at least my belief mechanism. Like you should go back and revisit all these things and blah, blah, blah. Um, which I this this is kind of I haven't really actually thought about this in much detail, but I I I me, even if I feel uncomfortable, like in my own journal writing about a certain thing, then I won't. But I do, I will kind of like keep it as like, you know what, I'm not going to today, but I might tomorrow. And I just I just leave the option open. I feel like for me, it's a lot harder to like hold on to this, like, I don't want to revisit it, I am not gonna revisit. Like, like willpower is a lot harder than just like, I just can't do it today, but maybe I will tomorrow. And if it gets tomorrow and you can't, maybe it's the next day. So that I would just kind of urge an open mind versus a I must or I should do it today. And and I think it's kind of like a pillar of being kind to yourself and grace, giving yourself a little grace too, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it seems like the prescriptive, like the five uh things of gratitude and things like that, is kind of contradicting, right? Like we're talking about a blank page, we're talking about creativity, painting, writing. It's kind of the opposite of one, two, three, stay inside the lines. Kind of, I was just really wondering like what prevents you? I guess just depending on how honest you want to be with yourself. Because back to kids, like I envision, like when I asked my kids, how was today? Fine, nothing, good. Like, do you get to a point where like, oh, today was okay, but like you're not being honest? Like today wasn't really that good. I guess that's kind of do you feel like sometimes you're struggle with being honest with yourself? Or I guess because the page is yourself, it's just you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I I think that's a very natural and human thing for everyone to feel like, right? Because somehow um we've and maybe it is like the abundance of like the forward outward facade, but you kind of internalize that too, in a sense of like, man, if I didn't, if the day wasn't great, and maybe that's more well, I don't know, maybe it's cross-cultural or just humanity. Like if I didn't have the day go as it's I failed in some way. And I don't think we naturally want to look at that and and be like and face that, and somehow by putting it down on paper, it is like a recognition that that has happened, right? I know for sure that's how I was before. And especially when those guys initially started like saying to journal, like that was I think now looking back, that's that's my hesitance of like man, like I couldn't make a marriage work. I couldn't be the dad I wanted to be, right? And I don't want to like put it down so that when I look back at it five years from now, I'm like, man, that that was, you know, shortcoming. And it wasn't until now it is mine. And even if somebody finds it, I wouldn't be like happiest about it. But a lot of it actually does make it to the public now because for me it had kind of shifted to that is that is what actually happened. I tried, you know, it and it's how I felt. And that's what I was that day. And that's okay. Because the next day I tried to get better. That that that's how I was, and that is the truth to the matter. And what I might what I take away now is is what did I learn? What can I learn from that? And that's a good thing. So, like another one of the things is it's like for me, uh, and by the way, gratitude journal, I I needed it for a while. I needed to retrain my brain to start looking at things that I was thankful for. So there's no like again, it's a but um for me, there's a few things that I try to do every day, like mentally, and that is find gratitude in everything, and find the good in everything, which we all know life is life and it throws a lot of things your way. Um and so when things just don't go my way or the way that I anticipate in the day, still try and figure out what is the good. And if the only thing is good is that I have something to learn, it's actually a very good thing. Because learning means progression, it's a very good thing. So that's, you know, kind of a long roundabout way of saying that's like getting over that for me was something I had to get over too. But then that it made me be much more open with what I write my journal, and then eventually what I'm very okay with a lot of times is just sharing online. There is some time in there, right? Sometimes it takes six months before I'm ready to actually make it sound pretty and post it online. Took me a long time to compile and figure out, okay, what am I actually going to put into the book, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's interesting. It's so wild that like when we put it down, we feel like we're admitting or defeat or you know, something like that, when really, I think, like you said, that is a fact that day, but that doesn't mean it has to be the fact the day after and the day after. So that is really interesting. I I've never really thought through all those things. I'm glad we were able to work through that. It reminds me of, I think it's Benjamin Franklin. He used to have a thing where he did, you know, he had all the hours of the day. And at the beginning, it would say, What good shall I do today? And at the end it said, What good did I do today? So he could like reflect back on like whatever he was trying to accomplish that day. But that leads us into our next pillar: kindness and healing. How does kindness fit into your approach to mental health?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So I I said it a few times. My my biggest thing is that like in all of this, and I I keep revisiting this now because I think about this a lot. That's what I do, right? When my kids are with my ex, I'm either writing or I'm just sitting and just kind of like thinking. Right. I turn on some like meditative kind of music and I just kind of think. And it's also kind of like my general message of like why I'm doing what I'm doing. Some people have read the books, so like they're like, Why how do you share so much? And it is because I hope that people can see that I try to be kind to myself and that people can be. And in what it is at the end of the day, that there's like one thing that I do settle on every night. This is, and I don't write this, it's just something I do as I'm falling asleep, is that like however the day went, I'm always like, you did the best you could, right? You did the best you could, and tomorrow is a new day. So not only is it just like you try and do your best every day, and you know it's life, you're not gonna achieve everything that you want every day. And so the act of being kind to myself at the end of the day is just to say, look, you gave it your best shot. And then like this installation of like a future outward look of like, okay, and tomorrow I'm gonna try again. And and maybe I'll get it, maybe I won't. But at the end of the day, I am gonna just say, hey, you did because you got you, you have kids, I have kids, right? And and you have work, I have work, and who knows what the economy is. Like, there's just so many things. And a lot of times people are just trying to figure out how do I get my kids up to go to school and get them out the door because they don't want to go to school. And then like, then go to work, deal with stresses beyond who knows what, whatever job you have. And you still then have to like figure out, oh, hey, my kid is sick now. I gotta go pick them up. And then you gotta get home and you've gotta get the groceries, and you gotta make dinner, and you gotta do these chores. Well, the next thing you know, you're like exhausted and in bed, and you haven't done what you wanted to do for yourself. And, you know, sometimes or I know I used to kick myself for that. Like, I said I was gonna play the piano and I didn't, and I just couldn't, and you know, like, and so it's like, okay, you had it there and you tried, and life didn't have it in the cards for you today, and that's okay. And you can try again tomorrow. And maybe you can and maybe you can't, but it's like this repeated sort of like kindness and grace to yourself at the end of every day, is what I hope. And I think for me personally, is like the key to all of this. Because the mental health is a journey too. You can't like wake up and think that I'm gonna be at peace with everything that goes on because that's a hard thing to do. So I'll try. And if I can't, you know, I'm gonna be kind to myself about it.

