How Intentional Growth, Practical Innovation, And Better Decisions Transform Your Life And Team w/ Robert Rivers

We explore three pillars—growth, innovation, and the decision space—and anchor them in clear actions you can use right away. Stories from service life, parenting, and self-funded learning show how intention, not flash, creates lasting impact.

• defining growth as discovery through discomfort
• building transferable skills from unglamorous projects
• why excellence in your current job unlocks opportunity
• innovation as doing what works better, not shinier
• killing wasteful processes to give time back
• using counsel and sleep to improve big decisions
• practicing intention with weekly planning and accountability
• links to Robert’s socials for ongoing learning

If this episode sparks something in you, share it, leave a review, and connect with us online

https://mindforcepodcast.buzzsprout.com

Chapters

• 0:51 Setting The Three Pillars
• 1:29 Guest Origins And Service Journey
• 2:44 Servant Leadership As A Core Belief
• 4:12 Pinning Rank And Imposter Feelings
• 5:06 Defining Growth Through Discomfort
• 8:15 Bake Sales, Talent, And Transferable Skills
• 12:52 Evolve Moments: Fatherhood, Therapy, Health
• 15:14 Coaching Status Quo Toward Purpose
• 18:00 Do Your Job Well First
• 20:32 Habits For Continuous Development
• 22:44 Innovation Fuel: Running And Reading
• 23:20 The Portugal Risk And NATO Lessons
• 26:14 Open Testing And Need To Share
• 27:07 Cutting Through The Innovation Buzzword
• 30:06 Change Fatigue And What To Kill
• 33:04 When Low Tech Beats Shiny Tech
• 35:31 Enter The Decision Space
• 36:53 Counsel, Sleep, And High-Stakes Parenting
• 40:48 The Power Of Intention In Practice
• 43:31 Closing, Links, And Call To Share

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:24

Welcome back to Mind Force. I'm Nate Shear, and this is the show where we explore the mindset, strategy, and lived experiences behind real transformation. Today we'll be unpacking three powerful forces that shape our lives and organizations, how to pursue growth and development with intention, the role of innovation in staying relevant and resilient, and how to navigate the decision space, that mental barrier between stimulus and response, between options and outcomes. Whether you're a leader, a strategist, or someone just looking to level up, this episode is packed with insight. Let's start with your story. Guest introduction. Who are you? What drives you, and what brought you into this line of work?

SPEAKER_00: 1:10

So let's see. Um the the pillars, I think that that help kind of define who I am. Consistent failure, right? Like I think that that's that's a big one, and then we'll we'll dive into it. Uh, father, airman, entrepreneur, innovation enthusiast. I'm wrong a lot. That's that's what I usually go with. So that kind of describes who I am. Line of work-wise, what's what's really interesting is I don't get to tell the story often about my brother-in-law who is who penned actually his command chief rank this past Thursday, and so was out in Phoenix for that. But my brother-in-law is the reason why I'm in the Air Force. And so we we have a very awesome relationship, or at least I think so, where we just talk about a lot of different things, right? Like both fathers, both doing this this airman thing, you know, the struggles that come with all of it. And so, yeah, that that's why I'm here, I guess.

SPEAKER_01: 2:00

Awesome. And just out of curiosity, where are you joining us from?

SPEAKER_00: 2:05

Uh so I'm currently in Massachusetts, uh stationed at Hanscombe. And so here in New England, been up here since August of 22.

SPEAKER_01: 2:14

Awesome. Okay, the warm-up question. What's one quote, idea, or belief that's stuck with you through multiple stages of your life and career?

SPEAKER_00: 2:26

So the quote that I think stays with me is one that I think since I've been a senior senior, and so the idea that of servant leadership. And then so um I'm I'm paraphrasing at this point, but essentially it's the first responsibility of a leader is to define reality. The last responsibility is to say thank you, and then in between that, a leader should be a servant. And that's something that I've modeled kind of my leadership philosophy and have tried to live by um in my role as a leader in various spaces, organizations, and things of that nature, both in and out of the military. Nice. Who's the quote from? Man, you would do that to me, and now I'm trying to think it is Oh my goodness. I I'm gonna have to think about this one. I have it actually sitting in my office at work because I still have my senior airman ALS. That was my ALS quote. So I still have that like placard, and it is it is killing me that I am missing this one right now. I will, we are gonna get that one. It it is from someone. I won't, there's no stealing here. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:24

It's all good. Before we go any further, I'm flipping the mic. What's one question you'd love to ask me?

