What If Your Next Breakthrough Feels Like Panic w/ Natasha Skolny

Pressure doesn’t just test your leadership, it reveals what you’re anchored to. When HR is balancing leaders, employees, and nonstop change, it’s easy to become the person who “holds it together” for everyone while quietly losing yourself. We sit down with leadership coach Natasha Skolney to talk about the moment resentment shows up, why it usually points to values drift, and how self-leadership brings you back to integrity.

We get practical about self-awareness and emotional intelligence at work: the subtle signs you’re missing your impact, why “rough around the edges” often translates into avoidable harm, and how to give feedback without spiraling into conflict avoidance. Natasha also shares how fear tends to appear right before growth, plus a simple way to separate real risk from mind-made fear by tracing the belief underneath. If your body goes straight to fight, flight, or freeze, we cover nervous system tools like box breathing to help you think clearly when it counts.

Then we zoom out to teamwork and communication. Great goals fail when teams skip the basics: trust, norms, working styles, accountability, and honest conversation. When those foundations are set, alignment gets easier and performance follows.

If you want more influence, better team dynamics, and a calmer inner game, this one is for you. Subscribe to Mind Force, share it with a teammate, and leave a review, what value are you committed to living this week?

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Transcript

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Welcome And Three Pillars

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Howdy, everyone. As always, it's wonderful to have you back. I'm your host, Nate Shear, and this is Mind Force, the podcast sponsored by the three L's Love, Life, and Learning. Today's conversation is about how you grow as an individual and how you win with others. Our three pillars today will be self-awareness, overcoming fear, and working together as a team to achieve real goals. This isn't about personal development. This is how you show up when it counts with yourself and the people around you. Natasha, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Thanks so much for having me, Nate.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Absolutely. For those meeting you for the first time, who are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

I am a leadership coach. I am someone who is constantly growing, thriving, challenging myself, challenging my own perspectives. I have a family. I have two kids at home that are growing up. They're eight and 10. And we're just we're having fun enjoying life. And so I work a lot with women in HR because my background's in HR too. And I've gone through a lot of trying to take care of everyone else and forgetting on how to take care of myself throughout the whole process. And so a lot of the work that I do is about helping to teach people in HR on

Coaching HR Women Through Change

SPEAKER_00 1:53

how to do that and helping teams to connect better to themselves. And so essentially they can connect better with each other.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

That's awesome. Yeah. Perfect fit for the show. Always learning. That's all we really want to do here on the show. So what are you focused on right now?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Right now, I actually work with women in HR who are exploring what their next chapter is, exploring how they can grow and have more influence across the organization. The interesting piece right now is there's so much that's changing right now in our environment, like constantly going through ups and downs in like organizations making money, losing money, a political environment right now of everything that's going on. There's just so much that's influencing the dynamics of trying to figure out how to move forward. And in HR, you're working with balancing like what's going on with the organization, what's going on with our leaders, what's going on with our employees. And all the time you're going, okay, well, how can I, how can I regulate myself? How am I experiencing all of this too? And so the leadership piece comes into play because going in, and I mean, I've experienced this, having gotten taught how to be an HR professional, you get taught how to take care of everyone else, but you don't get taught how to understand what's really important to you and how are you reacting when you're under stress and under pressure. And when the organization is going through a change, how are you supporting yourself while you're supporting everyone else around you? And so there's this disconnect there that I've created this program that I help HR women go through that supports them in understanding this for themselves. And so that's where a lot of my energy is. And I've seen so much shift because of that intentional focus on helping them understand what are my values, what's really important to me? What do I want to, where do I want to go? Why do I care about that? And that really pissed me off. Why am I pissed off about that? What's going on? So it's just really getting more clear about self-leadership so that they can have more of an impact and influence across the company.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

That's awesome. Yeah, I can't imagine all the changes. It's so wild. We looked at recent history, we had COVID and rules that applied to that and shut down the world. I'm in healthcare myself as a hospital administrator and also in the military. So the military, I feel like, is almost brand new every year, different rules and challenges and requirements. And healthcare has its own sets of rules and requirements that are constantly changing. So, oh, HR, you know, COVID, uh, virtual work, 2026, so many different things that are going on where the, the, like you said, the environment is constantly changing. So that must be really interesting. I'm curious, what experiences pushed you towards this work around awareness, fear, and teamwork? Do you have any personal experiences?

