What Should Christians Be Aiming For in 2026? w/ Sydney Sullivan

What if success isn’t a finish line but a Person you follow? We open the new year by re-centering on a lived faith that’s honest, practical, and anchored in love—not image. Nate shares why the show is expanding from mental health into a fuller spiritual frame, and Sidney Sullivan—Air Force leader, minister, and founder of Maximize the Moment—joins to explore how convictions become daily patterns that quietly preach.

We tackle the awkward: playing Christian music in public, profanity and heart posture, and how to guard your “eye and ear gates” without withdrawing from the world. Sidney offers a simple but demanding vision—be consistent, be genuine, let your speech be seasoned with salt. From tattoos to church preferences, we draw the line between meeting people where they are and refusing to compromise biblical hard lines. Instead of a suffocating rulebook, we sketch a framework for flourishing: God’s economy, created for love, shaped by truth, aimed at joy.

Then we redefine winning. If your 2025 ended without visible trophies, you didn’t fail. We contrast fleeting highs with durable joy, and we unpack a path from intent to intentionality: prayer that starts with gratitude, Scripture that builds understanding, and community that steadies you when life hits back. Expect clear next steps—YouVersion and Bible Recap, RightNow Media for military families, and a simple prayer model to begin each day. Most of all, expect a reminder of who you are: God’s handiwork, created for good works prepared in advance.

Start 2026 with a small, faithful step. Listen, subscribe, and share this conversation with someone who needs hope. After you do, tell us: what’s the one habit you’ll commit to this week?

Chapters

• 1:17 Refocusing The Show’s Mission
• 3:12 Meet Sidney Sullivan And MTM
• 4:47 Holidays, Conviction, And Intent
• 6:45 Sharing Faith Without Preaching
• 10:24 Profanity, Heart Posture, And Speech
• 17:39 Meeting People Without Compromise
• 22:35 Love, Frameworks, And God’s Economy
• 28:32 Defining Wins And Christian Success
• 36:37 Wrestling With Scripture And Practice
• 43:55 Imperfect People, Perfect Pursuit
• 51:02 Joy, Purpose, And Enough
• 58:37 Intent To Intentionality In 2026
• 1:06:17 Tools, Prayer, And Identity In Christ
• 1:11:21 Closing Encouragement And Next Steps

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:50

Welcome everyone. I'm Nate Shear, the host of Mind Force. I haven't been on the mic for a few months. I kind of recorded way too many and got way too ahead of schedule. People were having to wait months to jump on the schedule, it was getting a little out of hand. So I took a break for the end of the year, but now we're coming into 2026 and really wanted to get after something I've been wanting to get after, which is getting a little bit more well-rounded. I started the podcast to honor my grandma that I lost to mental health and really focus on mental health. But as the Air Force, we have four pillars and want to make sure we're, you know, really covering all those. I've had guests on the show that cover physical. We've touched a bunch on mental. I'd really like to transition and start talking about more spiritual and make sure we're well-rounded people. I've had a few guests on. I have my pastors on, so there has been a few spiritual ones, but wanted to close out 2025 on a good note and make sure we're ready to roll into 2026. Throughout the holidays, a lot of people have different emotions. There's a lot of highs, people feel really good. Some people struggle, a lot of difficult things that have happened on different dates, and they associate the holidays with good or bad. So I think there's a lot of things that come with closing out a year, closing out Christmas, rolling into a new year. Really wanting to get after this. I'm by no means an expert, a student of the Bible, and just trying to make sure we're doing what we're supposed to be doing as Christians. I have someone that is pretty well-rounded, pretty awesome. Uh Sullivan here. Uh I'll hand it over to him for a quick introduction before we uh jump into some of the things I want to ask him.

SPEAKER_00: 2:20

Yeah, thanks, Nate. Uh, thanks for moving on your convictions, right? For starting your podcast, your lane, and the breadth of diversity, cognitive diversity that you bring to the podcast world, as well as a lot of friends that we have. And so I think we're just striking a lot of momentum, right? When when the wave, when big waves come, all boats are lifted. And so I think you're part of that big wave. And I think we're we're trying to strive to lift others, uh, both professionally and personally. And so, which leaves me, my name is Sidney Sullivan. I am in the Air Force as well. I'm also a minister and the CEO and founder of Maximize the Moment, the nonprofit, which is just seeking to maximize every moment, right? And so there's a window of opportunity, and so we need to maximize the moments within the windows of opportunity. There's liminal moments and thresholds that we cross over. And then that's really tier two. Tier one is he must become greater, we must become less, right? And so, how can we all the things that we do uh being Christ-centered and glorify God? And so that's what we're gonna talk about today. I'm glad that Nate uh followed through on his conviction, right? Um, I was in some prayer and I felt like reaching out to him. I felt moved to reach out. And so on a whim, uh, we did some minor preparation and in uh for this talk, but we wanted, again, to have Christians to get some wind in their sails going into 2026, or even those who are not believers just maybe dialing into the conversation. What is this about? What are what are Christians should be aiming for, and so on and so forth. So I won't belabor the point. Let's get to the conversation, but I appreciate you, brother, for taking the time, the half step. We're here on Christmas Eve, not Christmas Eve, New Year's Eve. I've already had people and some friends in Asia text me Happy New Year's early this morning. So happy New Year's to all those people that are out there and those who are listening on the other side of the globe. Um, and with that being said, let's get to it.

SPEAKER_01: 4:05

Absolutely. Welcome everyone that's live. Welcome to everyone that will be listening to this as it's recorded. We'll post up some chunks, hopefully some great highlights. Thank you for reaching out and getting after this. I really wanted to make that shift, and so it's good to be able to do that. And I think that brings me to my first thing that I've been struggling with. And so I have a few things. I think I listed three here that I've been struggling with solely. So I'm curious kind of your thoughts. My first one is I'm always kind of nervous and I have a difficulty reaching out and connecting with people, not connecting with people on that like more religious wavelength, because I feel like a lot of times, like, don't preach at me. And so I kind of struggle with that. And even some of the minor things, like it's really interesting. I saw something, I think, even this week, it was like you're always preaching. It just depends on what you're preaching. So when people are listening to songs about drugs and alcohol and partying, like that's preaching. We don't call it that, but you're endorsing it. And so I have a thing I was given by one of my squadron commanders that said, you know, what you allow, you endorse. So you're like, you're getting behind it because you're allowing it to happen. But it's interesting because at the gym, I go in the morning and every once in a while I get given the radio, and I'm always hesitant. Like, I want to put on Christian rock. Like I have a Christian rock playlist. It's one of my favorites. It's got red and pillar and uh a bunch, you know, different POD and whatnot. But I'm always hesitant because I'm like, oh, if I put it on, people will like feel weird about it because it'll say God or say something and feel like they're being preached at. But then I feel like on the opposite side, like I said, if you have one that's full of the N-word and, you know, different things, like also you're endorsing that too. So how do you feel on like crossing the boundary between reaching out to people and like preaching at them? If maybe that's the question.

SPEAKER_00: 5:48

Yeah, it reminds me of uh two verses. I'll leave the second one because I think we're gonna cover it later. But 1 Corinthians 11, one, where Paul talks about follow me as I follow Christ, right? And so to your point, uh Pen from Pen and Teller talks about I I don't believe I don't believe your beliefs if you're not proselytizing about them. Basically, if you never talk about these things, but you say you're about it, then it's kind of hard for people to believe and lean into those things. And so I say that from a very humble, genuine, like organic stance. And so how I move on a daily basis, I want to move based on conviction. All right, I don't want to move in a space where delayed obedience uh moves into disobedience. So the things that you're holding, I'm not saying you're been disobedience by not playing Christian rock. That's not what I'm saying. But if I'm moving in a certain way and I'm my behaviors and patterns reflect the ways of Christ, I'm just not gonna hold that back, right? The the Muslim's not gonna hold back their hijab, like the other people who believe in the atheist is is gonna say they don't believe in God, right? And so people are very open, but it's very funny what you're saying. Like we we can be my wife feels this way sometimes. I know early in my belief, I I felt that way sometimes, right? It feels like you're going against the grain. You're the salmon that's swimming upstream when it comes to Christianity or it comes to believing in Jesus. And that's a really, that's a really real feeling to have. But what I've found is that the more organic and the more true and the more consistent I am with walking in Christ, the more that people are drawn into that light, right? My light's not flickering on and off, right? They there's no inconsistency there. And so whether I'm playing music in my car or I'm listening to a podcast on the or I'm doing something what may seem like I'm showcasing it is something that's part of my normal behavioral pattern. And so I think that's what draws people in is that genuineness that I'm doing it consistently over a period of time, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01: 7:36