SPEAKER_00: 3:30

Man, so I I think how does it feel in in your FGO space now that you know Major doing all the things that you've done? How does it feel and if it's different or not?

SPEAKER_01: 3:42

I haven't pinned on yet, just selected. So I don't know quite what it feels like, but definitely looking forward to the opportunities that continue to lead and be the subject matter expert. I think that's one of the big things that, you know, changes between captain and and major. I think you still need to be kind of an expert at captain, but FG at that major level, it's really locked in and there's really no longer any any excuses or anything like that. And people are going to be coming to you in that next tier. So I'm looking forward to it, you know, with the challenge, you know, a little apprehensive and things like that. I think we all struggle with a little bit of imposter syndrome and things like that. You know, some days are easier than others, but I'm excited to hopefully uh if historics line up, be able to pin on in November, which will be an awesome birthday present for me. So looking forward to it. So far, it doesn't uh doesn't feel any different, but yeah, we'll uh have to check back with you maybe next year and then see how how it feels. I mean, I'm excited, it should be a good time. Your first pillar is growth and development. So to lay the foundation, how do you define growth, not just professionally, but personally?

SPEAKER_00: 4:51

Um, I I think it's it's all about discovery, right? And then so you you can grow in kind of that same shell, if you will. And so I think about like, you know, a butterfly has to come out of the cocoon to really be able to spread its wings. And it's so really it starts with the ability to navigate uncomfortable. And and a lot of times you hear get uncomfortable with being uncomfortable like bit get comfortable with being uncomfortable, but I think it really is is evident whether it's personal or professional to expand, right? Like you're gonna have to, when you're growing muscles, like you you break them. Like in any case, growth really is about navigating the uncomfortable. I think that that that's what I would probably define it as.

SPEAKER_01: 5:33

It reminds me uh kind of a crazy story, but I guess it illustrates the point. When I was in my first tech school, my first of three, I guess, I used to work out with uh one of my best friends, Jeffrey Lawson. He lives in Utah now, he's in the guard. I think he's a senior now. But it was crazy because we'd always find people in the gym and we'd ask him, like, oh, what are you working on? You know, he'd always love to soak up information from other people. And so there's one guy, he was like jacked, he's pretty cute. And uh so he's like, Oh, you know, uh, what are your work sets? Or how do you how do you work out? I'll remember this for the rest of my life, I think. It's just funny, some of those details where you just remember for no apparent reason. But this guy looked right at us and said, I go until the muscle rips, then I do one more. We're like, oh, okay, I think you're insane. I'm like 90% sure this guy was on steroids. But the point that you were making, you're like, you have those tears and you have those small things, you let it regrow and then you you you know kind of rip it again. I think he was wildly extreme and I think he needed some mental health problems because he was angry and would pace in front of the mirror and stare at himself. So I think that was a different thing, but to illustrate the point of you know, tearing the muscle fiber and letting it grow is is definitely an important thing. I think it's a good visual. Um, you know, things are not going to be comfortable um going to the meeting you don't want to go to or signing up for the thing that you don't want to do. And I think that gets a bad rap, and it kind of has always bugged me a little bit. Uh so I'm curious your standpoint as being, you know, a senior enlisted leader. Um, we kind of poke fun and joke, like, oh, the person always does the bake sale or whatever. What's your thought on people that get out and and try different things?

SPEAKER_00: 7:18

I think so, especially when we start talking a dear subject of like talent, you know, growing talent, you know, management, all those things. I think a lot of instances come with having to discover what it is that you have, and then now how do I take that talent that you know you didn't even know you had and do mission application, right? Like a lot of times we are trying to start from a mission space and they're like, I need you to do these things. And then so the hey, you're gonna get out and do this like bake sale or you're gonna go to this thing. And then so it can become really annoying for some folks sometimes when like this person is always out and about, right? But I think the responsibility that we have when we talk about growth is I need to have you discover some things, right? And figure out, observe where talents can lie, and then work to apply those back to different mission sets. Because sometimes, right, like the Air Force said that you are going to be this career field or circumstances in life give you this space. But it's really that like discovery exploration space that allows you to know, okay, my talents might be used better in this in this environment or in a different capacity, or maybe even in the same space, but like just differently. Um, and then so it helps to make people comfortable with discovery, with trying to figure out, you know, what it is that they're doing, and then if that works for them, right? Because you have seasons of things where like, I have this talent, I have this skill set, but as I move, you know, whether it's locations, positions, organizations, those those things may need to, I mean, you need to put those things in a back burner to pursue and grab something else, right? Like you can't grab new things if your hand is is closed, holding on to whatever else you have. That transition and making sure that it's intentional for folks, like it works.