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Oh, yeah. I definitely do. I so I shared, I have two kids at home. I'm married. I was working in this really great job about three years ago now. And I remember being at a point where I was questioning everything that I was doing. It was like I was, I had succeeded to the point where I had gotten to the job that I really wanted to be in. And I was frustrated. I was overwhelmed. I was doing so many things for everyone else. And I was getting resentful and I wasn't showing up as myself. And I was just like, I was angry. And I was teaching all of these leaders about how to be great leaders, and these are all the things that you need to do. And then I personally was feeling like, who am I to even say all of this? Because I feel like I'm not leading my family. I feel like I'm not being a great friend. I feel like I'm not showing up well with the people at work that I work with. And I had this moment, this realization where I was like, I'm not in integrity with myself, with the work that I'm doing. And integrity is so important to me. How,

Self-Regulation Under Workplace Pressure

SPEAKER_00 6:08

how can this change? Like, what is it that I need to do? And that point, I realized one, I'm not living out my values, and that's something that I preach. And how am I not doing that for myself? So I took a step back and I decided I was going to invest in my own coaching. I was going to invest in my own leadership development. I really wanted to understand what was creating this resentment internally for me and how what changes I needed to make for it to shift. And along went that journey for me. And I started taking more ownership over the things that I was doing because I realized at that point, okay, I have a decision. I can sit here and say all of these things are all happening to me. And I'm angry at this person for doing this, and I'm angry at my husband for this, and I'm angry that my kids aren't doing this, and I'm angry that I haven't gotten recognized for like all of these things. I can sit there and point fingers, or I can decide that I actually can take responsibility and I can make choices and I can move myself forward through that. And so I decided on that path. And suddenly I started making choices and decisions that were aligned to me, to the things that I wanted. And everything started to fall into place after that. So that was the realization where I was like, this work is so important and so critical to our own under like level of happiness that we have to do more of this for ourselves. And how lost I got in the mix of trying to live up to everyone else's expectations when it was like, no, Natasha, you've really just you've forgotten who you are. You've forgotten how this comes back to you. And you get to create a life that is designed on your own terms. And I just needed that little push to get myself there.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah, it reminds me. Have you ever heard of Kerwin Ray? He's an Australian. He has since passed away, but he does consulting, kind of like a Simon Sinique type guy. And uh he's one video that I love. He's like, everything is your fault. And he obviously like continues after that. But I think a lot of times, like you said, like, well, them and this, and it's like, no, no, you have to make the change and and whatnot. And it's also interesting. Today I was in a briefing where they were going over moral injury, which is very interesting. So something where you have a specific moral or your guiding compass or something, and it gets off, and then you start to hurt yourself as you go along. So really reminded me of that and kind of aligned with that. You said that you had that integrity that you needed to do something, and you were getting farther and farther away. So it's kind of exactly what we talked about today. Like you just keep kind of injuring yourself. So, like on the show here, we try to go over mental things. I think a lot of times we're so comfortable with the physical, but your your mental body, your brain, and your mental well-being is a part of your bodies. I'm glad you kind of brought that up and kind of separating a little bit and going astray, that moral injury or losing that kind of integrity along the way. Well, Natasha, before we get too much deeper, I'm flipping the mic. What's a question you've always wanted to ask the host?

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Hmm. What's one of your most important values that you live out every day?

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Ooh, most important. I think I would say boy, I had like three different pop in my head. I'm trying to think of the best one. I think my biggest one would be like taking care of others or whatever that is. There's something inside of me. I'm super happy go lucky and pretty easygoing, but I have a few pet peeves. Like if someone's like taking something heavy to the trash or like they're doing something, and someone just looks at them like,

Resentment As A Values Warning

SPEAKER_01 9:53

oh, it just drives me nuts. Like grab the door or do something. Like, you don't even have to know who they are. Like, just help a little bit. I think that's something that just drives me up the wall. Like at work, we talk about like I'm not saying everyone has to be your best friend, but if someone like needs something or calls on you, you have to show up. Like in the military, we deploy, we stay late, a lot of things different happen. Like, you need to be able to pick up someone's dog and get them to the house or or do something. I would be able to pick up kids, you know, maybe that's a little far for certain people, but we have to be there for each other. So I don't know what exactly attribute or how to classify that, but like being there for others is does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 10:33