Yeah, I think that's really good. We'll probably capture that one in the highlight reel, I think. Because I think that's perfect. Because I think it's so often, like it almost seems cool, if that's the right word, to be like, I'm atheist or I'm agnostic. Like that gets thrown around all the time. No one ever thinks anything about it, and we move on. But it seems like the music screeches to a halt and the room like stares at you sometimes when you say Christian. If we all have different beliefs, it seems like it should be in the same realm, but sometimes it doesn't feel that way, which kind of leads me into my next one, which I'm struggling with this one, not personally, uh, but it's profanity. And I'm I don't know why so hung up on this one specifically. I don't know if it's a military thing. Uh, I have a few friends that go to the same church or different churches, or even examples. Like I was thinking Jelly Roll, right? Jelly Roll is like converted and he's like doing good things, but then I'll watch like videos that catch on TikTok or something, and he's talking about drinking and smoking and dropping F bombs. And then I also saw one from Sean Ryan. He has that podcast, the prior seal, I think he is. He's got a lot of good people on there as well. But then again, he's dropping like F bombs. And so I'm curious your thoughts like if the person's heart is in the right place. I mean, sin is sin, but like what is your thought on like profanity and where you know people are using it or how they're using or using it at all, I guess.

SPEAKER_00: 8:57

Yeah, let what you be well, let what's being said be seasoned with salt, right? And so I say that very specifically in the sense of in this context, more towards the heart posture and the heart change, right? And so if my heart is more moving like Jesus, then I probably won't be using a lot of crude language or things that are gonna be abrasive to the ear, abrasive to the person that I'm talking to. Let the image of God in me greet the image of God in you. And so if you've been made in God's image, then I'm gonna respect that and how I how I use my language and the lexicon and all the things that and how I'm gonna treat you, right? Love your neighbor as you love yourself. And so, and this actually goes to the first question of what you were talking about as well. And I didn't say it, but Jesus is very countercultural, right? Even during his time, there was a bunch of cultures, a bunch of religions, and he tends to flip the paradigm upside down. And so I think our speech tends to be a reflection of our heart posture, right? It's what comes out of the mouth that defiles a person, not what goes in. And so, yes, there have been Christians that use profanity, everybody's on their own journey with Christ and their own relationship, but I guarantee I'm not going to talk my to my wife a certain way because I have intimacy with her. And so I so I think when we have more intimacy with God and we understand and we have that reverence for who he is, and those who have been created in his image, I think that's when our our verbiage is seasoned with salt, right? Because then our heart posture is a different way and we're viewing those people and our God a certain way.

SPEAKER_01: 10:21

So would you like cut those all cut people out that do that at all? Or do you kind of follow them on their journey? Do you wait till they're completely over? Because it kind of leads into the next one, but I'll wait for it. But how do you handle some of that stuff? Like just cut it out completely? Because I think some of the information is is good. I mean, Sean Ryan has some really cool stuff, but like I don't like to, like you said, kind of abrasive to the ears.

SPEAKER_00: 10:47

Are you saying cut it out from my life and totally? Are you talking about cutting off people or cutting off material or what?

SPEAKER_01: 10:52

Yeah, cutting out the stuff that you hear if they are still like on their way on the journey. Maybe their heart has converted. He said he believes and he's completely converted, but he's only, you know, a few months in, so he still is dropping F-bombs along the way. And I'm like, ugh, is you know, the heart is where it's at, right? So that's the important part. So that's where I struggle. Like, does it matter? And how much does it matter if his heart is where it's supposed to be?

SPEAKER_00: 11:16

So one, it's all around us, right? So if we're talking individually versus relationships, so there's got to be a separation there. So what do I partake in? What am I feeling myself in, right? I have I have ear gates, I have eye gates, there's things that I'm taking in. And so am I embracing that pride of life? Am I embracing that lustfulness? Am I embracing that type of language that is not necessarily the behavior patterns that Jesus followed when he walked here on this earth? So that's me individually, but then socially, you got to understand we are in the world, but not of the world, right? And so you have to ask yourself two questions. What am I receiving? And then what am I like what am I receiving from other people? Context plays a major pose in it, but we're gonna walk in around in a culture where people are gonna use profane language all this time. But the language that I listen to um on my on my iPhone, the look the language that I'm listening to when I'm watching movies and stuff like that, right? I have some certain gates. I understand there's gonna be some F-bombs stuff thrown around in certain action movies and stuff like that. I'm not here to condone that, but I would say if your heart posture is in the right place, then you're one of my pastor friends says, Pastor Chris, he always talks about you repent quicker than you than you would before. Right. So when it comes to jelly roll, he understands what he's doing, right? He understands there's a disconnect between his behavior and some of the cultural things that he's coming from, like maybe some of the cultural biases are historically in his life, how he's growing up, the people around him, how he engages. So he has to wrestle with that and he has to take those things to God. And so when you become more and more of a mature Christian, maybe something that took you three weeks to repent, maybe it takes you 30 seconds, right? Three seconds, right? You start building on that. And I think Jelly Roll is building on that. He's working on, hey, maybe I shouldn't have done that. And then maybe as he'll get to a point where he matures where he stops using some of that language, and more of that language is substituted with things that are going to glorify the kingdom, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01: 13:11

Yeah. So one more on that, which maybe it's just beating a dead horse, but he has kind of changed and not to like focus on one specific person, but just an example where I thought it was good, uh, good point to look at. He has kind of converted and like you said, he's on the road, and then he has Eminem come and like sing beside him after he sings with Brandon Lake. And it's just seems like kind of a confusing thing. Maybe like you said, he's just still on the journey, but he's like, oh, my lifetime, you know, hero. I can't wait to be on the stage with Eminem. It's like, but if you're, you know, kind of changed heart, like, is that the right thing to do? But maybe there's, you know, more to it, maybe it's more complex. But what are your thoughts on, you know, being on stage with Eminem?

SPEAKER_00: 13:52

Hindsight's 2020, right? And so maybe someone as more of a mature Christian is hard to see it when he's a baby Christian himself, right? He still's got to crawl, walk, and run. And so while he might have idolized Eminem, right, that maybe is something where God is not the ultimate thing in his life completely, right? And so we got to move to a space where we're holy. That just means being separated for a sacred cause or a sacred effect, and then moving in godliness. And that's where the real work happens. I like to say that salvation takes one second, defication takes the rest of your life. Life over the Jesus, but then that separation and being groomed for what God has called you to do, it can take it takes all the way through eternity to work through those things, right? So I'm quick not to pass judgment, and I don't think you're casting judgment, right? You're just bringing it out to the table, right? We're just breaking these things out and we're talking about these topics. But he's got to move through his own process of sanctification.

