What Exile Taught Us About Identity, Family, And Courage

What if home isn’t a place you return to, but a strength you learn to carry? That’s the question we trace with Liz, whose life spans North Carolina and India, bridge-building across cultures—and then surviving an unlawful detention that forced her family into hiding before they made it back to Colorado. Her new memoir, Home in Exile, turns lived crisis into hard-won clarity about faith, belonging, and the courage to speak when silence protects the powerful.

We get honest about the shape of faith under pressure. Liz describes how exile did not erase identity; it refined it, pushing her toward practices that grounded her body and mind: prayer, scripture, counseling, and the quiet discipline of journaling. We also look squarely at the politics that target communities, from Hindu nationalism to the erosion of press freedom, and how “polite” silence can become complicity. Yet the heart of this conversation is hope—how grace steadies a nervous system, keeps bitterness from rooting, and opens space to heal without losing sight of truth.

Family runs through every scene as both refuge and responsibility. From late-night conversations to early-morning prayers, Liz shows how a shared spiritual life can rebuild what fear fractured. We talk about dignity over ideology, finding common ground across difference, and the small glimmers that signal you’re still held: a baby’s laugh in a grocery aisle, a break of sun through clouds, a double rainbow after a brutal week. If you feel displaced in faith, family, or identity, you’ll leave with simple first steps to re-anchor—start small, tell the truth, and protect each other’s humanity.

Listen for a powerful reading from Home in Exile, vivid moments from the night of detention, and a reminder that freedom is a gift that calls for courage. If this conversation moved you, subscribe, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so others can find their way back to solid ground.

Transcript

Welcome And Episode Framing

SPEAKER_00 0:23

It's good to have you back. I'm your host, Nate Shear, and this is Mind Force, a podcast that's sponsored by the three L's Love, Life, and Learning. Here we have real conversations about meaning, resilience, and becoming grounded when life shakes your foundation. Today's episode sets at the crossroads of belief, belonging, and a good story. Faith as an anchor when certainty disappears, family as both refuge and responsibility, and Liz's memoir, Home in Exile: a lived story of identity, displacement, and coming home in unexpected ways. This one isn't theory, this is lived experience. Liz, welcome to the show. Go ahead and say hi to everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Hey everyone. It's good to be here. Thanks for having me, Nate.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Absolutely. For those meeting you for the first time, who are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Okay, that's that's a loaded question we're starting with. I'd say at my core, I'm a person who loves building bridges and seeing human connectedness. That passion that's earned me many labels through the course of my lifetime. Entrepreneur, humanitarian, scholar, advocate, and now author with the release of my memoir, Home in Exile. But as you read Home in Exile, you'll see that the roles I value most are those of wife, daughter, mother, and sister. So yeah, that's a brief introduction. I've worked with marginalized communities for several decades. And after facing deeply personal upheavals, I wrote Home in Exile to explore just how one finds a sense of home and grace and faith, even when life continues to be this unfolding, ongoing journey. So I think your listeners will connect with that honest search for a grounded life. Yeah, I'll talk about family, family, which can give us a sense of refuge, and at the same time, it brings a sense of responsibility. So home and exile is essentially an exploration of how loss and belonging are part of uncovering one's identity in motion of leaving, of losing, and then ultimately realizing a different kind of home, a different sense of home.

Cross-Cultural Roots And Bridge Building

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Awesome. That's a good foundation. Where did your journey begin? Where did my journey begin as the story and writing the book and things like that? Where did uh the foundation from this come from?

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Really, it's my entire life story. I start out from the time I was born in North Carolina and then going back and forth between the United States and India and juggling that cross-cultural way of being and how that multiculturalism impacted me and how I see the world and some of those necessary bridges that need to be built at a time like this that we're experiencing globally. It's my entire life story shared with as much vulnerability as I could muster up.