I love that. Yeah. I hear I hear accountability, I hear ownership, I hear community, I hear all of these, yeah, really great, great pieces. And you know what I love about just even understanding or asking that question is like a simple question like that. I know so much more about you now. You know, like it just it opens up this portal to seeing someone from for who they are. And I think the more that we can ask people about, you know, how is it that your values are being demonstrated or how are you living them out every day? It's just an easy connector to to bring into conversations and to to connect with people around you.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

And we're so much more alike than we are different, like with the current political climate of the last couple of years where red versus blue and donkey and elephant, and just like one, I kind of wish we'd get rid of that whole thing and we'd go mass singer with it, but but it's just crazy to me that like we try to divide and say, well, if you're not on my side, you're against me. You can have all sorts of different views. Like I don't know, just kind of wild to me. I think we should be all in it together. My personal opinion is you should take a 10 question buzzfeed question and then it just locks your candidate in, and then you're stuck because uh I don't know. I think if you pick the top 10 things, like guns, abortion, military, whatever they are, and like you vote on those, and then it just locks whoever that person is. And then I think a lot of people would be shocked or probably mad, like, no, I didn't want that. I'm like, no, that's what you voted for.

unknown 12:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

It's well, it's it's interesting too, because like even your point about we're more similar than we are different. That is exactly the type of conversations that come out in my team sessions that I do. So when I have like teams who are working in silos or they're like not communicating with each other and they're kind of butting heads when they're running into a challenge, or they're not focused on the same goal that they're heading towards. Whenever I have any of these problems and I'm talking to them and we become human beings and we talk about our values and we talk the things that are important, suddenly everyone goes, Oh, actually, those things don't seem so hard anymore because now I know who you are and you're actually very similar to who I am, and we're all experiencing a lot of this together. So it's just it's interesting that the more that we can bring the humanity to the conversations, the more we realize this doesn't need to be that hard. We can move forward and get there when we acknowledge that we're all actually in this together.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Yeah, it's interesting. On the show, I've seen a trend where people don't ask for help or feel awkward because they think they're the only ones. I'm like, there's eight billion people. There's there's no way you have done the only time that's ever happened. Like someone's invented something, and maybe that's like the the exception to the rule. But unless you've like invented something brand new or something like that, you're probably not the first one to ever been through something difficult.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

So No. Especially like it relates to fear too, and when we're all experiencing fear in some way, right? And it's just bringing to light the the angle of the fear that it's coming up with, but then you realize, oh my gosh, yeah, that's scary to me too. Okay, why are we both in our own ways being scared about something when we could actually talk to each other and support each other through it?

SPEAKER_01 13:51

So yeah. We're all just trying to get through life together. Well, Natasha, pillar number one is self-awareness. What are some signs someone lacks self-awareness but just doesn't know?

SPEAKER_00 14:04

That's a great question. One of the ways that you can tell is if they're really frustrating other people and continuing to do things exactly the same way that they've always done it and just don't care because they're there's that ha so I'll give you some context. I've worked with very senior leaders who have moved up the corporate ladder and have been promoted, and they are creating this ripple effect of people who are really frustrated with their leadership approach on how they direct on what how work needs to get done. And they tend to be people who are fairly assertive and driven and want to get results. And what I've

A Simple Values Question That Bonds

SPEAKER_00 15:03

seen is the lack of openness to, yeah, but what you say or the decisions that you say are actually having an impact on these people over here in this way. And there's another way that you can say it, or there's a different technique that you can use to get people more bought in, and they they refuse to do it, or they refuse to look at it from that angle. And there's no but like there's no reason, in my opinion, as to why they would want to do it because they've already gotten promoted, they've already got the role, they've already got the thing. And so what's worked before has gotten them to where they are today. Why would they look any different? And so I would definitely start to see signs of what is the influence or the engagement of the people around you on how much they want to follow you, on how eager they are to step in and do something for you. And if you're not getting those types of results, then chances are you need to open your eyes to like how you're speaking to people, how you're communicating, like what you're saying, how you're doing it, how you're involving them, how you're empowering them, all of those pieces that are gonna give you signs as to what might need to get shifted in your own, in your own awareness.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Yeah, that makes sense. What's your thought on when people say, oh, they're just a little rough around the edges?