SPEAKER_01: 14:47

Absolutely. Good stuff. And my last thing that I'm kind of struggling with, it kind of all compounds or or correlates with the previous ones. And it's something I think I've struggled with with quite a bit for a long time. And it's how do you meet people where they are, but still without compromising? I guess that's the phrase. How do you meet them where they're at? So, like, for example, like I've done things in my life which maybe other people would see as like inappropriate. Like I have a left sleeve tattoo on my arm, right? And, you know, people will say stuff about the biblical references and things like that. But I have believed that there's certain things I've done where I can make a connection and make meaningful contact with other people and be able to do that. But there's got to be some line between like meeting people where they are and then like at church services, like I've heard like, oh, they want the music louder or quieter, you know, bending over backwards for what people want. You know, there has to be some level of line of where it is, right? Like you can't start incorporating things that aren't biblical. So, what are your thoughts on like the line between like, you know, you have to go to the streets, you have to go to places that are more impoverished, you'd have to go to places to meet people where they are, but you have to not compromise. So, what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00: 16:04

Yeah, some of those things, and that covers a broad range of topics because people are full of opinions. So everybody has an opinion just like everyone has a you can fill in the blank, right? And so I think what our barometer is, where our baseline is, is the Bible. And so some people take that, can be very overzealous and more are more religious. You talked about the tattoos, right? The tattoos people tend to lean into Leviticus, but or they tend to lean into when the neighboring countries they were cutting themselves, or those tattoos were an emanation of their belief system, of the God that they represented, right? And so people hold on to those things, and there's some references in the New Testament that people like to hold on to, and I don't want to focus on that, but I think we have to step into the gaps with grace, right? So everyone has a background, again, everyone's on that journey. What does the Bible say? But the Bible does have some hard lines, right? Of what not to cross morally. And so I think if we're staying within those hard lines, there are some things that are more within or they're more national things that we believe holistically as a Christian community, right? These are the hard lines, these are the things that we need to stick to, and there are some things that are more like state to state where one denomination or one may fixate on one thing or the other. So I would really hyper focus on what does the Bible say? What does that mean for the moral framework of what it what it means? And then ultimately, are we giving glory to God? To your point, you're using your testimony, the story that no one can take away from you, right? It's your testimony of how you've gotten to this point, and then you're able to make that connection, which is going to allow your story to bring to pour into someone else's story, which turns days into decades, which leads people to salvation and sanctification. But you're the seed planter, right? So Paul laid the seeds, Apollo's water, but God creates a growth. And so you're bringing your seeds, someone else is bringing the water, and then God's creating the growth only like God can within the midst of that situation.

SPEAKER_01: 17:54

Which that's one thing. Like if they're, you know, the listeners only take one thing from today. I I hope that is Jesus, you know, God, his biggest thing is is love. I mean, if you boil it down to one thing. So I think a lot of times we get hung up, and I feel like people that are not as religious or even on the agnostic or atheist side, they see religion or Christianity as a list of rules or things that prohibit them from doing things. And I don't think that's the way that it was designed. It wasn't designed to take something away from you. It was something to give to you, uh, to cover, you know, sin and, you know, cover things that we could never do ourselves. So I think, you know, that's like one of the most important things. It should be seen as love, a peace that, you know, knows no understanding and things like that, taking away depression, anxiety, lots of different things. So the the good side of it, there are different things like hard lines in the sand, like you mentioned, but that was never meant to be limiting.

SPEAKER_00: 18:54

So let's pull on that string because this is one of my favorite strengths. So, because people, they like to say, all right, Christiani puts you in a box. Okay, so any major religion kind of puts you in some type of framework. So get rid of the box. Let's talk about frameworks. And so if I was to go travel down to Miami, if I was to travel eight hours down to Miami, because I'm in Florida right now, travel down there, and I was to try to go into a club, they would want me to wear a certain pair of shoes, wear a certain shirt, wear certain pants, right? Like maybe not have certain, depending on the type of club or the or the lane of society it's in, I may not be able to come in with certain tattoos and all kinds of crazy stuff, right? They have a rules of engagement that they want to operate in, right? So that because they have a way, they want that ecosystem to move and operate. So when it comes to God's economy, there's a way that you need to operate, and that goes all the way back to the garden, right? So God made everything that was good, and then he put humans in the garden. He said, Hey, I want you to steward this good thing that I have, right? And so that is, and it's not so that you can blossom in a place of cultivation, so you can do the purpose that you've intended. I I've placed rule over something that you don't even necessarily supposed to have rule over. Like I gave you this perfect thing and I'm I'm empowering you to take over this thing. And then like we broke the covenant, right? And because we broke the covenant, there's consequences of that. And so if I break the rules down in Miami, I don't get to get in the club. If I don't if I don't believe Jesus is the truth, the life, and the way, right? That's that's part of the deal. Truth by itself is exclusive. And so we live in a society. Where everything is supposed to be inclusive, but by that definition, everything is exclusive, right? So there's paradigms and there's rule sets for it for everything. But God gives us this so that we can grow closer to Him and then that we may have life to the full. To your point, it's not to limit us, but it's to put us in the right condition. If my kids are in the house, right, we have rules of the household. I govern the house. My wife governs the house. She manages the house. And so there's things that we prevent them to do. If I tell you not to touch the stove, it's not because I'm trying to limit you. It's because I don't want you to burn your hand, right? And then the kid goes touch the stove and then we got to have a conversation. And that's what happened in the garden, right? They took of the fruit that they weren't supposed to take of. And then there were consequences of that. So initially, we were supposed to listen and obey. But too many times we want to step outside and we want to do our own thing in any given framework. It could be an academic framework, it could be in the military, it could be out in society or at your job, right? And then guess what? We we mess around and find out what's on the results of that. Your decisions come with good and bad consequences depending on your type of decisions. So consequences have always been a thing, but it's just a result of our faithfulness to whatever the highest laws in the land, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01: 21:42

Absolutely. Yeah, that's good stuff. Well, we have a list of questions that flowed in. Uh, so try to highlight some of these as we go along. I'll intertwine them into some of my other ones because I have another thing to ask you. But I wanted to ask you as we close out 2025, if someone feels like they're ending 2025 with no visible wins, did they fail?

SPEAKER_00: 22:06

If someone ends 2025 with no visible wins, did they fail? So my first question to that is what is defined as a win?

SPEAKER_01: 22:18

Yeah, which is another question. It says if you hear successful Christian or successful Christian life, what picture pops into your head? What's a successful Christian?

SPEAKER_00: 22:30

I have my notes on that. So initially when I think about that, like depending on who the so anytime there's a question, there's always a questioner behind the question, right? So I want to be very sensitive to that. So you know what? I have I have my response in my mind, but I don't want to be reactive. And so is that your question date or is that someone who asked the question? That's mine. So what so when you when you hear that, what does that signal to you? Like what does it resonate with you? What is when when like what generated the question? Where's where are you drawing that from?

SPEAKER_01: 23:08

So I've noticed on the show, I've had guests from all different backgrounds and things like that, but the the definition of success has come up a lot. And so that's why I kind of asked the question because people will say, Well, you need to live a successful life or you need to obtain success. Well, that's great, but what is that? And so it's interesting because with those people from different backgrounds and whatnot, it seems like more often than not we realize that there's deeper meaning. Even the people that I've had, you know, I've had a mix of religious and uh, you know, non-religious people, and even the non-religious people know there's a deeper meaning and they realize that the cars, the money, the house, all that wasn't as important. They've had people that bounced off the bottom and had to work their way back up or you know, lost everything, or different stories. But even though I've had completely different stories, like defining success and knowing where to go, and as we talk about transitioning from 25 to 26 and what we're aiming for, what that roadmap looks like, like what does success you can't get somewhere you don't know where you're going.