SPEAKER_01: 9:10

Yeah, I think it just needs to be marketed better. I remember uh one of my earlier interviews, I interviewed uh Chief Woods, Ronnie Woods, and we had either talked about that. I don't remember if it's on the recording or not. Um, it might have been before we hit record, but I think it brings so many skills that you just don't realize you need and are gonna use. And so that's why I think it's frustrating when he gets the bad rap. Like obviously, you don't want someone out of the work center all the time. And so everything's about balance in life. So I say that with the caveat like the person has to do their work too. But managing a schedule and a poem and like people and where they're going and you know, making up spreadsheets or whatever of what people are doing for certain events. So I think of like the Air Force ball, like, you know, that has nothing to do with my job and it's not gonna help me at all. But holding that meeting, you know, once a week or once a month or whatever, and see where everyone's at, what you know, topics and things that have gotten done since the last time, setting benchmarks, decision points, like if we haven't got there, do we go a different direction? Do we use different types of money? And there's so many things I think that come from these quote unquote bake sales that a lot of people see as a waste of time, but I just don't think they see all the things that come back later, like, oh, I know how to run a schedule, I know how to do these things because I've done it before. And you can apply it, like you said, across the board on different things. But yeah, so I wish I wish it was seen in a better light. And I think maybe because people, you know, maybe are spending too much time out. I don't really know what that balance is, but obviously you got to get your work done. I think it's question. Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00: 10:41

No, no, no. I I I think it it comes with like having um having that shaped too, right? And then so we get the the, in my opinion at least, fortunate space of having these airman leadership qualities that we can map to, right? But before that, it was, you know, stuff that existed in the support structure about like here's the here's the total job, right? And you're absolutely right. Like that those opportunities are are things that I like to call opportunities to fail off Broadway. And so before I get to something that is mission critical, that is vital for whatever it is that we have to do, like I can, I could learn these manager management skills, time management, people management. I can I could exercise those in these private org spaces or in this project or event that's happening before I have to do this on big picture. And so you still go back to some of those things that like as an airman on the Airmen's Council, like, all right, leading peers with running this meeting, making sure that you have stuff out there. Like now I'm working with nonprofits or other organizations where you're having to do some of those same things, right? Like 15 years ago, running through Robert's Rules of Order helps when you're doing things in the civilian sector now, right? Like I just think that having and understanding and making sure that people know these aren't like one and done skills just because you know you may or may not put that on a performance brief. These skills translate into what you talk about marketable, you know, resume type things that are helpful for extended period of time, especially beyond the uniform. So I think those are the things that I try to also help people understand and see and get into those spaces as we like dive into communities for wherever it is that we are, just so that they can see both sides.

SPEAKER_01: 12:23

Yeah, absolutely. Was there a specific moment when you realized you needed to evolve to keep up with the life you wanted?

SPEAKER_00: 12:32

Man, this specific moment is an interesting one. So several moments? Yeah. So I think at points where before I joined the Air Force, like I remember having a conversation. So I used to work at Finish Line, and then I was also a uh sitter in a in a hospital. And so the medical stuff for me came because of that time frame of of being a sitter in a hospital while I was in college. And so the the finish line job, like there was a manager who was hired. He had just finished his bachelor's in business administration from another place. And then I just remember, like, man, he went to school finished as I'm pursuing my degree and like the pay, man, like looking forward to like I don't know if that's it. So I gotta, I gotta figure something else out, right? And I I look at that not necessarily to say that their decision was bad, right? But I think when my when I'm looking at like I gotta evolve if I want to pursue and get to the space that I need to, um, which led me to join the Air Force, right? So that's kind of one piece. I think the birth of my daughter was like a I I gotta do, I gotta do something different so that this life that's relying on me to be there is good to go. And so you take things a little more um, you know, serious when it comes to professional space. Um, I think in in like relationship, right? Like when people are holding, whether it's friendships or um, you know, spouses, things like that, when they're holding the mirror up to you and like, man, you start to not look like what you see, therapy was such a foreign concept growing up, and it wasn't something that was really, really like talked or pushed about, right? Like it was frowned upon. And then so getting over some of those things to get into therapy just to help who you are so that you don't turn into something that you don't want to. So, like defining moments where I would say that like I needed to evolve to get to the life that I wanted. I needed to evolve to like be alive. And it's on like I just had my 40th birthday last Monday, you know, the diet, making sure I do exercising, like, so I think it's just a consistent like evaluation of man, I need to do something different if I want to continue to be on this trajectory or this space that allows me to be in a space where I can do servant leadership, right? Like I think I'm happy there, but the other things around that I have to make sure I'm good to go. Yeah. Longer answer, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 14:46

No, that's perfect. So when you have troops that want to do the 7:30 to 430, and they're like, I'm down to just chill, and you know you've been through these spaces and evolved, and you know, in this topic that we're in right now, this growth, what do you what do you say to the ones that are okay with kind of just doing the status quo?