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Some some people, I mean, I kind of go back to everyone has a choice on how they want to show up. And some people have more motivation to grow and shift and adjust their style because they're the results on what they're working towards just are bigger than that. And some people are like, I'm just happy the way I am. You don't like it, too bad. Like that's just that's how things are. And I have met both types of people. And so I think at the end of the day, it just comes back to what is it that you really want to do to shift the bar in one direction or other. And how is that gonna influence how successful or where you're heading to determine whether or not that's a motivator? So some people are just rough around the edges and they accept that and that's okay. But it just it really does depend if you want to get the results. I I I was in a session a few weeks back and it was on adjusting your communication style and learning more about the people that you're working with. And one person put up their hand and said, Natasha, like, I get this, I get all of this stuff, but can't they just come in and do their job? Like, can't we just like can that just be the expectation? And I don't want to do all of this other stuff. And so how do I how do I deal with this? And I I mean, it's an honest question, right? Like it it is work being a leader and that's the responsibility of being a leader too. So my question back to this person was why are you a leader? Like, what is it that you're getting out of it? And whatever you put out there is what you're gonna attract. So if you want to be a leader that is very task focused and you want people who are just gonna execute, then you're gonna bring people and attract people who are gonna do just that. If you want people who are engaged and excited and take ownership and feel like what they're doing has purpose and all of those things that I mean, I personally believe in are the reason why we do the things that we do, then you have to take the responsibility of getting to know them and putting in that effort, extra effort. So it's really up to them.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

That's funny. Yeah, I think that's another one of my pet peeves. If I did have one, I feel like we make excuses for people, which kind of drives me nuts. Like rough around the edges to me is like you're just rude and like we just want to cover it up. But I mean, I guess that's not always the case. So that's what it seems like. They're just a little, I'm like, they just need to work on some emotional intelligence. I don't, I don't know if it's just oh, that's just the way they are. Like to your point, I feel like the ones that are just that way don't want to change. I'm like, then they then they chose it. I don't know. It's kind of funny. There's another phrase I was trying to think of where people say, Oh, they're just a little abrasive, or they're like, no, that they're just kind of rude.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yeah. Yeah. And knowing like what's actually acceptable and what's not, because people we don't give feedback enough either. Like, what would be that wrong with saying, Nate, the way that you talk to me, I really didn't appreciate it. And I felt like that really that was frustrating to me. I put a lot of effort into the things I was doing, and when you said it like that, that really bothered me. Like, yeah there's not enough open conversations, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:59

About absolutely. Yeah, there's one from Simon Sinek that I thought was really good. He says you include the three things, what the person did, and specifically what they did, because a lot of people, you always, you never, like,