SPEAKER_00: 24:08

Yeah. So for the Christian, successful Christian life looks like following Jesus and looking more like Jesus. And so that's the short answer. It looks like going to the cross and carrying your cross. He says, carry your cross and follow me. But he also talks about being yoked with him, right? So he's with you on that journey. And that's the hope that we have because just as we when we go through baptism, right, we are buried with him, and then we believe that we're gonna rise with him again. And so that's the hope that we have in Jesus. Here's the here's the more drawn-out answer, right? When I first initially hear that question, it's not a good one because it's within a Western context and we want to go for the gold, right? We want the highest thing, we want the gold star. And I feel like we should be consistently moving towards humanity. And I think the the ultimate determination is to get the answer when God says, when the master says, a well done, good and faithful servant. And that's something to like chew on. Like, what does that really mean? Did you faithfully, with the time, treasures, the things that you had, did you give those things over to God and did you move the way of Jesus? If we look at the disciples, right? Jesus, they they spent time with Jesus. Like, what does that success look like? Because I think people are like, okay, so if we're changing the paradigm of what success is, follow Jesus, what exactly does that mean? It means like looking at the disciples. What did they do? They spent time with Jesus, they prayed, they walked, they were faithful to him, right? They got into the word, uh, they made other disciples according to the the Great Commission, and then they followed him through persecution with the exception of one person, and that was John. All right. And so wrestling, I wanted to give this example of like wrestling with God, because I think that's part of the Christian walk of life. And I think that's part of when we talk about success. And my my first initial question is what is your intent when you're wrestling with God? Because a lot of people feel like they wrestle with the Bible, right? That's right here. They're like, I don't understand all the connection points, right? If you look at uh Bibleinfo.com, the Bible has over 67,000 connection points between the old and the new testament, right? Which it was just why it lays the ground framework for Western society, and we won't go there. But regardless, there's so many touch points. The Bible was written over a space of 2,000 years, 40 authors, 66 books, three different languages. That's a lot to take in, right? And then it's not just that, it's like different languages, it's like you got historical narratives in there, you got poetry, you got law, law type language in there. So that can be hard. And so you're like, hey, I'm not there, I'm not a biblical scholar. Like, where do I start, Sully? What do we do? We start with prayer, right? We just start just with our availability. So I don't just say prayer just in prayer, but we start with what Isaiah has talked about in six, like Hanaini. I'm available, here I am, right? And I think when we open that availability, we open for God to work in our lives. And so we start with prayer, we start with our wrestling from there. And so how are you relevant to God? Are you trying to prove God wrong based on a circumstance that happened to you, right? Or something that you're trying to prove to God, right? You're trying to get one up on God, which is impossible to do, but right in our human nature, we we try to get up and try to boost ourselves up, or are you really trying to get to know him and understand what he's working with you in this season, how you can grow with him, and so on and so forth. And so another no I have here is uh deliberate practice plus desirable difficulty equals durable learning. And so we deliberately got to seek after God. Ask, seek, knock. So I pursue my wife, even when I was dating, I pursued my wife. And if my marriage is coming to the stall, where we have to ask ourselves, are we still pursuing the intimacy that we want in our marriage? Am I pursuing my children? Am I pursuing the intimacy there? And so we have the creator of the universe who's always open 24-7, and then we don't necessarily pursue them like we pursue the things that we do on Google. And so, what does the deliberate practice look like? It looks like prayer throughout the week, right? I'm open, I'm available. It looks like getting into his word. It looks like getting with other believers, those who, like you said, you brought a couple pastors on the podcast, right? It looks like with getting people who are more mature Christians who can guide us and lead us, whether they be women or men, right? And then the desirable difficulty, right? Getting over those learning milestones that are in the Bible, understanding what God's narrative is to me, what he's what he's trying to speak into our lives with the truth that's here, not make up my own truth, but understand the truth that's here, that's laid out in the Bible, which gives that durable learning that makes it stick. Hearing other testimonies, right? You have a testimony, go into those places that that helps a connection point that helps me get over some things that I maybe I'll put in a touch point in the word. So I'll stop there. What are the things that you heard? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01: 28:48

Lay it on me. So one yeah, one thing I'd love to ask you, I'd love to ask some of the difficult questions. And what I'd like to do is, you know, speak on other people's behalf, which probably isn't the best idea, but things that I've heard or people, things that people struggle with. And so one of the things I have heard, um, so you mentioned the Bible, and so people wanting to get in there and start reading it. And so one thing I've heard is well, the people in the Bible aren't very good examples. So you have David, right? King David takes someone else's wife, has the guy's, you know, the his friend or his, you know, his her husband killed in a line of battle intentionally. Like there was things that were done throughout the Bible that were terrible. So what what do you say to people who are like, why would I read the book of examples that weren't very good?

SPEAKER_00: 29:35

Well, yeah, there's the old adage that we learn from others' mistakes. So the people weren't were um weren't perfect, but the word of God is. So it's capturing a narrative of things that we can learn from, and then the Bible also counterbalances that with the principles that they should have subscribed to in the first place, right? It's an example that he can bring these broken people, and then through his through their in their weakness, his strength can fill them and he can bring he they can still operate and God can still love them, right? And they can still have a way back through repentance and through forgiveness and the grace and mercy that God affords, right? And so getting to know God, God talks about his personal characteristics in Exodus 34, talks about he's compassionate, slow to anger, right? All these attributes that I think there's 13 and all that they list in Exodus 34. So go check it out. But all throughout the Bible, God gives us a framework, and the Bible is not necessarily about those people, it's about God's unconditional pursuit of humankind, despite our willingness to break our covenant and our promises to God.

SPEAKER_01: 30:40

That's perfect. So to piggyback off that, people, I think another common thing is like, I'm not good enough, like I don't have the right skill sets, I don't do certain things. So could you highlight uh some of the jobs and difficult paths of like the disciples, for example, and where they came from, or even examples of using shepherds, uh, you know, career fields, I guess, of the time that weren't as desirable and things like that. How does the Lord use everyone at where they're at?

SPEAKER_00: 31:08

Yeah, that's such a large question. So, yes, the story of Jesus is about getting to the people that are on the fringes, right? Those people that are in need, those people he talks about it in Luke 4. Hold on. Let me get to Luke 4 because I I don't like paraphrasing the Bible.

SPEAKER_01: 31:26

And then I think this gets after meeting people where they're at, right? Like everyone's on different journeys, like you said, we're all at different points, and at no point are we supposed to be perfect because there's only one perfect, and it's definitely not us.

SPEAKER_00: 31:37

Yeah. And while I'm while I'm getting to Luke 4, which I'm pulling up on it now, where Jesus talks about he's reading from Isaiah, but he talks about who he's coming to on the verge of his ministry. But many of the disciples were fishermen. There was one that was a zealot who basically leads rebellions, and then we have we have Matthew, who was a tax collector. So tax collectors were very unique people in the time because they were taxing their own people. They worked for the Roman government, but yet they were Jewish people that were taking money from their own people. So they were seen as outcasts as well. And so fishermen, very lowly positioned, right? And then Jesus himself, and even John 10, talks about he's the good shepherd. And the shepherd at the time, shepherds were not people that people liked. They were dirty, they were out in the field all the time, right? They were just like, and some people, some of those shepherds were were thieves. They would take from other people's property because they were so nomadic, right? So they'd be sleeping on people's property, they'd be all over the place. But when his reference of the good shepherd, right, he's watching over the flock, he's watching over the body, he's watching over the body of Christians, right? Those who would come to him. And so he has a staff, and it actually talks about this in allusion in um Psalm 23, and we could read that if we want to, but right, so he guides us, he guides the believer. No one can come to the Father except through him. And so he's seen as this good shepherd. I don't think it's ironic that he says good shepherd. He places that that adjective in front of it, right? And it describes who he is and his covering, and shepherds would actually, the gates weren't as traditional as they are now. They would sleep between the entrance of the gate at night. And so the shepherd would be the first one to come in contact if something was trying to eat the flock or attack the flock or steal the sheep. They would be there in the gap. And that's what Jesus does for us, right? It talks about in Hebrews that he intercesses on our behalf. Ever since Jesus has been on this planet, he's this intercession all the way up through the cross, right? And that's how we are able to have a conduit through God because we have we're in this fallen state, and then Jesus puts us in righteousness because we wear his righteousness and he took on our sin. And so he even took a shepherd, the idea of a shepherd where people didn't really didn't like these people and he turned it into something that's good, and how he uses that analogy. Um, okay, Luke 4. I was like, where were we at? Okay, Luke 4. The Spirit of the Lord is on me because he has anointed me to proclaim the good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim the freedom for the prisoners, recovery of the sight of the blind, and to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor, right? He's here to bring hope. So we're here, Jesus sets the example for us. So Jesus shows us how to turn the other cheek, shows us how to pray for those who persecutes us. He even says that blessed are those who are persecuted because of my name. He tells us how to take the shirt off our back. If we if someone asks us to go a mile, we go the extra mile. And that time, when it came to Roman conscription, they can actually ask someone who wasn't a Roman citizen to carry their armor and stuff for a mile. And so he's saying, Show radical generosity, right? Show my love, show my father's love, and actually go the extra mile, right? If somebody's asking you to go a mile. And so that's what it means to step in the gaps with grace. Honestly, I've lost where we've actually started from.