SPEAKER_00: 15:06

I mean, I I think it it's it's all about the why, right? And so if if if this is a means to an end, do this well and then work on, you know, the the whatever the other side looks like. Um and I tell people it's a waste of time if you're gonna come do this, you know, 7:30 to 430, and then don't do anything else to work on yourself, right? And so whatever those goals are, um, and sometimes it's as simple for people, it's just being a great spouse or a great parent. And and so being present at you know kids' events or supporting, you know, their spouse through um starting a business or any like whatever that important thing is for folks, because for everybody, everybody's not gonna go, you know, a thousand miles an hour in a space or do all of the extra things. Um, but it does get back to not so much about the time, right? Like if you can be very efficient in your 730 to 430 and knock it out, great. And I mean, not just for us, right? Healthcare delivery or putting bombs on target, but also the charges and responsibilities that come with, you know, being an NTO, senior NTO, CGO, FTO, and so on, commander, all of those things. If if that's your um thing and you have that balance that works, then it's great. I just think that without exploring that, it can become easy to just get into kind of this mundane routine and then you don't grow. And then before you know it, 10, 15 years has passed you by. Um, and then, you know, now that there is some some bitterness about status. So try to help people, I guess, first start with like, what is your end game look like? What is it that you're trying to do? Usually you get a I don't know. And then so we kind of walk through that developmental discovery, which requires trust, right? I need to trust that you're gonna do the things that we've talked about. And you need to trust that the things that I am suggesting or advising work. So some of that mutual trust has to be there in order for folks to move from kind of current state to the next.

SPEAKER_01: 17:10

I think you have to do a really good job of the job that you have. Being in a manager role, that's something I've seen kind of time and time again, where I've heard people like, I don't like this job, so I'm not gonna do it that good. But if you give me a different one, I'll do really good. You know, I have people in one flight and they're like, Oh, if I was a nurse, you know, I would do really good. But right now I'm not gonna do that great. One great piece of advice I have, tell a short story. Uh, Chris Borja, amazing mentor, love that guy. I'll probably never see this. But he's an amazing, amazing uh he was a facility manager at the time. Um but he gave me some really great advice. So the quick story is we were at Edwards, Edwards is a test and evaluation base, and you have your test pilots and things come through there. So Chris was a dental troop and he hated dental. He hated being in people's mouths, but he knew that in order to do the things that he wanted to do, he had to do that job the best that he possibly could. So Chuck Yeager, the famous Chuck Yeager, everyone knows the name. He was so good and so proficient at his job at cleaning teeth, even though he hated it and did not want to be in people's mouths at all, he would do that job to the best of his ability. And so Chuck Yeager, when he would come in, he said, Only Chris can touch my teeth. And so Chris got that reputation where no matter what it was, he was going to do it to the best of his ability. And so later on, he was able to become a shirt and a group SEL and all these different positions where he got to do different things that were not typical and outside of dental, but he earned it by doing dental the best that he ever could. And so the one quote I remember from Chris is he said, Why would I hire you for another job if you can't do your current job all that well? So I love that. And so if anyone is listening and they're, you know, I get the question like, how do I set myself apart? I think that's a thing you need to think back on. Like, do the thing that you do really well, you know, even if it's uh for a uh, you know, a medical admin or a logistician, 4A1, where you feel like the task is mundane and you're doing it over and over, like find a way to get a smile, do to the best of your ability so that you can become the sure, the chief, you know, fill in the blank, you know, commission. But when you go up to commission, they're gonna look at letters of reference and things like that. It's like, oh, you're you didn't do your last job all that great. Like, why would I want to hire you here? So I think of Chris all the time and then his quote.

SPEAKER_00: 19:38

Now that's the Borja's good people, man.

SPEAKER_01: 19:42

He does.

SPEAKER_00: 19:43

It's true. It's true. Um, a lot of times you're looking at uh people's ability in a space before like before you're I'm wanting you to do this next thing. And I I believe every job that I've had was a result of the job that I had previously.

SPEAKER_01: 19:57

So that's good stuff. I agree with Mr. Borja. Do your job well and then you'll get the other things. Yes, sir. What's one practical practice or mindset you rely on to stay in a mode of continual development?