Spotting Self-Awareness Blind Spots

SPEAKER_01 20:13

no. Last Thursday, you said this. What impact it had on you? It made me feel this way. So they get to connect with you, and then what will happen if it continue? I will lose trust, I will not be able to come to you because you're continuing to do this, and then that's it. There's no like secret, there's not certain things to say, like say those three, and then you just let it be. And then if they choose to fix it, that hopefully they do. But if not, like you have said your piece, and then it is what it is. So I like that because I'm personally not a great confrontation person, but those uh framework, like I'm gonna tell you how it made me feel, and then like you can do what you want with it.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Absolutely. Yeah, sometimes we just need a little bit of like, hey, here are the here are a couple things to keep in mind when you're sharing this with the other person to get some confidence to be able to say something, especially if you're not used to it, or especially if you're not comfortable with confrontation as much as some other people are. Or if you're facing someone who is confrontational and you're the non-confrontational person, that's not that's not fun either. And so having that framework, the other piece is recognizing like what's happening in your body when you're responding to things like that. Because typically, if you're someone who doesn't like conflict, your heart starts racing a little bit more, you start getting a little bit more nervous about what you're saying. And so just recognizing why that might be coming up for you and giving yourself the tools to support slowing down your breath to calm your nervous system so that you can truly think clearly. So just having some of those tools together is a great technique to empower yourself to have those conversations.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, it's interesting. Today I was talking about that briefing and we talked about uh fight or flight or freeze. And so it's kind of interesting because we have all these things from like being caveman, wanting to like freeze so they don't see you if it's a bear or a saber-toothed tiger or something. But now it's like we're modern day, and so some of them make sense, and other ones like probably doesn't help anymore. But like you said, some good breathing techniques or finding ways to make that make sense, which I think is a good transition to pillar number two, which is over. Overcoming fear. Natasha, where does fear show up most in people trying to grow or lead?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Hmm. Fear shows up when you're about to do something incredible, when you're about to do something that is going to expand who you are, when all of those like little voices in your head that want to keep you small and the same because it's a protection mechanism, it seeing that fear, I almost look at it as like, oh, I'm on to something. Like, okay, I'm at the edge. Okay, I'm really scared, but I know there's something on the other side. So I just need to help myself get through it. And I mean, public speaking is probably one of my best examples because as a kid growing up in school, I was the quietest kid in the room. And every year on my report cards, it would come back and it would say, Natasha needs to speak up more in class, Natasha needs to say something more. And I was like quiet as a mouse. There was nothing that you can do. I wouldn't even participate and ask a question. If I had something, I was like the quietest kid ever. So if you ever told me back then that I would be on stages and I would be facilitating and I would be doing that right now, I'd say you were off your rocker. Like there's no way. And one of the things like that has progressed has been like we talked about feedback, but positive feedback. And I remember when I had gone through university, I had like gone into human resources, I was starting to dabble with understanding how to build learning programs for people. And I got my first, my first gig in having to facilitate an onboarding program for new leaders. And my background was in recruitment at the time. And I thought, okay, this is it. Like I can talk about my expertise and talk about the things that they need to do. Sure, I'll go and I'll speak to people about it. And I was in a room of leaders who were asking all these questions I had no idea how to answer. And so I went to my default of, okay, let's just have like a really good conversation about this. Let's change it. This doesn't have to be a formal thing. Let's talk about like what worked over here and what did you do over here and how did this, how did this work for you? And I left going, oh my gosh, there is I completely failed them. Like I did not do my job. I did not give them the information that they needed. And I walked back to my office and I had a voicemail from my manager at the time. And that manager said, and I saw the red light, and I was like, okay, this is not good. I she's gonna tell me how much I messed up. And she left me a voicemail and it said, Natasha, I know that you're heading home for the evening. And I just wanted to leave this to you before you got home because I watched you facilitate today. And I've never seen one someone facilitate to that level as someone who's

Feedback Frameworks For Tough Talks

SPEAKER_00 25:33

brand new to delivering training. Never seen this skill set. The way that you navigated the conversation and you pulled information out was at an expert level, and I did not expect that from you. And I want you to go home and think about this because you have something to lean into that is going to be great. And I left and I was like, What? I did not see that in myself at all. And it was one of those moments, and I have a few of select moments in my career where it was like that awareness wasn't there until someone shone that light on me. And that's what helped me go, okay, there are things that I'm not seeing in myself that other people are seeing that I need to lean into. And so it's this power of like when you see other people doing great things, tell them because it's so powerful and it helps people get to the things that they're meant to get to and actually just like thrive and lean into the things that they're great at. And we spend so much time talking about, yeah, but we could do X, Y, and Z and we could change this over here and change this over here. But when we have clarity on the things that we're really good at and we spend more time doing that, fear doesn't become the thing that stops us anymore because we start to continue to get that feedback that helps us build that confidence and move through it. Yeah, it's it's just a really positive tool there.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

And the best part about all that is it's free. I think like sometimes we want like this big gesture, these different things. And like big things are cool sometimes, but like you could pass somebody at the gym and just tell them they're doing a good job. Maybe they're tired, they don't want to be there, and they're like, oh, okay. You know, they pack up their step a little bit, like, I'm doing good, or you know, that phone call. It's a it's a quick phone call. Time and energy, I think, is worth a lot more, a lot of times, than gifts and other things. And I wish more people would, you know, hold the door open, which is free, or you know, pass a good message to somebody. Those those go a long way. They kind of change the the course of what you were working on. So without that phone call, you know, maybe you go on and do something else. Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 27:50