SPEAKER_01: 34:53

That's interesting, though, because I had just seen that and it was interesting because the person that was talking about it, a lot of times that's seen as Christian should be walked on or you know, bend over backwards or whatnot. But I thought it was interesting because the guy was talking about it actually being the other way. It's more offensive, actually. Because I guess the rule was, like you said, you could walk the mile, but if you did extra, the person that ordered it actually got in trouble because they were doing excessive punishment. So by doing the extra, it's not being uh, you know, falling over fetal position, like just getting attacked or whatever. It was actually nonviolent protest to be able to do something where you're in control and kind of take back the power in the situation, which I had never known. I'd always heard the turn the other cheek, always seemed very passive, but actually completely the opposite, more offensive, which was kind of interesting. Interesting, where you have to read the things in the context of the time. I think that's one thing that's always difficult. We hear like women can't be leaders or different passages that are taken out of context. We're not looking at the cultural um, you know, rules and and cultural vibes of the time. And to go back earlier, I had kind of touched on some of the things that I find are kind of common myths or things like that. What do you think? What's the most common myth that you see people that maybe are not in the faith and have resistance, like enter the faith? What what do you think it's a common misconception, kind of going back to the rules and it's only rules?

SPEAKER_00: 36:22

I think that that was the misconception because I think once you get into autonomous living, right, then you lose the moral high ground and the justice that God lays out. And so there's a reason why his justice raised supreme, he's the ultimate judge. And there's a reason why in Nuremberg, when they were trying to prosecute all the Nazis, they used the law above the law. Because when we make up our own rules and we make up our own rule sets, like what works for me doesn't work for you. And so it's like, yeah, like everything is possible, everything we should just go do everything, right? Embrace love is this, love is that, right? We take love and we fracture it into whatever we form it into be. And when we do that, uh, we're left to our own devices. And when left to your own devices, you're left to our own devices. So good luck. But I say that because again, everything cancels each other out. And so, what is the moral framework that we should stand on? And what is when I talk about this, the only thing that makes sense to me logically is a framework that's outside of our own, that's objective, that that's a sounding board for us to act on. Something that I didn't create myself because when I when I create it, then I can alter it at any given time. And so I think we're in a time where things are shifting based on what works for me in this particular season and what's good about God's law and his moral framework is that it endures forever and it's above our own, our thoughts, right? His thoughts are higher than our thoughts, his ways are higher than our ways.

SPEAKER_01: 37:45

Yeah, I always think of like the gift of you know him going on the cross and things like that. We recently watched The Passion, and obviously it's a movie recreation, but even that, like watching the pain and suffering from someone that is so powerful, all powerful, can do anything, and chooses to sit on the cross through, you know, the unimaginable, like worst death you can have, other than I guess being flipped upside down, which happens later. The crucifixion is just awful. And they've even, you know, shown the crown of thorns, which in movies it just kind of sits up there, and then you know, come to find out it's actually beaten down and and pushed in with you know 40 or 50 different horns and thorns all you know going into the skull and things like that. So it's just you know, cat of nine-tales by itself is pretty insane. You have a whip with balls on the end, and then you you know put an adhesive of some kind, and then they smash pots and then put the smashed clay pots. Think of a pot, like anything you've ever broken, like glass, ceramic, and then attaching that to a whip and then hitting somebody in the back with like just getting hit by a whip alone would be horrendous, let alone covered in broken pots. So the ability where he went through the suffering and pain and didn't, you know, pull himself out of the situation in an instant with his voice, with a snap of a finger, you know, whatever, however he wants to do it, lifts himself off the cross and could just get out of there. But that gift to be able to sit there and experience everything that we experience, I think is super important. Do you have any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00: 39:18

I do. So I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I think that that is a terrific example when we talk about following Christ's example, especially in circumstances that where we may feel like we're innocent. Like, why are we deserving this thing? The most innocent person took on the wrath of everybody's sin, but he took on something that they did a whole bunch of illegal things, even in the Jewish custom, to get him there to that point. And at any one point, he could have bailed out. He could have just, he could have pulled chalks, right? Or he could have just called everything down from heaven, legions of angels, and just took over. But that's not what he did. And so we're all on our own via Dela Rosa, right? That's the route that Christ took. And so we're all on this journey through life. We're all walking through our wilderness into the promised land, the promise of eternity to meet, to meet Jesus. And so we're on Via de la Rosa, and like there's all kinds of twists and turns in that Via de la Rosa. There's all times that we can like tap out, right? We get tempted, people pull us to the side. And even when he was on his Via de la Rosa, where one of the Roman soldiers told this random guy, Simon, to help him carry the cross, the cross weighs anywhere from 150 to 300 pounds. And so God is sending. That he is yoked with us in that, right? Just as Simon helped Jesus get to the Calvary, Jesus is there walking on our Via della Rosa. He understands the pain and suffering that we're going through, the things that we've been tempted. And the Bible talks about in every way that he was tempted, but he did not lean into those things, right? And so God gives us a way out, as it talks about in the New Testament when we're filling those circumstances. And sometimes the way out, and all the time the way out is through God. And so, Laren, I hope at the feet of the of the cross, I agree with you wholeheartedly, but he can relate with our sufferings. We're all in our Via Dola Rosa. And so don't tap out, right? Keep walking it. Jesus is yoked with you, but you just have to be available and call on him.

SPEAKER_01: 41:08

Yeah. And I want to make a quick note. I'm able to go to Bible study. We have it Wednesday, 1230 in building 619. I don't think that's going to apply to many people outside of here, but I just had the epiphany the other day on how powerful it is. I mean, I'm currently stationed in the United Kingdom, American citizen, but I've been in countries where I have the ability and freedom to walk over to another building in my uniform, holding my Bible in hand, and then stop and, you know, take 30 minutes. You know, it's not a lot of time, but it's enough to recharge, feel good, be next to other believers. And it was just something so profound to me where I'm not freaked out. I'm not scared. I'm not looking around corners. I'm not worried if someone is gonna, you know, harm me or take me to jail. And so there's two sides to that coin. There's that's awesome that I get to because I'm in the United Kingdom right now, but there's also all the persecuted churches. So I do want to take a quick moment where, you know, that is something that's super important. It's powerful. I think it's awesome on one side, but I guess there's two uh coins or sides to each coin where it is awesome for me, but there is uh quite a few other people. We see stuff going in in our Nigeria and other places. But one thing I wanted to touch on briefly uh was we were going through Hebrews, and one of the questions that was so profound to me, and it's still, I think it'll like stick with me probably for the rest of my life, was it was did Jesus need man? And I think he did. I think in a lot of religions, you have a God that is up somewhere, that sits in clouds, that's far removed, they're big and in the sky. He came down and walked with us and went through all the pain and difficulties that humans have. And that is the reason that we're able to connect. So if he skips that step and doesn't come down, become born, be a baby, have to figure out how to walk, how to, you know, stub his toe, all the things where he was human. And I think that's one thing. If we're looking at different religions and people are like, well, how do you know, or why do you think yours is best or most accurate? And that's one thing I can't seem to argue or go against. It's the only one that has a connection as human to human, even though three parts in one, and probably don't want to get into the Trinity because that's a whole thing in itself. But what are your thoughts on, you know, that connection on, or I guess the question, I'll just pose it to you. Do you think Jesus needed to become man?

SPEAKER_00: 43:35

So God can do anything. Let's start there. But logically speaking, in terms of the narrative of how everything is set up, we everything goes back to the garden. Shout out to my brother Ray, because we always say that everything goes back to the garden. So as uh as the Bible says in Romans, right, through and through one man, through the first Adam, right, came sin. Through the world was saved through the second Adam or saved through another man, right? And so that man was Jesus Christ. And so one thing that is that I've covered in my divinity courses is first Colossians or Colossians one, verse 13 through 21 is a real good part. For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son He loves, in whom we have redemption and the forgiveness of sins. The Son is the image of the invisible God. The Son is the image of the visible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created. We see this in John 1, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, thrones or powers or rulers of authorities, all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, that is the church. He is the beginning and the firstborn of the dead, which we know from the resurrection, so that in everything everything he might reign supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him and through him to reconcile himself to all things. That's the part that I wanted to nail home, whether things on earth or things in heaven by making peace through his blood and shed on the cross. That's where you're getting at. So I had to read all the things because that was the buildup, right? But sin ended through Adam and right, and so him coming in being fully human and fully divine, that is the reconciliation. And so that's where I talk about before restoration, which the book of Revelation talks about, there needs to be reconciliation. If you get into an argument or if you guys break a contract or a covenant with your wife, before you guys have restoration in your marriage, you guys have to reconcile with each other, right? You guys have to come to a meeting point of reconciliation. I'm willing to meet you here. And God, Emmanuel with us, was able to step down from his throne the only way that God could, so that he could reconcile humanity to himself, all things to himself. No one else can do that. We can't reconcile everything up to God. He's the creator of all things. So that's why it logically makes sense because he was the creator of all things. We broke all the things, and so he's like, I have to reconcile, I have to meet them where they are because I can't go where they are because I'm all perfect God. I'm all the things. So I'm sending my word down to you, who is fully divine and fully human, and that he was born of a woman, right? And so when we see that, when we see the Holy Spirit descending on Mary, that's the same thing as when we're seeing the Spirit dwelling over the waters. We see this recapitulation of what happens in Genesis 1. The Spirit is just hovering over the untapped waters. And so we see that again hovering over what is going to be birth the womb of fraternity, which is Jesus coming, coming and walking with us, Emmanuel with us, so that he can take on and God can reconcile the world through himself and endure all the suffering that we couldn't do for ourselves.