SPEAKER_00:

That was one of the reasons I named the show mental fitness. I really loved that word when it came out because it's like ongoing. You know, you go to the gym and you keep going. I feel like mental health feels like it's a building, it's a person, it's negative connotation. So I love the hints at like fitness where it's like an ongoing thing where you're exercising your brain all the time. It's funny too. My wife, just a couple weeks ago, she was, you know, she makes all the kids lunches, gets them off to the bus, does all these things, and she had a time block to go to this pep rally thing, a clapping or something. I guess you like clap in the hallways and the kids come down the hallway and they're excited to see their parents and whatnot. And uh, I guess they switched the time short notice, like just before. She was like already driving on the way over. And so they adjust the time and she ended up missing it. And she does all these things, and you know, she missed this one event and she sat in the car and cried because she's like, he he's not gonna know where I'm at. He's gonna think I skipped it, things like this. And I think it's like a perfect example. Like you just we're all doing so much and uh, you know, grace and things like that, where it's like, you know, she was supposed to be there, she had the time blocked, it got moved. There were so many things that happened, no fault of her own. Uh, but still just we just want to go internal and you know, kind of hit ourselves really hard for for things that we think uh others are impacted by. And I'm sure he was probably bum, but uh, you know, he's gonna run home and hug her on the way when he gets home. So it all it's not too major. So I think that's a good reminder for the grace that we have. I love stories. So I was hoping you could share a story. Could you tell us a moment when you experience kindness yourself in a way that really transformed your perspective or helped your healing?

SPEAKER_01:

Man, that is that's an easy one for me. Um, and and and then it it's not just one instance, it is a group of instances, and that is the support group guys, right? So I I didn't, so again, I joined, I just I started therapy and I joined support group guys for men going through divorce. I still thought during this whole time that everybody thought about killing themselves or, you know, like the suicidal nature all the time. And I would have these one-on-one calls with these guys, and I would be telling them about like the feelings of self-worth of not being enough for somebody else, right? Like in the partnership, or or you know, like and so the that's what I would be sharing. And then without doubt, and almost like in and we do like it, it there's this these kind of like lines and themes I come across of like, you know what, I hear you. I know, I understand. Like that's the thing, but the the cool thing about support groups, they understand because they've been there and they'll they'll say that, and and when you hear that, it is a it's reassuring somehow, not in the sense of like commiserating, and we're gonna live in that. But like this man, it sucks, totally sucks, and it happens, but you're gonna get through it. That's like the thing. You're gonna get through it. If you keep doing this stuff, you're gonna get through it. I'm here to help you get through it. And that like connection, these guys don't have to do that. They didn't have to do that. And it wasn't until on one of the calls, I'm on the calls, and I say, just you know, this is one of the first days I woke up and like I was happy to wake up. I wasn't hoping that I wouldn't wake up. And it was kind of like a silence in the column. What do you mean? Like that's that's a different thing. And then that's when I started to realize, oh my gosh, right? Like you're you guys have helped me out so much in traversing a complex breakdown of a marriage with four kids, right? Like, how do you navigate the logistics and the family around that and your in your worth? And what I didn't realize is when they were talking to me, it was also kind of like healing how I felt about myself, like the real deep-rooted stuff. Um and so they don't even know that they provided that kindness. But these guys, they have their jobs. This is these calls that they decided to do with me because we would message and they'd say, Here's my cell, just call me. And then we would talk and hours at times, like hours upon hours at times, and they didn't have to do that. They just sort of like, here's a guy who was like me 10 years ago when I was going through my divorce, and he just needs someone to talk to, someone to kind of like virtually hold your hand. I don't even know what most of these guys look like. The calls are all like they were WebEx back then there, you know, and and then you there's a group chat, and when somebody wants to well, I'll do and then they'll say, Here's my number, like call. So I don't even know. In fact, the first three guys I spoke to on the call, like from the support group, to this day I have not met in person. To this day, I don't know what they look like. I have not gotten to give these guys a hug. They know more about me than the seven billion people else in the world. Um, and they didn't have to. And it's just like this kindness that I will never be able to repay to those guys. So hopefully I can like repay it to somebody else down the road.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so interesting. Uh, I have a story, and it's funny that it comes up right now because last week I got notified that I get promoted at work. Um, and I thought about the application of the thing I went through to switch from being an enlisted over to being an officer. And uh I was on timelines and I was writing this up on Facebook so I can post it probably on LinkedIn too. But I was all on timeline, things were good. And then, like I mentioned, my dad was uh stick uh six stage four lung cancer. So I had to rush around the world. So at the time I'm stationed in Guam. So I'm a tiny island in the middle of the Pacific, fly all the way back to Portland, race against the clock to try to get there, get there in time to, you know, see him and, you know, have closure before the passing, help my mom with the arrangements. And by the time I get back, I'm completely behind my timelines. And I think my chances of this really thing, this thing I really wanted to do, get into hospital administration, this job I found that was the perfect match for me. I'm like now hosed. I'm not gonna be able to do it. And I had a couple people make some phone calls that I did not know about and kind of grease the skids and got it all taken care of and the stars aligned, and I was super blessed and got picked up. But it just reminds me of like the simple things. Like someone made a call that doesn't require any money. It requires five or 10 minutes, and that literally changed the course of my life. I've been in this career field now eight years. I love it. It gives me like a passion to get up and and help people. I pass out of blood and needle, so I can't work the front side of the house, but I love working on the back side of the house. But it was because someone made a call and someone took me over to public affairs to get my official photo, and there was a couple people that did some smaller things. And that day they could have just been like, I don't really feel like it, and that would have been fine. But they did. Yeah. Just, just, just crazy. It's just be kind. I mean, I think like, you know, when you go to hold the door open for someone and you hesitate, just don't. Just do the small thing. You don't know what it's gonna change. And uh your last pillar is the impact of words. How can words shape our lives in ways that go beyond the pages of a book or blog post?