SPEAKER_00: 20:14

Like like life is a journey, right? I I think that that like that remains a thing for me. And so the ability or willingness to discover helps you to continue to grow and being open-minded about like where these opportunities are. I might fail, but I'm gonna do it anyway. I think that that that becomes the like fear of failure because things aren't fatal. I mean, we can get into like decision space and all that stuff later, but like I'm not afraid of taking the appropriate amount of risk when it comes to learning and doing something different. And so I think that that mind frame about how you go about certain things, because every new thing that you do, you know, again for the first time, like is going to be some reservation there because like I've never done this. I don't know how this turns out. And so to try to be as prepared as possible, you're not gonna be prepared for every situation and everything that comes up, but your mind can be how you deal with it absolutely can be there. And so just trying to practice that state of like everything is a journey. I'm learning from everything, you know, this failure isn't fatal. I I have to be able to take what I can from this experience, shape that, and then just make sure that I'm showing up better tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01: 21:23

Do you have like a daily action, maybe weekly action that keeps you in that inquisitive mindset?

SPEAKER_00: 21:30

So I try to carve out time for what we would consider play, but like just, you know, in a creative space, uh, you know, innovation-wise, like I'm very creative with how I try to look at or do different things. And then so that's spanned all of the arts, right? From trying to create music to artwork to, you know, just digital pieces of things, uh, business I created. Like it's, it's, it's a, I'm always trying to do something that's in a creative space that kind of keeps me there. But then reading, you know, and and you know this because we we spent a ton of time just kind of going through books and different things. I don't at first people were thinking it was a pandemic, but really it's just we liked to do it. But just, you know, constantly trying to keep things fresh when it comes to what's feeding my my mind.

SPEAKER_01: 22:16

Awesome. Okay, moving on to your second pillar, which is innovation. Where do you find your best ideas? Or maybe how?

SPEAKER_00: 22:26

So usually I would say running. Um, and and so that was like uh an interesting thing. Did a lot of halves, a lot of longer runs, and then so there's a lot of thinking for whatever reason it happens. And so yeah, I'm usually running when like the best ideas are happening.

SPEAKER_01: 22:43

Nice getting that body moving, freeing up the brain. Who do you think is the biggest risk you've taken in the name of innovation? And what was the story?

SPEAKER_00: 22:52

Let's see. I should, I could, I can tell this. I think I can tell this. So last year, so they have a NATO open innovation conference and expo that is on its second year. Last year was the first year. And I'm so it was an exclusive event for folks that wanted to do things and actually be practitioners for innovation. So I've been in an innovation space as a certified innovation coach for probably like almost three years now. But this this conference wasn't funded by the my like unit, Air Force, any of those things, right? So it was in Portugal. Um, and it was in September. There was another event that was taking place, so our senior leader conference for AFMC in Patterson, right? Which was funded, paid for. Before God didn't go to the funded pay for thing to go to a paid thing or that I had to pay for in in Portugal. And so risk, because like first thing that's out here, don't really know much, not really a lot of rules about it. It's not a vacation because I have to wear my uniform. And so it was risky in every way that is like, what am I gonna go do out here? I'm going out here, but like it's NATO, it's not DHA, it's not MHS, it has no real like mission-wise, like what is this thing? Um, and and it wound up being probably my best innovation learning experience thus far in my life, hands down. Because the the idea of not only just kind of what's happening in the NATO space, there was, you know, every every NATO country had a presence of some sort in a space. I'm getting to hear from firsthand innovators about how things are happening, Boots on Ground, and the Ukraine-Russia war and how other things are happening in kind of governmental spaces, how people are turning and changing things in that landscape with the same challenges that we look at now, right? And when you talk about like there's funding challenges, there's manpower challenges, there's geopolitical challenges, and people are still getting after and doing things anyway. But was just really great for like the the innovator side of wanting to move forward. And so from there, it just you know, really, really kept me in a space. There's some things that are that are kind of taking place right now for our innovator alumni, you know, network, um, and being a part of a team that's that's kind of helping moving that needle now with engagement, things like that. Got to do some coaching for joint staff that I thought was really, really cool. But all of that really came off of the heels of taking what I would consider risk to learn and grow as an innovator that I had to fund. Um and and so that that's been kind of a launch pad for some of the other stuff that's happened. So sometimes you you have to uh put your money where your mouth is, I guess.

SPEAKER_01: 25:41

Yeah, that's awesome. What do you think the biggest uh takeaway, what was most surprising that you brought back?