Why Write Now: From Crisis To Healing

SPEAKER_00 3:34

That's awesome. Yeah, sounds like a really good book. I feel like a lot of people say, I want to write a book, that'd be cool. What actually led you, or what was that final step where you're like, I'm I'm gonna do this?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

You know, Nate, it was when the dust kind of settled. It was it was a very cataclysmic event that had taken place August of 2024. 2024 when when I was detained with my family. Four out of six of us are US citizens. And it was we were detained without a warrant. It was illegal at my parents' home in Madhya Pradesh Dhammo. And you know, God brought us out of that. Our prayer is that a lot of people who are going through things like that, God will bring them out of it in the miraculous way that he brought our family through. But, you know, we went through a time of kind of being underground, safe, reevaluating. When my husband and children and I, we finally we were some of the first ones to make it back to the United States and be back in our home in Colorado. That's when I felt like I needed to do this for my own healing. And if it turned out to be cathartic for somebody else, as I process my sense of identity and belonging, that's just an added blessing.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Were you able to do a lot of processing and, you know, being able to process your thoughts and things like that through through the process of writing?

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Yeah, it you know, a lot of the writing started out with journaling. Cause right when we got back to the United States, there are so many abrupt changes, so many things that we had to process through and reevaluate that, you know, you can't undermine the importance of professional counseling. We're surrounded by a wonderful community that stood with us in solidarity. Thankfully, you know, after a few weeks after we returned back, my parents and siblings were here as well. And I write about that in the book as well. What a celebration that was. Much healing that brought in our sense of family and safety and home. But yeah, um, it's a powerful thing when there's a stirring in your heart and words follow. And that for me, that turned into a book that's out there now.

Journaling, Counseling, And Community

SPEAKER_00 6:09

That's awesome. Yeah. It seems like a wonderful way to be able to process thoughts and get them out. A lot of different people on the show have mentioned journaling. It's it's interesting how different themes come up. We see a lot of breathing, meditation, devotion, journaling comes up quite a bit from completely different walks of life and completely different people. Well, Liz, before we get too much deeper, I'd like to keep this a two-way conversation. What's a question you have for me?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Okay, since we're already talking about this and just looking at the nature of your podcast, I've I couldn't help but wonder if you've experienced a time in your life when faith became when faith became an anchor. At a time certainty disappeared, but faith became your anchor. Can you share?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yeah. Absolutely. So I think currently, right now, my faith is probably the strongest that it's been. I'm active duty military. So we move all the time or we're going different places. And so I think this one has really solidified like all the different moves and picking up the family and going through so many different uncertainties. There's so many things that you don't really think about. A lot of them are pretty small, but they really add up. So we just moved to the United Kingdom after living in Florida for a year. And before that, well, actually 11 months technically in Florida. And before that, we lived in Japan. And so living in different countries and doing different things, it's always difficult to register the car and pay taxes and just all the things that come along with moves. So I think, you know, being rooted and grounded in faith and going to church and having Bible study and small group and just having other people to know that you know you're going to get through it and be able to press on. And obviously, having God is that larger foundation where you know you're going to get through it and you just have to press on because with all those changes, they pack up your house and move all your stuff. You lose everything for three months and then you get it later. And so there's a lot of difficult times where the house is empty and you know you don't have anything. And so it's a really difficult time. It's awesome to get out of travel and go to other countries, not downplaying it too much because it is really cool to be able to travel. But to your point, there's so much uncertainty and learning new rules and things you can say and don't say. And so there's a lot of different things to learn along the way. So really enjoying it, but I think that foundation in faith really helps you know that like you'll get through the things that seem kind of difficult as all these small things kind of add up.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

That's a lot of transitions that you've been through in a short amount of time.

Host’s Faith Amid Military Moves

SPEAKER_00 8:43

The one in Florida, we were unpacking the house from Japan when they said, Oh, well, we need you to go to United Kingdom. And so then it was like almost you put it right back in the box again. So that was a little weird one. Normally we are three or four years. Uh that one was a little out of the ordinary. So 11 quick months in Florida, and then someone who was out here that needed help. So But yeah, we'll transition into your three main pillars, Liz. Your first one is faith. And so I guess I'll flip the question right back to you. Was there a season where your faith was tested more by silence than struggle?