You don't know. And yeah, there's this the gift of presence and the gift of attention is like it, it's worth so much. It is part of the reason why I build communities into the work that I'm doing, because there's so many moments where I get inspired by what someone else does. And if I don't say that, then they're in their heads thinking the worst of what they're doing. You know, like there's been so many moments where I've reached out to a friend and said, Hey, when you said X, Y, and Z, that actually connected the dots for me over here. And man, I am so incredibly inspired by some of the steps that you had taken to put yourself out there and to do that. And they're going, Oh my gosh, I'm so scared. I can't believe I did that. Like, ah, and so it's this beautiful opportunity to start helping each other grow by just putting it out there and saying, Here's what I saw in you, and here's what I'm like taking from it that helps build us all up.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Oh, the inner monologue. One of my favorite books is uh Fierce Conversations by Susan Scott. And one of my favorite quotes is we're having conversations all the time, and sometimes they involve other people. And she's talking about the inner monologue. And unfortunately, during that chapter, she's talking about how it's generally negative, which is unfortunate that we do that to ourselves, but we never really think we're doing that good to ourselves. So it's awesome that someone else is able to reach out and and pick people up. Like I said earlier, you know, taking care of others. Natasha, I'm curious. Like, if we get into like gut feelings, we're in this fear section. How do you kind of separate, you know, real risk and like imagined fear? Sounds like a fine line. How do you kind of work through that?

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Yeah, I I mean, fear, are you gonna die? Fear are like, is your life at risk? That's real fear, you know. But there are certain things that we're programmed to have so that we don't run on the street and get hit by a car, right? Like, I'm not just going to put myself at risk where I know I'm really in danger, but the number of times that we're really in danger are not that many when we compare them to the mental blockages that we create internally for ourselves. And so there's there's fears around like not being included, there's fears around getting something wrong, there's fears around, you know, being emotionally vulnerable and feeling unsafe with all of that. And those are all the pieces that if we take the situation that we're in and we start following the thought process back to what the actual fear is that's stopping you, that is a telltale sign to decide. Okay, is this coming from something that I've learned in my past that I believed because that was my upbringing and I can choose differently? Or am I actually putting myself at risk and this is going to injure me, hurt me, do something that I don't want to participate in? So I, you know, helping

Fear As A Sign You’re Expanding

SPEAKER_00 31:08

to make that that decision, I think is the easiest way is following back the track thought process as to why you might not be making a decision about something, or why you are not participating in a certain thing, or why you are not taking a risk on something. What is the real belief behind that that you're holding on to? And does it come back to one of those big core ones that I talked about? Not feeling included, I'm scared. I that, you know, if I put myself out there and people see me for who I am, but that makes me really scared, well, that's not a real fear, right? That's that's what we've created for ourselves. Well, I fear that if I go and I do that, then three people are not gonna like me in my friend group. And if three people in my friend group don't like me, then I'm gonna feel like I'm alone. Well, that sucks. Right? But you're not at a true fear of something happening in your life. So really getting honest with yourself about where is it, where is it coming from?

SPEAKER_01 32:11

That's good. Yeah. I have uh 33 skydives under my belt. Uh, I got my mom on her 50th birthday to jump and she was completely freaked out, closed her eyes all the way down, was you know, terrified, and then we got down and then we had some dinner, she had some time to process, and she's like, I'd go again. I'm like, oh, okay. Via the pictures, I wouldn't have said that because those pictures are pretty hilarious. She looks terrified. Uh but it is funny. You get past that thing and you're like, oh, okay. I always thought it was funny. People give me a hard time for skydiving, but like on my way to the drop zone, I feel like I was closer to dying from people texting and driving or putting on makeup and almost swerving into me. So I'm like, of all the things, I mean, we do checks and double checks and buddy checks, and I mean, it is falling out of an airplane, but there's a system to it, and people are aware and want to be there and are doing the right things. People tried to hit me with 3,000-pound missiles on the way there in their in their car. So I don't know, that was kind of kind of funny. I guess it's a legit fear, though.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