SPEAKER_00: 25:47

Just so the idea of, and this this whole conference I think was was spawned on the idea of need to share. And so when you think about you know collaboration across nations, the biggest thing was getting to see firsthand this kind of open innovator space for nations to come to in in that region of Portugal to test their things. And and so you think about security and all of these things that exist, none of those things were barriers, and so there's this huge, you know, land air sea space that exists for folks to test innovation that is either going to help advance security, prosperity, or defense for their particular nation. So it's really, really cool to see as a not just like idea of possible, but like it's happening.

SPEAKER_01: 26:32

So nice. I got a couple uh questions for you. Maybe uh, you know, the critic or the naysayer. What do you think is the biggest myth? I think a lot of people see the word innovation and it's a buzzword. How what do you say to the buzzword people? Or how do you do you have an elevator speech on what innovation really is?

SPEAKER_00: 26:57

Yeah, elevator. Okay. So I I think the word does get like, because it's it's it's another one of those, right? Like we throw out here, this is innovation. Innovation really is the the mind frame to do something better, right? And I think it starts really with understanding that there is, as we do continuous process improvement, right? Like that's been the thing. The innovation piece is the mind frame to do something better. So whether that's better or faster, better or stronger, like to do something better is the the part that works. And then so as we look at the framework that's that's Jeff DeGraff, who really was the father of pushing, kind of teaching people how to innovate, um, that framework is it it helps people to understand that I don't necessarily have to always be the creator for something, right? And then so like Uber didn't create the car, they just used it in a different way. And so thinking about how to do things better to solve problems that exist and then what type of problems those are are really the space that comes with innovation. So um, if I'm looking to save money, sometimes the innovation is like, I'm I'm not gonna have the TV that's here that shows me HGTV, right? Like I'm not gonna have the Amazon app so that I could just purchase. I'm not gonna have the the DoorDash app, right? Like HelloFresh was like, hey, don't eat out. We'll send you the ingredients and the instructions, and now you can make food. So I just think that like trying to think about things differently a lot of times is what innovation is, and it starts with the mind. The actions that need to follow just depend on whatever problem set.

SPEAKER_01: 28:38

Okay, the next naysayer question is I've heard this, you know, a few different times. So that's why I'm gonna throw it out there. Is the way that our evaluations work, you know, we have to change things, we have to improve things. You can't really remain status quo. And so what do you say to the people that say we just change things to change things?

SPEAKER_00: 29:01

Um, I think I think that that happens, right? I do think that that happens. Um and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sugarcoat that a lot of times like I'm just looking for something to change versus like in that section of the report, right? If you're just looking at improving the unit, um, we always look for the tangible, right? And if there are airman leadership qualities, we talk about changing and doing things better. Like, what is what if that's just reduction of the waste? Like, what if I'm just reducing waste? And you know, airmen's time is a big thing that that matters, right? Like, I don't want to waste airmen's time. And then so what if whatever it is that I'm doing gives airmen time back and it stops wasting time. So it doesn't always necessarily have to be the tangible, like I added this new bell and whistle to this thing. Sometimes it's I took the thing away that we didn't really need instead of just trying to innovate the thing. Sometimes I don't need the thing. And then now airmen have time to do the other things that they need to. And so changing, changing for the sake of changing definitely. Isn't intent, but for me, I think it goes also back to a lot of people felt a lot of ways about course 15 stuff, right? That has some negative connotation in and itself. I was talking with my brother-in-law about this recently, but I think one of the things that has stuck with me that really fits in this space is this whole care model idea about a team. And then so every team having to have a creator, advancer, refiner, and then executor is going to be really, really important. And then sometimes that role isn't to be the innovator of execution, I mean, of the creator of innovation. Sometimes it's the executor of innovation. How we evaluate being highly effective is your ability to know when to change something. So the whole kill method, right? Like when do I keep it? When do I like implement it? How do I, how do I, how do I apply whatever skill set needs to happen so that we do the right thing? I think is the bigger part than just I'm gonna change something for the sake of changing it. In my 60-day evaluation, if I'm taking over something and I see that the team is good, then my goal forward is really just how do I support them, highlight them, right? How do I change maybe how they're viewed? Or how do I change the level in which they are um you know lauded? So sometimes it's it's not as complicated as we try to make it. And it's really just about what am I doing to fit the need and move the needle in some way that is impactful for whoever it is that you're serving. I think look at that as innovative.