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I I think it it kind of goes in line with what you just used as a perfect example. And it is it's this speaking the words that someone we need, because it doesn't, it doesn't cost you a single thing. And it and and sometimes actions are bigger, like opening the it doesn't cost you a dime. It doesn't even cost you much of an effort, right? You're you're already walking through the door. What is it like hurt to like hold it open for five more seconds? Not even five seconds, probably kind of like two seconds, right? And so I try to do the same things in my spoken word um to be kind, but then to also I do this thing and my kids think it's nuts, right? Like there are people who are have a much larger platform in this world that because what they have done has helped me out, whether then then they may never know it. And but everyone in this world today lives with some sort of social a lot, I shouldn't say everyone, so many people do. And so I will go through and I will like every so often with someone's like I I will just put a DM knowing that they're never gonna read it, and just to say, hey, I just wanted to let you know, I got to I got to take my younger two daughters to see your concert and to share a moment of my life that like like I always say they know me better and I know them better because we got to do this thing. And it doesn't exist, that thing doesn't exist if you didn't do your concert. Like let's talk about like Gracie Abrams or something, right? Like someone gigantic. I'll just go on and I'll just thank them. Knowing they will never see it. They will never see those words. But again, I still believe that like putting it down and expressing it is enough. And and maybe in some sort of weird stars-aligned universe, maybe they do at some point in time, or maybe it doesn't matter. It's just the expression of it. And and if you do it on both ends, you know, you'll find you get a lot more out of it than the actual action. Like you hold the door open and you turn back, and someone like it brightens their day and they have this smile, which you would never have known if you didn't do it. And that gives to you, right? And like sitting and writing that note, and then you're like, it it is I got to reflect back on the experience, got to relive it again of taking them and doing this and feeling this excitement, even though they never see it or they never, you know, get to receive the gratefulness. So that's what I mean by kind of like through words, easy words. Thank you, you know, like everybody, anywhere, you know, doesn't ever hurt.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's so interesting how powerful words are. Like we'll say it, but I don't know if we ever really realize. So I had a flight when I was a section of people. I try to remove my military terms, not a flight on an aircraft. I had a group of people that was about a hundred, uh, a hundred deep, and we were going through COVID and things like that. And so I'd bring everyone together on Friday and go over the rules so no one get in trouble over the weekend because the rules were changing all the time, and the leading cause of people getting in trouble was the rule changes. So I'd do that, but at first I thought I was a little weird. I think they got used to it. I don't know if they ever did get fully used to it, but I would end that every Friday saying, I I love you. And it's awesome, you know. Later on, you know, had a story from a guy. He had lost his brother, and he said, I at my darkest moment, I at least knew you loved me. And I mean, that was a good like six months beyond when I when I did it. So he could have left and and never told me, and maybe we'll never know. Yeah. But some of those things, like, and I think there's multiple loves, which this is probably way too much for the end of this show. I want the best for you. That's what that is. That's that family love. I think sometimes we think love is only romantic, but no, I want to see you accomplish things you never thought you could, and you know, the best for you, and the good days and the bad days, and that's that type of uh love. So I would end it that way and you know, creep a couple people out, but I'm okay with being a little weird as as long as someone feels a little bit better, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think that creeps out at all. I think it's the perfect way to kind of end it, right? Because maybe that's what's what the meaning of life is, right? Is like love and and the hope that everybody does get what they want. Because it doesn't mean that it's at your expense. Like I think there's a false narrative out there sometimes that in order for you to get what you want, maybe somebody else can't get what they want. But I don't think that's the way the world works. And it is that like love, right? Like I think it is everybody can move towards what they want and have peace with it. And of course, why wouldn't you want that for everybody?

SPEAKER_00:

I think we do better together. I think that's exactly right. I've seen so many things where like if everyone is helping each other, you accomplish more. But for some reason, it does seem like we keep the good stuff close to the chest and we're gonna kind of hide it because it's good, and I'm not gonna share it with you. But like studies and studies have shown like if you rise together, you reach higher than the one person ever could have by themselves. But for some reason, we can't really, I don't know, caveman or something, try to fight over food or something way back when. Well, I want to try to bring it all together. We touched on three amazing pillars and a lot of goodness here. If someone is listening to is struggling to find kindness within themselves or is trying to navigate their own mental health through creativity, what do you want them to know? That there's no right way.

SPEAKER_01:

There's no wrong way. There is just your way and and just try stuff. Just go and try stuff. Don't sit there and go in this spiral that only exists in your head. Go try and change. Just do it. Do something and and know that it might not work. But if it doesn't work, that you know it's something that you don't need to try again and just try something else. That's what I would say.

SPEAKER_00:

Which is kind of the core, right? Like there is no works, really. It just is. I don't know if there is works or doesn't work. It just it's the thing that happened. Mm-hmm. It is. Exactly. It is. Yep. Very philosophical. That's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your insights today. This has been such a meaningful conversation. Before we wrap up, where can listeners connect with you and learn more about your work?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, uh, so right now, the easiest place is on Instagram. You could also get my book on Amazon or on my website at deventree.com. It's Healing by Antoine Doe. And hopefully soon, maybe through a film or a short film. I'm putting together a short film right now. So we'll see how all that comes out.

SPEAKER_00:

Nice. That's awesome. To everyone listening, thank you for tuning in. If today's episode resonated with you, please leave a review, share it with a friend, and tag us on social media. As always, I love you all. See ya.

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Nathaniel P. Scheer

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