If science maps the stars, who set the sky? w/ Sydney Sullivan

We trace a clear line from awe to action—how wonder at creation fuels a faith that serves, how legacy is lived daily, and how excellence looks like worship when it’s grounded in surrender. Sydney Sullivan shares stories from the Air Force, ministry, and family that turn big ideas into simple steps anyone can start today.

• nature and design as entry points to faith
• science and theology as complementary lenses
• asking hard questions and building biblical depth
• suffering, presence, and the power of community
• legacy as daily seed planting for others
• raising strong kids with values and grit
• ruthless prioritization over work‑life clichés
• career, humility and value‑driven promotions
• feedback that empowers, not embarrasses
• rooting the clouds: making vision walk

If today’s episode stirred something in you, please leave a review, share it with a friend, or let us know your favorite takeaway.

https://mindforcepodcast.buzzsprout.com

Chapters

• 1:17 Setting the Mission: Faith, Legacy, Growth
• 2:04 Meet Sidney: Believer, Airman, Father
• 2:54 Nature, Creation, and Awe
• 8:19 Science, Faith, and the Great Divide
• 10:29 Misconceptions and Managing Perception
• 12:13 Host’s Journey: Loss, Peace, Discipleship
• 15:07 Building Men’s Ministry with Legs
• 17:57 Pillar One: God and Theology
• 22:47 Habits, Dominoes, and Daily Drift
• 25:05 Suffering, Hope, and Community Care
• 27:57 Pillar Two: Living Legacy Now
• 32:14 Raising Strong Kids Without Softness
• 35:30 Values, Promotions, and True Success
• 42:12 Pillar Three: Rooting the Clouds
• 46:32 Faith at Work: Boundaries and Boldness
• 49:32 Feedback that Builds People
• 56:52 Excellence and Surrender in Practice
• 1:00:24 Connect with Sidney & Closing Thanks
• 1:02:43 Listener Support: Reviews and Shares

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:50

Welcome back, everyone. I'm Nate Shear, and this is Mind Force, the podcast that helps us navigate one serious conversation at a time. Today we're talking about the intersection of faith, legacy, and growth. What it means to stay grounded in something eternal while pushing towards excellence in every season of life. Today we'll be diving into the role of theology and belief in shaping how we show up in this world, what it means to actively live your legacy, not just leave one behind, and a concept our guest likes to call rooting the clouds, staying grounded while striving upwards in your purpose and calling. So let's start with the guest introduction. I'd love to hear your story in your own words. Who are you? What moves you right now, and what brings you here today?

SPEAKER_01: 1:33

Sure. Hey, so good morning, good evening, wherever you are on the world. Yep, my name is Sidney Sullivan. Nate, thanks for having me on the show. I'm excited about the dialogue that we're gonna have. But first and foremost, right? I'm a believer of God. I feel I'm a firm believer. I'm a child of God in the biblical sense. I'm a husband. I'm a father of three. I'm a United States airman. I'm active duty. I'm a diver. I'm a BJJ practitioner, basketball player, all things athletic. And I just love to explore and learn new things. So I won't go into to where like where I'm from and all those different things. I think uh the audience can get a sense of who I am and what I bring to the table, and hopefully some value that they can take away from our conversation and hopefully some value that I can take away from your questions and our dialogue. But that's basically my introduction in a nutshell, right? So with that, I'll check.

SPEAKER_00: 2:21

Awesome. Thank you for uh coming on the show. Just out of curiosity and to set the scene, I threw in this question where are you calling from?

SPEAKER_01: 2:27

So I am calling from Niceville, Florida or Destin, Florida. Most people may be familiar with. We're here in the panhandle. But as you can see, the beautiful scenery. I'm excited to be here. I got sandals on right now. I'm here at Lions Park. Uh it's one of the beautiful parks that are here uh within the Niceville, Fort Wallon Beach area. Nice and serene. Uh there's normally I'm looking at a couple old people walking right now. So um, yeah, it's just a chill area. It's places where I've shot other videos, but it helps set the tone in terms of my day. And uh I've actually was out here praying earlier this morning.

SPEAKER_00: 3:00

That's awesome. Yeah, there's a a strong connection between uh, you know, the Lord and nature and things like that, which isn't in the script, not in the questions I sent you, but I'm curious. Like, what are your thoughts on the connection between nature and you know, God and things of those nature? I see them strongly connected. It wasn't until I was stationed in Guam, and you know, the stars are brighter in Guam and the sunsets are more colorful than I'd ever seen before. And that was one of the times I felt like more connected than ever before. But I feel like a lot of times we see a weird riff or you know, division between nature and religion. Can you touch on your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01: 3:40

Sure. Uh I think that's a great question. So we can go all the way back to Genesis one. I actually have my Bible here. I won't, I won't read through the Bible. I will sometimes throughout this, possibly depending on the questions. But I have my Bible here. Genesis one, right, talks about all the things that God created. And so uh Aristotle talks about the immovable mover, right? So there had to be something that not uh initiated the the universe into being, something that was immovable, that was outside of time, space, and matter. And so Aristotle talks about that as much as he talks about other philosophies. And so I think that's a good place uh to start, right? And so just as you talked about in Guam, I think we need to experience uh these many millions of miracles that are out there that we kind of overlook. We live in an ecology of disruption, right? So everything is buying for our attention, and sometimes we miss these little tiny miracles that God has instituted before uh the dawn of time. And so to get to your point, right, I visited Colorado Springs for the first time. And when I went up to Seven Sisters Springs or Seven Falls is what it's called, I was just in awe. I felt like the hand of God was on those mountains. I could I never had seen anything like it. And I just felt like that was God's country. And I think sometimes we need to immerse ourselves, get away from all the noise, and I think we can see all the beautiful things that God has created that we see in Genesis 1. And then as he charges mankind to have dominion over that. But um, I'll also allude to there was this time that I was deployed, I can't say where, but I was out in the middle of the ocean with the Navy and the Army, and we're out in the middle of the ocean. And I don't know if you've seen the movie Life of Pi. No, I heard it was really good though. A fascinating movie, you should definitely check it out. But Pi is basically out on the water, and I've had this Life of Pi moment where I was literally out in the middle of the ocean, tens of thousands of feet deep. No one knew where we were, total darkness, but you could see every star in the galaxy virtually. And I felt like I was just in a snow globe of stars, is the best way to explain it. And so we had a flight deck in which we lost launched UAS's off the back of the flight deck to do certain special things. But I was laying on that flight deck, just my back on the flight deck, my my chest to the sky, and I I've never experienced anything like that. And so, yes, I think there is nothing that can explain um our place in the universe, how things were created, uh, the order in which they were created, at the intricacy in which they were created, all the way down to our DNA, but specifically talking to about nature and the code of nature, uh, unless there was a God that was beyond us that could create something so phenomenal, so microscopic and so grand at the same time, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00: 6:14

Yeah, I love how you touch on that because I actually saw a video from Frank Turok. Have you ever seen him? I don't know if that's pronounced right.

SPEAKER_01: 6:20

Yes, the apologetic.