So true, so true. And like, what is legit fear versus like what we've created fear? Like when you even describe we've got checks and balances and we've got like protect, like we've got backup parachutes, or we've got a system on if things were to go wrong, then we've got step A and step B and step C. Like you've got a methodology behind it already. I'm like, oh, okay, I feel like I could do that then. But if you were to say, Natasha, just jump out of a plane and you'll figure out how to do that, then suddenly my back gets up and I start going, oh my gosh, what's worst case scenario? So there is a piece there around like, what is it that I need to hear in order to feel safe that can help me to move through this? And the best way to tap into it, I talked about breath work, but really supporting your nervous system because when you, I don't know if you've been doing four box breathing, but that's typically one of the popular ones that is out there, where essentially you're inhaling for four seconds, holding your breath for four seconds, exhaling for four seconds, and holding for four seconds and doing that four times over. It really takes from your fight or flight response when you're under stress and pressure and regulates you so that you can, you can it supports your vagus nerve, which is your nerve that is like, oh my God, I'm I'm I don't know what to do and I gotta figure this out. And it calms you down and it says, okay, I okay, I feel safe now. What's the right move forward decision? Because when we're not feeling safe, we think about everything in the past. And when we're feeling safe, we can move ourselves forward.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

That's hilarious you mentioned that because I have told other people this and they thought I was crazy. So my first ever skydive, I was tandem. So I was attached to a guy. He had over a thousand jumps, he'd been doing it forever. I was sort of freaked out because they put a harness on you and you jump. But when I went through my first one, I was completely unattached. But I went through a four-hour ground course, I hung in a mock harness and we went through all the emergency procedures. They showed me pictures of what it was, and we went through it. So I knew if something happened, I could do it. But the first time, I was just like, you said I was pushed out of the plane, basically. And then the second time, even though I was completely unattached by myself on jump number one, I was like, I could do this. I sat for four hours, so that is pretty wild. Well, Natasha, your last pillar is teamwork and achieving goals. What makes a team actually work beyond just good intentions?

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Hmm. Definitely communication is my number one thing. I know I feel like that's such a basic thing to say, but it really is. Like you'd be surprised how many teams, if they just talked about things more, how much further ahead they'd be. And it brings up to the surface things like, oh, that person isn't being accountable or following through with the things they need to do. Oh, this person over here

Real Risk Versus Mind-Made Fear

SPEAKER_00 36:18

is just going off in their own direction and unsure of whether or not what they're doing is right. And then we've got another person who just personality-wise, they just don't get along. And so it's all of these things are symptoms to the bigger thing around not communicating and not connecting and not understanding each other. And so the biggest piece of advice that I do that I work with teams on, because a lot of them are all focused on we need to achieve this goal. We need to achieve this thing that we've we're working towards. If it's like a construction team, it's like a big, we need to finish this project. We need to get to a place where this is done well. And I need this team to start functioning like a high-performing team and not working together where they're not connecting or talking or working in different directions. And I so typically what happens is they they say, okay, so let's work on the goal. Let's get everyone excited about the goal, and then we'll work towards the goal. And if we do that, we bypass all these opportunities on let's just level set, like let's talk to each other about what's really important, what's really going on, what are your styles? Like, how do you work? How do you like to get work done? How where do you thrive the most? And what do you need when you're not doing something well or you are doing something well? How do you like to receive feedback? What does that actually look like? And so it's almost the basic foundational things that allow the team to communicate, build trust so that it makes it so easy when it's like, now let's talk about our goal. We all get each other, we know each other, we're we're good now. What are we working towards? And why is that important? And how does what each of us are doing right now connect to the goal that we're heading towards? And so often what happens way too often is we create these goals without involving anyone over here, and then expecting they're gonna be on board. And if they're not on board, then it's a performance issue and we need to deal with it. When it's like, no, they really just need some help on connecting back to what's really good for them, how it connects to the other people, how to talk about it. And now let's connect the docs to where we're going. And suddenly we create the structure around that. We create teen norms, we create things that are going to help them to continue to have conversations and support each other and talk through things when they're challenged. And it it just makes it easier. And so it's it's just one of those fundamental things that feels so basic, but a lot of people are not doing that and not making time for it.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I'm a planner by nature, so I plan exercises and do emergency management and different things for the hospital. And it's always funny. We do the hot wash or after action report or whatever term you want to call it. And the number one complaint every single time is uh communication wasn't very good. And that can be like physical, like radios didn't work, or like people just didn't understand what I needed them. I told them to report here and they reported to the back of the building or whatever, and now we're behind, and the response is bad. And so, yeah, it's just wild. Like you think it would be a very easy thing, but it's always super difficult. And it kind of makes me think of I did the outward mindset training, and they had a section that was really powerful to me was collusion, where like you start to treat other people the way to reinforce what you believe. So you have this thought and you're like, Well, I'm gonna do this, and then it just keeps it going. And you're like, well, they they hate me, so I'm gonna be mean to them, so they hate me. And then the other person's like, well, they're mean to me, so and then it just keeps it going. So have you seen a lot of that?