SPEAKER_01: 31:33

Sometimes I wish you could just say, I reviewed the thing, it worked, and I'm gonna just leave it. But I just cannot imagine if you put that on your eval, the next level would just lose their mind if you said you left it. But I feel like that should be okay. I reviewed it, I looked through it, I researched it, and it still worked. So I'm gonna leave it because it does work. But yeah, it's interesting how we have to kind of polish things and always make things. Reminds me of a thing from uh Colonel Vandershag, and she came back, I think she was trying to outprocess and she went over to the MPF and she walked up to the kiosk thing, and she tried to do the kiosk and it's not working. And then an airman comes over to her, and another one of these, like I'll always remember, just the weirdest details. But they look right at her and say, ma'am, uh, don't worry about it. It never works. Like, if it never works, then why do we have this thing? Like, to your point, like remove it, clear it off the floor. If you need to do a simple paper sign-in sheet, then just do a paper sign-in sheet. It seems a little cheesy in 2020, whatever it was at the time, 22. Um, but if it works, it works. Like we got this fancy kiosk and it's gotta be plugged in and needs the internet and you know it never really connects and it doesn't push the thing, the notification back to the member in the cubicle farm. It's like, it seems cool, but maybe just the paper sign-in is okay. But again, I I wonder if someone really did put on their email, like, I went back to paper, like, whoa, whoa, you gotta be more innovative. I don't know, maybe just uh cynical.

SPEAKER_00: 33:06

Well, I and and and in okay, those cases, right? Like I tried to, there was innovation because at some point you solved a problem, right? And I think we hold on, because the first thing you get a lot of times is like, oh, I want to innovate. So here's the technology, right? We're just gonna slap technology on a thing when the process might just be easy to like, I'm gonna have to interact with you, I'm gonna have you sign in, and then that works. Either until the technology improves to seamlessly remove that step, or until that's like the entire thing becomes obsolete. And so sometimes the innovation is going back to just grassroots of whatever it is to save time, money, or whatever the case may be. And then sometimes we we just need to own that like whatever cool thing we thought was gonna do the job isn't like being able to knowing when to get off that, like we had this thing, we tried it, it didn't work, we're gonna move on. Knowing when to do that versus um just kind of holding on to it because we paid for it. Um that that I it's so I you know and and I think that the other thing for a lot, especially in in you know military space is like agile, which is another like a lot of things are let the let the let the field test it is how that is looked at, right? Like, oh agile, we're gonna make something, we're gonna shell it, we're gonna let them test it, and they'll tell us what's wrong, and then we'll do this kind of back and forth. Does that model work for us?

SPEAKER_01: 34:39

I don't know, right? I think so if it's at an 80 or 90 percent, not if it's at a 30% or whatever it was. It was a hot mess, but we won't rag on my eval too much. It's it's working now, even though there's now an oak leaf cluster problem in my decks, and no one can submit decorations. So it's always pay time, but uh we learn. We learn that your final pillar is the decision space. So the space between options is often where transformation happens. How do you personally approach big decisions?

SPEAKER_00: 35:12

Well, obviously with counsel, I think that that matters, right? Like something that's big, I want to be able to get perspectives and then so that looks at it from multiple angles. Uh, but that also gives me like things that I might not necessarily think about. And and I try to have counsel be holistic in that way. So not, you know, just like-minded people who I'm looking to potentially agree with me, right? Like I have learned to seek folks that think differently from me and just offer a different perspective and and having that like safe space to where somebody may tell me, especially in this big decision, that like I'm full of crap, or I know what I need to do, or you don't need to do any of those things. And being able to take that and process it from different angles. I think that that the counsel piece is gonna be super, super important. So I try to do that. I always try to sleep on it. I think that, you know, if a decision is is to be made and it's gonna be big and I feel away tonight, if I feel the same way tomorrow, then it makes sense. And so I those those two things are are the things that I think matter to me the most. Sometimes there's data, sometimes there's not. Gut is an is is another thing that I think has helped some decisions I have, some some big decisions I have made that like, man, that I screwed that one up. And then so definitely taking the time to evaluate where what went wrong. But that's that's really it. I think that you know, counsel, the ability to sleep on it, and then evaluating in decisions, you know, where what's driving the when I pull the trigger really helps.

SPEAKER_01: 36:38

Yeah, I think counsel is huge, trying to get those different opinions and you don't know, you know, there's a lot of times you don't even think about certain things until someone brings it up. And so getting all that spitballing, brainstorming, and things like that, and definitely sleeping on it. If it's not like a safety issue, someone's gonna get hurt or something. Um, not much. I mean, you don't want to wait too long, right? Um, but I think at least giving it a night is also super important. I totally agree with that. I would love to hear a story from you because I feel like we learn the most through stories. Could you walk us through a high stakes moment when the way you made the decision mattered more than the outcome itself?