SPEAKER_00: 6:21

Yeah, and so one of the things he talked about was I love when people tell stories. I think that's the best way we convey information, you know, back to cavemans and whatnot. I think like you can learn from books and things like that, obviously, but stories are really where you connect. And so he's telling a story, or I guess, you know, an analogy. He said, if you came down, your kids knocked over the cereal box full of alphabet cereal and it spelled out a word, would you initially think like a greater, higher power did that? Or they just happened to fall into a sentence on the table. You would obviously think like something intelligent put those letters in a certain order. You you'd have to. And so he talks about how the exact temperature the earth is at, the angle that it's at, if any of these things were a degree off, the angle was different, we would fry up and not be here. So the amount of exactness, which is probably not a word that goes into that has to be a higher power, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 7:21

And so even in Genesis 1, everything goes back to the garden, but there's an order in which things are created, right? And then even throughout the entire whole uh canonical Bible, throughout the entire 66 books of the Bible, we see this type of exactness. And so we see this attribution to God in terms of um his fixedness, his ability to be very attention to detail to things, and it's not just arbitrary.

SPEAKER_00: 7:45

So back to the question, the initial one, why do you think there is the divide between like nature and religion? Uh or even science and religion, right?

SPEAKER_01: 7:55

Yeah, I'm I'm losing the uh the context in which Einstein uh had a quote in terms about religion without science is lame, and then science without a religion is is so on and so forth. And uh, you could look up the quote, but and that was quoted back to Einstein, right? And so these things come together. And what and through my research, uh, I think it was through the the late 17th century, I think that's where we started seeing this divide between science and religion. But the most notable scientists were believers, right? Galileo, Isaac Newton, uh a gentleman um by uh the name of Taito uh Bradley, or not Brahe, uh who studied the stars and he was pivotal on how we mapped out constellations and things of that nature. And so I don't I know why we have the divide now, right? And I science has become more of a faith than a lane of investigation, as Jordan Peterson alludes to. And so we have to look at what was the basis of what your question is. Like, what was the basis of this thing that was created? Um John Lennox gives a great example that God gave us taxonomy, right? So we see it in Genesis 2 where Adam is walking through the garden and God has created all these wonderful things, and he lets Adam name the animals. God could have said, Hey, this is what this is called, this is what this is called. But one of the basic principles in terms of uh categorization, which is of science, which is a taxonomy, he gave that to us, right? So God is God is not someone that's separated from science, he gave those those things, and I think that it's science is a method of investigation, and so I don't think uh science can necessarily explain all things, but um, especially the more moral questions as we step out of that. But I think it was within the 17th century and then back in 1859, as we started getting into uh Darwinism and things of that nature, I think that those are the things that help kind of separate those lanes, but those things are organically tied together, if that makes sense, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00: 9:47

Yeah. I mean, that's the yeah, exactly the way I see it. We were given, and so that's where I've always kind of been confused. Like the Lord made humans and humans made science, so it would circle back. So I don't know. I don't really see the division that that was given that. But to get back on track, uh, I wanted to ask you a warm-up question. What's a misconception about, you know, something about you that people always kind of see from maybe the outside they don't quite understand, or or something about meeting you that you you'd like to clear up?

SPEAKER_01: 10:17

So nothing necessarily that I would like to clear up, right? I'm big on managing uh perceptions, but not to the point of affirmation from other people. Um, but I understand I I do go the extra mile to understanding how my body language speaks to other people, uh how words do mean things. I had a troop that said that all the time, and I love him for that. Still to this day, I was a staff sergeant uh going on tech, and he would say, Sullivan, words mean things, right? So I'm very uh cautious about how I say things when I say them and the weight of those things. Um so a misconception, right? I can come out very uh stoic and sometimes sometimes that is intentional depending on the room that I'm in, uh, so that I can take in the necessary information. Sometimes people read me as an athletic person, which I am, and so they that's what the box that they put us in, right? We're good at categorizing people as part of our survival mechanism, right? Like where do they fit uh within all the information that I'm processing? And so I'm very cognizant of that. And so I have to go sometimes the extra mile of being more warm sometimes, sharing my opinion up front, or sometimes I use those things to my advantage. So it's not necessarily I don't see these things as disadvantages, but I understand how people pick me up uh initially, especially if they know the things that I'm into and the and the misconceptions that can be guided from that. Um, but I've gone the extra mile to be a reader, to be a life learner, um, and to really step into the gap with people and to form those connections.

SPEAKER_00: 11:37

That's awesome. Yeah, I get like the happy-go-lucky all the time. Like stuff still bothers me, you know, but I don't know. That's just how I've always been. So sometimes that kind of frustrates me sometimes. Like, oh, you're just always happy. I'm like, no, I'm just not gonna let anything get me down. So, but before we get into your three main pillars, I'd like to flip the mic. Before we go deeper, uh, do you have a question for me? I do.

SPEAKER_01: 11:58

And it may be a little much, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. And so, how has I read through some of your description, some of the bio, some of your backdrop? And so, how is some of the loss, maybe the divorce, maybe some of those things maybe ignited your faith or maybe uh shifted your faith in a certain type of way? And then based on where you are right now in the world, how are you gonna use that to possibly ignite some learning and possibly add to discipleship of others?

SPEAKER_00: 12:26

Yeah, awesome. Yeah. So I'm actually trying to set up a men's military Bible study here shortly, uh, trying to aim for a one-one-ish August startup, trying to get through that PCS season. But yeah, I think the uh the loss and whatnot has really lit that fire because I went to church my whole life. I was baptized as a kid, and you know, it was always there. But I think, you know, throughout the moves and, you know, in the military and all these difficulties that I've had, and even the smaller things, like just PCSing and moving and registering the car, and there's just so much stress and things like that. So having, you know, the Lord and having that peace that, you know, is just so powerful and knows no understanding. Um, it really has just been solidified. I think, you know, our last church there in Florida, so First Baptist, uh, First Baptist Church of Mary Esther there really got us back on track because we had been moving a lot and couldn't get rooted in a specific church. But this, you know, here at this location out here in the UK, and then our previous one really been diving deeper and whatnot. My wife got baptized. She was previously Jehovah's Witness. So she had a big long stigma and had, you know, some real challenges with religion and things like that. So had to move through and, you know, move to towards the relationship with the Lord and you know, being there and being able to support. But yeah, I think it's really critical to, you know, be able to have that peace and move through all these difficult things. I've gone through a lot of uh difficult things and still do. I mean, like co-parenting, uh be picking my daughter up uh from the airport here in a couple months for the summer and just living through all these life challenges. And there's really no way to get through it without the Lord and that that peace that we just can't understand. And yeah, and hopefully the Bible study will go good. I think there's a lot of, it feels like uh there's a lot of opportunities for females not to drive sides, but I'd really like to have something for the military men to be strong and not overly misogynistic. Well, I just butchered that word, but um, not like that, but just strong men of faith and things like that. So I really want to try to open that opportunity out. I'm sure it'll be difficult with trying to get people in the same room, you know. I don't know if it's gonna be lunch or whatnot, but that's my uh goal for the future. Do you got any tips?