SPEAKER_02 9:14

I think it's an ongoing season, Nate. And you could probably relate to this because with all the changes you're talking about, when there's so many transitions, it's it's easy to forget things that sometimes we need to hold on to and and not know the difference between what needs to be remembered, what must never be forgotten, and what we need to let go of. Right? So I think it's an ongoing season of reflection, of processing, and just healing from the upheaval. My family and I, we got to see that exile, it doesn't erase identity, it doesn't erase faith, it just refines it. Exile can become the very ground where there's a truer sense, a healthier sense of home, where a healthier sense of home is born. And so understanding of faith in the midst of all that, it's a big part for me. It's understanding grace, because you can probably relate to this. When we're going through transitions, we need to give ourselves a lot of grace and we need to give the people who are going through those transitions with us, especially when it comes to family, need to give a lot of grace. So I think understanding of faith, it changes when one's understanding of grace changes.

Silence, Grace, And Life In Exile

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah. It's a good good reminder for sure. I know, like we move, like I said, from Japan and then over to the United Kingdom. And there's certain things that are similar. There's a JCI, which is like an inspection on your car in Japan, and then in the UK, it's called MOT. It's another like inspection on your car. So there's certain things we thought we kind of understood. You're like, oh, that's kind of like this, but then it's sort of like it, then it's not. And so you feel like you're kind of like gaining ground, and like you said, then you mess something up because you think you know kind of what you're doing, and then you my wife will get kind of frustrated, like, oh, I should have known or whatnot. So that's a good reminder of you know the grace. Different place, different country, you know, you're trying your best. You're not trying to, you know, do anything that you're not supposed to. And so just just take it with a little grain of mercy and grace along the way. I think that's definitely important.

Living On Alert And The Need For Safety

Detention Night And Viral Proof

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Climate changes, lifestyle changes, you know, phrases that seemed familiar, now they mean something different, and you're you're in a different time zone. So I think grace allows you a space to breathe and be. Yeah, I I've seen minorities in India kind of like what I shared with you before we started recording, even they're people living constantly on high alert. Essentially in a state of fear. You know, when we're talking about life transitions, we go through it and we feel the sense of alertness in a different way. Like I said, you know, alertness towards all the newness that surrounds us. But when I'm who are constantly living on high alert and in a state of fear, these are people, like whether we're talking about religious minorities or women's safety, India is constantly ranked as one of the most unsafe countries. But to grow as healthy people, we need that space to breathe. We need that space to be, we need that space of and constant redefining of what grace means for us and the people around us in that moment that allows us to ground ourselves, knowing that because we have God and we have each other, we're covered. So we can finally take a deep breath and regulate one's nervous system in the midst of everything. Oh, but then, you know, I think when I think of what Hindu nationalism has created, it's this threat state, the static that keeps especially Christian leaders for from being fully grounded in a safe present moment, which we all need. So unfortunately, religion in India it has become so politicized that it's no longer about connection to the divine, but it has become this outlet of creating social divides. So that being even being able to articulate that, that is why the grace of Christ is so refreshing and so necessary to bring healing, not just to us as individuals, but to bring healing to that land and to that culture that's so rich, you know, because Jesus was never about these weird religious, political, social labels. He was about deeply caring for individuals he touched. But to see that grace, you know, be blinded from it, people need to be able to look at the world with a lens of healing instead of this chip on their shoulders, a lens of hurt. You know, when I think of painful memories, it isn't easy to find peace and forgiveness around those memories if I don't allow myself to find a space where I can be fully grounded in a safe present moment to know that the people who are my loved ones, the people who are my family, that they will give me that grace, that they will allow that space. And that has to be away from the chaos and clutter that has sadly clouded India right now. We had to get away from all that, you know. Uh when I often think back to the night of August 6, 2024 in Dhamma Madhapradesh, like I said, my parents' house in India when the police illegally detained us, it was state order detention. And you know, four out of six of us, like I said, we were US citizens. It could have been a moment of helplessness, but at a time when, you know, we could have felt like we don't know who to turn to. God's presence did show up in big ways in the midst of events like that. And that's just one example. Those moments that can crush people, but instead God's presence is that unexplainable, empowering grace. You know, some of the videos of what we experienced, the local media was covering it, and some of those videos went viral. And you can see that even in those moments, God gifted us with his spirit-led peace and strength. And that kind of faith, it doesn't just comfort, but that's what I think allowed our fear to be transformed into hope, even in moments when we didn't have answers. You know, that continues to be my prayer for every person persecuted under this Hindu nationalism that has been created under Prime Minister Narendra Modi's leadership, that they would they would encounter the power of Christ's presence and be overcome by this understanding of how desperately we need the grace of Christ, regardless of what background we come from or what labels we put on each other or what we're going through in life.