SPEAKER_01: 46:55

So I got a softball question for you. If somebody's listening right now and they're like, hey, I just don't feel like I did enough in 2025. Can you ever do enough?

SPEAKER_00: 47:10

Uh it depends on what enough is and what their affirmations are. Right. What their what's what are you trying to fill your cup with, to your point, right? I wasn't I was an athlete for many years that competed all over the world. And it didn't, I never felt that fullness anytime I got a trophy. I never was like elated. It was always a sigh of relief. Like my work panned out, right? I finally I got I did the thing, but like an hour later, that high is gone. There's a thing that's called effective forecasting where we project that, hey, if we reach this moment, if we reach this milestone, if we get this degree, if we get this thing, if I get my black belt and BJJ, right, if I do the thing, then I'm gonna be on top of the world, everything's gonna be amazing. If I get married to that person, everything's gonna be, and then everything falls short. There's actually a term in psychology called the gold medal syndrome where they talk about that, where the gold medalists, you see them all elated, right? They get all the pictures, they get the flowers, and then some of them go into deep depression because like they get the thing now, like they've lost their purpose. Like, what do I do next? And some people keep going for the medals and medals, but eventually your body's gonna get older, you're not gonna be able to compete at that level, and then what do you have? Right. And I know many athletes from the club, I've competed in college. I know a lot of people that have competed in college are semi-pro at the professional level, they go through that depression, right? Because their things are not eternal, their hearts aren't things eternal. And it talks about that in Ecclesiastes 3, where the human heart is set on eternity. God pulls the human heart into eternity. The question is, is which eternity are you gonna spend your time in? Are you gonna be on the narrow road? Are you gonna be on the wide road, right? Being aimlessly fulfilling all the desires and keep falling flat, but then, or attaching yourself to the living water and the the bread, who is Jesus Christ, who's always gonna, who's gonna provide that feeling for you. And so the Bible never promises happiness, but there's deep joy, right? The joy of the Lord, there's things that we can feel deep inside of us because we're constantly connected to his fullness and he feels that brokenness for us.

SPEAKER_01: 49:09

Yeah, there's that joy that's really hard to understand. I mean, we say the joy that knows no understanding, and you can't really know until you know you have that with you. The psychology thing is really wild to me because I saw a study they were doing, you know, how people felt and how thankful they were. And they did a big, you know, test study on the Olympics, I think it was, and they found the most like grateful person was bronze. Because like gold was like wanting to like move on and do the next thing. Silver was bum, they didn't get gold. And then bronze is just happy to be up there, like, yes, I'm here, like I made it. And like, so at a glance, you would think, oh, for sure it's gold or silver, it's gotta be one or two, and it's like, no, it's number three. They're just glad to be there because four isn't on any podium, so a little backward sometimes, but yeah. But yeah, I think to drive home the point can you do anything to earn your own salvation?

SPEAKER_00: 50:03

No, no, that's why we had Jesus. Like, that's but I can't do any. So there are faiths out there that they require works, right? I think even in the Islam, there's some type of works that are in it, uh, the Mormon church as well, and there's some other the other uh religious denominations and things that where you have to earn yourself. I think even Buddhism or the one that has to do with nirvana, right? It's the eightfold path. I have to walk this thing, and you still may not reach nirvana. God's like, you start from a place of victory. My son did all the work for you, and like now you just have to listen and obey in the things that I'm doing. And not from like a strict regimented, but like, hey, seek me. I want to love you, I want to do things, I want to bless you, I want to have a relationship with you because you were made in my image. Like, just come, just come to me. Right? Anyone who would open their door, he would come and sit with them, as it talks about in Revelations. And so, yeah, God just wants to have a relationship with you, and he wants to pour in you, and he wants you to be filled in every aspect of your life. But we do have to justify suppose that with the broken nation of this world as well. We talked about the Olympics. I do want to bring up Rowdy Gaines. Rowdy Gaines was a guy, do you know who that is?

unknown: 51:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 51:14

He is a swimmer. So Rowdy Gaines was a guy who back in 1976, he trained for four years uh to swim like the hundred-meter race and all kinds of different races uh that he participated in. And then in 1980, they decided that the Olympics was going to be in Moscow and the U.S. boycotted. And so he trained for four years and he he couldn't perform because the US boycotted then the then he had to train for another four years. So he likes to say that he trained eight years to swim around the world because the amount of lap in eight years equated to him literally swimming like 20,000 miles around the globe as for a fifth race. And so he ended up getting gold in 1984 when the Olympics was in Los Angeles, but he trained eight years for a race. You saying Boat likes to say he trained four years for like an eight-second race, eight-second yeah. Eight years for a fickin race, right? For things that are outside of your control. So that's probably the first point. Like, what are the things outside your control? Right. And you learn to let those things go and give those things over to God. But then we have to move from intent to intentionality. And so we have this big idea of God to your point. And so, like, how do we have the intentionality? Well, it's the deliberate swimming, like that Roddy Gaines did. Like, just keep swimming, like Dory said, just keep swimming, right? And so my biblical reference is Joshua into the promised land. He had to wait 40 years. He was with Moses that whole 40 years that was in the wilderness. He even had to be a spy. They fought some battles coming out of Egypt. Joshua was there the whole time. He had been through all the circumstances that Moses has been to, and now he's got to lead these people into the promised land, and then he had to defeat 31 Canaanite kings. So he still had some work to do. And so that's the intentionality. We push into the promise. So God lays out the promise before us, right? He has this loving relationship for us. Our intentionality comes to meeting God and being available, to prayer, to word, to getting with other believers, right? That is the sweat equity that we get of laying into God's economy and building the kingdom. And so building ourselves like God will work on us while we're in that, building that intimacy and taking away the chaff that we don't need anymore and being more filled with Him, and then getting and strengthening the body of Christians.

SPEAKER_01: 53:29

Yeah, I think to continue on, the like common misconception. I said love, but love and relationship, I think, go hand in hand. And I think that's one thing I wish more people would understand. Like we talked about the rules and the limiting and things like that. You start to change your heart, like you had mentioned, and you want to do the things. You want to have quiet time, you want to have devotion, you want to read the Bible, you want to learn more. And it reminds me of like, you know, if you have a good boss or things like that, like you connect with them and you know, they do what's right, and like you want to work harder and things like that. And so I don't see it as much as limiting or a set of rules. It's not a checklist, it's the relationship. So if there's like one thing, you know, I said one thing earlier, maybe two things, I guess. The takeaway is it's about relationship. You want to do those things. Your heart changes, you want to start serving, you want to help others, you want to, you know, helping kids church, and it just expands. It's that relationship. It's not, oh, I wanted, you know, 20 rules of things I couldn't do. It's I want to do the right thing because my heart has changed.