SPEAKER_01: 14:40

Well, yep, you said a lot during that. The mosquito tried to try to give me, trying to bite my face off. Uh so uh, yep, we started a men's study out in DC. So, right, I'm recently PCS. I said this is week one. So I've I just left that, right? And I actually had a Zoom link. I was I was uh hesitant to to tap into that link because I didn't want to just disrupt the flow, right? And so right now they're in a study of uh 52 Hebrew words every Christian should know. It's an$8 book that's on Amazon, very, very quick read, but uh it was the second iteration of uh giving our faith legs in a sense, right? And so I was super big on for our men of deliberate discipleship. And so that means obviously of others, but of yourself as well. And so we went through the basics of the Bible through this last past year, but then like the next point was okay, the Bible was written in three different languages, right? And so how do we kind of stretch ourselves to understand the cultural keys to unlock some of these biblical truths that are here in the Bible and that actually give us five dollar word hermeneutics, right? Able being able to tie the different sides of the Bible between the New Testament, the Old Testament, and where these things correlate, right? I think there's somewhere crazy, like 360,000 connection points across the Bible, which is uh it's like on bibleinfo.com. There's a big like picture chart that's there, right? Anybody can go look it up. Yes, that that right there, right? And so, um, but given our faith legs, right? How do we exhibit those things? But um a church not beyond his four walls is no church at all, right? And so we had to actually get out in the community as well. So we've done some partnerships with Chick-fil-A and given out to homeless people. Uh, we've worked with homeless camps, we've gone out and prayed with people, right? So we have to exercise that faith where it has to be some fruit behind that discipleship. And so there is, I was reading uh within this discipleship book, it is a Jewish, well, I say Jewish term, it is a Hebrew term called the Va Elohim, which means uh the knowledge of God. And so when it's not just knowing God, right? Knowing of God or just reading the Bible, it's experiencing God, and that's where the knowledge of God comes in. And so, um yeah, so anytime that you guys can go beyond those four walls, I think it's very important to have that intimate setting with the gentleman, whoever comes into that group that you're setting up. But then anytime that you can go behind those four walls and actually exercise your faith, uh, there was uh Pen from Penn and Teller, he talks about he doesn't trust anybody that doesn't proselytize about the things that they believe in. So they say they believe in these things, but then you never do anything about it, right? There's no fruit beyond the things that you're saying. And so uh those things have to be exercised, right? And so I'm excited that you guys are in a place with so much church history over there in England, uh in the UK itself. I think that's gonna be very important to get out and kind of get some uh grassroots behind what's happening, what the buildup is. And I think that helps you cross the bridge. I don't know if that answered your question, but yeah, yeah, that's a lot of good advice.

SPEAKER_00: 17:30

Uh we'll move on to your first pillar, which is God and theology. We're already, you know, 18 minutes in. So some good stuff here. I'm curious, like your foundation. Was there a moment where your understanding of God shift in a major way? Were you always, you know, in a religious household, or you know, how did you get to where you are now?

SPEAKER_01: 17:47

So, yes, I think my mom, she was, I would wake up. Both my parents were military at one point in time. They're both army. Um my father ended up getting out of the army. But um, I say that because my mom picked up a Bible at the age of 18 and she was all in at that moment. And so, as her firstborn child and and her being in the military, she would get up very early as Army folks typically do. Air Force members do not get up at 0400. But but the army does. And so I would wake up with her in the morning. She would get me up very early because she would have to leave the house before I would. Uh, and we've lived in different countries like Belgium, we've lived in different states like California, DC, all these different places. But I would be the one that would have to get up, right? I had to get to school, get myself ready, and go. But she would always be downstairs reading, reading the Bible, and she would always have me in the word. Now, I say that for contextual reasons because I wasn't, as you alluded to earlier in the conversation, I didn't have a necessarily a personal relationship. It was more of an awareness. I had been to various churches. I got to take all these denominations in. I got to just take various things in. And I really had to wrestle with that for a long time. And it really wasn't until I was 25, 26 where I had like my all-in moment. And I say that with all due respect to my friend uh Kevin Hill, who was a pastor and a boom operator within the Air Force. And we happened to bump into each other at the gym. And I had really had asked them a lot of hard questions. And I think when we ask the text hard questions, when we get have some good spiritual mentors and we are able to break those things open on the table, I think it fortifies our faith. So I would challenge everybody who's listening, please ask the hard questions, right? Do the due diligence in seeking those things out, find uh reputable um institutions, right? Just as you were, you talked about the apologists, like seek a diverse set of ideas and and really understand what the biblical truth is or what it is that you're wrestling with. But ask the hard questions because I think that just makes our our faith uh more solid at the end of the day. And so there was so to your question, to get back to your question and a long-winded answer, I think I think I'm always having those aha moments, right? I'm always constantly leaning in, right? Oh, this is what this says, right? I'm I've delving into Hebrew and Greek, right? I've had to study that within my master's program of divinity. And so like I've had I'm always having these aha moments, and the intention drives the impact, which drives the investment. And so my intentionality drives the intimacy that I'm having with God and what I have today. But then you can always go deeper, right? You can always go deeper, you can always go deeper into the ocean, and that allows me to be more anchored within my faith, if any of that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00: 20:21

Yeah, definitely. I just finished on U version fight. It was a plan that was going over Samson, and it was interesting because there were different themes or whatnot, but they all kind of came back to the same thing. He slowly made poor decisions. He didn't just wake up one morning and make a bunch of poor decisions. He did it along the way. And so that was something that was really resonated with me throughout that study was every day you're making the good or the bad decision. Like it's going either way. And I think even James Clear in Atomic Habits talks about it like you get better or you get worse. I think some people think that you can kind of, you know, remain neutral, but James Clear argues, like, no, it's either one or the other. So do you want to get closer to God or farther away? Those are kind of the only two. So praying and having your daily thing. And so I think that's the difficult part for us as humans. I think a lot of times we want big, huge things. Like it's kind of the small things that really matter. I mean, you can do bigger things and get out and help people and things like that, and you definitely should, but I think being core to smaller events are are super important.

SPEAKER_01: 21:23

No, sure. So everybody's heard me talk about the domino, right? And I think you talk about the domino. And uh I'll I'll bring it up for the viewers here anyway, because it's just it's just a core staple. It goes back to that incrementation that James Clear was talking about, right? He talks about the three degrees of separation between LA and light, right? Like if the plane was pointed toward New York and I turned it three degrees, I'll end up in DC, right? That's that slow uh separation. And the same with the domino, right? For who who don't know the story, I'll tell it very quickly. Uh, but I carry around a two-inch domino. Uh, I was traveling through Colombia and I had a mentor of mine say, Oh, Sully, like what is interesting about a domino? And I was like, I don't know, it's a domino. And a lot of Hispanic cultures down there, they play dominoes and they have a way of playing dominoes. They play team dominoes down there. And I was more fascinated in that and how and learning that game. And he said a domino is two inches in size. And I said, Okay, that's not very interesting. And then he said, Well, the interesting part is that it can move something that's 1.5 times its size exponentially. And so a two-inch domino can move, a three-inch domino can move a four and a half inch domino, and so on and so forth. And uh what was cool being in DC, right? The 22nd iteration is it could not that domino can knock over the Washington Monument. The 23rd iteration is the Eiffel Tower. By the time you get to the 27th iteration, you can knock over the biggest building in the world, which is the Burj Khalifa. The Burj Khalifa is so tall, it's twice the size of the Empire State Building, and uh it's so tall that you can watch the sunset at the bottom, you can take it all the way to the top and watch the sunset again. YouTube, fact check me. So it's on there. But here's the here's the point, it's to your point. Like we make those gradual steps and we have exponential outcomes on the end of those gradual steps, right? Good or bad, because it works in the inverse direction as well. And so we all have these pie in the sky goals and we try to understand why we're not moving forward. But sometimes we're habit stacking, back to that James Clear stuff, right? We're habit stacking in the wrong direction, right? We're picking up these little things and we're riding that gradual slope in the wrong direction. And so being very uh fastidious about what we're doing on a daily basis. What are the cues and what are the rewards, what are the responses, what are those things that we're picking up on and like stacking those things over time. And some so sometimes we have to reverse engineer and really look at the landscape of our life and break those things down.