Freedom, Responsibility, And Speaking Up

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Definitely, definitely makes sense. It's interesting. It reminds me I get to, you know, in uniform at work, I get to grab my Bible off my desk and walk over to the building next door, and we we meet for a weekly Bible study every Wednesday at 1230. And my opening and closing prayer, if I ever get the chance, is that I'm just so thankful during that time where we only meet for 30 minutes, but I have the ability and the freedom to walk across the street, and you know, I'm not fearful, I'm not afraid, I'm not meeting in secret, I'm not secret codes or anything, able to just do that openly and freely. And I know there's other, a lot of other places in the world where you have to, you know, really be tougher and have extra faith to really get through some of those difficult situations. I feel very blessed, almost guilty, where like I get to just do this, but that 30-minute window in the middle of the week is just so recharging. And you were talking about like foundation, and you just feel grounded and you know, seeing other members of the body of Christ, brothers and sisters there for that 30 minutes, you know, no matter how the week is going, you know, you feel better, you feel real ch recharged, and you get to go about the rest of your week. But I just, yeah, I can't really wrap my head around or imagine not being able to do some of those things. Uh, you know, I'm American, so I get that protection. And now currently in the UK, still freedom. I mean, so both, luckily, these countries allow, you know, that. So that's that's super difficult.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Yeah, and and it is a privilege when you've seen the other side, you know, you realize what a privilege that is. And then we're told that with privilege comes responsibility. You know, so at a time like right now, where there is erosion of judicial independence, where there is suppression of freedom of press in India, where there is use of state power against Christians and Muslims, where there is centralization of power under Modi, and there is growing weaponization of nationalism and religion under Modi's government. So at a time like this, understanding what a privilege it is, the freedom that I have to celebrate my faith the way I can in the United States, and understanding grace and the responsibility that comes towards my brothers and sisters around the world, that's an ongoing pursuit. You know, with with me personally, and I explore this in the book, I feel like I feel like I heal from trauma. And then we hear of another innocent Christ follower behind bars in this fascist land. You know, these are people I've personally held dear and I've known they're faithful to who God has called them to be. They're kind of like salt of the earth kind of people. So at a time when these things are going on, healing and grace and understanding responsibility at the same time, balancing it all. That's an ongoing process of naming injustice, holding on to truth, to God's promises, and sometimes learning to forgive, even when I don't know if reconciliation is possible. You know, that's that's a our faith and grace, it doesn't always make pain disappear. Sometimes it makes people like me, my parents, and other Indian Christians realize that because of God's grace, we can courageously face what's broken and keep loving without illusion, even when we may not be getting the answers we really need to see right now.

Family As Refuge And Identity

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah, that's tough. Like how it boiled down in the Bible love love and love your neighbor, you know. I think there's a lot of rules and people get hung up in a lot of different things, but if you can't remember anything else, just remember those two. And, you know, that second one, helping others, I think that's awesome. You're trying to, you know, help from that level of responsibility. Well, Liz, you mentioned family multiple different times. So your second pillar is family. How did family shape your sense of safety and identity growing up?

Home As A Safe Space To Breathe

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Well, you know, I'm blessed. I feel like I'm blessed with the best family. Family was always there to rejoice, to mourn. There was always a sense of togetherness. Um, or there was my parents or grandparents, siblings, and now with my husband and children, you know, there's this legacy of holding on to faith and service while being there for each other. You know, so safety and identity, they've always been rooted in not only togetherness, but also in understanding how God wants us to exist in this world through his word. The Bible is where we find God's promises, you know. Even growing up, when I was little with my parents and siblings, and now with my husband and kids, we take time to have those meaningful moments when we gather together and we realize that you know, sometimes scripture doesn't always promise fewer afflictions, but God does promise us deeper deliverances. So, you know, like I think of Psalm 34, you know, it says, Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all. Knowing that we have each other, that there are other people that are standing there with us who understand, who are there standing with us in solidarity. God has used all of that. To shape our sense of safety and identity.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Yeah, it's definitely true. I think a lot of times people that are, you know, non-Christians and whatnot think that it's going to be all easy and rosy and things like that. That's definitely not what it says. You know, sometimes you've got to build character or do other things. But the one thing he does say is he will be there beside us, like the story of the footsteps in the sand. You know, he will be there through the difficult times. That's the most important thing to stay grounded on, you know. Won't be perfect, won't be easy. That was never promised, but he will be there with us through all those things. You mentioned a lot of transitions and a lot of changes. So what does home mean inside a family where everything else is a little unsettled?