SPEAKER_00 40:15

I so uh the what makes me think of like from what you're saying, it makes me think of the internal stories that we have in our mind and the perceptions of other people based on the stories that we've created and we've reinforced over and over again. And so it's this it's this, okay, uh at what point am I willing to let go of the story and start coming to the table with an open mind, thinking positively about the situation or what's gonna happen. And they did this study. I mean, I know there's probably tons out there, but the study on teachers with children, and they put them into two groups and they said, These teachers, I want you to do an eye, they did an IQ test for all of them. And what they found out was like everyone was at uh pretty similar levels, but one group was, they were just nitpicking on everything that they were doing and giving them critical feedback on everything. And the other group, they were giving them positive reinforcement all the time. They were expecting like they were gonna outperform, they were

Team Communication That Builds Trust

SPEAKER_00 41:18

expecting they were gonna do really well. And of course, you can imagine what happens is the group that got the positive reinforcement, their IQ scores actually went up and the other group, their IQ scores actually went down. And so it is this like realization that if you spend the time expecting the worst of people, you are gonna get those results. You're gonna get even worse. And I'm not saying like just blatantly forget everything that they've done if they've like done something in the past, but giving them the benefit of the doubt and expecting that, okay, what am I gonna do that's different this time that's gonna help contribute to success going forward? I think is a really important mindset to do in order to get the results that you want to get.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I love the phrase, like if you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.

unknown 42:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

It's just crazy back to like it being free again, like telling someone they're doing a good job, that that's free. Like instead of just being critical, and if you're giving constructive feedback, I mean, that's different. We talked about, you know, not being against confrontation and things like that. But I mean, fine balance between just being critical or actually providing good feedback. Well, Natasha, I'd like to bring all three of your pillars together. So bringing it all together, how do self-awareness facing fear and strong teamwork combine to help people achieve goals they couldn't reach alone?

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Can you ask that question one more time?

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Of course. How do how does self-awareness facing fear and strong teamwork combine to help people achieve goals they couldn't reach by themselves?

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Okay. Self-awareness creates the how do I want to say this? Self-awareness gives you the like, okay, I know what's happening, and it gives you the opportunity to ask yourself the question, what's really going on here, and being honest with yourself. The awareness of what is going on helps you to support if you're in fear and what you need in order to move yourself forward. And when you're connecting the dots between what's what's going on, what you're triggered by, the fear that exists, and you can support yourself through that, and you can communicate it with others and share those experiences, it suddenly brings everyone together on a level playing field that helps everyone grow and move forward. So they're all very much connected to each other. And working with people in your community, in your like through mentorship, through coaching, through facilitation experts, leaning on the people who can bring that out for yourself is where I see the next level of work for a lot of people because we can't see all of it ourselves. And I go back to My experiences, my personal experiences, I went and I learned all of the best practices and all of the things that I should be telling other people to do. But until I started embodying it for myself and realizing what those connections were, I didn't actually get the opportunity to embody it and see it put in practice and having the influence that I wanted to have. So invest in those around you that are going to help bring all of that out and continue moving yourself forward and talking about it and creating that level playing field.

SPEAKER_01 44:56

That's awesome. I'm glad you had the epiphany and you know found your purpose. It's awesome. Natasha, this was powerful and practical. Thanks for bringing everyone this information. Before we wrap up, where can people connect with you and follow your work?

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Yeah, connect with me. My website is theleadershipcabin.com. I am on LinkedIn under Natasha Skolney, and I'm always happy to grab a virtual coffee.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Awesome. Well, thank you for coming out. To everyone listening, growth starts with you, but it never ends there. I love you all. See ya.