SPEAKER_00: 23:38

Yeah. So you mentioned difficult questions. So I want to try to fire one off, hopefully, not too on the spot. It's kind of not deep, but I gotta know uh your thoughts. So in the world you're living, we have challenges when we become, you know, children of the Lord and things like that, it never says it's gonna get easy, all the problems are gonna go away. So there's a lot of different difficult things we have, and we don't know all the answers and the plan, you know, God has for us. So, in a case where someone, for example, loses, you know, loses a child and they have to hear it's just part of the plan that doesn't comfort them. That doesn't so what advice you have someone that goes through a major tragedy and they don't they don't understand. They they can't wrap their head around why that would happen.

SPEAKER_01: 24:26

What you're talking about is this dilemma that we have uh when you have like personal dilemmas like murders or if someone experiences a loss, like a mother maybe nine months into pregnancy, they lose a child, right? And they they had so many hopes and expectations of those things. And then you have the other side of the dilemma where you have things like hurricanes and earthquakes and whatnot. And so the jury is out, like we don't have all those things, but when it comes to to faith and having a personal relationship with the father, I'd I would argue there is a human condition and human element to those things, right? So I would I wouldn't necessarily always just point to scripture and recite scripture to that person. I do think we need to be with that person in that time of moment, and we have to be very sensitive about what's being said. So I don't think there's no a silver bullet to those things, but I do uh if if your faith is strong or if you do have hope in Christ, I would argue that you would run to Christ in those moments. And they may not make those moments better, but staying with the Bible, staying with community, having mentorship and counsel as the Bible talks about, those things are what's going to help you get to those moments. And so being alone in isolation, we know when you're left to your own devices, you're left to your own devices, right? So whether you're dealing with a tragedy or you're dealing with addiction, it's very easy to spiral out when your times are isolation. And God doesn't want us to live in isolation. Or the Bible wouldn't talk about community. The Bible wouldn't talk about having a counsel of any sort and type. And then we have people with different gifts. So you have people that have counseling gifts, you have people that have therapy gifts, and there's people that have those tools to help us get through those and build through those things in a biblical way and in a um a very psychological way that makes sense to where you can get healthy. And so I don't think there's any silver bullet. I do think that uh the Bible talks about loving God with all your heart, mind, and soul and loving your neighbor as you love yourself. And so if your neighbor is the one that's hurting, the best thing you can do is be for be there for them the way they need you to be there for them, uh, based on the personality type and helping them move forward. And then again, like different situations, different circumstances, ask for different tools. And so, like I said, there's no one silver bullet, right? And so you like you liked about stories. I tell stories. This happens to be a real life scenario, right? Um, and this didn't affect me personally, but it affected a bunch of people. And so when you work in certain environments and you work in the government, you are privileged to certain information before certain effects happen. And so we knew that a certain country was gonna experience a hurricane, like life-changing hurricane. We knew they didn't have the medical resources, we knew they didn't have the infrastructure to rebuild quickly, but I was I happened to be in the room and we knew that they were gonna get hit with something, and then we knew that something like 600 people were gonna die, like on average, right? And I had to sit with that over the weekend. Like there's nothing that we can do about that, right? There's nothing that we can sit, and all I could do was pray about those things. So there are life-changing things and circumstances that happen, right? Sully doesn't have the answers. I always say give those things over to God, right? And work those things out. The the earth is on a trajection course in terms of the new earth and new heaven, and we're on that course. That's outside of that's outside of my realm and authority. But what I can do is is pray and be mindful to number my days and understand how to live those things and maximize the opportunity within the window of those opportunities. And then if my neighbor is hurting, right, just as I love myself and the things I would give myself, what tools can I help facilitate for them or how can I be with them and love on them and show the the love of Christ that Christ would have showed in his day?

SPEAKER_00: 27:50

Love one another. Okay, we'll move on to your next pillar, which is living legacy. What does legacy mean to you, not in the distant future, but right now? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:59

So there's a difference between legend and legacy, right? Legend is the things that I gather for myself or how how my uh image props itself up, and then legacy. Legacy is not just what you leave behind, but what others can do because of you. And so, what my job is, is to be a seed planter, right? So I plant seeds for trees whose shade I will never sit under. And so, how can I set the generational benchmarks in place so that the people that are coming behind me, both professionally and personally, that could be my kids, that could be you, Nate, right? We could be partnered in the Air Force doing whatever we're doing in the Air Force. That could be all my troops, that could be 360 leadership in terms of my bosses, whoever those may be, and what flavor that takes on, depending on the season of life that I'm in. It could be in ministry and how I walk and disciple other folks. And so sometimes how we connect the path going forward is by looking back, right? And so looking at the gaps, maybe that my parents didn't have those opportunities. We we focus so much on the house of our past that we don't focus on building the residence of our future. So we focus on all the things that we didn't have, but then we don't reverse engineer it into building it into our future, and we do that so many times. And so Pastor Mark Batterson, he talks about these are the days that turn into decades. So going back to that domino, going back to that slope, like what are the things that I'm building right now? What are the seeds that I'm putting now? And it I don't necessarily have to get the credit for. And I think that's where the money's at, right? So how can I, and that goes to the eternal living, right? I guess that goes back to my value system, right? I'm living for the kingdom, I'm living towards eternity. And so everything that I'm doing per the gospel, right? I'm building my treasures for where thieves and vermins cannot steal those things, right? So I have a different value system from what the world divides as success. Not everything is physical, some of those things are spiritual, some of those things my kids can stand on, right? The Bible does talk about leaving an inheritance for your kids. It talks about that in Proverbs, right? So I am big on taking care of my family and stuff. And so I have to look at the seeds that I need to plant. And so making the practice practical, right? So what am I doing? I'm studying the Bible with my kids, right? Like, what does it really mean, right? I'm not just, you talked about how your wife was Jehovah's Witness. So Angelica, she she doesn't know that. I'm gonna talk about this, but she she was she was a part of the Mormon faith, right? And so she had to wrestle with that, right? So me and you relate on that. No, you didn't know that about, but like a lot of people don't know that, right? And she's out, she's been leading women's groups, she's been doing the thing, but she had to have a change and a shift in herself. She had to understand uh the truths that were in here, and she had to understand how the doctrines aligned and all these different things. And a lot of us, we struggle with family ties, right? We have generational ties to these things. And so sometimes it's not just like the clear answer of like, well, this means this, this means this. Like there is some like spaghetti that we have to unravel and uncover and some emotional things that we've embedded ourselves with throughout generations, even the one, even with our parents and stuff like that, in terms of how we're living and stuff. So my daughter, like I didn't do BJJ growing up, but I got my daughter doing BJJ, right? And so when she goes and if somebody she has more confidence in how she handles herself, she knows how to respect people and respect people's space. But if somebody was to mess with her, she will arm bar you really quickly, right? But like that wasn't something that we've done. She played soccer growing up. She's playing soccer growing up. I didn't play soccer growing up. That's something she's into. She's done dance and gymnastics. So, like, how can I fuel the gifts that she has? I say all that because I need to fuel the gifts and talents and treasures that they have, right? Even if I'm not connected to it. And that's part of planting the seeds. But how can I break down generational barriers or set the next generational benchmark, right? I'm in my master's program. I plan on presuming my PhD. And it's not just for me, but it opens the doorway of like, hey, you can do this, right? It's not just, I don't need you to do this, right? I don't need you to be a replica of me, but I'm setting the benchmarks that you can stand on so that we're turning the floors, we're turning the ceilings into stepping stones.