SPEAKER_00: 54:31

Yeah, I think that's a great point. So when we look at the Greek, we look at love and what it, what it, what it's broken down into. So you got agape, you got philia, uh, you got storge, and then you got Eros. And so um, agape, that's God love. And then we and like we can talk about that. And then you got storge, which is like friend love, and then you got philia, which is like family love, and then you have Eros, which is like that sexual relations that you have with your spouse, right? And so here, 1 Corinthians 13 talks about love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud, it does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with truth. Jesus said he is the truth, the life, and the way. It also protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. Why do I say that? Because we see that in John 3.16. We see what God did for us and all of humanity. We see it in the garden. And R.C. Sproul was the one that made it was either R. C. Sproul or another theologian. So I may be miss miss some theologians, but I watched the talk and I was just like, that was the perfect example. In the garden, we well, people like to challenge. That's a misconception. We're talking about misconception. So people like to challenge why was God so ruthless and like kicking us out of the garden to where we have all these consequences and stuff. And the theologian, the pastor, was like, no, that was God's compassion. He could have killed, he could have wiped out humanity in that moment, right? We broke the agreement, we brought in sin, the thing that is opposite of who he is and all goodness and all righteousness and all holiness of who he is. He is that holy, the point where like sin, he's cast out sin. And so we broke it in our transgressions and our iniquity, right? We went behind God's back and we broke the agreement that we had with him. And by all rights and justice, because his justice is good, he could have just wiped us out. He could have started right back over again. Instead, he moves us out of a place where we can immediately dwell with him and he covers them with uh clothing. He covers them. It talks about that, it talks about the skin that they get covered with. So not only God meets us in the gap, right? God came in the garden already knowing what had happened. And so God stepped in there and we see this echoed with Jesus, right? Jesus steps in for us, and so God steps in and provides a covering when we don't even deserve it. Something else gets sacrificed instead of us being sacrificed. And so I think that is love at its ultimate thing. Just what I read about in 1 Corinthians 13 describes love, and which I believe describes God in the act of Jesus.

SPEAKER_01: 57:17

And I think love like gets misconstrued a lot too. Like one of my saw a keynote speaker at Senior Leadership Workshop, which is like a big conference for medical every year, the first December or first week in December. Oh, what's his name? I can't think of what his name is right now. Wow, just blanked on it. But uh, he writes a book called The Fred Factor. And uh he's got a talk that's really great. And he's like, Oh, there's three loves. And he's like, he, I guess he put love in his book a bunch of times. They said, Oh, we need to take it out and change it to generosity of spirit. And he's like, No, like I want love. And they're like, Love freaks people out. And then he, you know, goes back and forth. But he's like, I think, you know, people see love as sensuality, sexuality, these different things. He's like, Love, he defines it as like mutual respect for other people, which, you know, at its baseline, I think is correct. But I think that happens a lot too, where we were talking earlier about meeting people where they're at or, you know, not compromising. I think that's difficult. It's like, oh, well, you should love everybody, but there is certain things that, you know, like you said, the hard lines in the sand. And I think if you truly love somebody, you have the difficult conversation. Because sometimes love ends up being rainbows and butterflies, which I don't know where kind of over time it's like heart and Valentine's Day and whatnot. But it's like real love is challenging and sometimes difficult because you want them to get on the you don't want to watch your brother or sister like do drugs and like waste their life away. And so love, I think, you know, we I guess tough love or different words or whatnot, but how do you think like the proper definition of love is from the Bible?

SPEAKER_00: 58:48

Yeah, so I talked about those four flavors of love, and I think everybody can see someone in one of those flavors of love, right? So God, friends, family, and so God, friends, family, and then again, with your spouse. And so again, that intimacy, and I I would hammer down on Eros, is like my my intimacy isn't for everybody, right? It's for my spouse. And so just God shows us that, right? And it's kind of it is described in Psalm of Psalms, which is kind of analogous to it, but that driving home that intimacy is only for that one person. And so God wants that intimacy to be special and holy and set apart. So, anyway, but yeah, people like to define love in all kinds of different ways. And so, if I look at those four categories, how does God challenge me to love those people? How does God challenge me to love him, engage with him, and operate within his kingdom? How does God challenge me to like love my friends and family, like love your neighbor as you love yourself, right? So all these things can be even seen in the two greatest commandments. But we see these things. I would challenge people to go read the Sermon on the Mount and specifically in Matthew 5, 3 through 11, the first opening of the Sermon on the Mount, where it talks about blessed are the meek and so on and so forth. And look at those people and look at the life of Jesus and who he loved, right? He loved the widows, the orphans, the homeless, all those people that were in need, right? Like his disciples. He loved his enemies. So God shows us the capstone of what love looks like, and he he shows us throughout his his narrative and his pursuit of us, but he shows us in the life of Jesus when he's sitting with us. And so, again, humans are messy and we are human ourselves, so we we could be messy ourselves. And so, how do we take Through these principles which fortify our faith and actually exhibiting those things. That's where our worship walks. That's where our faith grows legs, is us actually stepping into the realm of where God has called us to be and where he stepped in. To those people that are on the margin, those people that are imprisoned, those people that need our help, those coworkers that you're when you're picking up your Bible and you're walking out and they're like, hey, Nate, where are you going? And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to Bible study. Like, you're more than welcome to come with me, right? We got some Chick-fil-A or we have some other some snacks and stuff that you can have with us, right? But that's that's being a neighbor. That's stepping into the gap. It's meeting people where they are. It's not sometimes we like to pigeonhole these things, but it's literally like my neighbor James, who comes out and takes a smoke every day. And like, how am I greeting him? How am I talking to him, right? And how am I showing how I'm loving on my kids? How am I loving on him, right? How am I taking the time to have a conversation, a God-filled conversation, just not a conversation about everything and anything, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:21

Yeah, I think love is commonly misuh defined. Well, final question since we're at the hour solely, if someone listening had to aim at one thing, one practice, one, I don't know, one thing in 2026, what do you think they should be focused on?

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:37

I think they should be focused on one just person in general. Are we talking about believers? Okay. One, I think everyone needs Jesus. So I'll I'll start there. But I think we're really good with intent, as I talked about earlier. We're big with the we're good with the pie in the sky. So I'm glad you actually mentioned that because I I was at the I was at Books a Million with my family, which rarely happens. Like my kids love books, I like books and stuff. Um, I'm always reading. But one of the most questions that I'm asked is like, where do I start? Right? How do I read the Bible? Where do you think I should start? And it all depends on where the person's at, but I'm always big on reading the Bible from front to back. You don't get the New Testament without the Old Testament. And there's this book that I ran across called Bible Recap.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:25

I was like, You just signed up for this.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:28

So like the new version.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:30

No, I didn't even know about that. So, like, look how look how God's working. So, like, yeah, so Bible recap. I thought this was so amazing how it breaks into sections of how you can go through a 52-week period, right, reading through the Bible, and it gives good synopsis. It has like if you want to do it with a discussion, you could do it here. If you want to, like, there's study guides and all this stuff came in yesterday. And I bought it because like I like to put my money where my mouth is, right? I'm giving people recommendations, and so I like them to be sturdy recommendations that I'm giving and things that I've experienced myself. If you're also going to start, I would also recommend reading through the gospels, or if you want to even start with John, because John ties all the way back to the garden. I think you can make the mental connections. Your synapses kind of come fire over that. But intent versus intentionality. We we talk about in the military all the time you get promoted off of potential. But potential is energy at rest. And so we have to move from potential to possibility. And how do we do that is through intentionality. And so, one example I'll give is we signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776. We said, Hey, we're awesome. 72 people came together, right? And then like 13 that represented 13 colonies, and we said, This is the big idea, this is who we want to be. We're independent. The thing is, we actually weren't independent until seven years later in 1783. It took 250 battles and skirmishes for us to be independent. And so just start. I and I'm glad you brought this up too, because I'm not trying to be hard, right? I'm not trying to beat anybody over with the Bible. Here's the thing in grace and in humility, we have no excuse. And I say that because we have Google, we have all the search engines in the world, right? Adults, there have been studies that adults take on five learning projects a year outside of their normal profession in adragogy, right? And how adults learn. And so we take on all these learning projects on things that we're curious about all the time, but when we say we're curious about Jesus and we won't search up anything, we won't go ask for advice at our local church or ask for a mentor or a trusted agent. Take the time, right, to be to lean into that curiosity. As Einstein talks about having a holy curiosity, lean into that, be intentional, take the steps, right? There's gonna be battles, there's gonna be circumstances, there's gonna be things that get in the way. Uh, but a dream delayed is not a dream denied. And so continue to lean into that relationship with God, continue to be intentionally, right? Make it stick. And what I'll finally offer is build a sidewalk where you are. So if you're like my man Nate and you travel all over the place, right? Like he's building a sidewalk where he is. He's genuinely being the Christian man and the man of God that he is, wherever he is, right? And whoever he's bumping into. Me, I'm not traveling as much these days, but there's all kinds of neighbors and people throughout the population that I bump to in the community on a daily basis. And so God doesn't always need some grandiose thing from you. He just needs your obedience that opens up opportunity and just building a sidewalk where you are. And he's gonna one, as we started this talk, he's the one that's gonna create the growth. And so take the onus off yourself because I know as Christians, we like to take on the onus, right? I need to save the world, I need to do much more, I need to do all these good acts. I'm not feeding enough poor people, I'm not doing enough Bible studies, I haven't memorized that scripture. No, God just wants your heart, He just wants your obedience, and He wants you to show up and then God will show out, right? So build a sidewalk where you're already walking and God will do the rest.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:59