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Even when things are feeling unsettled, I think a sense of home means unconditional respect, acceptance, like I said before, a safe space to breathe and be that we help create for each other. So yeah, the world may feel unsettled or unsettling, but home is a place where we find that grounding that we always seek God's covering and protection over that grounding because that's I think that's what's given us resilience to reevaluate and rebuild, find grace again despite the frustration and anger.

Reading From Home In Exile

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Yeah, that makes sense. Was there a time where family became a little more complicated during your story of exile?

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Yes, I write about it. Is it okay if I read a little bit from my book?

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Absolutely.

Beyond Labels: Dignity Over Ideology

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Because I write about that. I write about how fascism it uncovers some truths that are hard to swallow. And it reveals who's really there for you and who'll stay quiet. So I'll I'll read. The chaos caused by those with fascist tendencies forced us to confront uncomfortable truths about people we considered our own. We had to choose between passive acceptance and active resistance. It's tempting to believe that being peaceful, being passive is the Christ-like way to respond, but too often that's just an excuse to hide one's own insecurities, a defense mechanism against the feeling of helplessness. Yes, God fights on our behalf, but he also works through people like my father and mother, people who refuse to back down, who courageously stand on the front lines when the battle demands it. As the days unfolded, we began to rebuild, not just across borders, but within ourselves. We rebuild through early morning prayers, through late night conversations, where the trauma cracked open and the light slowly bled in. We rebuilt by naming our pain without shame. We rebuilt by refusing to let bitterness take root. What became clearer in the aftermath of the storm was not just who harmed us, but who remained silent. Silence is rarely neutral. Too often it is the mask that fear wears while pretending to be polite. The quiet indifference of those who looked away when my father's name was being slandered. The way some leaders, men who once preached about justice, turned their backs when it came with a cost. Their silence was louder than any accusation, and yet this too became a revelation. Fascism does not rise only through brute force, it rises through the soft complicity of those who value comfort over conscience, through small betrayals, a missed signature, a hushed conversation, a refusal to speak up or show up until the structure of integrity begins to crumble. In exile, you begin to see more clearly who showed up and who stayed silent, whose allegiance was to truth and whose was to comfort. Fascism does not flourish because of strong men alone. It grows in the soil of silence of people who chose personal peace over prophetic courage. And yet, even as we mourn the betrayals of leaders who should have spoken and did not, for kin who turned away, we also bore witness to a different kind of miracle. Strangers knelt in prayer across continents. Journalists risked backlash to report the truth. Ordinary people, teachers, priests, students stood up when those in power shrank back. It was as though in the face of cruelty something ancient had been awakened, a deeper call, a fiercer love.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Yeah, thank you for reading that uh allowed us to get into the book a little bit. And your final pillar is the home in exile. So that was a great foundation you were able to lay there. One question I had about the book, what do you hope readers feel or confront when they close the last page?

SPEAKER_02 27:39

I hope readers see that, you know, while I'm sharing my narrative, I'm trying to understand the narrative of those who cause that pain as well. And it is the grace of Christ that allows me to do that. That was the cathartic part of writing. So I I hope people find healing in seeing that.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

So through that, that helps you kind of process. I think you kind of touched on it, but I just wanted to expand a little bit. It doesn't erase the things that happen, right? It just allows you to kind of process what happened in the past.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

And and and find empathy and grace because at the end of the day, you know, we're all just protecting what we love. Those people who came against my parents and my family, those people who are coming against, you know, people of integrity who are Christians and Muslims in India. You know, those Hindu, those so-called Hindu nationalists, they are protecting their version of India, even though that goes against democratic values, even with the pain that's caused me and my family, in their own way, they are protecting what they love while I'm protecting what I love. The way we go about doing that, it looks different because each one of us reflects the God we worship, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

So yeah, I hope people see those truths unveiling as they read.