SPEAKER_00: 31:45

Yeah, one thing I'm really interested in. So on this note, like we want to provide better lives for our kids, right? That's the whole purpose. Like you, you know, increase things as you go. But I'm curious your thoughts on like balance, because I feel like this is something that's really been challenging, or I guess I'm confused on because we want to make it better, but it feels like at some points, if you make it too good, then they don't work for things as quite as much. How do you balance like providing a better life, but still having strong, you know, strong kids? Yeah, we can be conflicted in our comforts, right?

SPEAKER_01: 32:17

So I think that's what you're alluding to. Right? You don't want to have lazy kids that go out there. You still want them to be driven and going after things. And I think the best thing you do that is model that. But then I guess my flip question would be like, what is better? Like, what is better? Like everybody has like, what is better? What does that mean? What does that mean to Nate? Let's start there.

SPEAKER_00: 32:36

That's a good question. I don't know. I think I want a lot of things for them, and that's like the difficult part. And there's no handbook, and parenting is a very difficult, very complex problem. Every kid is completely different, and what they want to do is completely different. But ultimately, I mean, we want them to be smart and kind and take care of others and things like that. But yeah, it's just so difficult because I feel like me and my mom, I mean, it was just me and her kind of against the world, and we lived in Section 8, and I'd hand me downs, and now like they're getting new clothes all the time. I got like, you know, school clothes once a year and relish those things, and they're just going to the backyard digging dirt and their Nikes, and I'm like, what is going on? So I don't know. I guess there's some balance between that. But I mean, we provide for them, which is awesome. And obviously I want to provide for them, but I think there has to be some level of balance, which I guess it's kind of ever-changing. Maybe it's a goalpost that's just always moving.

SPEAKER_01: 33:25

Yeah, I think that that moves with different, but what is like what do your kids want? Like, that's where the thing that comes uh overtakes, like we sometimes we put the things that we didn't have on our kids, right? Just like you said, I do the same thing, right? I'll go out and buy some$55 Nikes, and then my son would go tear those things up, right? Like he doesn't have the same uh kind of like expectation or respect level for what this thing costs or what it is or what we had. Like when we saw a pair of Jordans and some kid was in, I didn't have Jordans in school, but there was kids that are Jordan and people, but that goes back to our value system, right? And our principles that drive our practices. And so our um our practices are predicated on our posture. And if you show me your posture, I'll show you what you worship. And so I have to look at those things constantly, right? And so when we go back to the value system, right? Like we want excellence. And so what does the excellence mean in the ecosystem? Well, we know what it means in school, right? Okay, so we want you to excel, we'll help you with that. Maybe our parents didn't help us with our schoolwork growing up and stuff like that. But me and my wife, we we lean in on that, right? We want them to be excellent. We don't do it for them, but we allow them to work the problem. We make sure they're on time, right? Our family's big on ruthless prioritization, what's important, why it's important, when it's important. And so I love this quote that talks about high execution and success, where it talks about it's not being a workhorse or just burning the midnight oil like we may do in the Air Force from time to time. It's about ruthless prioritization, planning, and priorities. And so, what are you prioritizing in your life? And I guarantee that's what you've been dedicating your life to. You talked about balance, and I've always hated the term work-life balance, but I I heard a talk, right? I heard a talk by Jim Collins. He did like an impromptu live. And what was so interesting what he talked about, he talked about harmony, but he talked about it within percentages. He talked about how 50% of his time, he broke it down into percentages. And so when he looks at his month, when he looks at his weeks, when I talk about looking at the landscape of your life, right? Let's literally make this practical 50% of his time was spent at work. Uh 10% of his time was spent managing white noise, 20% of his time was dedicated to creativity. And then like the other 30% or 25% or whatever was towards his family. And so when he looked at his work week, right, however it ebbs and flows, like he knows when he falls into those buckets. And so I would challenge all the audience members, right? Like, look at the percentages of where you want to spend your life, and that's where you're making the impact. Just goes back to the three eyes I talked about, right? Intent, what's the intent? Where do you want to spend your time? That that drives the investment by the investment of time, right? We have to be trustees of time with other people and ourselves that and that creates the appropriate friction in our lives. And then we can make the right impacts.

SPEAKER_00: 36:04

Random question. If you remove the testing component of promotions, what would you replace it with?

SPEAKER_01: 36:10

So, well, testing only happens at the going up to E6, right?

SPEAKER_00: 36:15

So for let me say testing slash paperboard, what would you replace it with?

SPEAKER_01: 36:20

So that's a loaded question because I know from working, I know from working on half staff, there are only so many seats at the table. And that's what makes it tricky, right? Congress has only allocated so many seats at the table. And so when I talk to so many, uh to keep it level across the board, when I talk to so many people going up for E7 or E7, E8s and Chiefs out there, and when I was working on the career field management team. And so for those who don't have context, right, career field management team literally is there are 156 AFSCs, at least on the enlisted side, and you are, you have their career field, right? And so I was privileged to work with Chief Cordero and nine other people, and we managed a career field of 30,000 people, both active duty and reserve and guard. And so I say that because I have some context in terms of there's only gonna be so many seats. So whether I remove testing, whether I or I remove boards and replace it with something else, there's still we're still gonna have to find a way to filter down. And I'm not saying how we filter now is the right way, but I'm gonna have to filter down to those allocated seats, right? And so I'm not big on not everybody who gets the shiny pity on the awards actually get the seat. So I will say that with context. It does happen, it's a way of separation, right? People talk about Sai John, they talk about all the functional awards, unit awards, yearly awards, all these different things. But honestly, I like the board format rather than testing. That's just my opinion. Paper board. I don't know physical boardations. And they're like somebody was like, oh, that's easy for you, Sully. Like you've gotten strats in your career, and like you've from you've benefited from those strats. Um, but there are also times that I've been looked over. A lot of people think that I'm like a fast burner by the time that I made it. And there were times that I I definitely went up faster uh than the norm. But there are times that there was like three or four times that I got overlooked, right? And so what I like to tell people is it goes back to this conversation of values. Like you have to understand what you value deep down, and then like what does the institution value? And those things don't always marry up. And so Sully can go to sleep at night because I understand that I'm still moving in the value system that I've created, right? Like I'm big on generational wealth, I'm big on legacy, I'm big on excellence, I'm big on moving these things. And as long as I'm doing those things and I'm refining closer to those values, as long as my practices are getting closer to my principles, that's the progress that I'm looking for. That's what that's where I'm I know I'm money, I know I'm in the sweet spot. There's this Hebrew word that's called anava, and it means humility. But what it means is it means not going, not being too overly confident for what God is giving you and your gifts, talents, and treasures, but not also shrinking back from where God is calling you to be. And so really moving in that sweet spot. And so I think when you're value driven, when we live in our vision and not in our circumstance, then whatever wave tops come over, we're not shifted back and forth. And so back to that promotion question, a lot of people get stuck on like, I'm not getting this, I'm not getting the NCO of the year, the senior NCO of the year, I'm not getting some of these things. And Sully didn't always get these things from year to year, but people understood my values and I had the backing of other people and I was taking care of people. And literally, that's how I got promoted to senior. I got promoted to senior because I was taking care of people, right? The stratification, all these things, they came after. They came as a result of me living through my value system. I didn't go out and do things that I didn't believe in. I'm very big on telling my troops, if you do not believe in the five, six, don't go do the five, six, don't go be in private orcs, right? Like if you don't believe in some of these things, I understand there's a game within the game. Like, so I'm not naive within that. But I also had to sleep at night, and I'll I'm so big in living within my value system because one day the human being will take the uniform off. So um, there'll be one time where I'll be Mr. Sully and nobody's gonna care if I was senior Sully, Chief Sully, Mass Sarner Sully, Captain, whoever. Like nobody's necessarily gonna care, right? They're gonna care about how I'm engaging in the community, they're gonna care about how I'm loving my family. My family's still gonna be there, right? And so that's why it's so important to be value driven and principle driven because those things are gonna go far beyond where you're at in your current circumstance. You have to live in the vision.