I love that. That's awesome. I've seen something recently where people were talking about everyone wants to, you know, they focus on being missionaries in foreign countries and learning languages. And the guy was like, There's a lot of broken people here. And I was like, that's so true. It's like, I gotta go and travel and raise funds. And that's, you know, not putting that down in any way. That's awesome as well. But there's so many people just in the United States, or, you know, like you said, your neighbor that needs help. I would throw out uh the U version Bible, awesome app. Uh, if you want to poke around, look up some stuff. Uh, I recently downloaded Mana. I've only had it for a couple days, but they describe it as the Duolingo for the Bible, so it asks questions and whatnot, only a few days into that, but that's been pretty cool. In the UVersion app, uh, which is completely free, bunch of plans in there, so you can do a 365. The Bible recap is in there. Her initials are TLC, so that's kind of cool. I forget her exact name, but I do remember her saying TLC. But I'll be going through that, uh, has some recap. It sounds like 12 minutes of reading every day, and then an eight-minute kind of you know, breakdown devotion from her for a total of 20 minutes. And I think that goes back to like solely saying and being intentional. About a couple years ago, I rolled my clock back. And so I go to the gym in the morning because that's the best time for me because I can't do the afternoon. If it's afternoon, I'm just not going. I'm driving home. I got to get that done and over with. But I rolled the clock back an hour and having the quiet time in the morning and having something intentional. Like I think it's the CEO of Southwest. He said, you know, judge somebody by their checkbook and their calendar. Like, what do they actually put on the calendar? Where's the money come from? Those are the things you can really figure out what drives a person. And so I rolled that clock back, and that's not tooting my own horn, but just saying, like being intentional where that quiet time is there, the family's not up, it's quiet, be able to dive into the devotion and things like that. But my day feels completely different on the days where the quiet devotion is there versus the days that it's not there. So set an alarm, you know, find whatever that is, but that intentionality I think is super important. We'll go into closing remarks. Uh, I don't know, Sully, if you want to say anything about MTM or anything else, but we're here. If anyone else has any questions or anything, no experts by any means, but want to, you know, get people to where they need to be. So here, if anyone wants to fire off any questions or let us know. But closing, closing remarks.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:15

Yeah, I um I like all the things that Nate said as far as the tools. One tool I'm gonna recommend, and I'll I'll drop below this video is the Air Force chaplains have an ongoing running account with RightNow Media. Right now, media is basically a mega database that with a bunch of study guides, videos, things from your favorite preachers or maybe people you've come across, but it's it's just like a super database or repository for all things God. And so it's just it's just a tool. It's not the all or nothing, but it's something that you can drop in and people pay for this. But if you are a military member or a spouse, you can definitely uh take, they'll pay for it for free. You just have to set up the account. So I'll drop up the link in there. Um the second thing I'll offer in closing remarks is you never stand taller than when you're on your knees. And so when I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do is pray. I start with attitude of gratitude, and I'm opening myself up to everything that God would have to me. And I'm just having a dialogue with the father to Nate's point. The earth is quiet, everybody's quiet, the kids are in bed, and then from there I get into my word and then I get into additional reading. And then the third thing is I didn't want to leave the audience because I don't know who's listening without telling you who you are. So Ephesians 2 10, one of my favorite verses, for we are God's handiwork. Some of the versions say masterpiece, depending on the translation, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God has prepared for in advance for us to do. And so there's some great things that God can do for you in 2026. You are God's handiwork. You have time, talents, and treasures, you have tools and gifts that God can use within building his kingdom and moving out within the godly economy that he set forth and bringing the the kingdom to earth as it talks about in Matthew 6 when it talks about prayer. And so if anybody doesn't know how to pray, because I get that question too, I would I would recommend looking at the Lord's Prayer, which is in Matthew 6, but you also see what he calls about what's not praying. He talks about what people do about boasting on the street and other things like that. But you can do that, or you can follow one of my favorites is tacos. So I have a I have a patch on the back of my bed, uh my bag, my OCP bag that says, after this, we're getting tacos, right? Because I'm usually leaving the gym. And so tacos stands for Thanksgiving, right? I'm giving thanks, having an attitude of gratitude for all the things that are around me, even just breathing this morning, right? Having adoration, grateful for who he is, worshiping God for who he is and the creator that he is. Confession, where are the things that I miss the mark? Sin is missing the mark. Where have I gone awry, Lord? Help me get back on the path, help me get back on a narrow path. Observant. Tacos, observing, yeah. So, like, how do I step in the gap for other people? Right? So how or we could use supplication at the end of tacos, right? We can ask for supplication. So, how am I intercessing for other people? Right. And so I would just look at tacos, look at, look at how you can pray for other people, look how you can give praise. But that's just a rubric, it's a loose rubric, but again, look at Matthew 6, shows you how to pray, but it talks about bringing kingdom to earth. I know these were long remarks, but I want people to know who they are. I want them to know that God is available for you. Make yourself available for him. He can do amazing things for you in 2026. I think 2026 is going to be a year of ignite, right? Setting people on fire for the Lord, setting communities on fire. And I think he's just gonna work in a magnificent way. Thank you for having me on the podcast. Thanks for talking with this. Uh, I hope this wasn't too much of a circular conversation, but I think anytime that we break open the word, uh, people get fed.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:48

Absolutely. And I think in closing, I'll say everyone is wonderfully made. I think for the longest time, I went through a Bible academy at my church and we did a thing on spiritual gifts. And I think that's one thing I've always struggled with. I think I've always been kind of weird, and a lot of times I pride myself on weirdness, but then there's also a little bit of imposter syndrome. And so I think if you're struggling with being weird or outcast or not having the skills that you think that you need, you are wonderfully made. You are made exactly the way that you were supposed to to connect and meet other people and bring other people. So if you're feeling down, you didn't do enough this year, or you're just feeling a little off. I think, you know, take that encouragement that the person, you know, Jesus Christ, the God that can make sunsets that are vibrant and just a million colors and you know, see creatures and just list anything that's amazingly made. You are one of those things that is amazingly and wonderfully made. So you are great. You're exactly who you're supposed to be. Feel that empowerment and uh hopefully gain a little curiosity if you're on your journey or or haven't started your journey, you know, ask some questions and and and get after it. But we're here to answer anything, uh, so we're here and uh, you know, take any of that. But that's all I got.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:03

I mean, I can have some fun with some science real quick. So I read I read about Newberg. Have you heard about Andrew Newberg? So he is a neuroscientist who studies uh the effects of spiritualism. So when people lean in and do those things, and so he found out there's a study you can go look it up where he found out did I write it all down in my notes?

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:25

Is it the one like the number of times you read the Bible? I saw that one where it's like one to three.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:31

This was separate. This was totally separate. Anyway, he he he would study different people who are in prayer, and he saw that the their frontal cortex would actually change, like the neural synapses in their brain would actually change. And so he wrote a book called Uh God That Rewires the Mind. And so it's very interesting. So he did study, he has the neural images. I have it actually, the neural image in my phone, which actually is on here, but how I'd show you. But yeah, you can look it up, Andrew Newberg, and you'll see he has the different pictures of the brain actually changing and the synapses, the pathways changing in your brain and your frontal cortex after prayer and after praying so many times.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:11

That's awesome. Well, hopefully these are some good questions. It was ones I've struggled with personally. I tried to think of things that, you know, were hot topics or things that could help people. Hopefully it wasn't just all about me, but uh, you know, lifting up God and making sure people are getting taken care of. So hopefully this is helpful to some people. But that's all we got for now. We could definitely chat for two or three hours. But we'll call it on this one and uh hopefully see you on the next one. See ya later.