First Steps For The Displaced

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yeah, I think that's a tough thing too. We see a lot of times, even in the United States, uh, politics is just seems so divisive right now. It seems like it's red or blue or donkey or elephant or, you know, who you voted for. And, you know, there's bigger, more important things to be worrying about, you know, staying focused on the Lord and other things. But it is just so interesting how we grew up one way and we have to stay that way. And I think it's kind of sad because we're more alike than we are different, but for some reason we'll take these minor differences and then use it to drive apart. Like you're saying, you know, you're we're all trying to do what we believe is right. And if we could just find more common ground, I think we could kind of move forward and work through some of these things, but we want to, you know, find the differences and like kind of exploit them. So I mean, I think the devil does, right? So wants to drive us apart and farther apart, break up families and make things more difficult. But really, you know, we should be able to find common ground in a lot of different cases. We all have families, we all have kids, we all have things like we want to do and protect and take care of, and that's what should be important.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

Yeah, and and you know, there's like behind this mask of protecting some ideology, you don't do that at the cost of another human being's dignity. You know? I think that's the difference that people need to see when they're fighting for whatever they think it is that they love. You know, so these labels that these human labels that we give so much importance to, understanding that if I'm calling myself a Christ follower, Jesus was never about those labels. You know, he was he's a practicing Jew who called out religious leaders and their hypocrisy, and he wanted us all to draw closer to God. It was never about these humanly created labels or you know, upholding some ideology. So at the end of the day, overly politicizing things that are very human issues, that's never helpful.

Where To Find The Book And Farewell

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah, I'm going through the Bible right now. Me and my wife are going through a Bible study, and one of the things we're coming up on is Exodus and the Israelites leaving Egypt. And some people have said, like, oh, well, it was, you know, a racial thing or whatnot, but that was the people that he used to, you know, expand and things like that. So it was interesting, like going through and learning more and hearing what other people were saying. It wasn't that at all. It was just, you know, that was the people that he happened to use. He was more about loving each other and taking care of the neighbor and whatnot. There was not a spin on a specific type of people. I think sometimes in the Christian world from the outside, they're seen as selective. There's certain rules and things we have to do, of course, but like there was never Jesus never wanted selective, right? He wanted to take care of everyone. He was washing feet, he was taking care of prostitutes and everything in between. I mean, if you look at even the disciples, a lot of them were undesirable careers and things like that. So definitely not to push people away to pull people together. Well, Liz, you had three wonderful pillars. I'd like to try to bring them all together. So faith, family, and then your memoir. If someone feels displaced right now in their faith, family, or identity, what first step would help them find it again?

SPEAKER_02 32:30

I don't know if there are certain steps for that apply to everybody, Nate. You know, I think there are like different people going through different circumstances will have different answers to that. Or me, I always say it was holding on to glimmers of hope in the midst of all the chaos, whatever it was, whether it was something as small as going through the grocery store and hearing a baby's giggles. And, you know, I can never forget when we came back to Colorado that same week. We saw, you know, at a time when I didn't know when my parents were safe or when they were going to be able to come back to the U.S. And we kept on holding on to prayer and our faith. We saw double rainbows multiple times that week. And and witnessing that with my husband and children. So finding, trying to find those glimmers of whole wherever that may be for you, that was my starting point and getting away.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

That's pretty amazing. Yeah, find those small things. I think we always want big signs and you know, big, elaborate, but that's good. I like that, you know, find the little things. I love when there's like the cloud layer and the the sun rays kind of shoot through it. There's just something about that always makes me think of God and how powerful and you know how precisely he put things together. I've also been skydiving and scuba diving and lots of different things. And being in the wonders of nature, just you know, an intelligent, awesome creator put it all together. Well, Liz, thanks for your honesty, your courage, and heart in sharing the story, writing it for other people that may need it. Where can listeners find your book and connect with your with you more?

SPEAKER_02 34:12

I think you have the link to my author page. I'm not big on social media, but um I would love for check out the book and check out the author page and to hear from as many readers as I can.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Good stuff. We will get it in the show note notes and then also the short clips and make sure you're able to click on it and check it out. Well, to everyone listening, thanks for being here and leaning into this wonderful conversation. I love you all. See ya.