SPEAKER_00: 40:24

There's so many people out there that need help, right? I think that perfectly aligns with what you said is like something that you enjoy. Like there's there's definitely something out there that you could do where you are behind it, you know, you enjoy it and you're helping someone. Like there's way too many, you know, walking the dogs or doing something. Like, there's just so many things out there where don't, yeah. I I completely agree. Like, don't force the five-six. Like, if you want to volunteer at the soup kitchen, like that's your thing, perfect. Like, there's so many people and things that need help out there. And, you know, I think there's a lot of money that's being passed around, but time, time is that thing that's just super hard to get. So giving up of your time is super important. I tell you my last pillar. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 41:05

No, no, no. If you looked at if you looked at my stuff, 60% of the things that I do in a year do not make it on my EPR, OPR, my evaluation. 60% of the things that I do won't ever even make it on there. And it's because like I don't find my ultimate purpose there. It is a part of me. The Air Force is a part of me, right? And I understand what the demands are. So be cognizant of your ecosystem, be cognizant of the processes and the people that are in that ecosystem, right? So be smart on those things and how you're measured within that ecosystem. So be very conscious. But at the end of the day, that does not fill my cup.

SPEAKER_00: 41:39

And your last pillar is rooting the clouds. You want to give us a rundown before we jump into some questions.

SPEAKER_01: 41:45

Sure. So, what I mean by rooting the clouds are anchoring the clouds is really this came to fruition when I was working with uh Chief Cordero and Master Sergeant uh Megan Thorland, and we were working on the warrant officer program. So we're in a room with Rand, and they're doing a study, and they were taking all our inputs from different, we had four different AFSCs in the room. We had like maintenance, we had one Bravo Force, he had us, and then there was another community that was in the room that I'm just uh forgetting at this time. But regardless, we're in there with Rand, and they're like, what does the warrant officer look like? And you're mine. And so we did all this storyboarding, we did all these things. And so outside of that, I was at the table and I'm talking, and I'm like, hey, I pitched this idea. I was like, hey, this is what the gates look like, this is what this looks like, this is what I have an idea. And people were kind of kind of like lost. Like they had like stars in their eyes. Like, so I'm pitching this cloud idea. This is what I'm getting at. And like Chief Cordero, being a Chief Cordero, he says the exact same thing in a different way. And everybody's like, that's such an amazing idea. And I was like, and I I slapped the table. It was like the first time in my career I like slapped the table and was like, I just said that 15 minutes ago. Like, what is going on? And so, like, me and him, we went outside and we talked, and I was like, Am I crazy? Like, did that just happen? He's like, Yes, but you didn't leave the breadcrumb, Sully. Like, you didn't connect the cloud all the way back to the ground. You didn't give them a pathway to walk. So, like, while I understood what you said, like they couldn't, like, they you were on level 10 and they were like still on like level one and two. They didn't get it. And so it's not a shot at the people in the room, but like different personality types, right? I tend to live in the clouds. And so, how do we anchor the clouds and make things practical for people to follow the breadcrumbs, right? The Hansel and Gretel, to be able to get to Candyland, to be able to get to where you need them to go, right? Some people think more strategically, some people think more tactically. And it's just really an art on how to be able to connect those. And so we have to anchor those. And so following faith could be be like thinking in the clouds, right? I have to anchor that. We have to, like I said, our worship must walk. Our faith has to have legs, right? And so what we do on a daily basis is the fruit of the things that we believe in. We have to be able to make some of these things tangible. And even especially as you know, working with kids, right? I had to under I had to walk the dog with them and help them connect to the bigger idea because they don't see what we see, right? So his ways are higher than our ways, right? His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. And so he's given us a rubric as far as God within this Bible, right? Basic instructions before leaving Earth. He's given us the Bible. He's given us 66 books of trying to understand him, as well as other people that are here that can help, other seasoned people that can help guide us on along that path, and so on and so forth. But we must anchor the clouds. We can't just live in the clouds. We have to make these things practical so that people can walk them out and so that we can complete each other and moving forward.

SPEAKER_00: 44:36

So being a leader, a frontline supervisor, things like that, how have you balanced being able to, you know, connect and outreach, but without overstepping and driving like EO complaints or different things where people have feel like you've maybe gone too far. Have you had any issues where your faith and you know your military service have had any problems?

SPEAKER_01: 44:56

Uh so I haven't run any contact uh conflicts with faith. Usually actually more people will lean in, right? And so there's there's been times where I've worked late at the Pentagon or somewhere else, and I've I've had an event and like I've gone to the event uh in uniform. I've changed on the way depending on the context. So we need to be mindful of the policies and stuff and the governance and how we represent as far as military members. But uh there's something that I guess my troops can testify. I say the the road to hell was paved with good intentions. So there's sometimes that we speed, right? And so we have to move uh and shout out to to Chief Goose on this one, but we have to move from a place from uh competing to completing, right? And so it's not everything, not everything is intentionally malicious, right? So sometimes we have good intentions and we like speed and we're like, I want to do this, I want to do this, I'm gonna conquer the world, but then like we don't include the right people or the right advocates or the right champions that are gonna be able to create those buffer zones or that are gonna prevent us from uh banging our head against the wall, right? And so there have been times that I've got my hand slapped, right? Everybody knows Sully, they know I got good intentions, right? But they still hold me accountable and I appreciate them for that, right? But they give me the education on the back end, like, hey, maybe we can do this better by doing it this way, right? They're not necessarily a speed bump in my way, but like it's the appropriate checks and balances, like you said, to make sure that everything's on the up and up and that we get the right champions on board. And then you might get what's called the adjacent possible. So, one quick story that I love is the guy that created the elevator, he was at the World's Fair, and and this is in the 1950s, and there's thousands of people there. And uh he's on this two-story platform that's above everybody. And at this time on the planet, no buildings went beyond three floors because everybody had to take the stairs. And so he's on this two-story platform, he's above everybody, and he cuts the rope and the platform drops, and the elevator brake kicks in. And then just like that, like the elevator was created, right? Through the elevator braking system, and then beyond, and then the adjacent possible, and what I'm talking, what I'm getting to is that now buildings and skyscrapers could exist. Taller buildings could exist because you create the elevator, right? But like as it was initially just to go from floor one to floor three, but now we can create bigger buildings, right? So, like, what's in the adjacent possible? And so when we include the right people, when we move from competing to completing, we move to a space that can be very special in getting the adjacent possible, things that we couldn't even imagine existed just because we're able to include the right people at the right times.