SPEAKER_00: 37:19

Um, you know, kids, kids will be kids. And so my kid had a something that she did that really like was really upset about. And I think I I had to I had to really put myself in her like lens, right? And I had to really come back from like, am I upset because this reflects upon me? Or am I upset because I think that she's better than this decision that she made, right? And I had to step back from the the entire situation and really look at like what is driving how I feel, and then what what am I gonna be able to provide to her that's impactful? So not you know, yelling, cursing, all of all of the things that I wanted to do, but like what will be effective. And so, you know, think about just like you know, discipline when it comes to communicating back after a decision. I think my decision from there, the way I decided how to act, involved all the things that we were just talking about, right? Counsel and you know my parent, um, because my my dad had been gone at this point, my siblings and then folks that I hold near and dear, fathers, because it creates a vulnerable space, not necessarily something that, you know, you want to tell people like, oh, I don't have this whole dad thing together, right? And and I think ultimately my reaction without those things could have severed my relationship with my kid. And that was something that somebody likes, is what you are gonna do worth you severing your relationship with your kid? And like, okay, uh it's a non-negotiable, but you know, I had talked to several people and nobody, nobody brought that up, right? And so I think that that becomes like, you know, the counsel piece, and then what what what is worth whatever action versus like what am I willing to give up if I'm gonna pursue this path? I think was one of those things that like didn't even consider, but it was definitely something that was on the table, just viewing how my my kid viewed not only the situation, but like me, right? And so I think that that that was proof to me about the items I listed as far as making big decisions. So I don't do any without it now. But yeah. So my daughter's my leadership coach, man. I told her I I pay her in all of the things that she gets to do because realistically, like she is she holds no punches, zero. Um, and then so if I'm not doing leadership well with her, then like it is my like the measuring stick. If we are rocking and rolling, then then I think I I I I've accomplished what I need to.

SPEAKER_01: 40:03

There's no handbug, that's for sure. I had uh someone on the show, he asked me what I believe the most complex problem was, and definitely said uh parenthood. It's just I don't I don't know. It's it's uh crazy. Well, today, uh Robert, we talked about a lot of goodness. I'd like to see if we could bring it all together. What's one thing you hope listeners take away from your journey?

SPEAKER_00: 40:28

I think the the intention, like with whatever it is that we're doing, like we have to be intentful um and and come in prepared, right? Like I think that, you know, whether that's in growth and development, whether that's in decision space, whether it's in innovation, um, you have to be intentful and and work to try to be as as prepared as possible, but also as as genuine as possible. Everything that you know we do from the servant leadership space has to be genuine, or you get to to be bitter because you're expecting something in return. And so this feels like the gift that was given to me that I am on the hook to share. And so I I believe that that to be the thing that you're nothing else, be intentful and your intention will help you be more impactful.

SPEAKER_01: 41:11

What exactly does that look like? Because I feel like maybe another buzzword or you know, maybe it's overly used and say, be intentional. Can you actually like explain what that looks like throughout the week or something?

SPEAKER_00: 41:25

Absolutely. So uh, so for instance, Sunday, right? So if you like, hey, I'm not gonna spend money on lunch, Sunday, be intentful uh to meal prep, right? If I want to study something, carve that time out and and hold your yourself to that time. If I want to be a better parent, like you need to be intentful about engaging and planning and protecting that time. Intention is really just I'm going to plan to do these things and I'm gonna hold uh myself in that space. If accountability is hard, uh be intentful about having somebody help, right? Like, hey, uh sir, I need you to ensure that I am out of here by 330 because I want to make sure that I make the gym, right? Um, and have somebody who is gonna do that, who you may get upset with uh because they are doing the things that you told them to do. So I think intention really is about planning and communicating what it is that you are going to do. So then that way um that village is helping you get there.

SPEAKER_01: 42:28

Perfect. Well, Robert, thank you for sharing your insights and your story. This conversation has been full of wisdom. Where can people find and learn a little bit more about you?

SPEAKER_00: 42:38

Man, these socials. So I am at Mr. Rot, so M-R-R-D-O-T on Instagram. I have a business that I am trying to sort and figure out. Rerun these streets. And so we run these streets with the Z.com for things that exist there. I'm on LinkedIn, Robert Rivers6 on LinkedIn. Uh, and I think that is it. Yeah, I think that's it. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 43:03

Thank you for coming out. Uh, to our listeners, if this episode sparks something in you, share it, leave a review, and connect with us online. Until next time, stay intentional, stay open, and keep building your mind force. I love you all. See you.