SPEAKER_00: 47:25

So I already asked about promotions. Another thing I think we struggle with in the Air Force is feedback. We do an initial, a midterm, and a closeout. Closeouts really just uh, you know, sign in and move on. We don't have a lot of touch points. What do you have for like actionable tips for people out there to bring people together, make that connection, and get people from where they are to where they want to be and accomplish those goals?

SPEAKER_01: 47:45

Yeah, so I actually have a two-parter. Uh I actually like the way you actually phrase this question. So for like a year and a half, I took constant spears. I was an aide-de-camp for a director at a task force. And I took constant spears on a daily basis for a year and a half. And I had to, I really understood what feedback meant. And 90% of that time, I would actually say 95% of that time, the feedback wasn't for me. It was for the people that I needed to empower. Right. And so sometimes when we get feedback, it's so that we can take those tools and not only use them ourselves, but use it to empower other people so that they can go and conquer the world, right? And so it's it's a series, it's a it's a like a low-hanging fruit when it comes to delegation versus abdigation, right? And so, yeah, so I say that because I have a very intimate knowledge of feedback and I've taken some hits and which have strengthened my armor when it comes to feedback and been able to give feedback better. So, what I challenge other people is don't be afraid to receive feedback, take advantage of open door uh policies. And so when I mean by open door, right, understand what the person means by open door, just don't go run to their door, like really pull them aside and say, Hey, do I need to get on your schedule? Do I need to go through somebody before I want to be a trustee of your time, I want to be respectful, but I also want to glean from the knowledge because people don't know what you don't know. So that's another thing. So we make up this like assertion in our mind, and I've been guilty of it of like, oh, they're not mentoring me, they're not doing the things that they need to do, like that they've been charged with. And like, hold slow down, partner. Like, slow down. Like, they don't know the things that you want to know all the time, right? And so I've also had a I've I've I've been to my troops. I had, I had probably had like four, 14 people in the room, one of my work centers, and I said, Hey, I apologize. Like, I have some his historic bias because I don't know what you don't know. And sometimes I come in here and I speak and I just magically think that you guys know what I'm talking about. And so if I come in here and do that, like me just being vulnerable and open with you guys, like help me connect the dots. Please ask the questions and challenge me. Please do that so that we can go forth and step out of here together. And so don't be afraid to fight for feedback. Do that, number one. And then number two is like receive feedback. And so that goes into Nate Jackson, Nate and Nicholas Jackson. They're both chiefs, they're both twins, they're very popular within the Air Force right now, and they have been for a long time. But it's because they know how to connect with people and they know how to rally teams, right? It's not just a popularity context with them, they actually care about people. And so, staff sergeant, tech sergeant, Sully, like execution is a language, understand that. Understand what level that you're executing at, and understand your execution speaks to people and sends signals out to people that you don't even know. But also understand from a competing to completing standpoint, don't be afraid to acknowledge your blind spots. And so I did that with Nathan Jackson. I was a staff sergeant, he was a tech sergeant. I said, Hey, you have this ability to do these things. We're both like getting love from the unit, we're getting the awards, we're out there executed, but like you have people behind you and me, I feel alone. Like I'm very, I'm like working in a vacuum, right? And you see people like that. Like they go get the gold stars, they go do the things. But like when it comes to the interpersonal relationships, when it comes to a real life problem, people aren't running necessarily to the people that get all the gold stars, right? They're running to the people they know they can connect with, they know that they're grounded, they know that they're anchored in something. There's a value system that gravitates, that gravitates them to. So I asked him about those things, and he didn't tell me what to think. He told me how to think. He gave me a prescription, not necessarily a description. He he told me to describe the things that he does. And so I've worked on those things. I've worked on stepping in the gap. I've worked on my body language, I've worked on how I approach people with problem sets. I've worked on all these different things, and I've worked on being more interested than interesting. That's hard for us. We like to be interesting. I'm a human being. I want to stand up on a pedestal, like, look at me. We want those things. And I don't say that necessarily in a malicious way. And that goes into a big thing I love to talk about when it comes to ambition versus aspiration. So then with the word ambition, when we look at its etymology, it's it means to ambulate. What can I get for myself? What are the votes that I can select from other people, right? What are the things I can get for myself? Aspiration comes from uh the Latin like inspire, aspire, to breathe in, to breathe out, expire. And so what I challenge people is like, what are the things that you are breathing into? Who are the human beings that you are breathing into? What are the things that are beyond yourself? What are transcendent? What are those just causes that I mentioned earlier? What are the things that are beyond you that will pull you towards that vision in the sky? Because when we make it in about ourselves, we get very isolated and like nobody else benefits from that. And you, you know, grow healthy interpersonal relations, deepening relationships that will last beyond the military, that will last beyond the uniform. And so we really must, we can have healthy ambition, right? You can consecrate your ambition. There's there are some things that are good to have for ourselves, but it's better to live in that vision and not in the circumstance. It's better to live in that aspiration, the things that we can constantly breathe into, and we may not always see the result, right? I may breathe into Tech Sergeant so-and-so, but they're gonna go off and conquer. I may not see all the fruit and stuff that they do, but I do that because I care about them. I'm more interested than interesting. It's less about Sully and it's more about them. And there's a quote to I believe Harry Truman said it, the president. I wonder how well off we would be if it didn't matter who got the credit. Right. And so I learned that I learned it at the task force when we had every three-letter agency under the sun that was working at that task force, and they all defined success a different way. But they all lived under that organization. So we had to define what it meant to be successful in this organization. Whether you took a chunk of cheese from that and said, hey, this is mine, like this is what I feel, like this is what the FBI feels is successful, right? This is what the CBP says is successful, right? We met this quota, but we have to define that because you guys all work within this umbrella. And so we all had to go be pointed towards the tippy top of that pyramid in terms of that vision. And so I say all that going all the way back to feedback, right? You have to be more interested and interesting. Understand that there are things that we can work on. We're not perfect, you're not perfect, right? Shocker. So, like there are things that we can work on, receive that feedback, and then also understand how you can pour into other people that are next to you.

SPEAKER_00: 53:57

Because ultimately, uh the next, you know, the next people are going to be taking over for us and doing other stuff. I think one thing that's super powerful, and I've tried to reflect back, and I don't know who told me, but they had mentioned like you're getting feedback or being provided feedback because the person cares. It's easier to just not. It's easier to just let you do whatever. That's right. It's harder to have conflict and have a little bit of, you know, difficult conversation and things like that. So that's one thing I try to go back to and try to connect it to care because multiple times in in what you were talking about, it was it was caring. And so I think sometimes we see it as, oh, it's bad, they're gonna take it the wrong way. But hopefully at some point they're like, they did it because they cared, because it's it is a lot easier, I think, to let it go. But uh, I want to try to pull it all together solely. Your final question is how can we live with excellence and surrender at the same time? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 54:45

So actually, I there's two things. When it comes to excellence, there's definitely one verse that comes to mind. It's in the book of Colossians, and I'm gonna read it out loud. Oh, here it goes. And so this goes back to my value system. So it's in Colossians 3, it's verse 23. And I want to say I want to say this very uh tactfully, but this is just my value system. So this is where we're gonna go with. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart as working for the Lord and not human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs. And there is no favoritism, right? And so to live with excellence in my mind is is kingdom living, right? How do I, what what are the things that that broke Christ's heart that will break my heart, right? Do the things that break Christ's heart break my heart? Like does does helping the widows, does helping the poor, serving other people, meeting them where they're at, understanding uh the notion between judging people, praying for people? Do I love my neighbor as I love myself? Do I love God with all my heart, mind, and soul, everything that I'm pouring into? It doesn't, it goes back to me. Am I the most interesting thing on the planet or is God the most interesting? Am I living Christ-centered, right? Is he the anchor point or is it is it all me? Am I worshiping self? Am I worshiping the highest aim that I could possibly have? Which in my mind is the creator of the universe of where we started, right? And then the second place of where I would go to answer that question is actually uh Corinthians, First Corinthians six. Here it is. First Corinthians six, nineteen. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own. You were bought at a price. Therefore, honor God with your bodies. And so this in this passage to give context, he's talking about sexual immorality in this context, right? And living living by the flesh. But if we look back in what the Jews viewed as the temple, and we could read about, we talked about order earlier. And so you can go back to 1 Kings and talk and look at like the very specific nature in which God had Solomon build the temple. But this temple sat on Mount Moriah and it looked like it looked like a snow-capped mountain. That's how big this temple was. It stood out beyond all things. And so, what did they do at the temple? They worshiped, they prayed, there was community there, they brought sacrifices there. They did all these things at the temple to glorify God. And so, if we are the living temple that Paul talks about, then we are everything that we do is made to glorify God. Everything is in service to God. And that is that is the service part. That is the humbling part. That is that anava that I was talking about. We are all on that Via de la Rosa. Have you heard of the Via de la Rosa? You know what that is? Yeah, we are all on that. We're all on that carrying our cross, right? That was the route that Christ took with carrying his cross to Galgata, or what we call Calvary, right? If you want to use a fancy word. But right, that was on his way to being crucified. And so if we think about this whole conversation and everything that we talked about, if we are all on our Via de la Rosa, we're all carrying something. We all have a uh freedom of responsibility and the burden and that weight. And so when you're yoked with Christ and we're carrying that, if you look at that route, and I challenge anybody to go look at that route, it's all curvy. It's not a straight shot, it's a curve throughout that entire city and throughout our lives. We're on this journey where people are gonna and things are gonna tempt us, right? That ecology of disruption, everybody's telling us to put that cross down. Stop the suffering, live in complacency, be comfortable. You don't have to do these things, right? Live in your wealth, just be fat and happy and do that things. I don't believe that's why we're here to do, right? I think we're here to serve and work and help other people and lean in and have kingdom living. But like everything is vying for our attention and everything is telling us to put our cross down. Everything, everything on that route, on that route, right? Like he was, he was uh, he was people were hurling insults at him. I'm sure people were yelling at him, right? They even picked up a guy named Simon to help him carry the cross, right? A cross can weigh up to 150 to 300 pounds. That's a heavy thing to carry through the street after you've been whipped, after you have bones broken, all these things that he's like going through the suffering, right? And so there's constant things that we're gonna have to pick up, we're gonna have to carry our cross, whether that be emotionally, physically, and spiritually. And we're gonna we're all headed towards eternity. Now, what which eternity you spend spending is your own personal choice. But we're all headed towards eternity, right? You're either on the narrow road or the broad road. And so things are constantly telling me to put down my cross. And so I have to understand that I'm not my own. All the things that that Christ did and sacrificed on that cross and then resurrected after that, like he's showing me the way. And that's what actually what the way means. When he said I was the truth, the life, and the way, it translated into Greek or in the Hebrew, it means the road. He is the path forward, right? And so on that path, we're constantly, there's gonna be suffering as you talked about. There's gonna be things that we can't explain or that people are gonna, people are gonna do evil in the world, people are gonna do things that are against us, not always people, sometimes it's life circumstances, right? You talked about section eight. That's a hard burden to cross, right? That's a hard, that's a hard burden to carry. And so there are gonna be things that we're carrying and we ain't live with, but all those things are bringing ultimately glory to God. And so I have reassurance in that. I have hope in that, and that's where my faith lies in. And I'm reminded of that faith when I meet other believers like yourself, or when I meet other people that are coming next to me, right? Because it's not just me that's there. It's Christ and it's uh it's a body of believers. We we miss that part. The body like the body comes together. That's the structure that we need. But when we're by ourselves and trying to carry the cross by ourselves, that's when we fail.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:14

Perfect. Well, Sully, thank you for coming out. This has been an incredible conversation. Thank you for sharing your insight and your heart. Before we close, work and listeners connect with you and follow the work you're doing.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:24

Sure. Anyone that wants to follow me, you Go to mtminspiration.com. That's the website. It holds a lot of different things that we do for the ministry, different, all different types of ecosystems and people that we help. Again, it's not just me, but there are other pastors that help me with that ministry as well. You can go to Maximize the Moment on any podcast forum. We're on all forums, right? So if you want to learn more about the Bible or interesting things about the Bible, I'm constantly on there and I bring other pastors and ministers on there as well to be able to talk about these things. So you're not just hearing my voice go on and on and on and drawn on, right? It's good to have cognitive diversity. And then uh if you want to connect with me personally, you can hit me on Facebook, Sydney Sullivan. I should pop up, as well as a Sydney Sullivan official on IG. And then uh the YouTube channel is out there, right? You can just type in maximize the moment. But all these platforms have some motivation and inspiration. Nate, I want to stop and say thank you for having me on the show. But before we get off, I am curious what made you want to bring me on the show.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:23

Well, I had uh, you know, had a few episodes with Josh White and had heard amazing things from you. Um, I think I started following you on Instagram at some point and then saw some of the stuff that you were putting out. I think I'm gravitating more towards, you know, becoming more on the Christian side of the podcast, still trying to figure out what that's gonna look like for the future. But I love being able to, you know, talk about the Lord and and move forward with that. So I was super appreciative you were able to come out.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:48

Well, I know you're across the pond, as Royal Air Force brothers like to say. So I appreciate your time. I appreciate you taking the time and having the dialogue. I hope uh the things that were said are value added to whoever listens, as well as I'm I'm glad that we were able to refine each other through this process. And so again, I want to say thank you from myself and my family for having us on here. And again, I hope it was value added.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:13

Absolutely. Thank you to everyone out there. Thank you for tuning in. If today's episode stirred something in you, please leave a review, share it with a friend, or let us know your favorite takeaway. As always, I love you all. See you next time.